12 Foreign Tourists Arrested On "visa Run"

[Sunny Valentine]

Contrary to what some people may think I am most happy that this incident has ended without the deportation. Nor do I advocate different punishment for different people. And if this has opened the window on that so much the better (the fact that we have had this lively discussion may have had a positive effect). And that would not have been possible without people taking both sides. But I can and will not take a position in a public forum that could lead persons to get into trouble. And unless/until there is a formal change I will not be advising anyone to overstay.

I believe this was what others were trying to get across also. Don't take a chance or you may pay the price.

Fully agreed on the coda.

Problem is that double pricing in Thailand seems to be multi-facetted.

Another problem we#re facing is the quality of information on these topics is nowhere (including Immigration, Embassies, Police) as correct and accurate as in thaivisa.

Sunny

[thaiprivateeye]

One point which should be made is that while these 12 are now free and were not deported and blacklisted, it took media notice and pressure from their embassies to arrive at this happy result. An overstayed traveller who is alone and bound for a remote border post will not likely enjoy this sort of assistance if apprehended.

Let's keep in mind, despite our insular tendencies, that this minor incident did not rise to the level of an international controversy which will have wide-ranging effects on Thai police practices. The local police will still be more than happy to lock you up if they discover that you are out of status.

Edited February 15, 2006 by thaiprivateeye

[thaipro_pattaya]

You don't break the law in your own country, so don't break it abroad. SIMPLE !

[Donz]

who keeks deleting my posts

[sriracha john]

who keeks deleting my posts

the good cops... the sanity police....

they are trying desperately to make you appear more sane than you are... and that's a GOOD thing... you should appreciate them.

Edited February 15, 2006 by sriracha john

[david96]

According to section 37 of the Immigration act it would appear that every time you move to another province you have to report your place of stay to the local police. I am sure that this is not done very often by tourists or anyone else.

What is the opinion of other TVmembers?

[Noel]

According to section 37 of the Immigration act it would appear that every time you move to another province you have to report your place of stay to the local police. I am sure that this is not done very often by tourists or anyone else.

What is the opinion of other TVmembers?

Are you asking if it is OK to knowingly ignore the law?

Although a totally different subject, I think this thread suggests it can be not too smart a move...

[david96]

According to section 37 of the Immigration act it would appear that every time you move to another province you have to report your place of stay to the local police. I am sure that this is not done very often by tourists or anyone else.

What is the opinion of other TVmembers?

Are you asking if it is OK to knowingly ignore the law?

Although a totally different subject, I think this thread suggests it can be not too smart a move...

Section 38 appears to cover this, the housemaster or owner of the place where you are living is responsible to report to the police. A tourist may stay in a number of provinces for a few days only

in a 30/60 day period. but does the tourist have to report in person?

[elkangorito]

There are still the 'red necked' contol freaks, declaring that the 'law is the law' (any fool can recite this) & still the reasonable people are asking the 'red necks' to explain the law. From what I have seen, no explanation has been given. But I do think that the best explanation was given by maestro, who was one of the very rare & fortunate individuals to be able to access the Immigration website (I still can't do this).

As for tourists coming to Thailand, how the hel_l are they going to get correct & accurate information about this obviously oblique law? Will they just need to access the Thai Immigration Website that cannot be accessed or will they consult any number of the bloodlusting control freaks who insist on saying redundant things like 'the law is the law'. How can they get the required information? Please, can some control freak help with this?

I've just reviewed my passport. The reason that I overstayed once was because the stamp was;

1) Placed on top of another stamp.

2) The hand writing was illegible.

3) It took a Thai policeman friend to point this out to me.

By the time he pointed this out to me, I was more than 3 days overstayed. He informed me that I should immediately go to the nearest immigration office and PAY AN OVERSTAY FINE!.

OOPS!!!! Isn't that a kick in the bum for all the "the law is the law" freaks!

Can someone tell me whom to believe? Can someone tell the tourists whom to believe?

BTW, previous posters have stated that the 'overstayers' were going to get a "free" visa renewal. Where the <deleted>*ck does this happen? Not in Thailand...not in any country.

There is no longer any aguement about this. It's clear that the Thai Immigration law is NOT clear or readily available. Until such times as passports are stamped legibly & Thai Immigration law is not ambiguous, any over-stayers are NOT GUILTY!!!!!!!!!

Edited February 15, 2006 by elkangorito

[elkangorito]

Just a quick one to the Aussies that may be here. Here is a website where Chopper Read does the weather forecast...very funny.

http://aftergrogblog.blogs.com/agb/2005/12/chopper.html

somewhere on the web page, you will find the below message;

Download the movie here (WMV / 6 Meg). If you are stupid and haven't already taken my subtle <deleted>*kin' hint, there's the odd colourful word. Or two.

[Thai Chi]

There are still the 'red necked' contol freaks, declaring that the 'law is the law' (any fool can recite this) & still the reasonable people are asking the 'red necks' to explain the law. From what I have seen, no explanation has been given. But I do think that the best explanation was given by maestro, who was one of the very rare & fortunate individuals to be able to access the Immigration website (I still can't do this).

As for tourists coming to Thailand, how the hel_l are they going to get correct & accurate information about this obviously oblique law? Will they just need to access the Thai Immigration Website that cannot be accessed or will they consult any number of the bloodlusting control freaks who insist on saying redundant things like 'the law is the law'. How can they get the required information? Please, can some control freak help with this?

I've just reviewed my passport. The reason that I overstayed once was because the stamp was;

1) Placed on top of another stamp.

2) The hand writing was illegible.

3) It took a Thai policeman friend to point this out to me.

By the time he pointed this out to me, I was more than 3 days overstayed. He informed me that I should immediately go to the nearest immigration office and PAY AN OVERSTAY FINE!.

OOPS!!!! Isn't that a kick in the bum for all the "the law is the law" freaks!

Can someone tell me whom to believe? Can someone tell the tourists whom to believe?

BTW, previous posters have stated that the 'overstayers' were going to get a "free" visa renewal. Where the <deleted>*ck does this happen? Not in Thailand...not in any country.

There is no longer any aguement about this. It's clear that the Thai Immigration law is NOT clear or readily available. Until such times as passports are stamped legibly & Thai Immigration law is not ambiguous, any over-stayers are NOT GUILTY!!!!!!!!!

What handwriting are you talking about elkangorito?

When one gets "stamped" in by Thai Immigration, its exactly that. A STAMP (in english)

So how the hel_l could the "hand writing be illegible."

If your "Thai Police friend" can read the english stamp in your passport better than you can, I can understand why you overstayed 3 days.

Pity he didn't put you in the slammer so you could enjoy another aspect of "overstay"

[Maestro]

Immigration Web Site

I would urge everyone to please take the time to click on the above and read the large red print (I don't know how it could be made any clearer):

Can't load the site after several attempts.

Strange that you can’t load that page of the Immigration office at Aranyaprathet; it loads without problem on my PC, both with Firefox and Internet explorer. I have now made a PDF file of that page and attach it, for your information.

---------------

Maestro

Aranyaprathet_Immigration.pdf

[Jiu-Jitsu]

"Maybe the KlugScheisse will realise why these forums, especially this one, exist."

Nein, nein, Lopburi is extremely helpful most of the time.

You seem to be quoting another poster in that first line but I cannot figure out whom.

Anyway, I am glad to see that you, or whoever, takes an interest in the German language and therefore – and for no other reason – I would like to mention that the word – an interesting word, that – is correctly spelt Klugscheisser (both singular and plural. Don’t know if for a female it would be Klugscheisserin; I guess so, and politically correct the plural, if referring to such persons of both or unknown sexes, would be “Klugscheisserinnen und Klugscheisser”. A lot of clever shit piling up there! )

---------------

Maestro

I'm sticking with 'KlugScheiße'.

[Maestro]

There is no longer any aguement about this. It's clear that the Thai Immigration law is NOT clear or readily available.

I don’t see why it should be necessary for a tourist travelling to Thailand to have access to, and read, the Thai immigration law. (In fact, reading its English translation on the Immigration Bureau’s web site can make one quite dizzy)

When I fly to the USA and some other countries, I get a stamp on arrival – no visa required – that does not tell me until what date I am permitted to stay but I am sure that this stamp does not allow me to stay indefinitely.

In Thailand, at least, I get the “admitted until...” date stamped in my passport, accompanied by an English text. That’s really all I need to know how long I am allowed to stay in Thailand. If I were in doubt about anything, the logical thing for me to do would be, before my departure, to ask the Thai consulate or visit its web site, if it has any, or after my arrival in Thailand to ask at an Immigration Office.

Before I started reading thaivisa.com a few months ago and learnt about the Thai immigration law and the overstay problem some people have, I had entered Thailand 62 times (yes, I counted it) on various types of visas and without visa, and not even once was I in doubt about how long I was permitted to stay.

And before someone comes and reminds me of the wrong advice given by some Immigration officials to overstaying tourists (“just go on a border run tomorrow”), this is not the real issue. That “admitted until...” stamp is crystal clear and any reasonably intelligent tourist having any doubt would go and ask Immigration before that date, not afterwards. I am not saying “that’s the law”; I am saying “that’s the stamp in your passport”.

Or has anyone come across a post where a tourist reported that he went to Immigration BEFORE the expiration of his permitted stay to ask what he should do if he overstays and was told “no problem, go ahead and overstay and just do a border run when you are on overstay”?

---------------

Maestro

[zzap]

Yes, there is a post like this in this thread, was it Thaipauly?

It is the obvious thing to do, go to immigration and ask if, how and for how long you can extend your stay, and the answer may well be that you can simply pay a fine when you leave, if it's only a day or two.

[Sunny Valentine]

When one gets "stamped" in by Thai Immigration, its exactly that. A STAMP (in english)

So how the hel_l could the "hand writing be illegible."

Just checked my passport, have 9 stamps "admitted" right now. 6 of them with stamped date (one of them smeared, rather unreadable, unless you know what you are supposed t oread), and three with handwritten date, two of them with a good handwriting, one definitely not!

Get a life!

Sunny

[Maestro]

Yes, there is a post like this in this thread, was it Thaipauly?

It is the obvious thing to do, go to immigration and ask if, how and for how long you can extend your stay, and the answer may well be that you can simply pay a fine when you leave, if it's only a day or two.

You are right, Zzap, now I remember reading that. A poster did go to Immigration before the expiration of his permitted stay, wanted to apply for an extension and was advised to simply overstay those 2 days and pay a fine upon departure. That advice was definitely wrong and should not have been given, and I doubt that it is official Immigration policy. Perhaps the official meant to be kind and help the tourist save some money, but it was wrong. That official needs re-education.

It should certainly not be necessary that a tourist has to know the regulations better than the immigration official and that he has to insist on doing the correct thing.

---------------

Maestro

I'm sticking with 'KlugScheiße'.

Yes, if you want to do it right. But it will still have to be “Klugscheißer”, I’m afraid. (Now, I am the Klugscheißer, aren’t I?)

---------------

Maestro

[Maestro]

I've just reviewed my passport. The reason that I overstayed once was because the stamp was;

1) Placed on top of another stamp.

2) The hand writing was illegible.

3) It took a Thai policeman friend to point this out to me.

By the time he pointed this out to me, I was more than 3 days overstayed. He informed me that I should immediately go to the nearest immigration office and PAY AN OVERSTAY FINE!.

Elkangorito, if you have access to a scanner and if it is not too much trouble, could you scan that stamp and post it here, just so that everybody can see it and will stop knocking you.

And I apologise to you for my “crystal clear”, as it obviously does not apply to that particular stamp in your passport.

---------------

Maestro

[Sunny Valentine]

Just spoke to a british guy who came to my bar (Pattaya) tonight. He told me his stamp expired on the 13th, and his return flight leaves on the 22nd. He was not aware of him being in a illegal situation. I suggested he should go to Immigration tomorrow, and try to pay a fine as well apply for an extension.

Hope I see him tomorrow night, with a report that everything went all right.

And no, he isn#t the scum some are talking about. He is a genuine tourist, coming to Pattaya once or twice a Year since some Years, usually for 3 weeks. This time it was five weeks, but he wasn#t aware of any problems.

Sunny

[scotsman]

... Then its a lesson we should all learn from dont overstay and if you have made a mistake then go to the border by other means as its not safe in a visa bus.

All vehicles travelling on main roads towards borderpoints are checked routinely, but police have been rather lenient, i.e. not interested in a few days overstay, since the guys were obviously on their way to correct this situation.

The question is, does this incident signal a new policy (police, not immigration) or is it an exceptional occurence, i.e. we do not know the politics and motivation behind this, do we?

I agree that vehicles are stopped on the roads to the border points as I go with my car but they never ask for my passport just my driving licence. I am happy the 12 people are out of prison. The immigration law is not easy to understand for some people, there was one time I had to get an extension and been told by immigration to go on overstay as it would only be 1 day as they are too lazy to give you an extension at that time. I did not want to take the risk of overstaying getting stopped before you get to the airport so i asked for an extension and I finally got one. If the stamp on your passport is not very clear you should take it to immigration so they can fix it for you. We all make mistakes sometime in our life but when you end up in jail like the 12 people in ranong did then it makes you think twice. just hope it does not happen again to another 12 or more tourists. They should all try and find this web site as tv gives you some very good addvice. Not to overstay your permission to stay and dont listen to immigration officer if he tells you too.

[bluebear]

Just spoke to a british guy who came to my bar (Pattaya) tonight. He told me his stamp expired on the 13th, and his return flight leaves on the 22nd. He was not aware of him being in a illegal situation. I suggested he should go to Immigration tomorrow, and try to pay a fine as well apply for an extension.

Hope I see him tomorrow night, with a report that everything went all right.

And no, he isn#t the scum some are talking about. He is a genuine tourist, coming to Pattaya once or twice a Year since some Years, usually for 3 weeks. This time it was five weeks, but he wasn#t aware of any problems.

Sunny

Well is that case he really has no excuse. He really is a stupid ######. He has been a regular visitor and HAS NEVER read the visa regulations? How does he know he doesnt need a visa? Presumeably at some point he must have read a guide book or travel brochure which will all say he can stay for 30 days without a "proper visa".

[Thai Chi]

When one gets "stamped" in by Thai Immigration, its exactly that. A STAMP (in english)

So how the hel_l could the "hand writing be illegible."

Just checked my passport, have 9 stamps "admitted" right now. 6 of them with stamped date [b](one of them smeared, rather unreadable,[/b] unless you know what you are supposed t oread), and three with handwritten date, two of them with a good handwriting, one definitely not!

Get a life!

Sunny

Thats probably where you dribbled on it sunshine

[StateSix]

I cannot believe that this thread is still going with the same old arguments. However I will extend it by one more post

The way I see it, there is no problem with the law itself. Every country has a right to set a time limit on how long visitors stay.

To some, the proscribed penalty under the law is a little harsh - deportation. No ifs and no buts. Whilst I believe that this is a fair penalty in certain circumstances, it clearly isn't in cases of accidental overstay. That is why police officers and immigration officials etc are usually allowed to apply discretion. However even if the officers do not apply discretion, the courts should be able to recognise deliberate overstays against genuine mistakes and apply a fair penalty.

The main problem here seems to be that Immigration officers are giving out wrong advice. There is no way that an Immigration officer should be advising anyone to overstay. If an overstayer goes into Immigration they should NOT be sent on their way and told to go on a visa run in the morning. A short extension (at a small cost) should be given with a clear explanation that failing to leave the country within the period of the extension will leave you open to arrest and deportation. If it is clearly explained at this point there can be no excuses for overstaying again due to ignorance or an oversight. Overstaying due to genuine medical reasons, which are accompanied by a doctors certificate, should be acceptable to Immigration and no penalty applied.

The biggest problem of all though is that it is generally accepted that overstaying a few days is no big problem and can be dealt with by paying a fine. The good thing to come from this incident is that it has raised awareness of what can easily happen. For those people who overstay because they are lazy, have better things to do or are simply poorly prepared, this incident may give them the incentive not to.

And before I get attacked and called a 'redneck', I do believe that the 12 involved were very unlucky to be caught up in this incident and were unfairly treated. I believe that the police handled the situation badly also. I must add though that this if from reading what has been posted here and in the press. There may be other reasons, which we are not aware of.

It has been said before, and I will say it again - If at all possible DO NOT OVERSTAY!!

[Noel]

Just spoke to a british guy who came to my bar (Pattaya) tonight. He told me his stamp expired on the 13th, and his return flight leaves on the 22nd. He was not aware of him being in a illegal situation.

Sunny

So what did he think the date stamp signified?

He is clearly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier it would seem...

[Sunny Valentine]

Just spoke to a british guy who came to my bar (Pattaya) tonight. He told me his stamp expired on the 13th, and his return flight leaves on the 22nd. He was not aware of him being in a illegal situation.

Sunny

So what did he think the date stamp signified?

He is clearly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier it would seem...

Well, what can I say? That he is british? That I agree with you? Won't change his attitude, I guess. And I sure believe there are hundreds and thousands of foreign visitors like him around in Thailand any given day. People who don't read web boards. People who don't even bother to look at little stamps in their passports. People who like to spend quality time in their holidays, without discussing matters like visa classes, permission to stay versus visa validity periods, the benefits of B over O visas for applying for a work permit, and on and on and on.

They came here the first time maybe 10 Years ago, probably with an inclusive tour. Then they made the next trip on their own. Probably made a little check, and learned thy do not need a visa. Then come again, and again. Never ever had any problem.

This is not a very stupid behaviour. This is a very natural and normal behaviour, I guess the majority of tourists here do it the same way. They never consider to live here, or work, or become a resident. They just love to spend their holiday here. And some times this takes 10 days or 2 weeks, and once in a while they can extend this for over 4, maybe 5 or six weeks.

I believe the majority of countries that allow EU citizens a visit without a Visa, they allow them up to 3 month stay. (BAsed on personal experience this includes Malaysia, Turkey, South Africa, Mauritius, Mexico, and the states in the carribian I visited.)

Sunny

[Old Croc]

Just spoke to a british guy who came to my bar (Pattaya) tonight. He told me his stamp expired on the 13th, and his return flight leaves on the 22nd. He was not aware of him being in a illegal situation.

Sunny

So what did he think the date stamp signified?

He is clearly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier it would seem...

Well, what can I say? That he is british? That I agree with you? Won't change his attitude, I guess. And I sure believe there are hundreds and thousands of foreign visitors like him around in Thailand any given day. People who don't read web boards. People who don't even bother to look at little stamps in their passports. People who like to spend quality time in their holidays, without discussing matters like visa classes, permission to stay versus visa validity periods, the benefits of B over O visas for applying for a work permit, and on and on and on. And there are thousands of people like him around the world residing in Immigration detention centres

They came here the first time maybe 10 Years ago, probably with an inclusive tour. Then they made the next trip on their own. Probably made a little check, and learned thy do not need a visa. Then come again, and again. Never ever had any problem.

This is not a very stupid behaviour. Yes it is!

This is a very natural and normal behaviour, I guess the majority of tourists here do it the same way. No it's not and no they don't!

They never consider to live here, or work, or become a resident. They just love to spend their holiday here. And some times this takes 10 days or 2 weeks, and once in a while they can extend this for over 4, maybe 5 or six weeks.

I believe the majority of countries that allow EU citizens a visit without a Visa, they allow them up to 3 month stay. (BAsed on personal experience this includes Malaysia, Turkey, South Africa, Mauritius, Mexico, and the states in the carribian I visited.) Assuming you have some god given right to ignore sovereign countries immigration laws because you are European is arrogant, stupid behaviour!

Sunny

[Sunny Valentine]

Just spoke to a british guy who came to my bar (Pattaya) tonight. He told me his stamp expired on the 13th, and his return flight leaves on the 22nd. He was not aware of him being in a illegal situation.

Sunny

So what did he think the date stamp signified?

He is clearly not the brightest bulb in the chandelier it would seem...

Well, what can I say? That he is british? That I agree with you? Won't change his attitude, I guess. And I sure believe there are hundreds and thousands of foreign visitors like him around in Thailand any given day. People who don't read web boards. People who don't even bother to look at little stamps in their passports. People who like to spend quality time in their holidays, without discussing matters like visa classes, permission to stay versus visa validity periods, the benefits of B over O visas for applying for a work permit, and on and on and on. And there are thousands of people like him around the world residing in Immigration detention centres

This is blatant nonsense, and you ought to know it! Detentions for bona fide tourists overstaying their Visas for a few days will rarely ever be punished with more than a small fee, and the suggestion to take care of the rules next time, anywhere in the world. Mind you, I am not speaking about illegal immigrants, or the like!

They came here the first time maybe 10 Years ago, probably with an inclusive tour. Then they made the next trip on their own. Probably made a little check, and learned thy do not need a visa. Then come again, and again. Never ever had any problem.

This is not a very stupid behaviour. Yes it is!

But this is a very stupid answer!

This is a very natural and normal behaviour, I guess the majority of tourists here do it the same way. No it's not and no they don't!

As I mentioned before, I own a bar. Usually speak with lots of foreign tourist and travellers. And some times the topic of Visas and the like comes up. And I can tell you that more than 90% of those tourists have a clue.

Stupid maybe. But a very natural one, except for those like you who get intellectually or otherwise arroused by legal matters.

They never consider to live here, or work, or become a resident. They just love to spend their holiday here. And some times this takes 10 days or 2 weeks, and once in a while they can extend this for over 4, maybe 5 or six weeks.

I believe the majority of countries that allow EU citizens a visit without a Visa, they allow them up to 3 month stay. (BAsed on personal experience this includes Malaysia, Turkey, South Africa, Mauritius, Mexico, and the states in the carribian I visited.) Assuming you have some god given right to ignore sovereign countries immigration laws because you are European is arrogant, stupid behaviour!

As usual. you missed the point here. I live here, have a One Year Visa and my papers and all in order. (Hope so, at least!) But I am talking about normal tourists. Wether they believe it is their god given right to not care about specific regulations in 157 different countries that keep constantly changing, are often either not enforced, or ignored by the governments, escapes me. I don#t care. All I can state is the facts. And if Thailand wnats tourism, they will have to think about how to treat tourists that make little mistakes, without hurting anyone.

Sunny

[Mister Fixit]

But why did the Aussie that overstayed only 1 day wanted to do a visa run if he anyways has planned to leave the country 2 days later ????

He should have had better information

I don't think that anywhere in the report it said he was planning to leave the country in 2 days, did it?

[Maestro]

I don't think that anywhere in the report it said he was planning to leave the country in 2 days, did it?

From the newspaper article dated 09 February in post #1:

“In my case, on Tuesday I went to [Phuket] Immigration and said, ‘This is the last day of my visa, it expires tomorrow, what should I do?’ and they said, ‘Go and do a visa run tomorrow and pay a 200 baht overstay.’

“That’s exactly what I [was doing], but then we get pulled over by the Tourist Police and Highway Police and they make a huge problem for us,” he said.

He added that he found it dangerous and embarrassing to be forced to squat in the back of a cramped, hot police truck, which transported the overstayers along the highway with a police escort, sirens blaring.

The unexpected delay had also caused him to missed his flight out of the country, he said.

The report does not say on what date the arrest took place. We know, however, that the tourist said he went to Immigration on Tuesday. That would have been 7 Feb. He said “This is the last day of my visa, it expires tomorrow.” We have a contradiction here; let’s assume that it expired on Tuesday, 7 Feb. and make some assumptions from there:

7 Feb: last day of permission to stay

8 Feb: arrest

9 Feb: reporter interviews tourist

9 Feb: publication date

Therefore, if on 9 Feb the tourist said that he missed his flight (past tense), it must have been booked for 9 Feb. That’s based on what he was reported to have said.

--------------

Maestro

[Old Croc]

Sunny, to tidy up this debate a bit I havent repeated the very lengthy posts.

You initially quoted a British guy who came to your bar who had (or was going to) overstayed his visa by about a week. You then made an arguement (his or yours was a little unclear) that people "don't bother to look at stamps in their passport or who like to spend quality time in their holidays, without discussing matters like visa classes, permission to stay versus visa validity periods" I stated that people like this end up in Immigration detention centres. I stick with this.

Your post seems to wander between discussion on tourist overstayers and people with long term resident type visas like yourself. You proudly state that you have always kept your papers in order, but suggest a tourist with the basic one month stay can't be expected to keep track of this simple concept because "specific regulations in 157 different countries that keep constantly changing, are often either not enforced, or ignored by the governments"

You then suggest that "This is a very natural and normal behaviour, I guess the majority of tourists here do it the same way." Your authority for this astounding statistic is your ownership of a bar in Pattaya where you "Usually speak with lots of foreign tourist and travellers."

"I believe the majority of countries that allow EU citizens a visit without a Visa, they allow them up to 3 month stay. (BAsed on personal experience this includes Malaysia, Turkey, South Africa, Mauritius, Mexico, and the states in the carribian I visited" This sentence doesn't really have an ending, but I assume you were suggesting Thailand should be the same. I tend to agree, but without the racist undertones that it should only apply to the "god given" EU citizens. However, until this happens the 1 month concept will have to continue to be wrestled with by the intellectually challenged from Europe.

"Stupid maybe. But a very natural one, except for those like you who get intellectually or otherwise arroused by legal matters." A lame attempt to insult me. You should speak to others on the forum they do much better.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Old Croc