Pitak Siam Rally Security A Major Headache For Thai Govt

[webfact]

Pitak Siam rally security a major headache for govt

Attayuth Bootsripoom

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Yingluck Shinawatra administration's concerns about next week's scheduled anti-government rally by Pitak Siam seem to be increasing daily. One clear sign of this is the change in attitude of Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, who is known to command a large intelligence network.

Before the group's first rally on October 28, it was dismissed as being likely to draw only a small number of people. But more than 10,000 showed up, dealing a slap in the face to intelligence officers.

Emboldened, Pitak Siam leader General Boonlert Kaewprasit declared that either he or the government would have to go after his group's second rally on November 24.

Although it took a little time, Chalerm has now ordered the highest level of preparation for the rally, including the deployment of 50,000 police officers to maintain order. In the meantime, he has ordered National Police chief General Adul Saengsingkaew to take charge of the situation personally.

Adul himself can draw on lessons from the past. He has asked the government to invoke the Internal Security Act, not only to give the officers a mandate to manage the situation more aggressively, such as by announcing area or weapons restrictions, but also to allow him to request military support in the event of serious incidents or emergencies.

More important, the imposition of the law would establish a hierarchy of command. Responsibility would fall not only on the operating officers. The previous government of Abhisit Vejjajiva imposed the act just befpre the red shirts' rally in March 2010, before elevating the security situation to an emergency decree.

At Parliament, closed-circuit cameras have been installed while vans and emergency ladders have been prepared in case Prime Minister Yingluck, ministers and MPs need to be evacuated.

The question is, what is frightening the government so badly? Has the government received some sort of signal?

The estimated numbers of protesters planning to attend vary according to the source, but at a minimum, 50,000 are expected. The Royal Plaza cannot contain that many protesters, and they will likely spill over to occupy an area stretching as far as Parliament House, where the censure debate is scheduled to start on November 25, the day after the rally starts.

The protesters will include the "old faces" who joined previous anti-Thaksin rallies, and the "newcomers", potentially including middle-class voters who have lost patience with the government or Thai politics in general, as well as farmers disappointed in the government's administration.

A large turnout itself might not be a problem, so long as the protest goes peacefully. A bigger worry is possible interference by a third party with an agenda, which could create an emergency.

The government might be less worried about Boonlert's group than about other groups secretly supporting the protesters. It must also keep an eye on the red shirts, who are preparing counter-protest mobs in Bangkok's adjacent provinces.

The government cannot be blamed for taking precautions and making preparations. But there is a danger that heavy-handed measures could backfire and instigate more people to come out.

The more people who show up, the greater the chance for ill-intentioned people to cause incidents.

At the moment, the protesters might have the advantage. Assuming the government is not ousted, if the rally goes peacefully, the people can gear up for the next rally. The government on the other hand will be responsible if any violence occurs.

Reading the situation wisely while preparing thoroughly will be the only way out for the government.

-- The Nation 2012-11-17

[webfact]

Thai authorities jittery as anti-government rally nears

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Nov 17 - Security agencies concerned about the upcoming Pitak Siam anti-government rally will meet Monday at Government House in a meeting to be chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubumrung as the Nov 24 protest date draws nearer.

Secretary general Paradorn Pattanathabutr of the National Security Council (NSC) said today that the meeting will evaluate the scale of the rally and crowd-control measures to deal with the demonstrators, initially estimated at 50,000-60,000 people.

Police will exercise the Korakot Plan in handling the crowd, he said. The plan gives detailed guidelines for taking demonstrators into custody -- from bare-handed arrests, using handcuffs, tear gas and more. It clearly assigns responsibilities to specific officers to control the crowd.

Lt-Gen Paradorn said it has yet to be decided whether the National Security Act will be imposed during the political action, adding that it will mainly depend on the size of the crowd.

He said safety measures will be reinforced in areas near the demonstration, the Royal Plaza, including checks for weapons to prevent a third party from infiltrating the rally.

Security officials spoke with retired Gen Boonlert Kaewprasit, the Pitak Siam leader, who promised to closely supervise the crowd and to maintain order.

Opposition Red Shirt supporters have been instructed to not demonstrate in response and to otherwise avoid confrontation, he said. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-11-17

[asiawatcher]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

[jayboy]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

[Noistar]

What with people having the audacity to question the actions of the ruling party, and the Government's attempts to stop that happening, it is small wonder the ruling party have no time to consider the good of Thailand.

We won the election - full stop.

Unfortunately democratic Goverment is what happens between elections.

I, like many, hope the rally passes peacefully. However, given the ruling party's jitters about anything akin to criticism, things may not turn out that way.

When will Thailand be on the government's agenda, let alone the main part?

[fareastguy]

Reading the situation wisely while preparing thoroughly will be the only way out for the government.

Two things that the government have proven they don't have the capability of !!

[ridkun]

They have right to rally peacefully, yet I wonder if they really have right to "freeze" the democracy and call for once again coup d'état?

[otherstuff1957]

I don't see what the government is so worried about. After all, they asked the ICC to investigate the incidents of 2010, not anthing that happened before or after.

[waza]

"The question is, what is frightening the government so badly? Has the government received some sort of signal?"

A strong show of force in numbers from the protestors will put the Governments mandate in question. It will show the poor peformance, myopic view and lack of follow through with their promises from the PTP has lost them a lot of support.

[whybother]

"The question is, what is frightening the government so badly? Has the government received some sort of signal?"

A strong show of force in numbers from the protestors will put the Governments mandate in question. It will show the poor peformance, myopic view and lack of follow through with their promises from the PTP has lost them a lot of support.

Getting 50,000 people protesting doesn't change a mandate gained from 15,000,000 voters.

It does highlight the poor performance and other issues with this government though.

[Moruya]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

If a doddering old fool can inspire many times the attendance of the mercenary Red Shirts then that speaks volumes

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[OzMick]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

Restrained and mature red shirts? Oh, I see - it's only an "appearance."

[nurofiend]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

Restrained and mature red shirts? Oh, I see - it's only an "appearance."

"Restrained and mature red shirts?"

It suits some to select the least acceptable label and apply it to all in an opposition group

[Ned]

Things might really be hotting up a lot more than many farang realise. The headline of today's Thai Rath (the largest selling newspaper) has the following interesting headline:

" Khwanchai (member of anti govt group) Reveals the Mob's (his mob that is) Plan:

Arrest the PM!.......Burn the Parliament Building!.......... Seize Govt House!!

Create the Conditions for a Coup!

Provoke the Reds to Gather Their Forces for an Attack!"

Thought some of you might find this interesting. Nothing newsworthy of course in the English language press......as usual.

[Moruya]

Things might really be hotting up a lot more than many farang realise. The headline of today's Thai Rath (the largest selling newspaper) has the following interesting headline:

" Khwanchai (member of anti govt group) Reveals the Mob's (his mob that is) Plan:

Arrest the PM!.......Burn the Parliament Building!.......... Seize Govt House!!

Create the Conditions for a Coup!

Provoke the Reds to Gather Their Forces for an Attack!"

Thought some of you might find this interesting. Nothing newsworthy of course in the English language press......as usual.

Kwanchai (or is it Chankwai?) Is a Red Shirt leader - pro-government.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Ned]

My apologies.

I was getting this Khwanchai fellow confused with a member of the Feudalist group with a similar name. I think the honourable thing for me to do now is to jump from my balcony.

[OzMick]

Things might really be hotting up a lot more than many farang realise. The headline of today's Thai Rath (the largest selling newspaper) has the following interesting headline:

" Khwanchai (member of anti govt group) Reveals the Mob's (his mob that is) Plan:

Arrest the PM!.......Burn the Parliament Building!.......... Seize Govt House!!

Create the Conditions for a Coup!

Provoke the Reds to Gather Their Forces for an Attack!"

Thought some of you might find this interesting. Nothing newsworthy of course in the English language press......as usual.

It does sound eerily like the red rabble-rousing of 2010. I wonder why?

Hint - because it is coming from one of the red rabble-rousers of 2010 trying to sow fear and apprehension.

Provoke the red shirts to attack? That would be those red shirts who are gathering prepared to attack? What massive provocation do you think will be necessary to ignite them into action (again)?

don't jump, Ned!

Edited November 17, 2012 by OzMick

[OzMick]

Actually it appears that many attendees at the previous Pitak Siam rally , particularly from the provinces were paid a modest per dime.Unlike the usual suspects I wouldn't for a moment suggest they were attending for mercenary reasons,

Ten whole cents! that 's nearly 3 baht.

[jayboy]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

If a doddering old fool can inspire many times the attendance of the mercenary Red Shirts then that speaks volumes

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Actually it appears that many attendees at the previous Pitak Siam rally , particularly from the provinces were paid a modest per diem.Unlike the usual suspects I wouldn't for a moment suggest they were attending for mercenary reasons.

I have no idea which faction can get the more people out.Nor do I think it particularly important.We already know both factions represent significant opinion in the Kingdom.

Having said that there's no doubt the Pitak Siam leadership is seriously disreputable, with a grotesque lie at the centre of its platform.I have no problem with those who campaign against a Thaksin whitewash but the Pitak Siam platform goes well beyond that into extreme reactionary politics.

[Moruya]

My apologies.

I was getting this Khwanchai fellow confused with a member of the Feudalist group with a similar name. I think the honourable thing for me to do now is to jump from my balcony.

Far better to pop a Chang and laugh at the futility of we partisan Fara GS.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[rubl]

Actually it appears that many attendees at the previous Pitak Siam rally , particularly from the provinces were paid a modest per dime.Unlike the usual suspects I wouldn't for a moment suggest they were attending for mercenary reasons,

Actually you seem the first to say this. Far be it from me to suggest that it appears to give you a chance not suggest some can be bought. It's just obvious [sic] your source of information is better than mine. Would you care to elaborate on why it 'appears' ?

[GentlemanJim]

Pitak Siam rally security a major headache for govt

I warrant the headache is not as big as it would be if 100 000 people were to barricade themselves in the city center and invade hospitals and bring the local business and trade community to its knees, all the time holding 24/7 brain washing on stage rally's and causing physical damage and harm to the city and its occupants.

I hope as the OP suggests that the Police Chief will be able to apply 'lessons learned' to this security issue, but is seems a shame that there will be no lessons to apply from the red invasion of Bangkok in 2010, because the police were no where to be seen for almost a month.

[rubl]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

Change a few names and we're talking about 2010. Where is Robert A. when you need him

[scorecard]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

Change a few names and we're talking about 2010. Where is Robert A. when you need him

Well jayboy you can make your statements like "... a doddering old fool..." but IMHO there are many who are ready to support anything which could / might bring this out of control / highly corruption government to a halt or push it to get more focused, show more morals, etc. Whether they (as a total body of people support a coup, is a different question.

[Ned]

I think both sides in this continuing, post 1932 struggle must come together and kill each other in massive numbers. ......and then move on. It's happened many times before in that period and life went on. There is rice in the fields and fish in the streams.

[scorecard]

I wonder if there are any major injuries or (hopefully not) deaths, will the Govt call for DSI to investigate? But you can bet there will be Govt supporters interspersed within the crowd to cause problems. The Govt will do anything it can to turn this protest into something other than a non violent demonstration and painting these people as trouble makers or violent will well be on its agenda. The Red Shirts proved they were capable of anything and 'dirty tricks' during their demonstration so things here could escalate easily into problems if a catalyst is added (by the Govt).

Really? Government provocateurs to make Pitak Siam look bad, as though PS isn't alkready doing that itself very effectively.No real mileage in hypothetical comments since the event hasn't yed happened.However at this stage it is the government and redshirts that appear restrained and mature.Monitor the comments of General Boonlert for the PS position but based on his pronouncements so far his worst enemies couldn't do a better job in making him look like a doddering old fool.

Change a few names and we're talking about 2010. Where is Robert A. when you need him

Well jayboy you can make your statements like "... a doddering old fool..." but IMHO there are many who are ready to support anything which could / might bring this out of control / highly corruption government to a halt or push it to get more focused, show more morals, etc. Whether they (as a total body of people support a coup, is a different question.

Connection problem and too late to use the edit function. I rewrote my post above, as follows:

Well jayboy you can make your nasty negative statements.

I suspect many of the generals followers are hoping that numbers is what will generate enough power to bring this out of control / highly corruption government (gang of thieves) to a halt or push it to get more focused, show more morals, etc.

Whether they would all, or even 20% of them (as a total body of people), support a coup, is a different question which at this point is unanswered. Maybe many would?

[OzMick]

Actually it appears that many attendees at the previous Pitak Siam rally , particularly from the provinces were paid a modest per diem.Unlike the usual suspects I wouldn't for a moment suggest they were attending for mercenary reasons.

I have no idea which faction can get the more people out.Nor do I think it particularly important.We already know both factions represent significant opinion in the Kingdom.

Having said that there's no doubt the Pitak Siam leadership is seriously disreputable, with a grotesque lie at the centre of its platform.I have no problem with those who campaign against a Thaksin whitewash but the Pitak Siam platform goes well beyond that into extreme reactionary politics.

Do you have link in regard to this modest payment? Something like a video of Thaksin saying "you got your B500" would be fine, much better than my friend told me he saw it on Red TV.

Could you also explain the grotesque lie to which you refer? One person's grotesque lie may well turn out to be another's inconvenient fact.

[jayboy]

Actually it appears that many attendees at the previous Pitak Siam rally , particularly from the provinces were paid a modest per dime.Unlike the usual suspects I wouldn't for a moment suggest they were attending for mercenary reasons,

Ten whole cents! that 's nearly 3 baht.

Have no idea how much they received.None of their political opponents have raised objections as far as I know anway.However you can bet your bottom dollar that if redshirt rally members received any contribution at all the usual suspects would be arguing their motives were purely mercenary (indeed that's precisely what they do argue)

[jayboy]

Could you also explain the grotesque lie to which you refer?

No.It would be against forum rules.However please see my cut out and keep guide below.

1.Obtain details of Pitak Siam political views.

2.Study those views.

3.Identify grotesque lie in those views.

4.Consider why that particular grotesque lie is included.

5.Reflect.

[jayboy]

Actually it appears that many attendees at the previous Pitak Siam rally , particularly from the provinces were paid a modest per dime.Unlike the usual suspects I wouldn't for a moment suggest they were attending for mercenary reasons,

Actually you seem the first to say this. Far be it from me to suggest that it appears to give you a chance not suggest some can be bought. It's just obvious [sic] your source of information is better than mine. Would you care to elaborate on why it 'appears' ?

My information does seem to be better than yours.Only recently you surprised me by stating in capital letters that the current political difficulties are all about Thaksin.Surprising because although we have differing political views I frankly did not expect this rather bone headed mantra from you.The most intelligent Democrats like Abhisit and Korn, much though they loathe the man would certainly not take this view.It's akin to saying the Russian Revolution was all about Lenin, as though the conditions permitting the upheaval did not exist.Be aware that"cause" and "catalyst" are different concepts, and that similar upheavals have occurred before Thaksin and no doubt will after him.

As to the funding of expenses I think this was quite widely reported, specifically for those who came from the provinces.It's a non issue - the amount was small and nobody is suggesting attendees were "bussed in" or didn't want to be there.