Obama's Chance To Shift The Thai Stance

[webfact]

Obama's Chance to Shift the Thai Stance

Written by Pavin Chachavalpongpun

America needs to take a critical look at the repressive tactics of Thailand's old elites

BANGKOK: -- The newly re-elected US President Barack Obama kicks off his second term with his first foreign visit to Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand from 17-20 November.

While much attention is paid to his role at the East Asia Summit in Phnom Penh and his first visit to Myanmar—indeed the first ever visit by a US President—his trip to Bangkok has so far gained little interest from either Washington or the world of media.

Perhaps it is because the two countries have long enjoyed intimate relations. Thailand is the US’s oldest ally in the Asia-Pacific, and was offered the status of a major non-NATO ally in 2004. Both have engaged in the biggest and longest running military exercise in the region, called “Cobra Gold.” Bilateral ties are generally strong, so strong that Thailand may have been taken for granted.

In the meantime, the US has been rather quiet even when the Thai domestic situation turned violent, particularly in the past few years. Why has the US failed to promote democratization in Thailand?

The answer is that the American perception of the current power struggle in Thailand is strictly constrained by an old, obsolete structure in which Thai-US relations have been shaped and dominated by the effective military-monarchy partnership and the various American interests in the maintenance of such a partnership. As a result, the US has appeared to adopt a stance of support for establishment forces at the expense of a serious advocacy of the pro-democracy agenda of the Red Shirt movement, known principally as the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, or UDD. [more...]

Full story: http://www.asiasenti...4978&Itemid=185

-- Asia Sentinel 2012-11-17

[keemapoot]

It seems to me, that Obama making Thailand an important stop on this trip when most world media don't consider Thailand that important on this trip, I think it may signal some tacit acceptance by the U.S. of the staying power of Thailand's new "democratic order" under the Shinawatra clan. As far as serious advocacy of the Red Shirt movement?...not so much.

[pomchop]

It seems to me, that Obama making Thailand an important stop on this trip when most world media don't consider Thailand that important on this trip, I think it may signal some tacit acceptance by the U.S. of the staying power of Thailand's new "democratic order" under the Shinawatra clan. As far as serious advocacy of the Red Shirt movement?...not so much.

US presidents visiting Thailand is not all that unusual.

However, Obama is the first sitting president ever to visit Burma or Cambodia.

Thailand has had ties to the U.S. since the 1960s and Obama will be the fifth U.S. president to visit the Kingdom. Travel records show that Lyndon Johnson made visits in both 1966 and 1967, Richard Nixon toured Thailand in 1969, Bill Clinton visited in 1996, and George W. Bush came to Thailand twice during his presidencies, in 2003 and again in 2008.

[JurgenG]

I completely disagree with this article. America's reaction during the dark years of 2006-2011 has probably been one of the main reason why democracy is back in Thailand.

The USA first sent a clear message after the coup when they downgraded their relation with Thailand and the junta, informing the top generals that the cozy relation they enjoy with the american army will suffer greatly if they didn't go back to their barrack. Then when democracy was eventually restored after the election of July 2011, by welcoming Yingluck government with open arms and welcoming back Thailand in the international community.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Scott

[Payboy]

So it's not just a refueling stop on his Cambodia & Burma trip then?

[jayboy]

I completely disagree with this article. America's reaction during the dark years of 2006-2011 has probably been one of the main reason why democracy is back in Thailand.

The USA first sent a clear message after the coup when they downgraded their relation with Thailand and the junta, informing the top generals that the cozy relation they enjoy with the american army will suffer greatly if they didn't go back to their barrack. Then when democracy was eventually restored after the election of July 2011, by welcoming Yingluck government with open arms and welcoming back Thailand in the international community.

On the contrary this is an excellent article which very clearly sets out the mistakes of the American position in the early aftermath of the coup, largely based on the bizarre advice of a former US Ambassador.The background is clearly set out in Wikileaks for those who are interested.It seems however now that American policy is firmly back on track with a commitment to those in Thailand who value democracy.Having said that diplomacy isn't just based on morality and US/China rivalry in the region may be a factor in a future American policy to Thailand.

[fareastguy]

America will continue to use Thailand for it's own benefits, as for the internal politics it probably isn't very interested.

If Thailand goes under with the present regime it will shift it's focus & military planing to adjacent locations.

[scorecard]

It seems to me, that Obama making Thailand an important stop on this trip when most world media don't consider Thailand that important on this trip, I think it may signal some tacit acceptance by the U.S. of the staying power of Thailand's new "democratic order" under the Shinawatra clan. As far as serious advocacy of the Red Shirt movement?...not so much.

".... I think it may signal some tacit acceptance by the U.S. of the staying power of Thailand's new "democratic order" under the Shinawatra clan...."

'Tacit acceptance' is one way to put it.

'Put up with them', until something more democratic appears would be another way to put it.

The US would see itself as the world champion of democracy and no doubt has a continuous stream of information and analysis of what's happening (in regard to the building and maintaining of democracy) in most countries in the world, and especially in regard to it's key military / security allies.

IMHO the US would not currently see Thailand as having anything close to a balanced picture of actual democracy and would probably have some concerns that's it's going in the wrong direction.

Keep in mind that the writer of this piece has clearly shown his support for the paymaster on many occasions.

[jcw]

BKK or DM airports to be effected for travels?

[asiawatcher]

America will continue to use Thailand for it's own benefits, as for the internal politics it probably isn't very interested.

If Thailand goes under with the present regime it will shift it's focus & military planing to adjacent locations.

Exactly - and the US never does anything unless there is some benefit to the US. Take Iraq as opposed to Rawanda. Genocide in both but only one had economic value to the US and that is its only motivation.

[LuckyLew]

Thailand is just a polite stop over between Burma and Cambodia

If Thailand was not in the middle of these two I doubt Obama would

make the stop

[123thaibourbon]

President Obama should definitely reach out to ASEAN in whatever way possible. SE Asia remains a strategically diverse region. Thailand and 'China' have mutual economic relationships. The PRC CCCCP is 80m strong. The Thai elite are usually highly educated and some families lay claim as descendants of royal lineages.. In America today, the 99/47% may not tolerate the disparity of actual wealth and bi-partisan struggle. This Superclass order pervades the global condition. In 1967, Dr. Lomax wrote a book entitled: THAILAND The War That Is and The War That Will Be. Lomax and Democracy entered the Thai hinterlands by default.

Edited November 17, 2012 by metisdead
: Formatting

[smedly]

It seems to me, that Obama making Thailand an important stop on this trip when most world media don't consider Thailand that important on this trip, I think it may signal some tacit acceptance by the U.S. of the staying power of Thailand's new "democratic order" under the Shinawatra clan. As far as serious advocacy of the Red Shirt movement?...not so much.

All these calls (by Thais) for Obama to interfere in Thai affairs is beyond comprehension, Thai internal affairs have got absolutly nothing to do with a foreign President, it sounds like a pile of deranged 1st year school kids asking a 6th year for help in the playground - <deleted>

and the only reason Thailand is seen as "worth a visit" is because it sits right next door to China and of course who is coming to dinner the week after ?????

[Hugo6]

America will continue to use Thailand for it's own benefits, as for the internal politics it probably isn't very interested.

If Thailand goes under with the present regime it will shift it's focus & military planing to adjacent locations.

Exactly - and the US never does anything unless there is some benefit to the US. Take Iraq as opposed to Rawanda. Genocide in both but only one had economic value to the US and that is its only motivation.

and the US never does anything unless there is some benefit to the US.

well, so you're right. but it is the basic starting point for every country. Thailand is no different. your country is no different.

[Unkomoncents]

America will continue to use Thailand for it's own benefits, as for the internal politics it probably isn't very interested.

If Thailand goes under with the present regime it will shift it's focus & military planing to adjacent locations.

Exactly - and the US never does anything unless there is some benefit to the US. Take Iraq as opposed to Rawanda. Genocide in both but only one had economic value to the US and that is its only motivation.

If you were running a country, would you be working for the benefit of other countries before your own? I am always shocked by the crowd that seems to believe the US, and only the US, should be in the business of saving the world exclusive of its own interests. Then, those very same people, in the same breath, criticize the US for interfering with other countries. Damned if America does; damned if America does not. The workings of the human mind are certainly a marvel.

[JSixpack]

I think it'd be nice if Obama put in a word for the expats, like owning property here same as Thais can own in the USA and ending the practice of dual pricing.

Not that I imagine for a second that he will.

Edited November 17, 2012 by JSixpack

[Hugo6]

I think it'd be nice if Obama put in a word for the expats, like owning property here same as Thais can own in the USA and ending the practice of dual pricing.

Not that I imagine for a second that he will.

regarding the land issue, I understand your point. I even agree with it from my own point of view. but I think that the policy is probably got a net-positive effect for thailand and I can understand why they won't change it for a while.

[Halion]

Installation of a more transparent democracy. Self interest will be the deciding factor.

[Rancid]

As wars are winding down in Afganistan and Iraq the US is now eyeballing China, as such is rebuilding old alliances it has let slipped. The Thais will play both sides though as usual, the US is the undisputed current military power, however a lot of Thais in power now after years of perceived assimilation have Chinese blood and they still see China as both the real homeland and the power of the future.

Chinese I have spoken with have nothing but disdain for the Thais, regard them as lazy, ignorant and theives, laugh about how easy it was to take over everything, not that it seems that the Thais have woken up to that. Admitedly that was with older Chinese Thais so perhaps the current generation feels differently so I may have bad information. Not that I personally care one way or the other any way, so don't read this as an anti Chinese rant, just an observation.

[keemapoot]

however a lot of Thais in power now after years of perceived assimilation have Chinese blood and they still see China as both the real homeland and the power of the future.

Chinese I have spoken with have nothing but disdain for the Thais, regard them as lazy, ignorant and theives, laugh about how easy it was to take over everything, not that it seems that the Thais have woken up to that. Admitedly that was with older Chinese Thais so perhaps the current generation feels differently so I may have bad information.

I have done business with a number of older Thai-Chinese families, and surprisingly, they do not seem to feel that same sense of being part of the Chinese diaspora that we see in other places in Asia and elsewhere. Maybe they have assimilated for so many generations that many have lost touch with their Chinese identities, but few that I've seen speak their Chinese dialect, even among older groups. My sense is that there is not a general sense of deep cultural attachment, though of course, there is some as they do retain their Chinese identities to a large extent.

My PA, who was Thai-Chinese from an old BKK family once answered the question from some Hong Kong associates of mine: "you look like you are Chinese." She answered "I am Thai." Period. She offered no further details or seemed to have special kinship with them because of being Chinese.

I have not observed disdain by Chinese for Thai-Chinese, though in business they do consider them "slippery."

Just my observations. Others may vary...

[Old Man River]

however a lot of Thais in power now after years of perceived assimilation have Chinese blood and they still see China as both the real homeland and the power of the future.

Chinese I have spoken with have nothing but disdain for the Thais, regard them as lazy, ignorant and theives, laugh about how easy it was to take over everything, not that it seems that the Thais have woken up to that. Admitedly that was with older Chinese Thais so perhaps the current generation feels differently so I may have bad information.

I have done business with a number of older Thai-Chinese families, and surprisingly, they do not seem to feel that same sense of being part of the Chinese diaspora that we see in other places in Asia and elsewhere. Maybe they have assimilated for so many generations that many have lost touch with their Chinese identities, but few that I've seen speak their Chinese dialect, even among older groups. My sense is that there is not a general sense of deep cultural attachment, though of course, there is some as they do retain their Chinese identities to a large extent.

My PA, who was Thai-Chinese from an old BKK family once answered the question from some Hong Kong associates of mine: "you look like you are Chinese." She answered "I am Thai." Period. She offered no further details or seemed to have special kinship with them because of being Chinese.

I have not observed disdain by Chinese for Thai-Chinese, though in business they do consider them "slippery."

Just my observations. Others may vary...

I don't vary. You are 100% on target with your observations. My wife is Thai - Chinese. We were married for 5 years before I ever found out she also has a Chinese name. Upon finding this out, I said to her that she isn't Thai, she is Chinese. She responded with "Oh really? Are you an American?"

[surangw]

Will the press mention the killings in the south?

or did TOT request the do not bring it up to discourage tourism ?

[smedly]

President Obama will not lower himself to get involved in so called politics here, I'm pretty sure he doesn't really want to speak with this puppet/muppet so called government - can you imagine negotiating with Yingluck and she keeps excusing herself to go ring Dubai

thaksin got to visit the US simply because there was no reason to stop him - who did he see of any importance - nobody, in my books that was a major snubb ? he got booed off and had to leave.

stuff is going on around our little planet and slowly it is forming into a very clear us and them senario, right now we have China Iran N'Korea and probably a few other middle eastern states along with I'd guess an undecided Russia who will wait and see what they have to gain brfpre committing.

The Finacial world has colapsed, countries are going bankrupt, tensions are rising in the middle east,

+

[Markaew]

The problem with Thailand is Thailand thinks it is very important and nobody else agrees. This country is insignificant to Obama's plans. Obama's plan is to change America into a socialist country and Thailand is already there. Why bother?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[LomSak27]

Obama's plan is to change America into a socialist country and Thailand is already there. Why bother?

Amazing, I reluctantly voted for him because he is too republican, not liberal, but according to Faux News watchers he is a socialist. Any reasons or do they just get in the way

[Exsexyman]

Obama's plan is to change America into a socialist country and Thailand is already there. Why bother?

Amazing, I reluctantly voted for him because he is too republican, not liberal, but according to Faux News watchers he is a socialist. Any reasons or do they just get in the way

Any advance on Socialist? Communist anyone? Haha. I'm still laughing at the idea of Thailand being a Socialist country! There really are some strange posters on here. Still, it all adds to the gaiety of the nation!

[DocN]

Obama's plan is to change America into a socialist country and Thailand is already there. Why bother?

Amazing, I reluctantly voted for him because he is too republican, not liberal, but according to Faux News watchers he is a socialist. Any reasons or do they just get in the way

Any advance on Socialist? Communist anyone? Haha. I'm still laughing at the idea of Thailand being a Socialist country! There really are some strange posters on here. Still, it all adds to the gaiety of the nation!

Most F-News viewers just don't know the difference between "social" and "socialist"! Sad, really!

[Rich teacher]

Obama's plan is to change America into a socialist country and Thailand is already there. Why bother?

It's not quite Obama's plan, as he has been brainwashed & created by the CIA to engage in the process of promoting the new world order, in which 4/5 ths of the worlds population will be culled & the remaining turned into slaves for the ruling elites who will be living in huge underground cities with aliens.

Oh & he has also genetically engineered flying pigs.

[rakman]

America will continue to use Thailand for it's own benefits, as for the internal politics it probably isn't very interested.

If Thailand goes under with the present regime it will shift it's focus & military planing to adjacent locations.

Exactly - and the US never does anything unless there is some benefit to the US. Take Iraq as opposed to Rawanda. Genocide in both but only one had economic value to the US and that is its only motivation.

Big difference. Rwanda is not threatening its neighbors, it is fundamentally a civil war, with both sides equally bad. In Iraq, Saddam was threatening his neighbors, invaded Kuwait and was headed for Saudi Arabia. Oil for peace was a joke, and Saddam was becoming increasingly more belligerent when it became necessary to take him out. Afghanistan tacitly supported Osama, so it was time for a change there, too.

And why shouldn't the US only be involved where it has some benefit? Every country does it on some level.

Thailand has a stable if not precarious democratic government. Governments build agreements that open doors for investments by, principally, businesses.