Daughter Getting Married,his Family Won't Pay Sin Sod

[NCFC]

My daughter has been dating aThai guy for the past three years and they announced that they planned to get married next year.

He comes from an extremely rich Bangkok family - they own a hotel in Bangkok and properties scattered throughout the world.

But the boy has said to my daughter that he and his parents will not pay a satang in Sin Sod.

I said to my wife that we need to discuss this with his parents but she is reluctant because she feels 'greenjai' to these hiso people.

Later, I called the boys father and said we need to discuss the wedding, including the Sin Sod agreement. While on the phone he was polite and agreeable, but as soon as we had finished our conversation, the father called my daughter and said that I wanted money from them.

I pointed out to everybody that I was merely following a Thai custom that everybody follows, rich and poor, but they have all refused to discuss it; even my daughter is against the idea as she fears her boyfriend will back off if asked for a sum of money.

My wife agrees with me and is very upset at my daughter's and the other family's attitude, but won't do anything.

My daughter is university educated, has a good job and respectable. The boy's family would be well-known if I were to print their name, and yet they don't want to pay Sin Sod.

What can I do in this situation? Just go along with it, or what?

[thewug]

Im assuming that its not about having the money but as a sign of respect towards you, your wife and your daughter... So this would be my sudestion to you... As the are well off and that your daughter is farang and educated, that they put up the sinsod and after the wedding you return it or that the money is used in a certain way that will help you daughter and her new family....

[Bentley 7]

I find the boy's familys' attitude very disturbing, in my eyes this gesture signifies that they don't believe your daughter is good enough for them or worse that the boy and family don't see this as a serious marriage prospect. If the roles were reversed i'm sure they would be hitting you for millions. I'm sure if you came from a similar family with stature in Thailand there would be some excessive demonstration of love and devotion in the form of lavish gifts and a 9999999999 baht sinsod.

Even though you probably don't want the money for yourselves, let them buy your daughter jewelry or some sort of acknowledgement of her worth to the groom and family.

As I have no knowledge of their relationship or the merits of the boy, I would suggest you talk to your daughter as an insulting gesture such as this so early in the courtship may be an indication of the mental or even physical abuse she may be subject to later from the family and the boy. Prince Charming may turn out to be a total asshol_e.

BTW who is expected to pay for the wedding?

[thewug]

Yes i agree with Bentley.... It is a sign of disrespect for his family but more so from him... I would say RED FLAG here...

[jpinx]

Typical hiso - absolutley zero respect for you, your family and your daughter. Basically they don't think you are worth a bean.

Tell your daughter that the sinsod is money that will actually pay for the wedding and set them up in a home of their own. There is a slight chance that they might relent if they know what the money will be used for - but don't hold your breath.....

[lizardtongue]

I can see your point and in principle do agree with you but to be frank I personally think it is up to your daughter to make the decision to go ahead or not with the marriage!

What reason did the boyfriend give for his parents not wanting to follow custom and pay the sin sod?

I am assuming that you are a Westerner with a Thai wife? That being the case do you think that the fact you are a Westerner has something to do with the refusal? Or that your daughter is not 'pure' Thai?

It may prove prudent at this stage not to make too many waves and just go along with your daughters wishes, it may prove financially beneficial in the future.

Good luck.

[NCFC]

I find the boy's familys' attitude very disturbing, in my eyes this gesture signifies that they don't believe your daughter is good enough for them or worse that the boy and family don't see this as a serious marriage prospect. If the roles were reversed i'm sure they would be hitting you for millions. I'm sure if you came from a similar family with stature in Thailand there would be some excessive demonstration of love and devotion in the form of lavish gifts and a 9999999999 baht sinsod.

Even though you probably don't want the money for yourselves, let them buy your daughter jewelry or some sort of acknowledgement of her worth to the groom and family.

As I have no knowledge of their relationship or the merits of the boy, I would suggest you talk to your daughter as an insulting gesture such as this so early in the courtship may be an indication of the mental or even physical abuse she may be subject to later from the family and the boy. Prince Charming may turn out to be a total asshol_e.

BTW who is expected to pay for the wedding?

Personally, I think she is making a mistake marrying this guy. They met three years ago when she went to study her master's in Australia and he was living there too. He didn't have a regular job, just played DJ at house events while Mummy and Daddy sent him a monthly allowance from Thailand. The kids moved back to Thailand three months ago and my daughter got a job immediately while her bf kicks around doing nothing.

I advised my daughter that this guy was unsuitable marrriage material but she won't listen and I think the message may have got back to her parents, hence they don't want to have anything to do with our family.

The wedding would be paid for by my daughter's Thai godfather, who has already offered to pay for everything, as he wants to gain good face.

[jpinx]

I've got 2 adult daughters - so I've been there and through this stage. Mine are stable now, but it took some serious negotiating to get them there. Ignore the ignorant hiso's and focus on your relationship with your daughter. Whether or not you approve, she is currently in love with the guy. I hope you did lots of background work on discovering what he has been up to both in Thailand (any hidden crimes?) and Oz (did he have any real frieds there, or just spongers?) Your task ... should you wish to undertake it, is to discredit him at the emotional level. Good luck!!!! This message will self-destruct in ten seconds....9....8....7...

[Bentley 7]

This is a troubling situation, as a father I am so wary of Thai men and mixed girl relationships. Just from the 3 examples that I am aware of 2 have ended very badly, 1 with violence and the other with adultery in her own bed, both married to wealthy Thais. The 3rd married an average guy, lawyer, who cherises the ground she walks on and is an excellent provider and family man.

Often these well to do Thai guys see our daughters as trophies or something different, their version of the exotic or some sort of conquest as they are able to have almost any Thai girl they want.

I feel for you and your wife as your pride and joy may be making a mistake, I suppose all you can do is support her and try to get her to delay the ceremony, if he sticks around then he may care for her but he may also fall over and she may wake up. Ask her to take a look at the state of most hi-so or celebrity marriages and she will quickly see that often they are cold, conditional and often dehumanising relationships. Have you also considered what type of relationship you will have with your inlaws for family events etc. and if grandchildren ensue, what influence will they have on the child's upbringing?

As for the godfather paying for the ceremony, what a sweet deal for the groom's family, sorry but another mistake, their family will invite thousands to eat and drink at his cost. Can the godfather intervene or throw some clout around, if not tell him to keep his kind gift and give it to your daughter.

I wish you and your daughter luck, hopefully our assumptions are wrong and it will work out fine for all.

[thewug]

I also feel for your situation... I myself have a one year old daughter and see the dificulties that she will have in her life being half thai and half farang... But i think the only words now i can say to you is what i can say about my Daughter.." I always be there to pick you up if you fall down" ...I wish you all the luck in the world friend....

Michael

[farangme]

Aside from the sin sod, I would be very concerned about my daughter marrying a guy that kicks around doing nothing. Will he be a permanent mooch sponging off his parents? Nice role model for future grandchildren.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Ackybang]

Difficult to know what to say in such a personal situation NCFC - but you did offer it up for opinions, so here's mine :

Traditionally, 'sin-sut' is offered by the family of the male to the family of the female, regardless of how rich or poor they are - it is a sign, firstly of manners, and then of respect for the linage of the female - the bride and her mother, for her being raised thus far, and for the bride to produce and raise children for the prospective husband, and his family. 'Ka nam nom' - price, or worth of milk literally. It's a rather shallow show, or gesture of 'worth', but nevertheless one that is time honoured, here for many hundreds of Years, and traditional in many parts of Asia.

Because of face, this would perhaps get more complicated if the two parties have been living or sleeping together already - generally, in a purported real life scenario, the Thai female would hold off until the boy really can't take it, and would have no choice but to propose marriage, and his parents would have to go and ask for the permission from the girl's parents, and discuss 'terms'. It would not be considered appropriate for you to phone the boys parents, to discuss the marriage, or money in any context, really - really, they should have approached you, or if your girl has been seeing him for a long time, you should set up a formal meeting, and discuss this at the boys house, along with your wife and daughter.

Ultimately, you would want your daughter happy, but I can't believe anything that boils down to quibbling about money has got anything to do with love on his family's part.Hiso my arse - you ask any Thai what they think about such a situation. Whether this guy is loaded or not, if he truly loves your daughter, and wants her really, his family should pay. To refuse to pay anything is a significant sign of disrespect, and tell me, what would all the people think at a Thai marriage - when everyone attending, or invited has to see the ceremony in full, which includes witnessing the sin-sut being offered and laid out by the boys parents ? There is no way a normal Thai girl or her family would ever lose face in this way, and there is no way a normal Thai boy, or his family would ever contemplate such behaviour, or loss of face in this way - regardless of what circles they mixed in. Generally, if a Thai family was loaded, they should lavish your daughter and your wife with gold and money, and be happy to do so. How many times do they think their Son will marry ? They obviously think their Son can get anyone, because they're rich.

You are ultimately the man of the house, and you should stand up for your own principles, and what's best for you, and your daughter. Anyone would surely want their children loved, honoured and respected above and before all else. In this Country, pertaining to marriage, honour and respect means paying a dowry. What you do with the money has got nothing to do with anyone else, and you don't need to explain to anyone. The thought of anyone backing down or to cede to someone else because they have money disgusts me, as does anyone that has money, and thinks this is how it should be. What ever happened to respect - self or otherwise ? It would seem this family quite clearly have no respect for you, or your wife, or your daughter, or their own traditions - they sound a little infected to me. Put your foot down, man. Get your wife and child to back you up and go and see this person's family, and work it out - face to face, and if they don't want to pay - tell them you won't allow their Son to marry your daughter - and take it from there.

I really wish you the best of luck, and hope it all works its way out for the best for all of you.

[TommoPhysicist]

Inform daughter she is forbidden to see this man ever again.

Inform daughter if she does see him again, she will never get any money from you for anything.

That's what the Thai family would do if the situation were reversed.

[MAJIC]

Typical: One law for the Rich, and another for the Farang!

[MJCM]

Does the family of the husband want your daughter to sign a prenupt ?

[Pormax]

My views are the same as the others who have responded to your post.

The boy's family is showing total disrespect to your daughter and your family

Just discussed this with my wife. Her views. "Very very bad. Thai people not do that. Think man's family not want son to marry her because her family not same class as them. They 'Up Up' but even though farang 's daughter they look at them as 'down down' and not good enough to mix with them."

Have to say that this mirrors my thoughts. Not sure the farang equation comes into it.

Only yesterday my wife's sister went to a cousin's (on husbands side) wedding where the girl came from a family who were reasonably well off. Mother and Father Thai. But mother remarried to farang (sorry do not know nationality). They had , so I have been told built a house costing between 4 & 5 million for the daugter. The man to marry the daughter comes from a poor family.is a local teacher and although earns a reasonable wage for a Thai, is not wealthy. Family asked and got 1 million Baht and 10 baht gold for sin sod. The teacher had to go to the bank to borrow money. So another rather strange episide re marraige in Thailand. If It was me in the same financial situation, and I do have a step-daugter, I would have thought about how the couple are going to live well for the next few years while having to pay back a heavy loan, and instead asked for a nominal amount of sin sod,

I can see a lot of problems ahead for your daughter if his family as suspected think of her, as well as her family , beneath them.

Very difficult for you as you want the best for your daughter and if you say she cannot marry then she may hate you for that and do it anyway.

[rgs2001uk]

The daughter sounds like a right piece of work, no respect for her family whatsoever.

Best of luck, it will end in tears, and no doubt when the shit hits the fan (as it will) she will be the one left holding the baby.

[rics21]

The daughter sounds like a right piece of work, no respect for her family whatsoever.

Best of luck, it will end in tears, and no doubt when the shit hits the fan (as it will) she will be the one left holding the baby.

Hope your daughter is not signing the prenuptial agreement.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited November 23, 2012 by rics21

[rgs2001uk]

The daughter sounds like a right piece of work, no respect for her family whatsoever.

Best of luck, it will end in tears, and no doubt when the shit hits the fan (as it will) she will be the one left holding the baby.

Hope your daughter is not signing the prenuptial agreement.

Sent from my XT910 using Thaivisa Connect App

Two boys mate.

[Payboy]

He comes from an extremely rich Bangkok family - they own a hotel in Bangkok and properties scattered throughout the world.

Not dear old Moo Haam, is it?

[scotto]

maybe let your wife handle it and you being the farang stand in the background and see

what happens at the end of the day you should be thinking of your daughter and her happiness

regardless of wether or not you like what she does be there to support and guide her

the best you can if she makes a mistake then be there to pick up the pieces

[MAJIC]

My views are the same as the others who have responded to your post.

The boy's family is showing total disrespect to your daughter and your family

Just discussed this with my wife. Her views. "Very very bad. Thai people not do that. Think man's family not want son to marry her because her family not same class as them. They 'Up Up' but even though farang 's daughter they look at them as 'down down' and not good enough to mix with them."

Have to say that this mirrors my thoughts. Not sure the farang equation comes into it.

Only yesterday my wife's sister went to a cousin's (on husbands side) wedding where the girl came from a family who were reasonably well off. Mother and Father Thai. But mother remarried to farang (sorry do not know nationality). They had , so I have been told built a house costing between 4 & 5 million for the daugter. The man to marry the daughter comes from a poor family.is a local teacher and although earns a reasonable wage for a Thai, is not wealthy. Family asked and got 1 million Baht and 10 baht gold for sin sod. The teacher had to go to the bank to borrow money. So another rather strange episide re marraige in Thailand. If It was me in the same financial situation, and I do have a step-daugter, I would have thought about how the couple are going to live well for the next few years while having to pay back a heavy loan, and instead asked for a nominal amount of sin sod,

I can see a lot of problems ahead for your daughter if his family as suspected think of her, as well as her family , beneath them.

Very difficult for you as you want the best for your daughter and if you say she cannot marry then she may hate you for that and do it anyway.

When it comes to respecting the Sin Sod,even the poorest of Isaan people recognise the need. One village wedding my wife and I attended had 20,000 baht laid out on the floor,a small amount,but tradition had been upheld. While these Hi Sos are making their point,the OP is a Farang,so there is no need to show respect to him or any of his family!

Sorry to say:but it does not bode well for the OPs Daughters future,but I Sincerely hope I am wrong.

[Jangot]

To me, it seems that the phrase ",,,will not pay a satang.." says it all.

If those were the actual words used by the boy or his father, then the intent is clear. It was meant as a provocative insult.

If the father merely had some feeling that sin-sod was an outmoded custom no longer to be followed, or if he thought sin-sod not appropriate because the girls father is not Thai, then he would have approached the subject with better manners, explaining his viewpoint.

I fear this will not end well.

[jpinx]

Show your daughter this topic - make her read every comment in it.........

[mike123ca]

It sounds like the other Thai family doesn't want their son to marry your daughter.

When I married my wife, I paid the same amount her brother's paid for their wife's and her sister's received from their husband,s.

[I Like Thai]

From your initial postings the chain of events are a bit confusing. Can you clarify as to what happened when. Would my quoted piece below be close ?

Personally, I think she is making a mistake marrying this guy. They met three years ago when she went to study her master's in Australia and he was living there too. He didn't have a regular job, just played DJ at house events while Mummy and Daddy sent him a monthly allowance from Thailand. The kids moved back to Thailand three months ago and my daughter got a job immediately while her bf kicks around doing nothing.

I advised my daughter that this guy was unsuitable marrriage material but she won't listen and I think the message may have got back to her parents, hence they don't want to have anything to do with our family.

But the boy has said to my daughter that he and his parents will not pay a satang in Sin Sod.

I said to my wife that we need to discuss this with his parents but she is reluctant because she feels 'greenjai' to these hiso people.

Later, I called the boys father and said we need to discuss the wedding, including the Sin Sod agreement. While on the phone he was polite and agreeable, but as soon as we had finished our conversation, the father called my daughter

Edited November 24, 2012 by I Like Thai

[Honkie]

Have a heart to heart talk with your daughter . Be patient and realistic..Ask your daughter just one question WHY she wants to marry this guy ? To tie him down ? To prove her love for him ? This so called hi so kid will still play around even after they are married. If he really loves her , he will fight his parents but so far I don't see that.

However , at the end of the day , it is your daughter's own life and she is old enough to decide what is right for herself , if she is head over heels with this guy then no matter what you and your wife say will be going in from one ear and out from the other.

Whatever you do ,do not threaten to cut her off , just be there when she needs you and I am sure these occasions will be plentiful if she decide to go ahead with the marriage.

Good Luck!

BTW , this HI SO , MId SO , LOw So , Thai So are all Bull......

[mingalaba]

God this thread is full of hypocrisy.

If some of you are asked to pay sin sot you find all kinds of reasons not to pay but when its you who is about to recieve sin sot then you are all for it and the future husband "has to pay in order to show his love".

Also why these wild assumptions about the boy? For all we know he might be a nice guy

Edited November 24, 2012 by mingalaba

[Jayman]

My wife mentioned that her cousin recently got married and the man's family wouldn't pay any sidsot. Rather than lose face at the wedding (that the Thai man's family didn't even show up to) the mother put her own money down for the sidsot claiming it to be from the grooms family. Of course after the ceremony she put the money back into her pocket. The point is, is a major loss of face for not only the grooms family but also the bride's family if there is no sidsot on show for the ceremony. The mother was willing to lose face to her own family by putting up the sidsot for her own daughter just to save face to the rest of the village.

[Gary A]

Huge wedding parties and sin sot are usually quickly forgotten. If the kids are truly in love, allow them to elope and forget about a big face sin sot and wedding party.

My particular situation was likely much different. I paid no sin sot and the wedding party consisted of my new bride and I plus the witnesses. My wife never had children and was 39 years old at the time.