Blocking Of Krabi Video Considered

[DiamondKing]

"The father was possibly furious due to a misunderstanding. He went on to say that the authorities would try to help the girl's father understand the situation in order to "rebuild the country's image"

Tourism Minister Chumphol Silapa-archa had said earlier that the incident could not be considered rape...

No comment necessary.

A lot of politician types say stupid stuff all over but all that matters is what the legal system says. I honestly don't know the facts of the case but assumed she was raped but what I am also guessing is she had been drinking and possibly invited/allowed the guy back to her place. Cases like this in the west are not always easy to prosecute and would be based a lot on credibility which means both his and her past being looked at. I have no idea what the injuries were in terms of her going to the hospital but obviously if we are talking injuries of struggle or being overpowered then the case should become much much easier but she may very well have gone to the hospital after sobering up worry she may have got some STD or impregnated. Any links to the actual crime and arrest being reported?

Nisa I'm not sure what you are getting at in your post - first you admit you know little about the case then suggest that she may have been drunk and invited/allowed the guy back to her place - does this somehow mean that he was justified in raping her (if he did), the assault alone is easy enough to investigate and prove, DNA may complete the picture - I'm not having a dig here but I don't see the worth in your above post.

The worrying fact is that this guy is out and about like a free man

Guys you need to look at the facts of the case she did not invite him back to her room he gave her a lift back to her hotel (where her boyfirend was) earlier he her boyfriend and her had dinner the boyfriend felt comfortable enough to go home early.

The accused offered a lift to her hotel close by

and when he started going the wrong way she protested and got off the bike, he beat the shit out of her and dragged her off the road and beat and raped her

He did a runner and was caught one month later where he was identified by the girl he confessed and DNA was matched so he was locked up after being locked up he retracted his confession and was released on bail pending trial.

NO doubt this scumbag raped and beat this poor girl

DK

Edited November 10, 2012 by DiamondKing

[Amras]

Nisa...what are you on about?

Firstly, we are talking about the Nations report.

In this report, people want to make a VIDEO responsible for cancellations of holiday- bookings.

Not alleged rape, murder, fraud, sams of all kinds, police that is not doing a proper job, traffic- laws being broken every second or the general feel of not-being safe in Thailand...but a video, that was made as a reaction to one of these things!

Block it, censor it (like so many things in Thailand) and the problem will vanish?

Just ignore the fear and insecurity?

Just ban a video and everything will be okay?

Secondly, a Tourism Minister of this great nation of Thailand (an official, political, public figure) says "they had dinner together, so you can't call it rape"! ...and seems to get along with it!

This is one of the most absurd, inhumane and bad things you could say about a rape victim! "She forced it, she wore a short dress!", "She forced it, she was flirting with me!", "It was her fault, we had dinner before!"

What the hell???

There is a "coincident" of a motorcycle accident, that happened close to the victims turning up at the hospital?!

And???

I bet, there is easily more than one accident like this, happening at one night in Ao Nang!

So therefore...let's say, we have 3 rapes and 6 accidents...chances are, there were actually no rapes?? All just pesky foreigner, trying to blame a heart-of-gold Thai-guy, for driving drunk and crashing???

Here is a hint: the doctor said, there were signs of rape!

So, I will make it easy for you: if a swollen eye and a split lip where signs of rape, Klitschko's opponents could all apply as rape- victims.

Of course I am only speculating, but SIGNS OF RAPE may include ripped tissue at the vagina and/or rectum? Signs of a struggle, like bruises on the neck? Otherwise, I would not really know, how to differenciate between rape- signs and the signs of an "ordinary" fight!

And one more thing: the first confesses, then denies...

One thing is for sure: there are very clear signs, that sex is not consensual, one is the word "NO"!

If I am trying to fondle a womans breasts and she says "No"...it is somehow a sign, that I should not do this, because she is not enjoying it!

If I try to <Snip!> her and she screams "NO" and struggles...there is another sure sign!

So as a man, I can be very certain and I can easily depict, if a raped a woman, or not!

There is no way, I am at the police-station and confess to rape but later make up my mind, and say "Oh no...I didn't rape her!...well...maybe a little! But it was only because we had dinner and she had a short skirt! Yes...she said NO, but we all know, it means YES, if you have dinner, first!"

Let's try again.as my reply was removed because of incorrectly replying (although the clearest way as I can't number the above. )..hopefully you can assume which parts apply to which text above.

1. Clearly an issue, but it is separate to the case of rape and the proceedings against the man in question. They are two different issues, although related by the story.

2. He is clearly a douche bag. There are also people who think the same in the west. Some people opinions are whacked.

3.you inferred a lot about the motorcycle accident. All it said was that rescue foundation workers took her to hospital and said she was in a motorcycle accident. Did they find her at the scene, or somewhere else, we don't know.

4.Signs of rape include the later (but would need the victim to tell them she was raped for them to look first). It wouldn't be done in a routine check after an alleged motorcycle accident.

5.Re-read the article...he said they had sex, but it was consensual. He never confessed to raping her. There is a difference. Where did you 'make up' what he said and assumed what he said. Read the original article. He agreed they had sex, but not to the rape. Similar confessions happen all around the world. That it was consensual and not rape. This is no different.

It still needs to be decided in a court if it was indeed rape, or not. These are never straight forward, we all weren't there, we cannot make assumptions on information we don't know.

He is still innocent until proven guilty, but you all seems to work the other way around...how democratic of you.

• 
  

Edited November 10, 2012 by Amras

[Amras]

"The father was possibly furious due to a misunderstanding. He went on to say that the authorities would try to help the girl's father understand the situation in order to "rebuild the country's image"

Tourism Minister Chumphol Silapa-archa had said earlier that the incident could not be considered rape...

No comment necessary.

A lot of politician types say stupid stuff all over but all that matters is what the legal system says. I honestly don't know the facts of the case but assumed she was raped but what I am also guessing is she had been drinking and possibly invited/allowed the guy back to her place. Cases like this in the west are not always easy to prosecute and would be based a lot on credibility which means both his and her past being looked at. I have no idea what the injuries were in terms of her going to the hospital but obviously if we are talking injuries of struggle or being overpowered then the case should become much much easier but she may very well have gone to the hospital after sobering up worry she may have got some STD or impregnated. Any links to the actual crime and arrest being reported?

Nisa I'm not sure what you are getting at in your post - first you admit you know little about the case then suggest that she may have been drunk and invited/allowed the guy back to her place - does this somehow mean that he was justified in raping her (if he did), the assault alone is easy enough to investigate and prove, DNA may complete the picture - I'm not having a dig here but I don't see the worth in your above post.

The worrying fact is that this guy is out and about like a free man

Guys you need to look at the facts of the case she did not invite him back to her room he gave her a lift back to her hotel (where her boyfirend was) earlier he her boyfriend and her had dinner the boyfriend felt comfortable enough to go home early.

The accused offered a lift to her hotel close by

and when he started going the wrong way she protested and got off the bike, he beat the shit out of her and dragged her off the road and beat and raped her

He did a runner and was caught one month later where he was identified by the girl he confessed and DNA was matched so he was locked up after being locked up he retracted his confession and was released on bail pending trial.

NO doubt this scumbag raped and beat this poor girl

DK

Where is this information that you have stated? Source?

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

[Thai at Heart]

Someone tell these idiots that posting a video rebuttal on YouTube only makes it worse please.

[Baerboxer]

I think that many Thai men don't believe there is such a thing as rape. The problem there is that most of these like minded thinkers are in the police force.

There are very different mindsets on rape. In the West a woman can say "no" at any point, and failure to respect that and continue is rape. Taking advantage of a woman who is drunk and therefore considered incapable of deciding "yes or no" is rape - as a Welsh footballer found out last year.

In certain Moslem countries, rape victims can be imprisoned for being raped and are often murdered by their families to purge the "shame of being raped".

In Thailand, from discussions I have with male and female Thais, the mindset seems fo be one of " if girl go alone with boy, she know what to expect". This is not seen as rape as we would see it. it's not just Thai men that think this, but women too. Women have to be much more on their guard here than in the West where they have high legal protection (which is sometimes abused).

I'm not trying to judge which mindset is right or wrong, just show that there are very different ways of looking at things sometimes. If you travel to a country other than yours, then you need to appreciate laws, behaviour and social norms are different.

[mikebell]

Is the daughter willing to come back to testify or is this a matter of they want justice done magically. Regretfully but unavoidably, you need to have victims relive their experience through testimony if you want prosecution ... even in his country.

From what I've seen it would probably be re-enacted with the alleged rapist taking part with a stupid grin.

It seems like it's the loss of income that's the main reason for this statement.

The only reason this is seeing the light of day is $$$$ money $$ money $$ money or the lack of it to some in this case

.

Mr Minister said"the incident could not be considered rape” Referring to a police report that said that they had had a meal together. This is an outrageous statement at best. What it is saying is that in Thailand, you can eat a meal with a lady, offer her a lift to her hotel and on the way brutally bash and rape her, and ho hum, it is OK. Outrageous.

​Lets Hope that the pressure holds people accountable. If every Thai Visa members wrote to a Krabi tourist operator and let them know their thoughts, action might come with the people being effected saying nail the bu$#@rd and give genuine justice.

I have just emailed; [email protected] and canceled my proposed family holiday with my two grown up daughters.

[metisdead]

A post containing profanity has been removed.

[mancub]

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

Yeah sure ...so you're implying that it was the boyfriend's fault then ? You and Nisa make a fine double-act !

Different people ? I know how a Thai man would administer perceived justice ...in a manner alot swifter and more painful than that eventually may be served by his country's court of Justice !

[bunuel]

Having written about tourism industries around the world, I find this performance by the Thai Tourism Minister truly flabbergasting. Tourists are unfortunately often crime victims, and there is a standard response for government officials: 1) Express sympathy with the victim and extend condolences to the victim's family; 2), Refrain from commenting on the legal proceedings, since it would be inappropriate to comment on an investigation in progress in the judiciary branch. In this case, the Tourism Minister has done neither. Instead, he has maligned the character of the victim, and made extraordinary pronouncements on the case while it is still on-going. As if that were not enough, he has declared he intends to begin a campaign to remove a music video by the victims's father from YouTube in Thailand - an action which will accomplish nothing except drawing even further attention to a very embarrassing case for the Thai Tourism industry, thus further tarnishing the Thai image. If the Minister's actions become a story in the Western media, which is entirely possible, he will have hit the jackpot for adverse publicity - the kind of adverse publicity that comes when a government tries to cover up a violent crime against a Western tourist. And once that happens, no amount of advertising can undo the damage done - only time. The Minister would have been well advised to say nothing - defending the indefensible is always a losing proposition. And he should know rape is a hot button topic in the Western world these days. As for the music video - well, the father is obviously known in Holland, and the music is pretty good, so I wonder if Google will agree to blocking it even here in Thailand. They do not block on demand, and this is just the kind of video they might want to fight about, leading to further adverse publicity. In my humble view, this Tourism Minister should be sacked before he does further damage to the Thailand brand.

[timewilltell]

Again I ask, as it seems people NEGLECT THIS SINGLE FACT.

WHERE does it say he has been found not guilty or acquitted of any charges against him? I have not seen, or read that anywhere.

As someone above me posted...the initial injuries were claimed as a motorbike accident...why wouldn't she have claimed someone just assaulted her.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. But none of us know the full story, only the small fragments in the media reports.

Or is everyone just outraged that a foreigner was attacked and that's it, no trial, no court, guilty.

According to the initial report, he did not plead guilty, rather he stated it was consensual and not rape.

See how facts get twisted.....................................

How about let the system do what it's supposed to do.......which seems like it was being done anyway.

The whole minister and tourism blocking thing, is a separate issue.

No we don't know all the facts do we? But I don't know of many people who would admit to a rape if they didn't do it and the perpetrator is said to admitted his rape, giving his excuses and then later changed his mind and said it was consentual. The mindset in this place is exposed wonderfully by the spokeman saying it can't be considered rape because she had dinner with the guy. It is beyond pathetic it is sickening.

The fact that people can defend what has been said is equally sickening. Yes everyone should be innocent until proven guilty (doesn't seem to be that way in dafamation cases for some reason maybe because it suits the ruling elite that way and makes it a more effective weapon for them but I move off point). If someone admits guilt then the balance turns against him. Yes there are cases where confessions are coerced but admission and later retracting everything as the scent you might get off because a foreigner is involved happens too many times here for that argument to hold much weight either - and why coerce a person to admit rape and hurt your country. I dont believe coercions are that widespread! And besides Thais are just not like that and hurting their country is the last thing they want to do because of the loss of face to themselves that would occur socially in the process. The only time that is acceptable is in the case where you stand to gain mightily financially - then you can commit treason by stealing money from the nations coffers through corruption and not lose a wink of sleep at the thought that you might be hurting the precious country. Give me a break Thais are all about loss of face; and their selfishness is astounding.

Time for so many changes here. The justice system needs to be rid of corruption and speeded up - a lot! Too much adjourn this adjourn that for the slightest reason. In cases involving foreigners there needs to be a special procedure because the victim cannot be expected to return to Thailand for every hearing at shoulder the travel costs involved in that. It is not acceptable to just let everyone off just because the person is not here anymore because anarchy will eventually result where people can assault and injure or murder tourists and just get away with it because the victim is either dead or cannot afford 20 return flights to Thailand while the courts pick their noses.

I don't have all the answers but there has to be a better way and the increasing criminality in this wonderful country has to be arrested before it gets out of control - it very nearly is in Phuket already - seems it's spreading.

Edited November 10, 2012 by timewilltell

[technologybytes]

NO doubt this scumbag raped and beat this poor girl

DK

DiamondKing you are a genius, without seeing any evidence or interviewing any witness you have decided that there is "No Doubt" that he's guilty of rape and beating the girl.

Well... who the hell needs a legal system when we have you? Why don't you sentence him as well...

[Thai at Heart]

Having written about tourism industries around the world, I find this performance by the Thai Tourism Minister truly flabbergasting. Tourists are unfortunately often crime victims, and there is a standard response for government officials: 1) Express sympathy with the victim and extend condolences to the victim's family; 2), Refrain from commenting on the legal proceedings, since it would be inappropriate to comment on an investigation in progress in the judiciary branch. In this case, the Tourism Minister has done neither. Instead, he has maligned the character of the victim, and made extraordinary pronouncements on the case while it is still on-going. As if that were not enough, he has declared he intends to begin a campaign to remove a music video by the victims's father from YouTube in Thailand - an action which will accomplish nothing except drawing even further attention to a very embarrassing case for the Thai Tourism industry, thus further tarnishing the Thai image. If the Minister's actions become a story in the Western media, which is entirely possible, he will have hit the jackpot for adverse publicity - the kind of adverse publicity that comes when a government tries to cover up a violent crime against a Western tourist. And once that happens, no amount of advertising can undo the damage done - only time. The Minister would have been well advised to say nothing - defending the indefensible is always a losing proposition. And he should know rape is a hot button topic in the Western world these days. As for the music video - well, the father is obviously known in Holland, and the music is pretty good, so I wonder if Google will agree to blocking it even here in Thailand. They do not block on demand, and this is just the kind of video they might want to fight about, leading to further adverse publicity. In my humble view, this Tourism Minister should be sacked before he does further damage to the Thailand brand.

Well, who said that pooyais know anything about anything. Then imagine diluting what little ability they had by one generation.

[DocN]

Nisa...what are you on about?

Firstly, we are talking about the Nations report.

In this report, people want to make a VIDEO responsible for cancellations of holiday- bookings.

Not alleged rape, murder, fraud, sams of all kinds, police that is not doing a proper job, traffic- laws being broken every second or the general feel of not-being safe in Thailand...but a video, that was made as a reaction to one of these things!

Block it, censor it (like so many things in Thailand) and the problem will vanish?

Just ignore the fear and insecurity?

Just ban a video and everything will be okay?

Secondly, a Tourism Minister of this great nation of Thailand (an official, political, public figure) says "they had dinner together, so you can't call it rape"! ...and seems to get along with it!

This is one of the most absurd, inhumane and bad things you could say about a rape victim! "She forced it, she wore a short dress!", "She forced it, she was flirting with me!", "It was her fault, we had dinner before!"

What the hell???

There is a "coincident" of a motorcycle accident, that happened close to the victims turning up at the hospital?!

And???

I bet, there is easily more than one accident like this, happening at one night in Ao Nang!

So therefore...let's say, we have 3 rapes and 6 accidents...chances are, there were actually no rapes?? All just pesky foreigner, trying to blame a heart-of-gold Thai-guy, for driving drunk and crashing???

Here is a hint: the doctor said, there were signs of rape!

So, I will make it easy for you: if a swollen eye and a split lip where signs of rape, Klitschko's opponents could all apply as rape- victims.

Of course I am only speculating, but SIGNS OF RAPE may include ripped tissue at the vagina and/or rectum? Signs of a struggle, like bruises on the neck? Otherwise, I would not really know, how to differenciate between rape- signs and the signs of an "ordinary" fight!

And one more thing: the first confesses, then denies...

One thing is for sure: there are very clear signs, that sex is not consensual, one is the word "NO"!

If I am trying to fondle a womans breasts and she says "No"...it is somehow a sign, that I should not do this, because she is not enjoying it!

If I try to <Snip!> her and she screams "NO" and struggles...there is another sure sign!

So as a man, I can be very certain and I can easily depict, if a raped a woman, or not!

There is no way, I am at the police-station and confess to rape but later make up my mind, and say "Oh no...I didn't rape her!...well...maybe a little! But it was only because we had dinner and she had a short skirt! Yes...she said NO, but we all know, it means YES, if you have dinner, first!"

Let's try again.as my reply was removed because of incorrectly replying (although the clearest way as I can't number the above. )..hopefully you can assume which parts apply to which text above.

1. Clearly an issue, but it is separate to the case of rape and the proceedings against the man in question. They are two different issues, although related by the story.

2. He is clearly a douche bag. There are also people who think the same in the west. Some people opinions are whacked.

3.you inferred a lot about the motorcycle accident. All it said was that rescue foundation workers took her to hospital and said she was in a motorcycle accident. Did they find her at the scene, or somewhere else, we don't know.

4.Signs of rape include the later (but would need the victim to tell them she was raped for them to look first). It wouldn't be done in a routine check after an alleged motorcycle accident.

5.Re-read the article...he said they had sex, but it was consensual. He never confessed to raping her. There is a difference. Where did you 'make up' what he said and assumed what he said. Read the original article. He agreed they had sex, but not to the rape. Similar confessions happen all around the world. That it was consensual and not rape. This is no different.

It still needs to be decided in a court if it was indeed rape, or not. These are never straight forward, we all weren't there, we cannot make assumptions on information we don't know.

He is still innocent until proven guilty, but you all seems to work the other way around...how democratic of you.

• 
  

Did you see my answer to your answer, before your answer and my answer were removed....or do I have to do it again?

[DocN]

I think that many Thai men don't believe there is such a thing as rape. The problem there is that most of these like minded thinkers are in the police force.

There are very different mindsets on rape. In the West a woman can say "no" at any point, and failure to respect that and continue is rape. Taking advantage of a woman who is drunk and therefore considered incapable of deciding "yes or no" is rape - as a Welsh footballer found out last year.

In certain Moslem countries, rape victims can be imprisoned for being raped and are often murdered by their families to purge the "shame of being raped".

In Thailand, from discussions I have with male and female Thais, the mindset seems fo be one of " if girl go alone with boy, she know what to expect". This is not seen as rape as we would see it. it's not just Thai men that think this, but women too. Women have to be much more on their guard here than in the West where they have high legal protection (which is sometimes abused).

I'm not trying to judge which mindset is right or wrong, just show that there are very different ways of looking at things sometimes. If you travel to a country other than yours, then you need to appreciate laws, behaviour and social norms are different.

Okay...even though I find that "mindset" a bit sickening, I can well accept it exists and is the way to do it , in this country...but what about the law?

[PoodMaiDai]

Yes, block in IN THAILAND so the Thais don't see it. Great plan. That should really help tourism.

Honestly, just when you think these people can not possibly get any dumber, along comes one of these clowns and raises the bar once again.

Also, so if a girl has dinner with a Thai man and then asks him to go to her room, it is not rape if he then forces sex upon her? Un-&lt;deleted&gt;-real. Only in this la-la land could someone say such a thing and believe it to be true. I personally hope the father comes here and cuts the balls off of the man who raped his daughter, and anyone who gets in his way.

[Amras]

Did you see my answer to your answer, before your answer and my answer were removed....or do I have to do it again?

No unfortunately I didn't sorry.

[PoodMaiDai]

NO doubt this scumbag raped and beat this poor girl

DK

DiamondKing you are a genius, without seeing any evidence or interviewing any witness you have decided that there is "No Doubt" that he's guilty of rape and beating the girl.

Well... who the hell needs a legal system when we have you? Why don't you sentence him as well...

The Thai guy admitted it!!!! He only later changed his story.

[technologybytes]

NO doubt this scumbag raped and beat this poor girl

DK

DiamondKing you are a genius, without seeing any evidence or interviewing any witness you have decided that there is "No Doubt" that he's guilty of rape and beating the girl.

Well... who the hell needs a legal system when we have you? Why don't you sentence him as well...

The Thai guy admitted it!!!! He only later changed his story.

Actually, I have not seen any reliable article that says he admitted to Rape.. I understand that he admitted to being there and having consensual sex... but really as far as I can tell he's fighting the case and it being treated by the court as a suspect who is "alleged" to have committed rape.

For all I know he may be guilty, but even the court accept that they don't yet know, hence he's on bail which considering the circumstances (ie that to the best of our knowledge he has no prior convictions, he turned himself in to police, and there is presumably no real reason to assume he won't attend court)

Let's await a verdict and see if he's guilty or not.

[Amras]

Again I ask, as it seems people NEGLECT THIS SINGLE FACT.

WHERE does it say he has been found not guilty or acquitted of any charges against him? I have not seen, or read that anywhere.

As someone above me posted...the initial injuries were claimed as a motorbike accident...why wouldn't she have claimed someone just assaulted her.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. But none of us know the full story, only the small fragments in the media reports.

Or is everyone just outraged that a foreigner was attacked and that's it, no trial, no court, guilty.

According to the initial report, he did not plead guilty, rather he stated it was consensual and not rape.

See how facts get twisted.....................................

How about let the system do what it's supposed to do.......which seems like it was being done anyway.

The whole minister and tourism blocking thing, is a separate issue.

No we don't know all the facts do we? But I don't know of many people who would admit to a rape if they didn't do it and the perpetrator is said to admitted his rape, giving his excuses and then later changed his mind and said it was consentual. The mindset in this place is exposed wonderfully by the spokeman saying it can't be considered rape because she had dinner with the guy. It is beyond pathetic it is sickening.

The fact that people can defend what has been said is equally sickening. Yes everyone should be innocent until proven guilty (doesn't seem to be that way in dafamation cases for some reason maybe because it suits the ruling elite that way and makes it a more effective weapon for them but I move off point). If someone admits guilt then the balance turns against him. Yes there are cases where confessions are coerced but admission and later retracting everything as the scent you might get off because a foreigner is involved happens too many times here for that argument to hold much weight either - and why coerce a person to admit rape and hurt your country. I dont believe coercions are that widespread! And besides Thais are just not like that and hurting their country is the last thing they want to do because of the loss of face to themselves that would occur socially in the process. The only time that is acceptable is in the case where you stand to gain mightily financially - then you can commit treason by stealing money from the nations coffers through corruption and not lose a wink of sleep at the thought that you might be hurting the precious country. Give me a break Thais are all about loss of face; and their selfishness is astounding.

Time for so many changes here. The justice system needs to be rid of corruption and speeded up - a lot! Too much adjourn this adjourn that for the slightest reason. In cases involving foreigners there needs to be a special procedure because the victim cannot be expected to return to Thailand for every hearing at shoulder the travel costs involved in that. It is not acceptable to just let everyone off just because the person is not here anymore because anarchy will eventually result where people can assault and injure or murder tourists and just get away with it because the victim is either dead or cannot afford 20 return flights to Thailand while the courts pick their noses.

I don't have all the answers but there has to be a better way and the increasing criminality in this wonderful country has to be arrested before it gets out of control - it very nearly is in Phuket already - seems it's spreading.

No we don't know all the facts. I still haven't seen the original source that says he admitted to the rape. Could you provide it? (I honestly want to see it, not being an arse). The spokesman is a douche bag, in any nationality or country (remember there are people in the west that think exactly the same as him as well, ie provocative dressing invites rape etc). These people are everywhere, it's not a Thai thing.

You also seems to forget one major issue...regardless of our ideals, or whether or not we think Thailand needs to improve, in what ever regard........this is not OUR country.

If the Thai's want to accept this as the universal being for growing up in Thailand (corrupt police (not all), corruption in the government, an average court and judicial system), that is honestly their prerogative. Because the truth is, most of us are not citizens so don't inherit the rights that come along with citizenship, no matter how backwards we believe many things are in Thailand.

Can you imagine say the Chinese moving to Australia or the US and saying, wow you guys have to much freedom of expression, that needs to be changed now! Regardless of who we think is right or wrong it is up to the people of that nation to effect change. Not the visitors to it. After all, we have a choice to come here and accept all risks associated with it. Want to be 'safe', stay home where you know your rights. (I'm being the devils advocate here, as people seem to be emotionally charged to think only one sided).

There are many cases of implied guilt, confessions or coercion's, likely here and definitely back home in the west. It happens for many reasons. Not saying this is the case here, but it does happen.

I don't believe any country has an express judicial proceedings for crimes against visitors or tourists. I haven't seen it as most people can be on trial with the witness in absentia, if circumstances are required. Don't forget it is a criminal act, not civil. So they are prosecuted with the prosecution being the state (not the victim).

Not that it justifies it, but this also happens around the world, not just in Thailand, like so many posters here give the impression. It is not an idealistic west, vs the barbaric Thailand. There were 85,000 recorded cases on rape in 2010 in the US, at 29 per 100,000 people (Thailand had 4500 with a ratio of 7 per 100,000), according to the UN. Obviously these stats are hard to relate to actual figures, but it gives an indication that as a westerner you are 4 times more likely to be rapped in the US than in Thailand (most non reported rapes in Thailand would be low income, regional areas and against Thai's etc etc).

My point is, too many people jump on the Thailand is evil bandwagon and any chance they can get, yet forget all this stuff happens back home, but goes un-reported in the media, or gets very little coverage. Or we selectively forget that this stuff also happens back home, because many come here with a superiority complex about how they can fix Thailand and how much better there 'enlightened' way of thinking is.

Everything is Thailand is just so transparent, to see the stuff that goes on in the west, you need to dig below the surface. Most people don't so think it's all peachy. That just isn't the case.

[zyphodb]

KRABI: -- It is possible to block from viewing in Thailand a YouTube video clip produced by the father of a Dutch girl who was reportedly raped in Krabi, permanent secretary of the Tourism and Sports Ministry Suwat Sitthilor said yesterday.

"The father was possibly furious due to a misunderstanding. He went on to say that the authorities would try to help the girl's father understand the situation in order to "rebuild the country's image"

Tourism Minister Chumphol Silapa-archa had said earlier that the incident could not be considered rape...

This story is clearly an attempt to deny the situation, while also the beginning of a smear campaign.

The father and family should be advised to bring strong legal action against this kind of dangerous claptrap, while the Dutch government should begin an equally robust action against the Thai government,and quickly.

[spectre324]

what kind of father lets his 19 year old daughter come to thailand? even with a friend who lets himself be dropped at the restraunt.? sounds like a bunch of naieve people to me!

[DocN]

Did you see my answer to your answer, before your answer and my answer were removed....or do I have to do it again?

No unfortunately I didn't sorry.

Well okay, let me see if I can get it together one more time!

Firstly, of course you are correct: the guy is innocent until proven otherwise (though I find it hard to believe, that he didn't rape her, according to many different story lines around!.

I highly doubt, with all the (partisan) pressure (Ministers, saying "c'mon guys...it wasn't really rape! They had dinner!"), there will be a fair trial!

And again: "signs of rape"!

But of course these stories all connect and are not to be held apart.

It is a good show of the mind set in Thailand.

The Thai-police and all tourism- involved authorities, never grow tired to tell everybody, that security and safety are their main concerns.

No, they are not!

Jet ski scams, taxi mafia but also the simple enforcement in traffic laws (something that would make me personallt feel A LOT safer!)...it just doesn't happen!

So now you have a rape- case (aside from all the other rapes, "suicides" of foreigners, scams, frauds etc), that made someone make a video and go viral...and what do the authorities do

They try to block and ban the video!

Out of sight, out of mind!

Do they REALLY beef up the protection for tourists, as they blabber at any given moment?

Hell now!

Instead, the kind of starting to blame the alleged victim, accuse the father of "not understanding" (that seems to be a favorite past time: telling Farang, they don't under-sa-tand) and try to get rid of the pesky video!

Kill the messenger!

[Amras]

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

Yeah sure ...so you're implying that it was the boyfriend's fault then ? You and Nisa make a fine double-act !

Different people ? I know how a Thai man would administer perceived justice ...in a manner alot swifter and more painful than that eventually may be served by his country's court of Justice !

Not blaming the boyfriend at all...I just have different thoughts on minimising risk in any situation. To me, leaving my gf alone with a stranger is too great a risk for me. Obviously he thought otherwise.

Nisa and I (from what I can assume), are just playing being impartial. There is enough emotionally charged hatred in this thread. Some level headedness is needed. There always needs a devils advocate and that's what we are doing.

Yes a low educated (or some even highly educated) would resort to violence. No different back home, where guys would want a punch on just for saying hi to their gf, even if you didn't know.

There is always a low intelligence level (emotional) in every population. Thai's are no different and neither are we and where we come from.

I still feel safer here than anytime back home. As I know here I actually need to pi** a Thai off to get into trouble (always exceptions). Back home, just look at someone the wrong way and you could find yourself in trouble if they feel the need to show some 'machoism/man hood' which is less prevalent here. The girls here are more scary than the men.

[Amras]

Did you see my answer to your answer, before your answer and my answer were removed....or do I have to do it again?

No unfortunately I didn't sorry.

Well okay, let me see if I can get it together one more time!

Firstly, of course you are correct: the guy is innocent until proven otherwise (though I find it hard to believe, that he didn't rape her, according to many different story lines around!.

I highly doubt, with all the (partisan) pressure (Ministers, saying "c'mon guys...it wasn't really rape! They had dinner!"), there will be a fair trial!

And again: "signs of rape"!

But of course these stories all connect and are not to be held apart.

It is a good show of the mind set in Thailand.

The Thai-police and all tourism- involved authorities, never grow tired to tell everybody, that security and safety are their main concerns.

No, they are not!

Jet ski scams, taxi mafia but also the simple enforcement in traffic laws (something that would make me personallt feel A LOT safer!)...it just doesn't happen!

So now you have a rape- case (aside from all the other rapes, "suicides" of foreigners, scams, frauds etc), that made someone make a video and go viral...and what do the authorities do

They try to block and ban the video!

Out of sight, out of mind!

Do they REALLY beef up the protection for tourists, as they blabber at any given moment?

Hell now!

Instead, the kind of starting to blame the alleged victim, accuse the father of "not understanding" (that seems to be a favorite past time: telling Farang, they don't under-sa-tand) and try to get rid of the pesky video!

Kill the messenger!

But it doens't matter if we find it hard to believe, he may very well be guilty. But If we hold to our western ideals, he should still be treated as innocent until proven guilty. OR is it a case of we only apply our 'better western society and laws' where it serves our purpose. Can't pick and choose what we want. Go with a democratic process and believe in it, or do it the Thai way* (for some) and enact vengeance. It's one or the other.

It's the mindset of a select group of people, those in power, who we all know do what servers their own interests. It does not necessarily represent the other 80-90% of the general population, who are probably feed up with it as well, but have no idea how to combat it or illicit change.

It is also one politician who made these statements not the whole of Thailand. And as I said, he is an absolute horrible individual.

They want to block it not because of the damage to the tourists, but because they know Thai's are sick of it as well. They can't control tourists, but they can control what is seen by the general Thai public. This happens in the west, but it's much more difficult to see. Everything is just so blatantly obvious here.

[samthefish]

This guy might achieve, through his actions, better justice for his daughter but he isn't go to do anything to hurt Thailand in tourism .. might even help increase it just like the Tsunami ultimately did. Although their numbers are decreasing there are still lots of farangs attracted to Thailand who want to get away with crimes (especially ones involving sex) they can't as easily get away with back home. As for blocking it in Thailand ... what would be the purpose except as some pissing contest with the dad. Not like people here are going to pack up and leave because they heard of another alleged crime being handled badly in Thailand.

ARE YOU SERIOUS??

REALLY??

GET HELP!

[mancub]

If she was my girlfriend I wouldn't have left her alone...with people you barely know....but different people I guess.

Yeah sure ...so you're implying that it was the boyfriend's fault then ? You and Nisa make a fine double-act !

Different people ? I know how a Thai man would administer perceived justice ...in a manner alot swifter and more painful than that eventually may be served by his country's court of Justice !

Not blaming the boyfriend at all...I just have different thoughts on minimising risk in any situation. To me, leaving my gf alone with a stranger is too great a risk for me. Obviously he thought otherwise.

Nisa and I (from what I can assume), are just playing being impartial. There is enough emotionally charged hatred in this thread. Some level headedness is needed. There always needs a devils advocate and that's what we are doing.

Yes a low educated (or some even highly educated) would resort to violence. No different back home, where guys would want a punch on just for saying hi to their gf, even if you didn't know.

There is always a low intelligence level (emotional) in every population. Thai's are no different and neither are we and where we come from.

I still feel safer here than anytime back home. As I know here I actually need to pi** a Thai off to get into trouble (always exceptions). Back home, just look at someone the wrong way and you could find yourself in trouble if they feel the need to show some 'machoism/man hood' which is less prevalent here. The girls here are more scary than the men.

Please don't keep referring/or comparing to things " back in the West " . We ,especially those of us who actually live in Krabi are not concerned with any kind of those relative statistics . We are concerned with the growing instances of violence that are occurring here and the relative reluctance /inability of the Authorities here to demonstrate an ability to handle it in a manner that inspires any confidence .

Whilst I appreciate that you claim to be playing Devil's advocate to offset the bias shown by the majority of posters , you should also understand that such bias often stems from personal experience with said Authorities ! It is not Thai -bashing for the sake of it ...

If you peruse the Krabi forum ,you will find 3 recent current threads relating to this similar theme .

On a lighter note...."Back Home " for you sounds like one hellish place !

[DocN]

what kind of father lets his 19 year old daughter come to thailand? even with a friend who lets himself be dropped at the restraunt.? sounds like a bunch of naieve people to me!

Yeah right...and maybe she was wearing one of them skimpy dresses too!

What the hell? She is 19...an adult and maybe she met someone at the restaurant and he was having a headache.

That gives her the "right" to get raped???

[DocN]

Did you see my answer to your answer, before your answer and my answer were removed....or do I have to do it again?

No unfortunately I didn't sorry.

Well okay, let me see if I can get it together one more time!

Firstly, of course you are correct: the guy is innocent until proven otherwise (though I find it hard to believe, that he didn't rape her, according to many different story lines around!.

I highly doubt, with all the (partisan) pressure (Ministers, saying "c'mon guys...it wasn't really rape! They had dinner!"), there will be a fair trial!

And again: "signs of rape"!

But of course these stories all connect and are not to be held apart.

It is a good show of the mind set in Thailand.

The Thai-police and all tourism- involved authorities, never grow tired to tell everybody, that security and safety are their main concerns.

No, they are not!

Jet ski scams, taxi mafia but also the simple enforcement in traffic laws (something that would make me personallt feel A LOT safer!)...it just doesn't happen!

So now you have a rape- case (aside from all the other rapes, "suicides" of foreigners, scams, frauds etc), that made someone make a video and go viral...and what do the authorities do

They try to block and ban the video!

Out of sight, out of mind!

Do they REALLY beef up the protection for tourists, as they blabber at any given moment?

Hell now!

Instead, the kind of starting to blame the alleged victim, accuse the father of "not understanding" (that seems to be a favorite past time: telling Farang, they don't under-sa-tand) and try to get rid of the pesky video!

Kill the messenger!

But it doens't matter if we find it hard to believe, he may very well be guilty. But If we hold to our western ideals, he should still be treated as innocent until proven guilty. OR is it a case of we only apply our 'better western society and laws' where it serves our purpose. Can't pick and choose what we want. Go with a democratic process and believe in it, or do it the Thai way* (for some) and enact vengeance. It's one or the other.

It's the mindset of a select group of people, those in power, who we all know do what servers their own interests. It does not necessarily represent the other 80-90% of the general population, who are probably feed up with it as well, but have no idea how to combat it or illicit change.

It is also one politician who made these statements not the whole of Thailand. And as I said, he is an absolute horrible individual.

They want to block it not because of the damage to the tourists, but because they know Thai's are sick of it as well. They can't control tourists, but they can control what is seen by the general Thai public. This happens in the west, but it's much more difficult to see. Everything is just so blatantly obvious here.

I dont understand, what you are saying with the last paragraph....

[JulesMad]

Lets turn things around, OK?

YOU(=farang) have dinner with THAI lady, and rape her afterwards....

WHAT would happen?

1. Thai lady is BG -----> you WILL have problems with police, but that will go away with the right amount of money to police and BG

2. Thai lady is well connected -----> very doubtfull you will get away with it (even with money!)

3. Thai lady is Prime Minister -------> you die for sure

Do I need to say more????

[Amras]

Please don't keep referring/or comparing to things " back in the West " . We ,especially those of us who actually live in Krabi are not concerned with any kind of those relative statistics . We are concerned with the growing instances of violence that are occurring here and the relative reluctance /inability of the Authorities here to demonstrate an ability to handle it in a manner that inspires any confidence .

Whilst I appreciate that you claim to be playing Devil's advocate to offset the bias shown by the majority of posters , you should also understand that such bias often stems from personal experience with said Authorities ! It is not Thai -bashing for the sake of it ...

If you peruse the Krabi forum ,you will find 3 recent current threads relating to this similar theme .

On a lighter note...."Back Home " for you sounds like one hellish place !

It's just Melbourne. But violence at night, especially alcohol related violence is increasing.

I understand if you live there and you rightfully can say something. But many in this thread don't live in Krabi (presumably) and hence the bandwagon. And yes I understand your thoughts/opinions from experience, but it seems it is more sever in areas on Thailand, rather than Thailand as a whole (degree of severity).

It's such a shame as next year was planning to spend some time in Krabi as well (extended time). It does seem to be an issue with Krabi and hopefully can be sorted out.