12 Foreign Tourists Arrested On "visa Run"

[Donz]

elkangorito, I know where your comming from, Yes i agree we all should be able to just roam anywhere and be free cause where all human ect. But some people are making this out to be some sort of gross injustice in the world and calling this situation should be made public all over the world.

But this case is not even that server compared to what happends in alot of other countries around the world.

If im visiting a country i will try as hard as i can to obey the law because you should show respect when visiting foreign country.

People also complaining about prison conditions??? Well it is suppose to be a prison, not a holiday. If you break the law you should be prepared to take responsibilty for your actions, yeah maybe you heard someone got off with a bribe here and there but does not give everyone a green light to make bribes also. Things like this happends everywhere. Some of you make out its only Thailand that has ever locked up someone for overstaying which i think is funny.

[elkangorito]

As foolish as this thread has become, it is an excellent one

Another good point and the more who read this the better, regardless of their personal feelings. The fact is that it is a danger to overstay and everyone should be aware of that fact. It matters not what we may think about the law and its enforcement - as long as people understand the consequences they may face.

What you have just said is quite sensible.

I remember in 1973, an Episcopalian minister disagreed with his church because the church would not allow women as priests. The minister decided to fight his church about this. After a 3 year legal battle & after he was disrobed from the church, the bigotted law was overturned.

What this shows is that 1 human can make a difference. If we all sit on our hands, nothing will be done. So, to all those 'the law is the law' people, I guess you'll be totally compliant without question, when capital punishment is installed for stealing a loaf of bread...what a "fair & just" 200 hundred year old law. Let's see how you behave when you get busted for making a MISTAKE!!!! Oh, by the way, don't give me any cr*p about not making any mistakes. Since you are human, you are certain to break "the law".

THE LAW SUX...IN ALL ASPECTS!!!!

[davidmurin]

As foolish as this thread has become, it is an excellent one

Another good point and the more who read this the better, regardless of their personal feelings. The fact is that it is a danger to overstay and everyone should be aware of that fact. It matters not what we may think about the law and its enforcement - as long as people understand the consequences they may face.

Well as far as overstays I have a friend that has been here 8 years without a valid passport nor a visa but he does know the police and military in his area and around Thailand and has no trouble because he makes no trouble. He is retired and can cover his arse if drinking and driving but not many incidences just keep on smiling.

[Thai Chi]

As foolish as this thread has become, it is an excellent one

Another good point and the more who read this the better, regardless of their personal feelings. The fact is that it is a danger to overstay and everyone should be aware of that fact. It matters not what we may think about the law and its enforcement - as long as people understand the consequences they may face.

What you have just said is quite sensible.

I remember in 1973, an Episcopalian minister disagreed with his church because the church would not allow women as priests. The minister decided to fight his church about this. After a 3 year legal battle & after he was disrobed from the church, the bigotted law was overturned.

What this shows is that 1 human can make a difference. If we all sit on our hands, nothing will be done. So, to all those 'the law is the law' people, I guess you'll be totally compliant without question, when capital punishment is installed for stealing a loaf of bread...what a "fair & just" 200 hundred year old law. Let's see how you behave when you get busted for making a MISTAKE!!!! Oh, by the way, don't give me any cr*p about not making any mistakes. Since you are human, you are certain to break "the law".

THE LAW SUX...IN ALL ASPECTS!!!!

Just wondering elkangorito, have you ever had an overstay stamp put in your passport.

[thomasjojo]

[...]

I thought I read on these posts last year they were going to stop the Visa runs?

Best regards Pip

You can still make a visa run, Its leaving the kingdom and re-enter as a new coming tourist, or with a Non-img B visa (3 months or so).

I did 3 of them in a row once... Singapore basically. I wondered how many they would give me, but I stopped before they stopped me. I theory, There is no limits.

[lopburi3]

Immigration Web Site

I would urge everyone to please take the time to click on the above and read the large red print (I don't know how it could be made any clearer):

Please note that if you are on the way to the border, police or immigration officers can check your passport, and if found overstay they will arrest you and send you to the nearest police station, and then to court.

[samran]

What would TV be without a semi regular poverty packers vs legit resident debate every now and then?

Well as far as overstays I have a friend that has been here 8 years without a valid passport nor a visa but he does know the police and military in his area and around Thailand and has no trouble because he makes no trouble. He is retired and can cover his arse if drinking and driving but not many incidences just keep on smiling.

Geez, I hope your mate never is on the road at the same time I am. Frigging irresponsible and dangerous, but I guess that is reflective of his entire ethos of living here.

[Thai Chi]

Immigration Web Site

I would urge everyone to please take the time to click on the above and read the large red print (I don't know how it could be made any clearer):

Please note that if you are on the way to the border, police or immigration officers can check your passport, and if found overstay they will arrest you and send you to the nearest police station, and then to court.

Agree 100%

Because that is one of the IMMIGRATION LAWS / RULES IN THAILAND. Why not just get with the programme and avoid the possible crap that will / can certainly follow.

It 'aint hard to do

[thomasjojo]

cant load that page here... is it located in Thai?

[lung]

some news...?

[TAWP]

cant load that page here... is it located in Thai?

Me neither. (It just says it can't find the site, so it shouldn't be any policy-issue with the ISP.)

[Bill]

You have to believe that individuals who overstay know they are breaking the law. Why should Thailand be any different from any other country? If you come to the US and overstay, you can be expected to be picked up and arrested. That always means a stay in jail. No Pity for any of these scofflaws.

Tell that to the estimated 7 million illegal immigrants in the US today! (More than 1 in every 50 people in the US is an illegal immigrant). See http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html if you don't believe my figures (current US population is approximately 300 million).

In most cases, if no law has been violated, people in the US do not have to show any paperwork, and cannot be detained or deported.

Pity visitors in Thailand don't enjoy the same freedom (of course, if you are well off or well connected some laws may not apply to you...).

[Donz]

You have to believe that individuals who overstay know they are breaking the law. Why should Thailand be any different from any other country? If you come to the US and overstay, you can be expected to be picked up and arrested. That always means a stay in jail. No Pity for any of these scofflaws.

Tell that to the estimated 7 million illegal immigrants in the US today! (More than 1 in every 50 people in the US is an illegal immigrant). See http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html if you don't believe my figures (current US population is approximately 300 million).

In most cases, if no law has been violated, people in the US do not have to show any paperwork, and cannot be detained or deported.

Pity visitors in Thailand don't enjoy the same freedom (of course, if you are well off or well connected some laws may not apply to you...).

So in other words you think overstaying should be ok???

[Krub]

You have to believe that individuals who overstay know they are breaking the law. Why should Thailand be any different from any other country? If you come to the US and overstay, you can be expected to be picked up and arrested. That always means a stay in jail. No Pity for any of these scofflaws.

Tell that to the estimated 7 million illegal immigrants in the US today! (More than 1 in every 50 people in the US is an illegal immigrant). See http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html if you don't believe my figures (current US population is approximately 300 million).

In most cases, if no law has been violated, people in the US do not have to show any paperwork, and cannot be detained or deported.

Pity visitors in Thailand don't enjoy the same freedom (of course, if you are well off or well connected some laws may not apply to you...).

Illiegal immigration is what makes it ridiculously difficult for genuine visitors to even attempt to apply for a visa in many countries not only the USA.

Illegal immigrants, overstayers, etc. are not to be encouraged or coverred up.

They make life difficult for all of us by abusing the system.

[rexall]

Illiegal immigration is what makes it ridiculously difficult for genuine visitors to even attempt to apply for a visa in many countries not only the USA. Illegal immigrants, overstayers, etc. are not to be encouraged or coverred up.

They make life difficult for all of us by abusing the system.

Exactly how do overstayers, et al "make life difficult for all of us?" I find that dubious at best.

It's odd that so many here do not or will not distinguish degrees of violation. An overstay is not the same as sneaking into a country without documentation. An overstay of a few days (or even a few weeks) out of carelessness or ignorance is not the say as going "TNT" as the Filipinos refer to it; entering legally but overstaying permanently.

An overstayer on his or her way to the border for the purpose of coming under compliance of the law need not be arrested and deported. That's just plain nuts! It is a waste of taxpayers money and police resources. If the police have nothing better to do, let them sweep a few go-go bars and catch those scofflaws who are actively evading immigration laws rather than a few easy targets who are in the process of trying to comply with it.

It's a pity that so many who post here interpret advocating for a rational, fair, consistent approach to immigration policy and enforcement (in Thailand or anywhere else) as somehow encouraging people not to comply with the law, or advancing a policy of anarchy where people just do "whatever they want." In the 13 pages in this lengthy thread, I don't recall reading any post which encouraged anyone to break the law.

Aloha,

Rex

[Donz]

I dont know what the big deal is.

They overstayed, they got caught and are getting punished for breaking the law.

Just because some can get around it doesnt mean everyone will get around it.

Being caught overstaying in other countries the penalties are ALOT harsher.

People are going about this like its blue murder.

[Krub]

Illiegal immigration is what makes it ridiculously difficult for genuine visitors to even attempt to apply for a visa in many countries not only the USA. Illegal immigrants, overstayers, etc. are not to be encouraged or coverred up.

They make life difficult for all of us by abusing the system.

Exactly how do overstayers, et al "make life difficult for all of us?" I find that dubious at best.

It's odd that so many here do not or will not distinguish degrees of violation. An overstay is not the same as sneaking into a country without documentation. An overstay of a few days (or even a few weeks) out of carelessness or ignorance is not the say as going "TNT" as the Filipinos refer to it; entering legally but overstaying permanently.

An overstayer on his or her way to the border for the purpose of coming under compliance of the law need not be arrested and deported. That's just plain nuts! It is a waste of taxpayers money and police resources. If the police have nothing better to do, let them sweep a few go-go bars and catch those scofflaws who are actively evading immigration laws rather than a few easy targets who are in the process of trying to comply with it.

It's a pity that so many who post here interpret advocating for a rational, fair, consistent approach to immigration policy and enforcement (in Thailand or anywhere else) as somehow encouraging people not to comply with the law, or advancing a policy of anarchy where people just do "whatever they want." In the 13 pages in this lengthy thread, I don't recall reading any post which encouraged anyone to break the law.

Aloha,

Rex

Rex

I agree that locking up for several days and deporting for a few days overstay on a 30 day or tourist visa is an overkill. On that point there could be a more lenient way to deal with the mistake.

But already Thailand is making it very easy by accepting at boarder points/airports to let the overstayers pay a fine and be on their way.

My point is that if there are more and more abusers of the system where do you draw the line ? a few days ? a few weeks ?

The more abusers the more difficult it will be for the authorities to let a genuine mistake go unpunished as the exception will become the rule.

[rexall]

Well, you always have to draw a line somewhere. That is what the Parliament and the criminal justice system is for. Reasonable people can debate and compromise over whether the line should be two weeks or six weeks or eight weeks. And I suppose there will always be some poor bastard that gets in trouble for missing the deadline by one day. Not much you can do about that. But even a Keystone Cop can tell the difference between someone who is en-route to the border in order to comply with the law and those who are evading it.

True, overstaying is a silly mistake to make especially as it can so easily be avoided by being more aware and better organized. Clearly if the overstayers on the Rayong bus thought they were going to be arrested they would have made other arrangements!

I am pretty organized, and the one overstay I had many years ago was because I stupidly calculated my deadline based upon one month rather than 30 days which caused me to miss the deadline by one day. Stupid? You bet! My fault? Absolutely! A "crime" that I should have been jailed and deported for? Not!

Aloha,

Rex

[PeaceBlondie]

It's a no brainer really. Don't overstay. Take the bus the day before not after.

Hard concept isnt it????

I think you're missing the point. I went to immigration in Chiang Mai to extend for 2 weeks or 10 days or whatever it is they give you. I was going to be pretty busy for just 6 days past the last day of the visa. They told me I should go to Mae Sai and pay 1200 baht in overstay fees instead as it would be cheaper for me.

Some of these guys were given the same advice, then they end up in jail for the night.

Amen. I was MAKING a required but stupid ************ visa run when I ruined my shoulder. I got out of the hospital on the day my 90 days expired. First - the laws are written so that you have to make 90 day visa runs, which is stupid and xenophobic. I was on pain killers and went to CMai Immigration with all the vital pieces of paperwork, except one. The nice man nicely said to the nice pained farang, "Oh, come back tomorrow." So I came back the next day - one day past the deadline, still in pain - and the head lady didn't just believe the Thai statement on Thai letterhead from a Thai doctor; she made me take my clothes off to see the wound (I should have dropped my trousers to show the knee wounds, too). She started to collect 1,900 baht and said instead, "You say you go to Mae Sai in two more days; just go there and pay 600 baht for three days' overstay." Which is where I went, and the officer there considered the Thai statement by the Thai doctor meaningless, charging me 600 baht and putting a black mark in my passport.

No, the laws for immigration in Thailand are not clear, and it's hard to understand them. No, even regular readers of ThaiVisa.com sometimes can't get it right. No, Thailand is not friendly toward its visitors. Yes, we are guests in this beloved kingdom, and some countries are worse.

It's fair, in theory, for Thai police who have jurisdiction and authority to arrest overstayers, when they do it. But, when non-immigration police are lying in wait along a route that people are using to go to the Immigration Police, and then those non-immigration police are arresting them, detaining them in jail, and fining them - it's not right. It sounds like a 'sting' operation to increase revenue for the local police. If the Thai police want to punish overstayers, do it at the border point itself.

Ahh, Thailand. Ahh, the arguments we get into on ThaiVisa. Great stuff. I don't want to go 'home.'

[Donz]

You make me laugh.

Come and overstay 1 day in australia and see what happends to you.

[Terminator]

try malaysia, about 12 philipino, chinese, thai girls got caught for overstay back in november last year, as of today they all are still waiting in the slammer for their deportation orders!

btw malaysia has a 90-day upon arrival for most nationalities!

[Donz]

try malaysia, about 12 philipino, chinese, thai girls got caught for overstay back in november last year, as of today they all are still waiting in the slammer for their deportation orders!

btw malaysia has a 90-day upon arrival for most nationalities!

some people have been in detention for more then 10 years in australia.

AUstralia also lock children up.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Donz

[rexall]

[ Yes, we are guests in this beloved kingdom, and some countries are worse.

Well said, Peace. Chilling story.

I am with you, but you inadvertently stepped on one of my favorite corns and one of the BIG LIES that is frequently invoked on ThaiVisa: We falang are so called, “guests” in the country . . . with the implication that, as such, we are obliged to bend over and smile while we are taking it up the butt.

The idea that we are “guests” is at best a polite figure of speech, but one which is not based upon any objective reality. We are residents and visitors and most of all are customers! The fact is that we have few rights, do not enjoy equal protection under the law, and exist at the wrong end of a dual-pricing system. Most of that is no skin off my nose most of the time, but it is hardly the way one treats a “guest.” At least when I am a “guest” at the Dusit, and they fail to actually treat me like a guest (that is as a valued, paying customer), I have recourse. As it is often misused here, this concept of “guest” is simply a effort to stifle debate, critical thought and difference of opinion.

I am be a “guest” figuratively speaking, but that does not mean that I must park my ability to think on the other side of the border, nor does it invalidate my opinions, nor does it deny me the right to express them.

And let me take this opportunity to preempt any knee-jerk responses invoking another of my favorite BIG LIES . . . “Thailand, love it or leave it!”

(1) I love living in Thailand, but there are also some things I do not like about it, and some things that drive me absolutely crazy! But . . .

(2) I have absolutely no intention of leaving the country, thank you very much! And . . .

(3) I have every intention of continuing to discuss those issues whenever I feel like it. Naner, naner, naner !

Aloha,

Rex

Oh, and for that guy the other day who humiliated me and cut me to the quick for using smileys inappropriately ==>

[Donz]

I think you all complaining about nothing.

Being arrested and put in prison for overstaying your visa is a common practice ALL OVER THE WORLD.

How hard is it to have a valid visa?? Especially in Thailand, there should be no excuse.

The Thai immigration are making a stand and its good that more people know about this story so people might actually get there visa renewed on time.

I say good on them and i hope these "visitors" learn next time not to overstay there visa.

Like i said before, try to overstay your visa 1 day in australia and see what happends to you if you get caught.

[Sunny Valentine]

I'm with you on some of the issues you posted, but let's get one thing clear:

being a guest doesn't automatically gain you rights in any way. And it also implies that accepting this status means your host can expect some gratitude from your side.

So, yes, I am with you that we shouldn't stop thinking, and even talking and acting accordingly, pointing out when something just isn't right. Will it make a difference to our hosts? Probably not.

But it is a good feeling to not stop thinking and and acting freely, within the boundaries of local laws as well as human rights.

To all the bashers who don't stop posting that overstaying is a crime that's even more severely handled in Australia and somewhere else, all I can say that I once spend an extended holiday in this beautiful land. Once my Visa was close to come to an end, I wnet to a local police station, they pointed me to the nearest immigration office, where I easily got the requested 4 weeks extension by showing a few documanets including an open date return ticket, and two credit cards.

In a similar situation in Thailand 3 Years ago immigration told me I should not worry about 4 days overstay, just go to the airport and pay a small fee. I questeioned this suggestion, ang got away with an extension of my 30 day permit, but only after me telling them what I learned from information posted on here as well as other info sites.

All I am asking is: Please make the rules consistent. Allow a routine where a guest in Thailand that finds out he is on overstay can correct his mistake, without risking deportation.

And:

Don't shoot soldiers wearing a white flag! it is against the geneva convention!

Sunny

[ Yes, we are guests in this beloved kingdom, and some countries are worse.

Well said, Peace. Chilling story.

I am with you, but you inadvertently stepped on one of my favorite corns and one of the BIG LIES that is frequently invoked on ThaiVisa: We falang are so called, “guests” in the country . . . with the implication that, as such, we are obliged to bend over and smile while we are taking it up the butt.

The idea that we are “guests” is at best a polite figure of speech, but one which is not based upon any objective reality. We are residents and visitors and most of all are customers! The fact is that we have few rights, do not enjoy equal protection under the law, and exist at the wrong end of a dual-pricing system. Most of that is no skin off my nose most of the time, but it is hardly the way one treats a “guest.” At least when I am a “guest” at the Dusit, and they fail to actually treat me like a guest (that is as a valued, paying customer), I have recourse. As it is often misused here, this concept of “guest” is simply a effort to stifle debate, critical thought and difference of opinion.

I am be a “guest” figuratively speaking, but that does not mean that I must park my ability to think on the other side of the border, nor does it invalidate my opinions, nor does it deny me the right to express them.

And let me take this opportunity to preempt any knee-jerk responses invoking another of my favorite BIG LIES . . . “Thailand, love it or leave it!”

(1) I love living in Thailand, but there are also some things I do not like about it, and some things that drive me absolutely crazy! But . . .

(2) I have absolutely no intention of leaving the country, thank you very much! And . . .

(3) I have every intention of continuing to discuss those issues whenever I feel like it. Naner, naner, naner !

Aloha,

Rex

Oh, and for that guy the other day who humiliated me and cut me to the quick for using smileys inappropriately ==>

[zzap]

I think you all complaining about nothing.

...

The Thai immigration are making a stand and its good that more people know about this story so people might actually get there visa renewed on time.

...

Wrong: Thai immigration confirmed they haven't changed policy and would simply have fined the overstayers, but they were arrested by an unrelated police division.

Is it really so hard to read the facts before commenting?

[george]

All I am asking is: Please make the rules consistent. Allow a routine where a guest in Thailand that finds out he is on overstay can correct his mistake, without risking deportation.

An alternative is to visit the nearest immigration office, ask for overstay clearance. They will also give you a short extension, if they like you. They will definitively not jail you!

[Chris Lawrence]

In australia if you overstay your visa you get locked up for years.

There was 1 case were we locked up a overstayer for more then 10 years

Even if you are an Australian citezen they will still lock you up or even worse send you to the Phillipenes

[Old Croc]

I cant believe some of you think the penalty is harsh?? you overstay in australia you get locked up for years and sometimes over a decade without even being charged.

Its not months, its years, even 10 years plus.

i dont have sources but ask any fellow aussie members and they will agree.

Its been on the news last year and was made a big deal.

Even children get locked up....doesnt matter how old you are, if you overstay in australia you will be sent to a detention centre for a long time.

Kids are even born in there.

Compared to australia its a slap on the wrist.

Alot of immigration officers here have been caught over the years abuseing overstayers sexually and mentally.

Nope, but alot ask for sexual favours which a few have been caught

Chucky.

First of all if you overstay 1 day your are illegal, second detention centres in australia are far from a hotel, surrounded by barbed wires and getting a small room and constantly being woken up every 2 or 3 hours by the immigration officers is not close to being a hotel. (but who would expect it to be).

Kids have also been in there for there entire lives, yes its there parents fault but does the kids have to suffer for that??

Remeber the Philipino lady she was deported back to the philipines even know she was an AUSTRALIAN citizen and she even told them but the immigration officers deported her anyway.

There are so many incidents that has happend (sexual,rape, bribes) over the years in australia so you see this incident in Thailand is not so bad.

some people have been in detention for more then 10 years in australia.

AUstralia also lock children up.

Like i said before, try to overstay your visa 1 day in australia and see what happends to you if you get caught.

Donz, I've reproduced a lot of your thoughts from various posts, on Immigration detention in Australia, and would like to address them as I feel your comments are hysterical, inaccurate and ignorant.

I think Lopburi and others have covered the situation in Thailand very well and I won't go there in this post.

Firstly, I must point out some differences between the typical overstayers in Thailand and many of the illegal immigrants in Australia. Thailand is not a signatory to the "Convention relating to the status of Refugees" and therefore does not have an obligation under that convention. Australia does, and is an attractive destination for many of the worlds displaced persons (and those fraudulently seeking such status). Therefore many people enter Australia, both legally and illegally, and apply for refugee status. Virtually all long term residents of the processing centres are in that catagory.

They are only there long term because they have been refused such status and fail to accept the decisions, and court appeals, that have resulted. It is very difficult to forcebly remove people who wont reveal their true nationality, identity or sign documents to obtain passports.

Anybody in Immigration custody in Australia can return to their own country on the next available flight if they are willing and cooperative. There is no regime of detentive punishment for breach of immigration law.

Kids are held with their parents in centres. Trials with the mother and children in housing in the community have been unsuccessful as they fail to assimilate without the father.

As far as your typical tourist overstayer in Australia is concerned, when located they may be held in a city detention centre until such time as they, or the taxpayers, can organise a flight out. Or they may, at the discretion of the immigration officer, be granted a temporary Bridging Visa to enable them to stay in the community until a set event (departure). This would generally be granted if they were not considered to be a flight risk.

In the scenario of a one day overstayer located on the way to the airport one of two things would happen. Most likely they would be given a Bridging Visa as outlined above or they could be accompanied (in custody) to the flight.

As far as your accusations of abuse by and bribery to Immigration officers this is incorrect. The guarding of processing and detention centres has been outsourced to private companies and there has been some incidents involving their staff, resulting in sackings and contract penalties.

There was certainly some very shoddy decision making with the woman deported to the Phillipines, particularly involving the coverup when it was discovered she was a citizen. People lost their jobs and a senate committee examained the issue to ensure it can't happen again.

Believing every hysterical headline written by a journalist with an agenda only proves your own naievity Donz.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Old Croc

[Sunny Valentine]

All I am asking is: Please make the rules consistent. Allow a routine where a guest in Thailand that finds out he is on overstay can correct his mistake, without risking deportation.

An alternative is to visit the nearest immigration office, ask for overstay clearance. They will also give you a short extension, if they like you. They will definitively not jail you!

I know ten stories of farangs that were turned down, asked to go to border and pay up, and so far not one story that this ever happened!

Even with having been in hospital and all related paperwork a belgium friend of mine was told to go to the border and pay the overstay fine.

I'm glad he wasn't atthe bus that got busted, cause his medical condition was rather bad, he suffered a lot from just sitting in the bus, and I doubt he would have gotten off well from a week in various prisons.

George, I am aware that immigration officers can do or refuse to do whatever they feel like, but is there anything like a legal path for them to service a foreigner in the way you suggested?

Sunny