Opposition M P Denies Avoiding Military Service: Thailand

[webfact]

Opposition MP denies avoiding military service

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party MP Sirichok Sopha, who represents Songkhla, yesterday denied dodging the draft after a general filed a complaint to the Defence Ministry accusing Sirichok and deputy party leader Korn Chatikavanij of escaping military conscription.

"The government is adopting an evil tactic to intimidate, discredit and distract the opposition from grilling ministers in the censure debate. I noticed that they either accuse us of dodging the draft or falsifying Sor Dor 43 documents. But we are not perturbed and will continue to perform our duty and are ready to be scrutinised,'' he said.

Sirichok said the report that he dodged the draft in Songkhla was wrong because he was born in Bangkok and was required to report for conscription in Pathum Wan district. However, the Civil Service Commission had granted him a Sor Dor 43 document 20 years ago that exempted him from military duty, he said.

According to a Defence Ministry source, the ministry panel that ruled to dismiss Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva from the Army Reserve, strip him of his military rank and recall his military salary has forwarded its resolution to the Ombudsman.

The panel has also received a request from an unspecified general to check whether Korn and Sirichok had evaded the draft or held falsified documents involving conscription.

The source said Korn was domiciled with Bangkok's Infantry Battalion of the 11th Army Circle and Sirichok with Songkhla's Infantry Battalion of the 42nd Army Circle. Both left Thailand for the United Kingdom to study in high school and a university and did not return to the country to attend the draft. They sought exemptions till they were beyond the legal age for compulsory service.

The Defence Ministry's panel has contacted both military units to see whether the two Democrats had committed offences as alleged.

-- The Nation 2012-11-15

[Thai at Heart]

This could be fun to watch.

[zakk9]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

[Buchholz]

Democrat Party MP Sirichok Sopha, who represents Songkhla, yesterday denied dodging the draft after a general filed a complaint to the Defence Ministry accusing Sirichok and deputy party leader Korn Chatikavanij of escaping military conscription.

a request from an unspecified general

Was it General Chaisit Shinawatra?

.

[Buchholz]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

.

[Thaddeus]

This could be fun to watch.

Indeed, those that point fingers need to be squeaky clean themselves.

Sand-pit stuff.

[Fozfromoz]

This could be fun to watch.

Indeed, those that point fingers need to be squeaky clean themselves.

Sand-pit stuff.

Every one finger pointed, there's three coming back.

[GentlemanJim]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

That's democratic then

[Noistar]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

That's democratic then

Yep

Use democracy to destroy democracy. What could be more democratic than that?

[asiawatcher]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

That's democratic then

Dear old Weng is really losing the plot n'est ce pas? Time to

Edited November 15, 2012 by asiawatcher

[geriatrickid]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

[monkfish]

This could be a good way to thin out the political landscape and get rid of the dishonest.

Wonder what percentage of politicians avoided conscript?

As Mark always says everyone has to follow "The Rule Law".

[zakk9]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

If the objective was to clean up the landscape and get rid of dishonest politicians, that would be fine, but it clearly isn't.

[rixalex]

Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

A senior political figure using the military to carry out their dirty work would obviously be wrong period, and the matter of their own service or lack thereof would be somewhat academic and trivial by comparison. Unless you are arguing that senior political figures who didn't avoid service be allowed use of the military for dirty work.

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Near mutiny? Where do you get that from?

Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

Based on what? All we have so far is Abhisit, opposition leader, being stripped of rank by a committee, not a court of law, put together by the present government, so no agenda there whatsoever, and some as yet completely unsubstantiated finger pointing at other Dem MPs. And this is enough for you to conclude that the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country. ??? Sounds like PTP really struggled and worked hard to convince you..... not.

[Thai at Heart]

This could be fun to watch.

Indeed, those that point fingers need to be squeaky clean themselves.

Sand-pit stuff.

I was waiting for Korn's name to be thrown into the pit, not saying that he did or didn't serve. I wonder where the PTP high rankers spent their military service?

It is so common for wealthy families to avoid, and of course, daddy and a few strings pulled sorts it out. It does raise a very simple issue about doing one's duty. You either did it or you didn't.

Of course there are going to be loads of MP's on all sides incriminated in this if anyone bothers to dig. Maybe they can institute a latecomers boot camp for say 6 weeks to serve. Now that would be worth watching.

[hellodolly]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

Good one GK being in the army is serving your country and being a P M is not.

Did you ever stop to think that being in the army is not serving the country it is just a free room and board with some cash thrown in extra. Can't quite remember Thailand being under attack except when they decided they wanted a few worthless acres of land that had been awarded to Cambodia 50 years ago and had no impact on either country or the people living in the area until Cambodia decided it should be a world heritage site. Thailand decided it was time to cause an armed conflict with that being the reason.

[hellodolly]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

If the objective was to clean up the landscape and get rid of dishonest politicians, that would be fine, but it clearly isn't.

Not being as politically astute as most people are all I see is a attempt to avoid being responsible for the actions the current government is taking.

If I was the one calling the shots and being innocent of all allegations I would not try to doge them I would face them and then make allegations towards the people who had attacked me but as I say I am not politically astute.

[hellodolly]

Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

A senior political figure using the military to carry out their dirty work would obviously be wrong period, and the matter of their own service or lack thereof would be somewhat academic and trivial by comparison. Unless you are arguing that senior political figures who didn't avoid service be allowed use of the military for dirty work.

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Near mutiny? Where do you get that from?

Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

Based on what? All we have so far is Abhisit, opposition leader, being stripped of rank by a committee, not a court of law, put together by the present government, so no agenda there whatsoever, and some as yet completely unsubstantiated finger pointing at other Dem MPs. And this is enough for you to conclude that the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country. ??? Sounds like PTP really struggled and worked hard to convince you..... not.

He probably believes that some thing like that would never happen it the Thaksin PT party and if it did it would have been OK because the person involved was different.

Edited November 15, 2012 by hellodolly

[Buchholz]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

My point relates to the post I quoted.

The one that highlights the one-sidedness of the Pheu Thai attack on opposition leadership. These attacks are aimed at attempting to eradicate the party as the Red Shirt Leader Out On Bail is prompting for.

If the Pheu Thai Party is willing to undergo the same scrutiny, then let's go for it.

Let's take an equal look at all 650 members of both the House and Senate in a fair (and non-"double standard") manner.

Until such time, we are left with your uneven claim, "the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country."

.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

If the objective was to clean up the landscape and get rid of dishonest politicians, that would be fine, but it clearly isn't.

Ditto.

.

[scorecard]

Dear G'kid, you wrote: ".....Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the.... "

Please provide some support for your statement, especially your words about 'near mutiny'?

[Pimay1]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

That's democratic then

Dear old Weng is really losing the plot n'est ce pas? Time to

We would all loose the plot if we had to wake up every morning and look at Thida.

[thaicbr]

Almost all Mi-so / Hi-so boys miss conscription now simply because they do Army cadets from Mattayom 4.5.6.

Only middle class and above tend to able to.keep their kids in school for high school.

I wonder who brought that rule in.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

[geriatrickid]

Dear G'kid, you wrote: ".....Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the.... "

Please provide some support for your statement, especially your words about 'near mutiny'?

The Queens Guards were brought in after the general staff officers did not forcefully confront the protestors.

The same units implicated in previous military coups were involved in the confrontations following the replacement of the general staff officers with Queens Guard units. The concern was that the general staff officers were dragging their feet and resisting physical engagement with the protestors. This has been extensively reported.

Edited November 15, 2012 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

My point relates to the post I quoted.

The one that highlights the one-sidedness of the Pheu Thai attack on opposition leadership. These attacks are aimed at attempting to eradicate the party as the Red Shirt Leader Out On Bail is prompting for.

If the Pheu Thai Party is willing to undergo the same scrutiny, then let's go for it.

Let's take an equal look at all 650 members of both the House and Senate in a fair (and non-"double standard") manner.

Until such time, we are left with your uneven claim, "the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country."

.

Feel free to go down the list of PTP leadership and identify those that evaded their national service.

You will be sorely disappointed. National service is one common feature of many in the PTP leadership and it is a shared mutual experience that binds some of them. National service does not necessarily mean army service. It includes service in the navy, air force, police and fire service. (Bet you didn't know that the fire service comes under the police administration as part of the security organization.) As well, successful completeion of the officer training program while in school also satisfies the national service requirement. Look at the top officials of the PTP in the House. They all did service. The Deputy PMs, did it and some are so proud of their national service they have retained their ranks.

The likelihood of PTP leadership having greater complaince should not come as a surprise as a career in the military or police was seen as a prudent career advancement strategy, because it provided a way of sidestepping the entrenched oligarchy of families that control much of Thailand's wealth. Yes, some PTP leaders have built up some wealth, but their assets pale in comparison to the families that dominate the ranks of the Democrat party. A career in the public service was a way of to get ahead. Many leaders of the Democrat party did not need a leg up as they already had their positions virtually assured. One need only look at Abhisit's political career. He neer worked in the private sector, and did a cursory stint as a teacher before being parachuted into a safe seat.

[OzMick]

Dear G'kid, you wrote: ".....Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the.... "

Please provide some support for your statement, especially your words about 'near mutiny'?

The Queens Guards were brought in after the general staff officers did not forcefully confront the protestors.

The same units implicated in previous military coups were involved in the confrontations following the replacement of the general staff officers with Queens Guard units. The concern was that the general staff officers were dragging their feet and resisting physical engagement with the protestors. This has been extensively reported.

In your mind a unit rotation equates to a near mutiny?

Being caught holding a sheet of plastic and a stick is very demoralising when the opposition turns out not to be "peaceful protesters" but a group of heavily armed insurgents. It also tends to cause anger both at the opposition and the troops own commanders, so in order to maintain good order and discipline, those troops should be rotated out ASAP. Mutiny my Rs.

Edited November 15, 2012 by OzMick

[Buchholz]

My point relates to the post I quoted.

The one that highlights the one-sidedness of the Pheu Thai attack on opposition leadership. These attacks are aimed at attempting to eradicate the party as the Red Shirt Leader Out On Bail is prompting for.

If the Pheu Thai Party is willing to undergo the same scrutiny, then let's go for it.

Let's take an equal look at all 650 members of both the House and Senate in a fair (and non-"double standard") manner.

Until such time, we are left with your uneven claim, "the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country."

.

Feel free to go down the list of PTP leadership and identify those that evaded their national service.

You will be sorely disappointed. National service is one common feature of many in the PTP leadership and it is a shared mutual experience that binds some of them. National service does not necessarily mean army service. It includes service in the navy, air force, police and fire service. (Bet you didn't know that the fire service comes under the police administration as part of the security organization.) As well, successful completeion of the officer training program while in school also satisfies the national service requirement. Look at the top officials of the PTP in the House. They all did service. The Deputy PMs, did it and some are so proud of their national service they have retained their ranks.

The likelihood of PTP leadership having greater complaince should not come as a surprise as a career in the military or police was seen as a prudent career advancement strategy, because it provided a way of sidestepping the entrenched oligarchy of families that control much of Thailand's wealth. Yes, some PTP leaders have built up some wealth, but their assets pale in comparison to the families that dominate the ranks of the Democrat party. A career in the public service was a way of to get ahead. Many leaders of the Democrat party did not need a leg up as they already had their positions virtually assured. One need only look at Abhisit's political career. He neer worked in the private sector, and did a cursory stint as a teacher before being parachuted into a safe seat.

If it's all just the same to you, rather than the GeriatricKid Commission, or even your proposed Buchholz Committee for that matter, looking into my quoted "all 650 members," I'd prefer some other group do so.

Preferably one willing to spend more than 20 minutes.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Buchholz

[scorecard]

Dear G'kid, you wrote: ".....Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the.... "

Please provide some support for your statement, especially your words about 'near mutiny'?

The Queens Guards were brought in after the general staff officers did not forcefully confront the protestors.

The same units implicated in previous military coups were involved in the confrontations following the replacement of the general staff officers with Queens Guard units. The concern was that the general staff officers were dragging their feet and resisting physical engagement with the protestors. This has been extensively reported.

In your mind a unit rotation equates to a near mutiny?

Being caught holding a sheet of plastic and a stick is very demoralising when the opposition turns out not to be "peaceful protesters" but a group of heavily armed insurgents. It also tends to cause anger both at the opposition and the troops own commanders, so in order to maintain good order and discipline, those troops should be rotated out ASAP. Mutiny my Rs.

Plus g'kid, you tried to link your so called 'mutiny' to draft avoiders, plus you say the ptp guys "....all did service...." I guess you thought nobody would notice, your caught again g'kid!

Also, please provide some evidence for your big statement that the ptp guys "....all did service...."

Edited November 15, 2012 by scorecard

[Pimay1]

Dear G'kid, you wrote: ".....Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the.... "

Please provide some support for your statement, especially your words about 'near mutiny'?

The Queens Guards were brought in after the general staff officers did not forcefully confront the protestors.

The same units implicated in previous military coups were involved in the confrontations following the replacement of the general staff officers with Queens Guard units. The concern was that the general staff officers were dragging their feet and resisting physical engagement with the protestors. This has been extensively reported.

In your mind a unit rotation equates to a near mutiny?

Being caught holding a sheet of plastic and a stick is very demoralising when the opposition turns out not to be "peaceful protesters" but a group of heavily armed insurgents. It also tends to cause anger both at the opposition and the troops own commanders, so in order to maintain good order and discipline, those troops should be rotated out ASAP. Mutiny my Rs.

Plus g'kid, you tried to link your so called 'mutiny' to draft avoiders, I guess you thought nobody would notice, your caught again g'kid!

Not hard to do.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand on the path towards becoming a one-party-state. Removing prominent members of the oposition from the political landscape is step one. I wouldn't be surprised if in ten years, Myanmar and Malaysia are the only true democratic nations in the region.

Pheu Thai MP and Red-Shirt Leader Weng Tojirakarn yesterday called on fellow red shirts to eradicate the Democrat Party

http://www.thaivisa....d/#entry5396917

.

How does your post relate to the MPs avoiding military service? Don't you think there is something fundamentally wrong with senior political figures avoiding service, but very willing to use the military to carry out their dirty work?

Can you understand now, why there was a near mutiny in the ranks at the time of the Bangkok uprising?

Those that do their service have no respect for those that obtain deferments or avoid service altogether. It doesn't matter which party it is, Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country.

My point relates to the post I quoted.

The one that highlights the one-sidedness of the Pheu Thai attack on opposition leadership. These attacks are aimed at attempting to eradicate the party as the Red Shirt Leader Out On Bail is prompting for.

If the Pheu Thai Party is willing to undergo the same scrutiny, then let's go for it.

Let's take an equal look at all 650 members of both the House and Senate in a fair (and non-"double standard") manner.

Until such time, we are left with your uneven claim, "the Democrats seem to have many in its leadership ranks that didn't serve their country."

.

Then I would love to see their income tax declarations...... All and everyone of them, and the Senate.