12 Foreign Tourists Arrested On "visa Run"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Illiegal immigration is what makes it ridiculously difficult for genuine visitors to even attempt to apply for a visa in many countries not only the USA. Illegal immigrants, overstayers, etc. are not to be encouraged or coverred up.

They make life difficult for all of us by abusing the system.

Exactly how do overstayers, et al "make life difficult for all of us?" I find that dubious at best.

It's odd that so many here do not or will not distinguish degrees of violation. An overstay is not the same as sneaking into a country without documentation. An overstay of a few days (or even a few weeks) out of carelessness or ignorance is not the say as going "TNT" as the Filipinos refer to it; entering legally but overstaying permanently.

An overstayer on his or her way to the border for the purpose of coming under compliance of the law need not be arrested and deported. That's just plain nuts! It is a waste of taxpayers money and police resources. If the police have nothing better to do, let them sweep a few go-go bars and catch those scofflaws who are actively evading immigration laws rather than a few easy targets who are in the process of trying to comply with it.

It's a pity that so many who post here interpret advocating for a rational, fair, consistent approach to immigration policy and enforcement (in Thailand or anywhere else) as somehow encouraging people not to comply with the law, or advancing a policy of anarchy where people just do "whatever they want." In the 13 pages in this lengthy thread, I don't recall reading any post which encouraged anyone to break the law.

Aloha,

Rex

Simply put, the hassle is absolute and total disregard for the laws of Thailand

[zzap]

All I am asking is: Please make the rules consistent. Allow a routine where a guest in Thailand that finds out he is on overstay can correct his mistake, without risking deportation.

An alternative is to visit the nearest immigration office, ask for overstay clearance. They will also give you a short extension, if they like you. They will definitively not jail you!

I know ten stories of farangs that were turned down, asked to go to border and pay up, and so far not one story that this ever happened!

Even with having been in hospital and all related paperwork a belgium friend of mine was told to go to the border and pay the overstay fine.

I'm glad he wasn't atthe bus that got busted, cause his medical condition was rather bad, he suffered a lot from just sitting in the bus, and I doubt he would have gotten off well from a week in various prisons.

George, I am aware that immigration officers can do or refuse to do whatever they feel like, but is there anything like a legal path for them to service a foreigner in the way you suggested?

Sunny

I have done this before and there were lots of others doing the same. No prob at Bangkok immigration. If you leave on the same day, you pay only for the overstay, if later, you'll have to apply for an extension as well, which was given. I believe this is official policy (I am talking about a few days overstay).

But this inconsistency from office to office is what makes me feel sorry for the guys who then get picked up by police, who have yet a different attitude to the issue.

Edited February 14, 2006 by zzap

[rexall]

Simply put, the hassle is absolute and total disregard for the laws of Thailand

Simply put, balderdash!

I have already shared that the one overstay I had in Thailand was due to stupidly thinking "one month" (31 days) instead of 30 days, which resulted in a one day over-stay. Several people have described how bad information from authorities resulted in their overstay. There must be dozens of such scenarios of carelessness, stupidity and bad advice out there. For these people, and even for those who more heinously chose to take a chance and knowingly overstay, how does this equate to an "absolute and total disregard for the laws of Thailand" ?

Pleeeeeeeeeze!

Aloha,

Rex

[george]

Governor cracks down on Phuket visa crackdowns

PHUKET: -- Phuket Governor Udomsak Usawarangkura has urged the immigration police to cooperate with the government's policy of promoting tourism by improving the convenience of their visa service for foreign visitors. Gov Udomsak said, “From my point of view, visas are an immigration service and security control is a police service. How many criminals have the immigration police ever arrested? Phuket services visas to 4 million foreigners while Bangkok services at least 11 million. What should be immigration's main objective for Phuket, service or security control?”

“Why are they (the immigration police) so strict with regulations when there is nobody to arrest? What is security for them? Is taking photos of everyone going out of Thailand called service? Why do they photograph people going out of Thailand? Tourists are very uncomfortable with this procedure and many people are not sure it improves security at all.”

Gov Udomsak told Phuket Post that he has already discussed this with the immigration police and they should cooperate to find better procedures and solutions.

“It is unnecessary to photograph whole tour groups. Any regulation that is going to inconvenience tourists should be eliminated. It is acknowledged that in peak season more immigration police officers should be sent to Phuket International Airport to service tourists. The immigration police should have known this without me having to ask.”

Phuket Immigration Airport's Superintendent, Pol Col Cherdchai Rattanamethanont said that security issues are the responsibility of the Phuket Provincial Police and the immigration police only check if people coming into Thailand are on the blacklist.

"We have had some cases of fake passports being used by illegal immigrants. Service and security issues should go together equally. If we only focus on service, it could be a big risk for national security. The photography process does not take long at all, only 40 seconds.”

He added that there are 37 immigration officers on a rotating schedule who work at Phuket International Airport and problems only occur when many flights land within a short time period.

Phuket Immigration Office's Superintendent Pol Col Prayuth Chommalee said that the officers have to work according to the regulations of the National Security Council.

“We have a one stop service at Chalong and Patong. We also have a mobile service and if organisations, such as hospitals or hotels, inform us in advance this service can be provided for the servicing of a minimum of 20 people. Central Festival Phuket is another key location for servicing foreigners but we have limited officers and Central Festival Phuket is not far from our office in Sapan Hin. I would rather look to expanding our service to areas such as Cherng Talay. We are more than happy to cooperate on making the whole process easier and quicker for tourists, this is our job and our priority.”

--Phuket Post 2006-02-14

[steveromagnino]

I am with you, but you inadvertently stepped on one of my favorite corns and one of the BIG LIES that is frequently invoked on ThaiVisa: We falang are so called, “guests” in the country . . . with the implication that, as such, we are obliged to bend over and smile while we are taking it up the butt.

The idea that we are “guests” is at best a polite figure of speech, but one which is not based upon any objective reality. We are residents and visitors and most of all are customers! The fact is that we have few rights, do not enjoy equal protection under the law, and exist at the wrong end of a dual-pricing system. Most of that is no skin off my nose most of the time, but it is hardly the way one treats a “guest.” At least when I am a “guest” at the Dusit, and they fail to actually treat me like a guest (that is as a valued, paying customer), I have recourse. As it is often misused here, this concept of “guest” is simply a effort to stifle debate, critical thought and difference of opinion.

There is no such implication that as a guest you should 'bend over'. As a guest, that means you are welcome as long as a welcome is extended. In this situation that means the welcome is extended to the day at which your visa is up until. After that, you are no longer welcome, and if you wish to continue your stay, you should prepare for that in advance.

As a guest, you are bound by the rules and regulations here, without necessarily having the ability to change them. And you may exercise your freedom to stay or go as you please. I do not see that this has much bearing with the case in point here.

Obeying the law here, as anywhere, is one or risk assessment. I can speed and I probably won't get caught, but if i do there are consequences.

The same applies in this scenario. I do not see that it is relevant that they were on a bus operated by a private company and were supposedly going to the border. The police are crystal clear on their position with regards to overstay; there are ample posts in this board to state the same, and if someone chooses to risk it, most of the time they will get away with it, but these people did not. The idea that this could be an international incident or will affect tourism is unlikely, given that most tourists have no problem complying with most laws. While there may be some scare mongering, I doubt that the average traveller goes anywhere, least of all to a developing country, with the intention of overstaying.

The idea that because MOST of the time people can just pay their way and therefore this group are somehow unfairly being treated is probably not applicable; the police are not estopped from enforcing the law, and are simply choosing to enforce it here in this case.

Unlike some other countries, the overstayers breaking the law were given the option perhaps of paying an 'instant fine' to go on their way, but chose not to. They must now deal with the consequences unfortunately, and their risk assessment in choosing to overstay was perhaps not reflective of this possibility. In future, it will be.

Incidentally, this idea that somehow 'farangs' are the high spenders propping up the tourism business is simply not true. Look at TAT statistics on spending per day, and Japanese, Indians and middle easterners are significantly higher for the most part.

Additionally, I doubt that we are getting people with significant incomes riding these visa bus rides; from what I understand it is often people on tourist visas who are actually working illegally and not paying tax, travellers making their way around Thailand (often backpacking) and finally people here on work visas who have to do 90 day runs - quite why I am unsure but such are the laws here.

There are some posters suggesting that they have been misadvised. I have also been in this position travelling to USA regarding my rights relating to the visa category I had. There is the law, then there is the person in front of you, who may have some discretion. To ensure no problems, in the event of getting advice, it is worth it to get that advice in writing, and signed off. It may help matters later on. Alternatively, read the laws for yourself, and then you can best judge whether to break them or not.

Finally, I'd say that overstaying has its consequences in many countries, and Thailand chooses to sometimes deal with hers in a fairly rough way, similar to rounding up illegal Mexican workers in USA in the town I used to work in. The police here don't seem to see a major difference in a bust between people overstaying to work and this category that seems popular in this thread of people who are simple tourists and overstaying (which is some sort of preferential category perhaps for reasons unknown to me). I doubt that Australia treats its overstayers any worse than Thailand and suspect most likely they treat them rather well, although sending the boat people refugees off to some island in the South Pacific is not the ideal solution either - Nauru I think it was - not being willing to accept the boat people rescued by a Norwegian ship in the 'Tampa crisis themselves despite request from the UN. 5,000 illegal immigrants a year in Australia; I'd say there are more illegal westerners living and working in Thailand than that.

Edited February 14, 2006 by steveromagnino

[lingyai]

You make me laugh.

Come and overstay 1 day in australia and see what happends to you.

Once again you blather on about harsh australia with out any proof.

Please show us where TOURISTS not refugees have been one day over their visa, on their way to leave the country and then locked up for months.

[elkangorito]

As foolish as this thread has become, it is an excellent one

Another good point and the more who read this the better, regardless of their personal feelings. The fact is that it is a danger to overstay and everyone should be aware of that fact. It matters not what we may think about the law and its enforcement - as long as people understand the consequences they may face.

What you have just said is quite sensible.

I remember in 1973, an Episcopalian minister disagreed with his church because the church would not allow women as priests. The minister decided to fight his church about this. After a 3 year legal battle & after he was disrobed from the church, the bigotted law was overturned.

What this shows is that 1 human can make a difference. If we all sit on our hands, nothing will be done. So, to all those 'the law is the law' people, I guess you'll be totally compliant without question, when capital punishment is installed for stealing a loaf of bread...what a "fair & just" 200 hundred year old law. Let's see how you behave when you get busted for making a MISTAKE!!!! Oh, by the way, don't give me any cr*p about not making any mistakes. Since you are human, you are certain to break "the law".

THE LAW SUX...IN ALL ASPECTS!!!!

Just wondering elkangorito, have you ever had an overstay stamp put in your passport.

As I previously stated in one of my earlier posts, yes! I have ACCIDENTALLY overstayed...for which I should be gaoled (according to many of the 'blood lusting' members here).

Edited February 14, 2006 by elkangorito

[rexall]

There is no such implication that as a guest you should 'bend over'. living and working in Thailand than that.

My rant about "guests" was only tangentially related to the main topic of overstays. I could have done a better job of making that clear. Peace brought it up in his post (also tangentially), and I thought I would seize upon it to soapbox about the ThaiVisa BIG LIES which include but are not limited to:

(1) The Law is the Law

(2) Thailand, love it or leave it!

(3) We are guests

And the implication of these vacuous statements is definitely that one must never question or think critically lest s/he be (erroneously) accused of violating BIG LIE number 4:

(4) One must not complain! (Sometimes described as whining, bleating and other less flattering synonyms).

Aloha,

Rex

[Donz]

As foolish as this thread has become, it is an excellent one

Another good point and the more who read this the better, regardless of their personal feelings. The fact is that it is a danger to overstay and everyone should be aware of that fact. It matters not what we may think about the law and its enforcement - as long as people understand the consequences they may face.

What you have just said is quite sensible.

I remember in 1973, an Episcopalian minister disagreed with his church because the church would not allow women as priests. The minister decided to fight his church about this. After a 3 year legal battle & after he was disrobed from the church, the bigotted law was overturned.

What this shows is that 1 human can make a difference. If we all sit on our hands, nothing will be done. So, to all those 'the law is the law' people, I guess you'll be totally compliant without question, when capital punishment is installed for stealing a loaf of bread...what a "fair & just" 200 hundred year old law. Let's see how you behave when you get busted for making a MISTAKE!!!! Oh, by the way, don't give me any cr*p about not making any mistakes. Since you are human, you are certain to break "the law".

THE LAW SUX...IN ALL ASPECTS!!!!

Just wondering elkangorito, have you ever had an overstay stamp put in your passport.

As I previously stated in one of my earlier posts, yes! I have ACCIDENTALLY overstayed...for which I should be gaoled (according to many of the 'blood lusting' members here).

If i was a police man i would lock you up if you overstayed or not.

[elkangorito]

Immigration Web Site

I would urge everyone to please take the time to click on the above and read the large red print (I don't know how it could be made any clearer):

Please note that if you are on the way to the border, police or immigration officers can check your passport, and if found overstay they will arrest you and send you to the nearest police station, and then to court.

Agree 100%

Because that is one of the IMMIGRATION LAWS / RULES IN THAILAND. Why not just get with the programme and avoid the possible crap that will / can certainly follow.

It 'aint hard to do

Can't load the site after several attempts. I guess that I am now as guilty as sin since my "ignorance" can't be changed because I can't see the website.

[rexall]

As I previously stated in one of my earlier posts, yes! I have ACCIDENTALLY overstayed...for which I should be gaoled (according to many of the 'blood lusting' members here).

Obviously, sir, you have a total and complete disregard for the laws of Thailand, and no appreciation whatsoever for being a guest. The guillotine, sir, is clearly to good for the likes of you!Stop your ###### whining! It's just like getting a haircut . . . only more so!

Aloha,

Rex

[elkangorito]

As I previously stated in one of my earlier posts, yes! I have ACCIDENTALLY overstayed...for which I should be gaoled (according to many of the 'blood lusting' members here).

Obviously, sir, you have a total and complete disregard for the laws of Thailand, and no appreciation whatsoever for being a guest. The guillotine, sir, is clearly to good for the likes of you!Stop your ###### whining! It's just like getting a haircut . . . only more so!

Aloha,

Rex

I'm not whining...I never have 'whined' about my overstay. On the other hand, I am sickened by the heartless control freaks who seem to be happy to send everybody to prison for a slight co*k-up. That Donz fella doesn't seem to know anything about Australian immigration. Australian Immigration is a 'subjective' thing. If you're a 'questionable' person, you may be detained...or not. Mind you, Australia is full of red-neck control freaks who watch 60 Minutes, A Current Affair & all those other lying geriatric programs. I think, if I remember correctly, that it was I who first brought up the issue of having 'clear & fair' laws. I do believe that I said something like 'let's not have one law with 2 different punishments'. (I haven't worked out how to do multiple quotes yet).

Any lazy basta*rd can sit back & recite 'law'. It takes a thinking person to question the discrepencies of dubious laws. If one mindlessly follows the law, they are therefore allowing the law to make their decisions for them. I consider this 'irresponsible'. A 'responsible' person will not rely on a law but instead rely upon their own judgement...good or bad.

Again, why the 'bloodlust'? All you 'law abiding' blood lusting control freaks are lazy. Try something new...START THINKING INDEPENDANTLY for a change.

[steveromagnino]

Any lazy basta*rd can sit back & recite 'law'. It takes a thinking person to question the discrepencies of dubious laws. If one mindlessly follows the law, they are therefore allowing the law to make their decisions for them. I consider this 'irresponsible'. A 'responsible' person will not rely on a law but instead rely upon their own judgement...good or bad.

Fair enough. And I totally agree with this principle in general, although for me, I actually like the overstay law.

The thing about the law in this case, is that i think it should be rigorously enforced and that any foreigner working should pay tax and should not overstay. It annoys me no end that people are working here and not paying tax, so I am quite happy with this law and the enforcement of it on people who are breaking it. I think the punishment is a bit OTT but am willing to not care that much. I don't like habitual tourists rolling over their tourist visas while they work here; for people here on the correct visa status who have to make visa runs; well I think that be well unfair and stupid of the govt to make you do that. Of all the people i know making visa runs, I cannot think of any that had to do it habitually every month that were doing anything constructive unless propping up NEP is considered constructive; why would you need to do it every month, surely you can get a better class of visa than this?

I am very unhappy with other aspects of how things are run, and don't complain all the time on this forum, but instead get off my fat butt to speak to people who may have the ability to change something.

I know for instance that Guesthouse does something along these lines for double pricing.

So...if you have a problem with this law then I suggest you try speaking to someone important about it to try to get it changed, much like a certain woman chose not to stand up on a bus all those years ago in USA. It takes a lot of work and sacrifice though, so maybe sitting around and calling for the death penalty etc is more enjoyable

[elkangorito]

One other thing...what is the problem with illegal immigrants? Can somebody answer this without 'money' coming into the answer? I work with racist, red-necked Australians everyday. I am saddened that they seem to be the majority here. They concern themselves with things that do not affect them. These people are full of fear & greatly lack love. No wonder there are 'profitable' wars. Their major concern is money...not quality of life. This, in itself, is not a problem but they tend to blame other people if their perceived 'profits' are threatened.

An American Native once said, "When white man has eaten the last fish, cut down the last tree & polluted the last river, he will realise that he can't eat money".

[steveromagnino]

One other thing...what is the problem with illegal immigrants? Can somebody answer this without 'money' coming into the answer? I work with racist, red-necked Australians everyday. I am saddened that they seem to be the majority here. They concern themselves with things that do not affect them. These people are full of fear & greatly lack love. No wonder there are 'profitable' wars. Their major concern is money...not quality of life. This, in itself, is not a problem but they tend to blame other people if their perceived 'profits' are threatened.

An American Native once said, "When white man has eaten the last fish, cut down the last tree & polluted the last river, he will realise that he can't eat money".

I think the general belief is that the illegal immigrants, through hard work and willingness to earn nothing are taking jobs away from the locals who would otherwise be willing to give up high paying accounting and sales jobs so that they could scrub toilets and pick fruit for $3 per hour. This actually is pretty much levelled at all immigrants, not just illegal ones.

Additionally, these illegals are not working at all they are claiming benefits and abusing social security. Having 20 kids and claiming child care etc etc.

Additionally, while they are busy working and also not working they are selling drugs to kids, and abusing children and driving pretty badly.

Additionally, while there is ample evidence to suggest that immigrants often rise to the top academically and while NZers and Australians love to travel, it is often suggested that perhaps these immigrants should just stay home, as they have not earned the right to become a 'local', and make no effort to fit in. This despite the fact that both countries pretty much ignore the people there before them in the same way many of the immigrants do now.

It is a lot easier to dislike a group you have no dealings with, because there is no need to think 'all them Kiwis are ######s, but hold up, my dad is a Kiwi and he is a bit of all right' - no problems at all, since illegal immigrants are this weird group of semi human people who are all weird and most of the people you speak of probably don't know any of them.

If you are in Australia, I'd say the biggest beneficiary fraudsters would be the 150,000+ NZers who all retire on the dole to the gold coast to enjoy your magical sun and surf, courtesy of the Aussie tax payer. Er, Thanks cobber. But harder to hate them, because they are a bit too similar; so let's go back to getting stuck into all the weird foreigners who eat weird food and don't look like us.

Sadly I don't think the White man is the only one destroying everything; I think it s just human nature to crap on stuff that doesn't belong to us.

[scotsman]

It's a no brainer really. Don't overstay. Take the bus the day before not after.

Hard concept isnt it????

I think you're missing the point. I went to immigration in Chiang Mai to extend for 2 weeks or 10 days or whatever it is they give you. I was going to be pretty busy for just 6 days past the last day of the visa. They told me I should go to Mae Sai and pay 1200 baht in overstay fees instead as it would be cheaper for me.

Some of these guys were given the same advice, then they end up in jail for the night.

Amen. I was MAKING a required but stupid ************ visa run when I ruined my shoulder. I got out of the hospital on the day my 90 days expired. First - the laws are written so that you have to make 90 day visa runs, which is stupid and xenophobic. I was on pain killers and went to CMai Immigration with all the vital pieces of paperwork, except one. The nice man nicely said to the nice pained farang, "Oh, come back tomorrow." So I came back the next day - one day past the deadline, still in pain - and the head lady didn't just believe the Thai statement on Thai letterhead from a Thai doctor; she made me take my clothes off to see the wound (I should have dropped my trousers to show the knee wounds, too). She started to collect 1,900 baht and said instead, "You say you go to Mae Sai in two more days; just go there and pay 600 baht for three days' overstay." Which is where I went, and the officer there considered the Thai statement by the Thai doctor meaningless, charging me 600 baht and putting a black mark in my passport.

No, the laws for immigration in Thailand are not clear, and it's hard to understand them. No, even regular readers of ThaiVisa.com sometimes can't get it right. No, Thailand is not friendly toward its visitors. Yes, we are guests in this beloved kingdom, and some countries are worse.

It's fair, in theory, for Thai police who have jurisdiction and authority to arrest overstayers, when they do it. But, when non-immigration police are lying in wait along a route that people are using to go to the Immigration Police, and then those non-immigration police are arresting them, detaining them in jail, and fining them - it's not right. It sounds like a 'sting' operation to increase revenue for the local police. If the Thai police want to punish overstayers, do it at the border point itself.

Ahh, Thailand. Ahh, the arguments we get into on ThaiVisa. Great stuff. I don't want to go 'home.'

At last someone says something to the point I agree thats what it was a scam by the police Then its a lesson we should all learn from dont overstay and if you have made a mistake then go to the border by other means as its not safe in a visa bus.

[elkangorito]

One other thing...what is the problem with illegal immigrants? Can somebody answer this without 'money' coming into the answer? I work with racist, red-necked Australians everyday. I am saddened that they seem to be the majority here. They concern themselves with things that do not affect them. These people are full of fear & greatly lack love. No wonder there are 'profitable' wars. Their major concern is money...not quality of life. This, in itself, is not a problem but they tend to blame other people if their perceived 'profits' are threatened.

An American Native once said, "When white man has eaten the last fish, cut down the last tree & polluted the last river, he will realise that he can't eat money".

I think the general belief is that the illegal immigrants, through hard work and willingness to earn nothing are taking jobs away from the locals who would otherwise be willing to give up high paying accounting and sales jobs so that they could scrub toilets and pick fruit for $3 per hour. This actually is pretty much levelled at all immigrants, not just illegal ones.

Additionally, these illegals are not working at all they are claiming benefits and abusing social security. Having 20 kids and claiming child care etc etc.

Additionally, while they are busy working and also not working they are selling drugs to kids, and abusing children and driving pretty badly.

Additionally, while there is ample evidence to suggest that immigrants often rise to the top academically and while NZers and Australians love to travel, it is often suggested that perhaps these immigrants should just stay home, as they have not earned the right to become a 'local', and make no effort to fit in. This despite the fact that both countries pretty much ignore the people there before them in the same way many of the immigrants do now.

It is a lot easier to dislike a group you have no dealings with, because there is no need to think 'all them Kiwis are ######s, but hold up, my dad is a Kiwi and he is a bit of all right' - no problems at all, since illegal immigrants are this weird group of semi human people who are all weird and most of the people you speak of probably don't know any of them.

If you are in Australia, I'd say the biggest beneficiary fraudsters would be the 150,000+ NZers who all retire on the dole to the gold coast to enjoy your magical sun and surf, courtesy of the Aussie tax payer. Er, Thanks cobber. But harder to hate them, because they are a bit too similar; so let's go back to getting stuck into all the weird foreigners who eat weird food and don't look like us.

Sadly I don't think the White man is the only one destroying everything; I think it s just human nature to crap on stuff that doesn't belong to us.

Oh come on Steve!!! You have not qualified your statements. Allow me to do so for you.

You said, "Additionally, while there is ample evidence to suggest that immigrants often rise to the top academically and while NZers and Australians love to travel, it is often suggested that perhaps these immigrants should just stay home, as they have not earned the right to become a 'local', and make no effort to fit in."

What evidence? And even if there is such evidence, it is 'the law' that allows such 'immigrants' to 'rise to the top'...something that lazy Australians do not wish to do. Also, do you not believe in personal achievement?

You said, "I think the general belief is that the illegal immigrants, through hard work and willingness to earn nothing are taking jobs away from the locals who would otherwise be willing to give up high paying accounting and sales jobs so that they could scrub toilets and pick fruit for $3 per hour. This actually is pretty much levelled at all immigrants, not just illegal ones."

The 'general red-necked' belief is as you say but not true. I don't know of many Aussies who want to give up their $70k per year job to scrub toilets. Also, 70 years of Australian immigration has shown that the immigrants are willing to do the work that Australians were not willing to do.

You said, "Additionally, these illegals are not working at all they are claiming benefits and abusing social security. Having 20 kids and claiming child care etc etc."

Many 'white' Australians do this. As a matter of fact, I dare say that they would out-number the immigrants on this one. Also, if the immigrants get away with such things, it is because they use the 'law' to do so...nothing else.

You said, "Additionally, while they are busy working and also not working they are selling drugs to kids, and abusing children and driving pretty badly."

What is this rubbish? Have YOU convicted them? Show some real statistics here otherwise, this is 'heresay'.

You said, "If you are in Australia, I'd say the biggest beneficiary fraudsters would be the 150,000+ NZers who all retire on the dole to the gold coast to enjoy your magical sun and surf, courtesy of the Aussie tax payer. Er, Thanks cobber. But harder to hate them, because they are a bit too similar; so let's go back to getting stuck into all the weird foreigners who eat weird food and don't look like us. "

What the!!!!! Don't you realise that these people can do this because the 'law' permits them to do so? If you want to BLAME someone (a useless & unproductive thing to do), blame the elected government...not the immigrants. Again, it's the idiot 'law' that is the problem, not the immigrants.

This now goes back to the core of this discussion. It stands out like dog's balls, that the law is at fault, more so than the foreigners, for this farce. People will be people...all over the world. We ALL co*k up. If you want to be black & white about it (the lazy way out), then you may change your mind when, one day, you display that wonderful human trait of making mistakes. By the way, we are talking of a mistake here, not purposely overstaying.

[lopburi3]

By the way, we are talking of a mistake here, not purposely overstaying.

These people were fully aware when they had to leave but chose to overstay. They were purposely overstaying in the belief that the consequences would not be that great and they could afford the normal fine for there illegal actions. Do Not Overstay.

[elkangorito]

Ahhhhhh! One of the 'blood lusters' responds.

Ok then. Lets send them to gaol for 5 years to really show them a thing or 2. And why not throw in a hefty fine as well. I'm sure that a jury full of people like you wouldn't want any less. Oh, and what's the charge...for 'knowingly' overstaying a day or 2 whilst on the way to the border to correct the problem.

Lop, are you a Thai cop by any chance?

[elkangorito]

By the way, we are talking of a mistake here, not purposely overstaying.

These people were fully aware when they had to leave but chose to overstay. They were purposely overstaying in the belief that the consequences would not be that great and they could afford the normal fine for there illegal actions. Do Not Overstay.

Almost forgot. You have just validated an argument that many have stated..."They were purposely overstaying in the belief that the consequences would not be that great and they could afford the normal fine for there illegal actions."

This validates the argument of the way that this law has 2 punishments. How can anyone be expected to make a reasonable & sensible judgement under these conditions? You stated that these people believed (logically from reasonable authority no doubt...& don't give me this cr*p about the immigration website that refuses to load) that an overstay only incurred a fine, yet the cops say another thing. What is a white boy gunna do? Probably take the logically easier "Thai recommended' way out or surrender to the cops, pay a "fine" (yeah, right) & then go to gaol. Are you nuts? What would you do? If you say "I'd go to gaol", I'll kiss my b*m all the way to the moon & back.

[lopburi3]

These people were not leaving Thailand. They were making a border crossing in the hope of receiving another 30 days in Thailand without paying for a visa. Save your tears for those that deserve them. Nobody here is suggesting the hanging tree. What we are trying to do is overcome the bar room lawyer talk that convinces these people to violate the law instead of live within it. Overstay can have serious repercussions and everyone should be made aware of that fact.

Obviously some of the posters here do not take kindly to any laws; but that's another story.

[Sunny Valentine]

here is the law, then there is the person in front of you, who may have some discretion. To ensure no problems, in the event of getting advice, it is worth it to get that advice in writing, and signed off. It may help matters later on.

Hello, this is Thailand we're speaking of! Ever been there?

????????????

Sunny

These people were fully aware when they had to leave but chose to overstay. They were purposely overstaying in the belief that the consequences would not be that great and they could afford the normal fine for there illegal actions. Do Not Overstay.

What makes you believe that? Spoken to them all? Know their background? Or are you just assuming?

Edited February 14, 2006 by Sunny Valentine

[zzap]

... Then its a lesson we should all learn from dont overstay and if you have made a mistake then go to the border by other means as its not safe in a visa bus.

All vehicles travelling on main roads towards borderpoints are checked routinely, but police have been rather lenient, i.e. not interested in a few days overstay, since the guys were obviously on their way to correct this situation.

The question is, does this incident signal a new policy (police, not immigration) or is it an exceptional occurence, i.e. we do not know the politics and motivation behind this, do we?

[lopburi3]

Are you assuming they were too dumb to be able to read a permitted to stay stamp? I don't believe they were dumb but I do believe they probably listened to the wrong people.

And I do believe that they knew they had overstayed and they were not heading for an airport to leave. The only thing they could do at that crossing was return to Thailand.

What makes you believe that? Spoken to them all? Know their background? Or are you just assuming?

[zzap]

Obviously some of the posters here do not take kindly to any laws; but that's another story.

What makes you assume this?

I hope you don't include me in this statement, I've learned to take advice from official sources very seriously.

I don't believe they were dumb but I do believe they probably listened to the wrong people.

Such as immigration officers? Edited February 14, 2006 by zzap

[Maestro]

If you find yourself accidentally on overstay, go to the nearest Immigration office, volunteer to pay the overstay fine and apply for an extension...

If you are on overstay it is too late for an extension and you had better head for the airport with ticket in hand. Extend or leave before it becomes a factor.

But one can go to the Immigration Office in town first and pay the fine there, in order to avoid the risk of getting caught on the way to the airport, can’t one? It’s not that I am planning to put myself in that situation, nor would I recommend it to anyone else, just wondering.

Getting an extension on top of it would be too much to hope for, I agree.

I see the answer in posts #208 (yes), #211 (no), #213 (depends on the immigration office; Suan Plu BKK usually accepts overstay payments if leaving same day or shortly afterwards). Perhaps it is not official policy for the Immigration Offices in town to handle overstay fines and in Bangkok they are merely being extra helpful. The cases Suan Plu sees, I assume, are overstaying tourists who have a ticket showing that they are flying back to where they came from, not just doing a visa-avoidance border run. But even these tourist, if they took the trouble to look at their passports, could and should apply for an extension before their permitted stay expires. After all, it’s very tourist-friendly on the part of Immigration to offer this possibility of extension.

---------------

Maestro

[rexall]

And I do believe that they knew they had overstayed and they were not heading for an airport to leave. The only thing they could do at that crossing was return to Thailand.

What makes you believe that? Spoken to them all? Know their background? Or are you just assuming?

I don't get this logic. What the hel_l has it got to do with the price of peas in Peoria? Obviously, they knew they weren't heading for an airport. We established ages ago that they were on their way to the border to pay a fine and comply with the law. So, now you are saying that it is improper use use a border?

They did not pass through a check point, they were targeted by police who falsely claimed they were "informed" that overstayers were on the bus. As others have posted, we don't know why this happened, and we have almost no information about what went on as it was happening. If the allegations of the cops asking for a bribe are true, then this is not about enforcing the law as you claim, it's about the cops shaking people down.

And eventhough you seem to believe that you can read the minds of the overstayers, the fact is that we do not know what they knew or didn't know about the law and their status, or why they overstayed in the first place, but clearly their intentions were to comply with the law by leaving Thailand and paying a fine for the overstay.

Another thing which no one has touched upon is what deportation potentially meant to some of these guys, possibly much more traumatic than a night in the pokey. If they are just tourists only passing through, perhaps it's not a big deal. If they are long-stay, they may have jobs and families and houses and a "life" suddenly pulled out from under them and turned upside down.

And . . . yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. It doesn't matter because they knew they were breaking the law and deserved what they got!

Aloha,

Rex

These people were not leaving Thailand. They were making a border crossing . . .

Now, this truly is a bizarre statement! How on earth can you make a border crossing without leaving Thailand?

Aloha,

Rex

Edited February 14, 2006 by rexall

[lom]

Are you assuming they were too dumb to be able to read a permitted to stay stamp? I don't believe they were dumb but I do believe they probably listened to the wrong people.

And I do believe that they knew they had overstayed and they were not heading for an airport to leave. The only thing they could do at that crossing was return to Thailand.

And I beleive that most of them where not tourists, it is well known that the visa run's are mostly

used by illegal workers.

The 30 day entry permit is sufficient for the majority of tourists , and for those who want to stay longer

there is the 60 + 30 day tourist visa. Those staying longer than that has another agenda and should

have gotten themself another type of visa.

That the 30 day entry is beeing abused is of course a nail in the eye for the government so this

"sting" doesn't surprise me at all. It has happened before and it will happen in the future so take

the good advice that so many have given here : Don't overstay !!

[rexall]

And I do believe that they knew they had overstayed and they were not heading for an airport to leave. The only thing they could do at that crossing was return to Thailand.

What makes you believe that? Spoken to them all? Know their background? Or are you just assuming?

I don't get this logic. What the hel_l has it got to do with the price of peas in Peoria? Obviously, they knew they weren't heading for an airport. We established ages ago that they were on their way to the border to pay a fine and comply with the law. So, now you are saying that it is improper use use a border?

They did not pass through a check point, they were targeted by police who falsely claimed they were "informed" that overstayers were on the bus. As others have posted, we don't know why this happened, and we have almost no information about what went on as it was happening. If the allegations of the cops asking for a bribe are true, then this is not about enforcing the law as you claim, it's about the cops shaking people down.

And eventhough you seem to believe that you can read the minds of the overstayers, the fact is that we do not know what they knew or didn't know about the law and their status, or why they overstayed in the first place, but clearly their intentions were to comply with the law by leaving Thailand and paying a fine for the overstay. Surely you must feel it is at least as important for the cops to obey the law as it is for evil foreigners?

Another thing which no one has touched upon is what deportation potentially meant to some of these guys, possibly much more traumatic than a night in the pokey. If they are just tourists only passing through, perhaps it's not a big deal. If they are long-stay, they may have jobs and families and houses and a "life" suddenly pulled out from under them and turned upside down.

And . . . yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. It doesn't matter because they knew they were breaking the law and deserved what they got!

Aloha,

Rex

These people were not leaving Thailand. They were making a border crossing . . .

Now, this truly is a bizarre statement! How on earth can you make a border crossing without leaving Thailand?

Aloha,

Rex

[lom]

But one can go to the Immigration Office in town first and pay the fine there, in order to avoid the risk of getting caught on the way to the airport, can’t one? It’s not that I am planning to put myself in that situation, nor would I recommend it to anyone else, just wondering.

Getting an extension on top of it would be too much to hope for, I agree.

Maestro[/size]

They can give you a short extension given that you pay your current overstay first.

But this is up to the individual immigration officer, If you're a nice guy and he likes your story you might get it.

But don't expect that favour if you arrive with a passport full of consecutive 30 day entries..

Edited February 14, 2006 by lom