12 Foreign Tourists Arrested On "visa Run"

[scotsman]

i think the whole thing is stupid cuz u go there and you know how long your going to stay. why in the world would u ever overstay in the first place unless your retarded and change your ticket without thinking. then any reasonable person would get an extention or do the visa run a week or weeks before it expires. maybe people would take the law more serous if they chaged the over stay fine from 200 baht a day to 2000 baht a day. or just chage that whole thing...throw all the people who get caught in the airport in jail. just doesnt seem like this should ever happen. and its your own fault if it does. they really cant complain about it. and gesh...if they did ask for 5000 baht to get let off....hel_l yea id take it. you just got caught breaking the law....take the easy way out even if you gotta have then take ya down to the atm.... better then missing your flight and havin to pay 30000 baht for another ticket.

Many years ago I was at the airport wating to check in and my visa was going to expire at 12-00am and my flight was at 2-30am. I was at the check in desk at 10-45pm and i was in a long que of people at about 11-15pm there was only 5 people in front of me and my bad luck on this day the computers went down. I finnaly checked in and went to the imagration at 12-20am i was given a overstay stamp but no fine, but if they had your rules I would be in jail for a 20 mins overstay due to a computer fault. I have never overstayed again and the law they have now is correct but it should be a little more humain and let people pay there fines if its only a day or two overstay without putting you in jail.

[zzap]

The departure is indicated by the time and date your flight leaves, not the time you show up at the immigration desk.

And: I would have thought passengers of a bus heading to the border with no other stops along the journey, stopped a few miles before the border crossing, could safely be assumed as leaving the country, just as anybody showing up at the airport?

What they should concern themselves with are the people who are found staying without visa, not those who are on their way out to correct their mistake.

[Axel]

Guess, it is more efficient to check a bus-load than to ask every farang on the street:

"Hey you, passport".

[zzap]

Well, following this logic, it would be even more efficient to place a police officer at each border point, just to check passports and arrest all on overstay before they'll reach the safety of the immigration booth...

Noone would escape without proper punishment, backpackers and other irresponsible folks taking the piss of Thailand's laws and mocking all us morally upstanding and law-abiding TV-members.

[quiggs]

Who tipped off the tourist police that the company was assisting illegal aliens into Burma. Could it be one of the other "visa run" companies?? I have done one organised visa run before deciding not to put my life in the hands of some he11 bent speed freak.The first thing they made clear was that they would not accept overstays on board because of the hold ups at immigration. Maybe some companies are a bit pizzed off with the hold ups this company are creating with overstayers and decided to put an end to it themselves. Just a thought.

nice conspiracy theory, but if you've ever been through a police checkpoint on Thailand roads, they pull over every vehicle that matches the "target de jeur"... in this case, bus or van loads of people, particularly if they are foreigners onboard.

"Who tipped off the tourist police that the company was assisting illegal aliens into Burma. Could it be one of the other "visa run" companies??"

Bingo! In around Phuket....the word regarding this story..this is considered fact, not theory. Seems very few in this thread picked up on this.

[pritchkg]

I agree with old croc. I was in Thailand for 36 days over Christmas. I booked late so only had a 30 day visa. I went to Pattaya Immigration for advice and they told me I could pay an overstay fine when I left but if anything happened during those 6 days I would be treated as an illegal alien. Told them I didnt want break the law and risk getting arrested so they told me to apply for an extension. It cost 1900 baht but I got a 2 week extension and could relax for the rest of my holiday. In my opinion the 1900 baht was well worth the peace of mind it gave me. Therefore if you are overstaying you are taking a risk and YOU must accept that and not blame the Thai police for enforcing the law.

[tracer0]

Yes This over stay thing is getting very tight. Let me tell you a story. I went to C M immigration August 2005 for my 7th annual year Visa. All the usual, money in Bank, marry papers all like clock work now. I had to return 4 weeks later for a stamp, no visa from Bkk. I then Return 4 more weeks later, still no year visa from Bkk. Finnally, I got the year visa 4 months after the original application. But heres the pisser!!!!!!! As I had gone every 4 weeks, I didnt think to do the 90 day show your self stuff. So When I finnaly did, I was 110 days over stay! potentially, prision, at least 25K baht fine. But I showed my passport to the boss, and it clearely showed I had indeed gone every 4 weeks. I was lucky, They liked my face, they fined me 1000baht.

So dont over stay for any reason,even a genuine mistake can prove costly.

I thought I read on these posts last year they were going to stop the Visa runs?

Best regards Pip

Question: I live here now 20 years.. Normally I stam every 3 months except when I have a year visum in as it ends every month up in immigration. Nov 8 I submitted the application, just heard its ok. So whats the stage on this 3 months stamp as my last one was in August... They SAW me after that with my passport and stamped so doesn this (in theory) pose a problem? I asked in Phuket immigration and was told. no problem...

Well, following this logic, it would be even more efficient to place a police officer at each border point, just to check passports and arrest all on overstay before they'll reach the safety of the immigration booth...

Noone would escape without proper punishment, backpackers and other irresponsible folks taking the piss of Thailand's laws and mocking all us morally upstanding and law-abiding TV-members.

They pick them up where there are not a lot of other farangs about so clearly border area is safe....

BTW, anon99, there is no 90 days tourist visa, it's 60 days with a possible 30 days extension at an immigration office. Please inform yourself before advising others on legalities.

ok, lets clear this up.

A visum is that big sticker in the passport and immigration n has NOTHING to do with that. Its up to embassy/Consul to give one and they can al,ost do what the want.

If they give a singly entry 90 days they can. Means you have 90 days to go into Thailand and have the right to stay 2 months with a possible month extension.

If you get a double entry you can after 3 months, ie before entry exist stam expires, leave Thailand and return, obviously before final date of validity on visum to enter expires. WATCH those dates as validity of entry is likely after a few exits less then of entry staqmp so if you go to late, no visum....

ALL you get at the border is entry/exit stamps.

[solo siam]

Many years ago I was at the airport wating to check in and my visa was going to expire at 12-00am and my flight was at 2-30am. I was at the check in desk at 10-45pm and i was in a long que of people at about 11-15pm there was only 5 people in front of me and my bad luck on this day the computers went down. I finnaly checked in and went to the imagration at 12-20am i was given a overstay stamp but no fine, but if they had your rules I would be in jail for a 20 mins overstay due to a computer fault. I have never overstayed again and the law they have now is correct but it should be a little more humain and let people pay there fines if its only a day or two overstay without putting you in jail.

Its a nice story, but I was of the belief that you get an automatic extra 24 hours at the airport to deal with delayed flights etc..

Also these people werent at immigration getting a stamp, thats the whole point - Immigration had nothing to do with it, They were arrested by the police - The police found them to be illegally in the country when they stopped the bus. I could perhaps understand 1 maybe 2 people having overstayed their visas by accident, but 12.

[Axel]

Think of visa and 90-days reporting as two different shops. The one has nothing to do with the other.

Your visa, or better said, your permission to stay might run for 30 days, 90 days, 1 year or whatever.

Before that permission ends, one has to apply for extgention.

The reporting of your stay must be done if you stay longer than 90 days inside the country. After that every 90 days. If you leave and retgurn the 90 days' count starts from your last entry, NOT from your visa-induced permissions to stay.

[rexall]

Feel free to come down and throw bananas at me in the cage if it ever happens. As I don't consider this a minor administrative infraction, odds are low . . .

I would love to throw bananas at you in the monkey house, but I am unlikely to ever find myself there either. I have been here 8 years and only ever had one over-stay, and that was during the first year. . . and that was out of stupidity, not a desire to flaunt the law. I am too much of a coward to ever want to go up against the bureaucracy, especially the police. However, I don't feel it is necessary to be smug toward others who get into difficulty. Human beans are notoriously fallible creatures. The people who got arrested hardly need to be reminded (especially in a snide, self-righteous way that often passes for "advice" on this board) that what they did was careless.

You don't consider it a minor administrative infraction, and obviously the imo cops don't either. However, it IS a minor administrative infraction by any reasonable standards. Where is the crime? Who is the victim? Where is the loss of life? Loss or damage to property? Reckless endangerment? Fraud? Threat to national security? Even if every single foreigner in LOS routinely over-stayed a week or so, exactly who or what would that harm? How would that effect Thailand in any way at all except increasing revenue from overstay fines?

It's a minor infraction, and nothing more. If the imo cops chose to make a bid deal out of it, everyone had better take heed, but in doing so they are not winning my vote of confidence or my respect. I don't suppose, however, they are losing any sleep over my respect, so there you go.

Aloha,

Rex

Edited February 11, 2006 by rexall

[Petra]

In australia if you overstay your visa you get locked up for years.

There was 1 case were we locked up a overstayer for more then 10 years

Strange. Why would the Australian government want to feed, house, clothe, and provide health care for a non-citizen? Why not just deport him/her? Certainly less expensive

[saeb]

[quote name='Petra' date='2006-02-12 02:52:07' post='641435']

In australia if you overstay your visa you get locked up for years.

There was 1 case were we locked up a overstayer for more then 10 years

Strange. Why would the Australian government want to feed, house, clothe, and provide health care for a non-citizen? Why not just deport him/her? Certainly less expensive

Up here in the frozen North,(UK) the overstayers are taken to the local jail until such time as deportation. And (really this the local nickname), Craigie is pretty awful to look at from the outside.

They can stay there for for as long as it takes and in the case of the U.K. - this can take time.

Lots of time.

Things in LOS sure have changed these days - used to be it was fairly commonplace to meet folks who'd overstayed for years and didn't really worry about it.

I once had a girlfriend who whilst creating all bloody hel_l at a police station because I'd thrown her out, (gambling), kept telling the duty officer that I was 10 days over.

He couldn't care less. Threatened to put her in the monkey house for being a pain in the ar..

Don't forget - it's LOS -there will be an agenda here someplace.

Wait until a family get stiffed because one of their kids was sick and the family couldn't leave the country..................Think money ; Its always money.

[Krub]

Overstaying is done willingly.

We all get a stamp and 'up to date' in the passport.

LOS police is know to treat all on a case by case.

This time they were 'unlucky' as the police is being very strict.

Good lesson for all of us.

[Maejo Man]

On a recent VISA run in Nong Kai. It was interesting to see three girls hand over 100bt to the officer at the window. They had jumped in front of me( no surprise..Thai). He told them to place the money in the basket with all the arrival forms. When they did and it landed on top. He was quick to point out to them, no, no place it on the bottom.

Hey it's only 100bt I know. But corruption is absolute in Thailand. No matter where you go or what you do. Someone always has their hand out.

So anyone that says this could not happen in such a pretty country needs to stop facing the ocean and turn around to face Thailand. Thailand is white and pure as a tourist and black as coal to someone living here.

[Carmine6]

On a recent VISA run in Nong Kai. It was interesting to see three girls hand over 100bt to the officer at the window. They had jumped in front of me( no surprise..Thai). He told them to place the money in the basket with all the arrival forms. When they did and it landed on top. He was quick to point out to them, no, no place it on the bottom.

Hey it's only 100bt I know. But corruption is absolute in Thailand. No matter where you go or what you do. Someone always has their hand out.

So anyone that says this could not happen in such a pretty country needs to stop facing the ocean and turn around to face Thailand. Thailand is white and pure as a tourist and black as coal to someone living here.

Where I live there's not a lot of corruption, but the trade off is I pay outrageous income taxes and sales taxes. I'm not old enough to make the jump, but I'd trade the bureacracy here for a small bit of corruption there.

[StateSix]

There are laws in every country that are not routinely enforced as there are other priorities. However, now and then there is a crackdown and those caught get punished in accordance with the law. In this instance the police are fully aware that the visa run buses usually contain some overstayers but they have other priorities and view this as low level, probably due to the fact that the people are on their way to leave the country. If immigration advise the local police that the number of overstayers is increasing to silly levels, then they may feel that something needs to be done to show that this is not acceptable. Whilst immigration could deal with it at the border, it may have been decided that it was better for the police to do it on the highway.

While I feel sorry for those caught, as they were unlucky to be caught in the crackdown, they had broke the law. The stamps in their passport clearly state when they need to leave the country, and ignorance is no defence under the law.

Generally every police officer is allowed to use his/her discretion when dealing with an alleged crime. Most police officers will use the attitude test, when deciding on the best course of action. It is certainly possible in this case that the police were looking for a bribe when dealing with this incident, and it was refused and people got stroppy with them. From some of the quotes I could certainly imagine that this happened. The police then think, right, stuff you lot, you're all getting nicked. I am not saying it is right in this instance, but getting stroppy with the police when you have broken a law is not a sensible option and will almost certainly lead to you getting done for the offence.

The good thing about this incident is that it may highlight the fact that, while you may get away with a simple fine for overstaying without being arrested, this is at the immigration officers discretion. The actual law says you can be arrested and deported as well. If it makes people think twice and leave on time, then the police have done a good thing.

[The Coder]

I think the police have done the right thing here to cut the crap. Overstayers routinely breaking the law habitually has reached silly levels as the percentage of overstayers on this bus and others shows. I would wager the number of overstayers at all locations in the near future is going to be a lot lower due to this one single crackdown.

Over the years I have been on buses numerous times around border areas that have been stopped and people checked out. These are regular Thai buses, not border run buses and not necessarily headed for a border at all. The one that sticks out is at one stoppage sitting across from me a Laos national girl was caught illegally being in Thailand. I found it strange she left her bag behind on the bus as police took her away. I found it stranger the bus waited. Strangest of all she returned after an alleged 200 baht fine and we were on our way. Hmm...

[rexall]

In this instance the police are fully aware that the visa run buses usually contain some overstayers . . .

Yes, full of nasty, evil, over-stayers . . . who just happened to be on their way to the authorities to turn themselves in, pay their fine and thereby come under legal compliance.

. . . If immigration advise the local police that the number of overstayers is increasing to silly levels . . .

Just what are these "silly" levels you are referring to? And just what nasty things are these horrible people doing during the 24 hours overstay that they were not doing 24 hours earlier?

There is no measurable burden inflicted upon Thailand for overstays, especially the few days that these poor people got arrested for. It just pisses the cops off because the choose to interpret it as a direct insult and then react in a draconian way.

. . . and ignorance is no defense under the law.

Oh, pleeeeze! This is almost as profound as "The law is the law!" Like to see how noble and sanguine you feel when it happens to you!

Aloha,

Rex

[LindsayBKK]

Som Nam Na!

What the f*** is that ? Pathetic attempt to make a point in English speaking forum using thai phrase as sort of latin words of wisdom ?

Poshol ty na huy, dolboyob!

Well that was a good comeback mate! This is a forum about Thailand. Thai & English accepted Mate! If you "mai kow jai" you do not have to reply or comment.

ere

[Noel]

In this instance the police are fully aware that the visa run buses usually contain some overstayers . . .

Yes, full of nasty, evil, over-stayers . . . who just happened to be on their way to the authorities to turn themselves in, pay their fine and thereby come under legal compliance.

. . . If immigration advise the local police that the number of overstayers is increasing to silly levels . . .

Just what are these "silly" levels you are referring to? And just what nasty things are these horrible people doing during the 24 hours overstay that they were not doing 24 hours earlier?

There is no measurable burden inflicted upon Thailand for overstays, especially the few days that these poor people got arrested for. It just pisses the cops off because the choose to interpret it as a direct insult and then react in a draconian way.

. . . and ignorance is no defense under the law.

Oh, pleeeeze! This is almost as profound as "The law is the law!" Like to see how noble and sanguine you feel when it happens to you!

Aloha,

Rex

You seem to have a problem with the law Rex.

The law is the law, whether you agree with it or not.

If you do not like the laws of Thailand, may I suggest you find a country where their laws suit you?

Whining away like a disgruntled old woman serves no purpose whatsoever.

[Donz]

some of you just complain too much, If they accepted the bribe you will complain, if they go by the book then you complain.

I cant believe some of you think the penalty is harsh?? you overstay in australia you get locked up for years and sometimes over a decade without even being charged.

[rexall]

You seem to have a problem with the law Rex.

The law is the law, whether you agree with it or not. If you do not like the laws of Thailand, may I suggest you find a country where their laws suit you? Whining away like a disgruntled old woman serves no purpose whatsoever.

Not at all. I have a problem with self-righteous people spewing platitudes ("The Law is the law!", etc.) that sound compelling, yet when examined have little or no meaning. Nothing more that an attempt to blow smoke up people's ass.

And apparently you feel that hackneyed old horse poop cliche "Love it or leave it" has meaning. Are you saying that you agree 100% with all the laws in Thailand 100% of the time? I have lived and worked in five Asian countries, plus Hawaii which is culturally distinct. In all of those places, as well as as several more I have visited, including the U.S., I have never been anyplace where that I liked everything about the country, the culture, the people, the laws and what have you. No place has even begun to come close to that. I guess I should just go live on the Moon, right?

No sir, I have no problem with "The Law." I selectively have problems with stupid laws. Are you saying that you don't have problems with stupid laws? If so, I'm worried about you! Stay away from that cool aid, man, even if a nice policeman tells you to drink it! More than those poor guys who got arrested on the bus, I feel sorry for the self-appointed authorities on this forum who are in fact imprisoned by their own rigid mind set and approach to life.

My advise is a heaping bowl of bran, tall glass of prune juice and a good night's sleep! Y'all will feel a lot more relaxed and tolerant in the morning!

Aloha,

Rex

some of you just complain too much . . .

Yeah! And some of you peple complain too much that other people compain too much !!!

Aloha,

Rex

Edited February 12, 2006 by rexall

[scotsman]

Many years ago I was at the airport wating to check in and my visa was going to expire at 12-00am and my flight was at 2-30am. I was at the check in desk at 10-45pm and i was in a long que of people at about 11-15pm there was only 5 people in front of me and my bad luck on this day the computers went down. I finnaly checked in and went to the imagration at 12-20am i was given a overstay stamp but no fine, but if they had your rules I would be in jail for a 20 mins overstay due to a computer fault. I have never overstayed again and the law they have now is correct but it should be a little more humain and let people pay there fines if its only a day or two overstay without putting you in jail.

Its a nice story, but I was of the belief that you get an automatic extra 24 hours at the airport to deal with delayed flights etc..

Also these people werent at immigration getting a stamp, thats the whole point - Immigration had nothing to do with it, They were arrested by the police - The police found them to be illegally in the country when they stopped the bus. I could perhaps understand 1 maybe 2 people having overstayed their visas by accident, but 12.

There is no extra 24 hours if you overstay its a overstay stamp but you dont have to pay a fine for the first day. I would have been safe if there was not a computer fault as my visa did not run out until 12-00am. I thought I had plenty of time to check in and be through immigration before 12-00am Just my s@#t luck. I was just trying to say that if the law was changed like this other poster wanted I would have been in jail for overstaying 20 min. I just dont think the punishment for overstaying 1 day should be so severe and circumstances like trying to renew your visa on a visa run should be taken into consideration. I do agree with some posters that this was a scam that went wrong but the lessons to be learned from this is not at any cost overstay its not worth all the trouble.

[StateSix]

In this instance the police are fully aware that the visa run buses usually contain some overstayers . . .

Yes, full of nasty, evil, over-stayers . . . who just happened to be on their way to the authorities to turn themselves in, pay their fine and thereby come under legal compliance.

. . . If immigration advise the local police that the number of overstayers is increasing to silly levels . . .

Just what are these "silly" levels you are referring to? And just what nasty things are these horrible people doing during the 24 hours overstay that they were not doing 24 hours earlier?

There is no measurable burden inflicted upon Thailand for overstays, especially the few days that these poor people got arrested for. It just pisses the cops off because the choose to interpret it as a direct insult and then react in a draconian way.

. . . and ignorance is no defense under the law.

Oh, pleeeeze! This is almost as profound as "The law is the law!" Like to see how noble and sanguine you feel when it happens to you!

Aloha,

Rex

I did not say they were nasty or evil, and I did say later I felt sorry for them as they were unlucky to get caught up in it and made an example of.

Silly levels are what the immigration or police deem to be unacceptable. Again I made no judgment on the actions of those arrested, and whether they were 'horrible, or doing anything 'nasty'.

Ignorance is no defence under the law may be cheesy but it is true. The point I was trying to make was that it was clearly stated in their passport when they should leave. Whilst it may be harsh that they have been busted they cannot claim they were unaware and so the law does not apply.

[britainmal]

This is quite interesting because it happened to me before(Well, I did not overstay, but I forgot to carry my passport with me at the time.), but I did not have to go to jail just pay a 1500 baht whiskey money fine. He orginally wanted me to pay 3000, but I worked him down. What is the actually law in this case? I have tried to found out the law, but nobody in the Thai Police actually knows the law. The question is did the Thai Police follow the law? What is the legal process?

[sierra01]

What is needed is for the Police/Immigration to use a bit of common sense, and we all know how good the Thai are at that.

[Terminator]

i for one thing cannot understand why i would go on organised tours if papers were not in order!

there are so many easy ways to get to the border in a low key low profile manner.

for example a friend of mine went via train to buttersworth, at the border gave his passport, kept his mouth shut and they did not even pick-up his overstay, guess not many go there for a visa run!

and the airport is easy, just pay fly-out and come back a few days later, and why not get a type 'b' visa, you can stay for 15 months making just 4 trips!

oh, and i for one after 20 years, have never been asked for my passport once, but then am more than happy to take the government bus and not being target on a farang tour bus.

i for one thing cannot understand why i would go on organised tours if papers were not in order!

its not rocket science really as there are so many easy ways to get to the border in a low key low profile manner.

for example a friend of mine went via train to buttersworth, at the border gave his passport, kept his mouth shut and they did not even pick-up his overstay, guess not many go there for a visa run!

and the airport is easy, just pay fly-out and come back a few days later, and why not get a type 'b' visa, you can stay for 15 months making just 4 trips!

oh, and i for one after 20 years, have never been asked for my passport once, but then again i am more than happy to take the government bus and not being target on a farang tour bus.

[rexall]

I did not say they were nasty or evil . . .

Of course you didn't. I was deliberately exaggerating to make a point. However, those sort of hostile judgments are evident in the emotional tone of many of the posts here. Ironic as many falang come to places such as Thailand to escape from the rigidity of thought that exists in their home cultures.

Aloha,

Rex

[rishi]

Those overstayers - for obvious reasons - haven't mentioned a word in this thread... And none of those who has, know the slightest of the moral habitus of the overstayers.... And all that I know is, they are humans...

The ones, who have uttered extreme rightousness - the obey-the-LAW-or-die-guys- in this thread, are the ones whose mental habitus I'll question the most.

[The Dude]

The Dude says "CYA", cover thy backside. We are all in this foreign land and the best thing to do is cover all bases.