Accepting The Farang Status, And The Implications

[MacChine]

Guests? I don't expect guests to pay taxes

Besides if Thailand wants its citizens to have the option of living in foreign lands, it needs to reciprocate. I don't feel it is any kind of special privilege to hire 4 Thai employees in my business when I only really need 1.

Nor is the absurd 90 day report any way to treat a " guest". Nope I have no qualms about critisizing the cultural and political policies that keep a nation in a caste system, all quite deliberately.

Thais are very poorly educated people that allow millions of farang tramp thru their country annually. Ive got 99 problems but being called farang aint one.

I don't think they're poorly educated, but I think things are the way they are due to their wanting to be percieved as top-tier with other European FALANG countries, and America FALANGLAND. Developing too fast can have consequences. 'Gan bpen ciwilized' is something that many strive for. Cultural beliefs run deep here, and impressing others is something that can take high priority.

That doesn't go without saying that I've met some of the most beautiful, loving people here that I wouldn't think twice about helping out if the time came (well, just not financially ... ). Thailand's a great place, great weather. As posted in another reply, we're guests here, and I agree with that. Enjoy the weather and watch the fireworks light up the sky.

[MacChine]

.. It isn't the reference by physical attributes in 3rd party reference I object to , it's being referred to in a racially based slang term while I'm standing there.

When I go to the dentist in mexico, the receptionist dosn't inform the Doctor "the Gringo is here ." Why not? Because its rude and racist

Slang racist terms are rude, except when the charming, oh- so-, so smiling so ..polite can-- do no- bad Thais do it, apparently according to some of the posters here. . Please..... I know why this nation gets away with atrociously bad behavior, in everything from not investigating deaths properly to casual racism, I simply am not buying it-literally.

I dispair. How are you going to get farang food, see farang films, drink

farang beer? Ask for kuhn beer?

I am slowly learning the names of the people in the village and until I do they are 'Swiss lady', German lady neighbour', boss lady, drunk, Katoey, fatty, prostitute. And sometimes Farang when I really don't know how else to describe them.

Edited November 10, 2012 by MacChine

[kevvy]

i am a farang , in Australia we call people from asia Asians people from Ireland paddy English poms Americans yanks same all around the world

[Neeranam]

I am a Farang, and my Thai family calls me GREG all the time, which is an abbreviation of my real name. I must belong to a privileged class of Farangs in Thailand, I believe, after reading the post.

Uncounted times, i introduced myself as Khun Greg to newly met Thais, and they adressed me by this name from there on. It seems that when you make all efforts to act and behave like a Farang, Thais might be tempted to classify as a good example of this species.

You should NEVER introduce yourself as Khun ........

Khun is used when giving respect to someone - you can't do it to yourself - it sounds ridiculous.

I've even got two friends that say on their voice mail, "khun ****** here, please leave a message"

[poanoi]

I just introduce myself as Pi' niss

[Grumbles]

The Thai people you know may learn to not call you f-rang to your face anyway, but the more interesting question is what are they THINKING ...

I think the OP is basically right. We that are seen as f-rangs are targets of a thing called OTHERIZATION and it makes it much easier morally/ethically to treat such others in shabby ways and sometimes (not even rarely in my view), not even as real human beings with real human feelings.

Yes, you are correct.

What everyone is discussing is just the fact that no one is calling them farang to their face, however, they are missing the point.

You understand exactly what I mean

Personally I have too many other things to care about than what people are saying or thinking about me.

If I started worrying about trivialities like that I'd probably top myself.

How many times have you referred to someone back home as 'the Asian guy' or the Paki,the Indian, the Yank etc?

I think it's the Asian way of generalising about foreigners when they don't have the necessary vocabulary to say it any other way and in the Thai culture (like it or not) it's not always meant in a derogatory manner.

I am usually referred to by my name, but personally I don't care. Sometimes people have to remember that what's unacceptable or rude 'at home' is the norm here. For those that don't like it - you know where the airport is.

[cooked]

Ok , let me put it another way, children. You think that you are being called something equivalent to 'nigger'. (sorry all people of a different hue)

You aren't. You just don't like being a Farang. Even though that's what you are. Which leads me on to ask: did you actually realise that you were leaving your native country when you came here?

[MacChine]

Good grief, the third person usage isn't offensive, until it's used in your presence.

Do you call Asians, "Asian " when they are in the room with you? No, because it's rude.

Or even nationality... The Thai is in the room , rude.

So why do Thais use a racially based term constantly?

i am a farang , in Australia we call people from asia Asians people from Ireland paddy English poms Americans yanks same all around the world

[BigJohnnyBKK]

So why do Thais use a racially based term constantly?

Because they haven't been brainwashed to believe that it's rude. Using racial categorizations, calling old people old, fat people fat all of them are rude to us but not rude to them. Get over yourselves really!

If Martians came to live among us we'd feel OK calling them Martians. To many Thais we are as different from them as we would consider Martians.

And I for one am fine with that, if it's beyond their comprehension to imagine we're somehow the same as them, so be it, no problem, I have no desire to try to change the way the Thais think about the issue of race.

[bermondburi]

Why don't all you people with a problem with it start refering to all Thais as Asians if it bothers you that much.

Sent from my GT-P1000T using Thaivisa Connect App

[Grumbles]

The Thai people you know may learn to not call you f-rang to your face anyway, but the more interesting question is what are they THINKING ...

I think the OP is basically right. We that are seen as f-rangs are targets of a thing called OTHERIZATION and it makes it much easier morally/ethically to treat such others in shabby ways and sometimes (not even rarely in my view), not even as real human beings with real human feelings.

Yes, you are correct.

What everyone is discussing is just the fact that no one is calling them farang to their face, however, they are missing the point.

You understand exactly what I mean

Personally I have too many other things to care about than what people are saying or thinking about me.

If I started worrying about trivialities like that I'd probably top myself.

How many times have you referred to someone back home as 'the Asian guy' or the Paki,the Indian, the Yank etc?

I think it's the Asian way of generalising about foreigners when they don't have the necessary vocabulary to say it any other way and in the Thai culture (like it or not) it's not always meant in a derogatory manner.

I am usually referred to by my name, but personally I don't care. Sometimes people have to remember that what's unacceptable or rude 'at home' is the norm here. For those that don't like it - you know where the airport is.

So are you saying that it's ok to use the word Paki when talking about Pakistanis in the UK and if they don't like it they can go home?

If we are going to live here we need to fight for our rights and fight racism.

Exactly my point. I know Pakistanis that refer to themselves and each other as Paki's. It's all down to how sensitive people are. If someone is 'that' sensitive about things they should stay in a cloistered environment and not go out near people.

I consider myself intelligent to discern the difference between an insult and a general term.

Example: Take the word bastard, it has many different connotations, one person could call me a bastard and I'd laugh, use a different tone and they'd get a different response. Unless yuo have a perfect (native) grasp of the Thai language, how can you be 100% sure, what they are saying?

Edited November 10, 2012 by Grumbles

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'll keep saying it , use of a casual slang term denoting race in that person's presense is rude.

I also disagree.

If it's used intentionally in a rude tone of voice, then the intention and the tone are what's rude, not the fact that it's based on a racial characteristic.

At least here in Thailand, what might be rude in another place or culture isn't the issue here.

[bermondburi]

Heard Pakistanis refer to themselves as Pakis before.

Really? Do you find that strange, and if so, why?

Don't find it strange at all.

Sent from my GT-P1000T using Thaivisa Connect App

[poanoi]

I wouldnt even know what you were talking about when you say 'black',

had it not been for the fact that i've had americans around me for some years.

Why don't you just use the correct form: negro ?

[Jingthing]

I wouldnt even know what you were talking about when you say 'black',

had it not been for the fact that i've had americans around me for some years.

Why don't you just use the correct form: negro ?

Language and cultural norms evolve. Perhaps in other countries and languages, negro is still used. In the USA, it is now a totally unacceptable word to use. It's not really a slur word, just hopelessly dated and a person using it would appear ridiculous. The word when it is was widely used was often pronounced in a way by racists to blend with the well known "n word" slur word. Currently, the "PC" phrase is African American and black is also widely used and acceptable. Edited November 10, 2012 by Jingthing

[isawasnake]

I think you are taking it too seriously, and interpreting it wrong.

People just get in the habit of doing things. Some of them are "bad". If you went back in time when women could not vote, it would just be the common thought process, and I personally would not hold it against people if I had a time machine. Smoking in public is a current example of this, we all know it causes harm to others, yet we continue to let it happen... not because it is right, but because we have been conditioned this way.

I don't hold it against them. They are never going to change, which is another subject altogether (a much more serious one). They are just products of their surroundings, and to some extent, we all are I suppose.

[metisdead]

I thought the discussion was about accepting the farang status rather than discussion of racial slurs? A number of posts have been removed.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Well, some are claiming that any word in any language classifying people by ethnicity is by definition a slur.

Even with non-ethnic terms, if the group being classified starts to take it as a slur, then it becomes one, even if that isn't the intention of those using the term.

My points are that 1. there is no such intention and 2. that whole PC 'euphemism treadmill' process in western media-culture is a ridiculous one I think most of us would hate to see replicated here.

They are just products of their surroundings, and to some extent, we all are I suppose.

To a very very large extent.

The issue is first becoming aware of it, and even then very few desire to even try to separate the useful reality-based "truths" from the less helpful "prejudices".

Edited November 11, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[isawasnake]

I would think if the term farang were to not be used anymore it would necessitate a more strained relationship between the foreigners and Thais. It would kinda be like if Mexican dudes stopped calling their buds "cabron"; the integrity of the discourse would rise I suppose, yet the relationships between the parties would ineffably deteriorate.

[ayayay]

I would think if the term farang were to not be used anymore it would necessitate a more strained relationship between the foreigners and Thais.

Why would a person of color in the USA constantly need refer to himself as dark skinned, how would you justify the need for that?

And if avoiding to do so, It would somehow put more strain to the relationship between a white skinned american, and a dak skinned american?

Edited November 14, 2012 by ayayay

[isawasnake]

I would think if the term farang were to not be used anymore it would necessitate a more strained relationship between the foreigners and Thais.

Why would a person of color in the USA constantly need refer to himself as dark skinned, how would you justify the need for that?

And if avoiding to do so, It would somehow put more strain to the relationship between a white skinned american, and a dak skinned american?

To be honest, I feel like yo quoted the wrong person. I have no idea what on earth you are talking about.

[hookedondhamma]

Try to stop the issue of face. Try to stop the number of love songs on the radio. Try to stop the number of rapes, serious and comical, on thai soap operas. Try to stop the use of the word falang. Try not to give yourself an aneurism while doing it.

Thailand is thailand, and that will never change. Hats off to those who try, but you're probably better off just relaxing in the nice weather and indulging in delicious food.

No one is forcing anyone to 'accept' it, but at the same time no change is going to come via protesting it, either. The Chinese were an exception.

Other than that, the farang is second tier, regardless of whether one likes it or not.

Edited November 14, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Try to stop the issue of face. Try to stop the number of love songs on the radio. Try to stop the number of rapes, serious and comical, on thai soap operas. Try to stop the use of the word falang. Try not to give yourself an aneurism while doing it.

Thailand is thailand, and that will never change. Hats off to those who try, but you're probably better off just relaxing in the nice weather and indulging in delicious food.

No one is forcing anyone to 'accept' it, but at the same time no change is going to come via protesting it, either. The Chinese were an exception.

Very true all. Tell us more about the Chinese exception, did they actually organize to effect social change via a public confrontation at some point?

My understanding was they achieved change by hard work, smart business, and intermarriage over generations until they'd in effect taken over many of the power leverage points and in effect became an integral part of the elite.

Other than that, the farang is second tier, regardless of whether one likes it or not.

Don't lets flatter ourselves. Far from the bottom rung perhaps but my perception is that Japanese, Korean, capitalist Chinese, even wealthy Arabs have a higher default first-impression status than we honkies.

[ayayay]

I would think if the term farang were to not be used anymore it would necessitate a more strained relationship between the foreigners and Thais.

Why would a person of color in the USA constantly need refer to himself as dark skinned, how would you justify the need for that?

And if avoiding to do so, It would somehow put more strain to the relationship between a white skinned american, and a dak skinned american?

To be honest, I feel like yo quoted the wrong person. I have no idea what on earth you are talking about.

So please explain what you mean, if I misunderstood