Daughter Getting Married,his Family Won't Pay Sin Sod

[Jayman]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

And how much did you spend on the engagement ring you gave her?

Apart form Thai HiSo wanna copy farangs, and upcountry LoSo lets tell the buffalo its Thai culture, I have never met a Thai who has bought an engagement ring.

I paid no sin sot, didnt buy an engagement ring, dont give the wife money to stay with me every month, dont give a red satang to to the family every month (never been asked to).

I appreciate others may not be in the same boat. YMMV.

Engagement ring my ass, wait 'till I talk to the Thai lads from Surin tomorrow, I can just imagine the conversation, oooiii farang ba.

Why are you asking thais for their opinion on a western tradition? The engagement ring is a western tradition that the man offers to the woman for her hand in marriage. But I understand that the all tradition goes out the window when a westerner comes to Thailand to find his bride. He feels no need to either follow her tradition or his own. To each his own. If both parties are in agreement then there shouldn't be any issues.

Traditions are just that, tradition. No law says you have to exchange wedding rings, or give her an engagement ring, or that she has to change her last name to yours. These are just traditions. You don't have to have a traditional wedding. You could show up in a t-shirt and sandals at city hall and sign the paperwork for 20thb and you are legally married. The important thing is that both parties are happy and that their traditions are respected (if they want them to be). If you are entering a marriage without respect for your partner and her traditions (and likewise for her) then things are starting off on the wrong foot for a long term commitment called marriage.

and I believe that is what this thread is talking about.. the disrespect being shown by one party for not wanting to follow the other's traditions.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Jayman

[rgs2001uk]

If you are entering a marriage without respect for your partner and her traditions (and likewise for her) then things are starting off on the wrong foot for a long term commitment called marriage.

Agree 110%.

Unfortunately we live in Thailand, and what is often passed of as Thai tradition is a load of kee kwai.

The gullible farang thinks he is adhering to Thai tradition when its nothing of the sort.

Where you met your intended and what province she lives in may dictate your understanding of Thai culture.

Edited November 26, 2012 by rgs2001uk

[Jayman]

If you are entering a marriage without respect for your partner and her traditions (and likewise for her) then things are starting off on the wrong foot for a long term commitment called marriage.

Agree 110%.

Unfortunately we live in Thailand, and what is often passed of as Thai tradition is a load of kee kwai.

The gullible farang thinks he is adhering to Thai tradition when its nothing of the sort.

Where you met your intended and what province she lives in may dictate your understanding of Thai culture.

If there is a family history of something then that is "tradition". My father gave my mother an engagement ring. My thai father in law gave my mother in laws family a sidsot. Both of these are traditions in my family.

But my families traditions aren't the point here in this thread, the point is what are the traditions followed by the 2 families that are going to be joined by a marriage.

Did the grooms's father pay a sidsot to his brides family? Is the giving of a sidsot a tradition on the bride's family side? If so, then the refusal to acknowledge this tradition is an act of disrespect and should be discussed openly prior to a union of the 2 families.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Jayman

[rgs2001uk]

If you are entering a marriage without respect for your partner and her traditions (and likewise for her) then things are starting off on the wrong foot for a long term commitment called marriage.

Agree 110%.

Unfortunately we live in Thailand, and what is often passed of as Thai tradition is a load of kee kwai.

The gullible farang thinks he is adhering to Thai tradition when its nothing of the sort.

Where you met your intended and what province she lives in may dictate your understanding of Thai culture.

If there is a family history of something then that is "tradition". My father gave my mother an engagement ring. My thai father in law gave my mother in laws family a sidsot. Both of these are traditions in my family.

But my families traditions aren't the point here in this thread, the point is what are the traditions followed by the 2 families that are going to be joined by a marriage.

Did your Thai FIL give an engagement ring, did your father pay sin sot?

Same same but different

[Jayman]

If you are entering a marriage without respect for your partner and her traditions (and likewise for her) then things are starting off on the wrong foot for a long term commitment called marriage.

Agree 110%.

Unfortunately we live in Thailand, and what is often passed of as Thai tradition is a load of kee kwai.

The gullible farang thinks he is adhering to Thai tradition when its nothing of the sort.

Where you met your intended and what province she lives in may dictate your understanding of Thai culture.

If there is a family history of something then that is "tradition". My father gave my mother an engagement ring. My thai father in law gave my mother in laws family a sidsot. Both of these are traditions in my family.

But my families traditions aren't the point here in this thread, the point is what are the traditions followed by the 2 families that are going to be joined by a marriage.

Did your Thai FIL give an engagement ring, did your father pay sin sot?

Same same but different

It's not at all the same. the exchange of engagement rings was not a tradition for either family. Why would he have given one? Sidsot was tradition for both sides of that marriage.

And why would my father have paid a sidsot when that was not the tradition of either my mother or father? He gave an engagement ring which was their tradition.

Now if we are talking about the mixed marriage of 2 cultures than both cultures traditions need to be acknowledged and respected if need be. I don't see how this is all that complicated. Is it just me that feels this is common sense?

[rgs2001uk]

Now if we are talking about the mixed marriage of 2 cultures than both cultures traditions need to be acknowledged and respected if need be. I don't see how this is all that complicated. Is it just me that feels this is common sense?

Again I agree with you 110 %, No its common sense.

There are unfortunately dumb farang buffalo wandering these plains who dont know any better, they seem to think what is passed off onto them is Thai culture, when it isnt.

BTW my mrs is Mon, theres another whole subject whatsoever, eg Songkran.

[robblok]

I agree 100% here that respect should be shown, traditional sin sod where the money comes back is all fine. The one where the money is not returned in any way is not culture but greed. (if one pays the wedding i see that as part of money returning). But if you pay sin sod and for the wedding and nothing is returned you have been taken for a ride.

But as i stated in an other post if this is about respect there are other ways to show this. Sin sod does not have to be the way to show respect. If these other parents don't show any signs of respect, its not a good start.

But in the end its the daughter getting married and she should be happy. Its not about respect given to the parents (would be the best of course). But she is not marrying to give face or respect to her parents. She is marrying to be happy. If it was my daughter id want her to be happy. I would not like it that i get no respect but her happiness goes first.

I dont have a daughter but if its hypothetical.

Edited November 26, 2012 by robblok

[robblok]

But OP is in a bad spot, supposed its only about the guy being a bad guy. A bad choice and not the disrespect (real or imagined). I would swallow my pride for the happiness of my daughter (if i had one). But if it was about protecting her from a bad choice, only he would be wrong in the eyes of his daughter in both situations.

If he is right and he is a bad choice and he forbids it, she will never know he was right and she will be angry with him for spoiling her perceived happiness. If he lets it go on knowing that he is a bad choice and it goes wrong she will be unhappy too.

Either way it would be a problem if the guy is a bad choice.

But in the end i still think its the daughters choice, he can express his concerns but its her life.

[Kilgore Trout]

Really...get over it, if farang upsets you so much then you must have a hell of a time here with everything else.

The word farang alone is nothing, it is the additional words they add to it which then make it a variable put down.

whatever...i would never tell my daughter to accept the "fact" that she is "falang" what utter nonsense, would you tell your daughter she is half spic half gringa if your wife was Mexican?

Have some backbone, uncle tom-_-

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[seefaonuma]

This not the good sign in my opinion , many rich people sticky than ordinary people that why they rich .

I think Sinsod is not about parent want that money but actually them want to garantee that man can takecare theirs daughter

And he just prove it .

Many time I saw thing like this

- Rich guy with medium class girl people think that girl is lucky but behind the seen she work hard for money to be part of his expensive lifestyle .

- Doctor wife , people think she is lucky , her doctor husband should take care she very well ,behind the scene the wife work 10 hr a day pay for condo rent , car , because his doctor husband studying in the medical school having salary only 1x,xxx per month .

If I were you in this situation I will tell my daughter to take a break with wedding plan , if she insist to marry it is ok too , who know what will happen but I know she need family support her decision .

Hope you found the good solution for this situation .

[NCFC]

This not the good sign in my opinion , many rich people sticky than ordinary people that why they rich .

I think Sinsod is not about parent want that money but actually them want to garantee that man can takecare theirs daughter

And he just prove it .

Many time I saw thing like this

- Rich guy with medium class girl people think that girl is lucky but behind the seen she work hard for money to be part of his expensive lifestyle .

- Doctor wife , people think she is lucky , her doctor husband should take care she very well ,behind the scene the wife work 10 hr a day pay for condo rent , car , because his doctor husband studying in the medical school having salary only 1x,xxx per month .

If I were you in this situation I will tell my daughter to take a break with wedding plan , if she insist to marry it is ok too , who know what will happen but I know she need family support her decision .

Hope you found the good solution for this situation .

Thank you, seefaonuma, I think you understand what is going on here. Since the couple returned to Thailand in September my daughter has two jobs, one of which she trying to startup her own business, while the boyfriend does nothing.

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

[thewug]

This not the good sign in my opinion , many rich people sticky than ordinary people that why they rich .

I think Sinsod is not about parent want that money but actually them want to garantee that man can takecare theirs daughter

And he just prove it .

Many time I saw thing like this

- Rich guy with medium class girl people think that girl is lucky but behind the seen she work hard for money to be part of his expensive lifestyle .

- Doctor wife , people think she is lucky , her doctor husband should take care she very well ,behind the scene the wife work 10 hr a day pay for condo rent , car , because his doctor husband studying in the medical school having salary only 1x,xxx per month .

If I were you in this situation I will tell my daughter to take a break with wedding plan , if she insist to marry it is ok too , who know what will happen but I know she need family support her decision .

Hope you found the good solution for this situation .

Thank you, seefaonuma, I think you understand what is going on here. Since the couple returned to Thailand in September my daughter has two jobs, one of which she trying to startup her own business, while the boyfriend does nothing.

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

I think you made a very wise decision... And even if his parents are rich that doesn't mean that they will take care of them... And what was your daughters reaction to this?

[rgs2001uk]

This not the good sign in my opinion , many rich people sticky than ordinary people that why they rich .

I think Sinsod is not about parent want that money but actually them want to garantee that man can takecare theirs daughter

And he just prove it .

Many time I saw thing like this

- Rich guy with medium class girl people think that girl is lucky but behind the seen she work hard for money to be part of his expensive lifestyle .

- Doctor wife , people think she is lucky , her doctor husband should take care she very well ,behind the scene the wife work 10 hr a day pay for condo rent , car , because his doctor husband studying in the medical school having salary only 1x,xxx per month .

If I were you in this situation I will tell my daughter to take a break with wedding plan , if she insist to marry it is ok too , who know what will happen but I know she need family support her decision .

Hope you found the good solution for this situation .

Thank you, seefaonuma, I think you understand what is going on here. Since the couple returned to Thailand in September my daughter has two jobs, one of which she trying to startup her own business, while the boyfriend does nothing.

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

I think you made a very wise decision... And even if his parents are rich that doesn't mean that they will take care of them... And what was your daughters reaction to this?

He was visibly shocked

Probably the first time in his life anyone has ever spoken to him like that, sounds like a right spoiled brat.

Well done.

[Humbugged]

He doesn't drive a Ferrari with a bit of a ding in the front does he ?

[rgs2001uk]

He doesn't drive a Ferrari with a bit of a ding in the front does he ?

Nice one, I remember that.

[Jayman]

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

Sounds like you have your head in the right place about this.

Best of luck and hope it works out well.

[Pormax]

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

Sounds like you have your head in the right place about this.

Best of luck and hope it works out well.

Good thinking but I Have my doubtsif this will work. Only time will tell.

Until his family come to understand that just because they have lots of money that this does not make them any better people than others, then I think your daughter's marraige is doomed.

Why can people not judge others by what type of person they are and not what they have.

Some of the wealthiest people in the world are crooks.

This Thai way of thinking does annoy me.

I too wish you the best of luck.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Pormax

[robblok]

This not the good sign in my opinion , many rich people sticky than ordinary people that why they rich .

I think Sinsod is not about parent want that money but actually them want to garantee that man can takecare theirs daughter

And he just prove it .

Many time I saw thing like this

- Rich guy with medium class girl people think that girl is lucky but behind the seen she work hard for money to be part of his expensive lifestyle .

- Doctor wife , people think she is lucky , her doctor husband should take care she very well ,behind the scene the wife work 10 hr a day pay for condo rent , car , because his doctor husband studying in the medical school having salary only 1x,xxx per month .

If I were you in this situation I will tell my daughter to take a break with wedding plan , if she insist to marry it is ok too , who know what will happen but I know she need family support her decision .

Hope you found the good solution for this situation .

Thank you, seefaonuma, I think you understand what is going on here. Since the couple returned to Thailand in September my daughter has two jobs, one of which she trying to startup her own business, while the boyfriend does nothing.

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

perfectly done this shows its not about money but your daughters future and hapyness.

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[seefaonuma]

i agree with what you do , the right thing come after the right act

[johnnycthedog]

This topic has been a fascinating read with lots of positive comments and suggestions. There's been minimal agro' and no religious claptrap. And it's been educational too. I'm sure someone will benefit from these discussions when their own marriage situation to a Thai girl arises.

[The Dude]

Where is your wife from? this might explain everything

[NCFC]

Where is your wife from? this might explain everything

She is from Bangkok. Her family is from just a regular middle-class Thai background. I am a foreigner, achieved middle-management level before retiring this year.

[thewug]

Still like to know what your daughter thought about the conversation you had with the boyfriend...

[Scully]

Surely it's the groom that should be paying sin sod not the family. Maybe the grooms family have had enough of giving handouts, and sin sod is one step too far.

Asking him to find employment is a good move. It would also be nice if his family found out about this idea, this will let them know your intentions and they may well agree and pressure him into doing the right thing.

[Berkshire]

God this thread is full of hypocrisy.

If some of you are asked to pay sin sot you find all kinds of reasons not to pay but when its you who is about to recieve sin sot then you are all for it and the future husband "has to pay in order to show his love".

Also why these wild assumptions about the boy? For all we know he might be a nice guy

Indeed, I must say that the majority of posts on this thread are rather odd. Or at least not in keeping with the standard TV protocol, which is that Sin Sod is evil and demeaning and should never be paid (at least that seems to be the sentiments of many farangs that populate this forum). But the OP seems to be a level-headed and reasonable guy, so no knocks on him personally.

Anyways, carry on.

[thewug]

I think part of the problem that westerns have about Sinsod is the fact that Thai ask for to much money... They don't return the money.... They not use it for the married couple... And or they want more everymonth on top of the sinsod... See, Thais have this illusion that we have so much money and that if we have enough to come here we have enough to give to them... But i don't disagree with Thai tradision of sinsod because its a tradition for them... And its out of respect to the brides family... But they also need to understand that we aren't as rich as they think...

[Canada]

I truly appreciate every one of your comments and listened carefully to what each one of you has said.

I feel that my daughter has become so head-over-heels with this Thai guy is that she has has lost her sense of clear judgement. My daughter is planning an engagement ceremony for early next year and then a marriage ceremony sometime later. What do posters think? Should all the family discussions take place before the engagement ceremony or should I wait until the marriage ceremony is announced?

At least having an engagement ceremony gives me a little breathing space and to see how this pans out. I am having to deal with it myself as my Thai wife is in such a state of shock that she won't speak the the other parents and doesn't want to talk with my daughter or the boyfriend either.

Terms of the marriage will be announced at the engagement ceremony. One of the advantages of an engagement ceremony is that it "takes the heat off", in Thai culture, you can have an engagement ceremony, pay some money up front, announce the terms then get married whenever you want without loss of face in the community. I have been through exactly that. An engagement ceremony may help to open your daughter eyes a little too. If she hasn't already, ask her read up on Thai custom and do her ceremony in accordance with that. She will have her own questions and concerns.

This Thai family has no respect for your daughter or her lineage, does not approve of the marriage, and is clearly demonstrating that. My concern is mostly about the Thai guy. Thai guys have a pattern that is followed quite well here. Love, fuc_k, pregnant, run. Over and over again I see and hear this. This particular Thai male is already displaying his propensity towards lack of responsibility for himself. I would be very concerned. If he really wanted to marry your daughter, he would convince his parents to at least pay sin sot appropriate to the "class level" of the bride's family. I have seen this. Ultra rich Thai family pays 40,000 baht to the family of poor Thai girl for sin sot.

There are many concerns here in this situation. Fact based decision making can be difficult when it is an emotional situation. I hope your daughter figures this one out. Thai guys can be good, but they are few and far between.

For Thai people, this is probably the worst possible situation that could happen. You are right, your wife is probably in shock, and has shut down.

I would lean towards forbidding the marriage....as crazy as that sounds. The children will elope and do it themselves. This would do less damage to your wife than marrying without sin sot would. You save face by taking a stand. This puts the onus on the children to figure it out. In trying to figure it out themselves, your daughter may get a clearer picture of who her hubby to be is and cancel it on her own.

The risky part will be maintaining your relationship with her through this. I agree with one poster....show her this thread. Often things that come from another mouth or from many, make deaf ears hear again.

[Canada]

As the OP, this is what I decided to do.

Last night I invited my daughter and her boyfriend over to dinner. After eating I took him outside, sat him down and told him he would not be able to get married until he proved to me that he could take good care of my daughter.

He was visibly shocked and began saying how wealthy his family was. I stopped him and said,no, I want to see you working and earning an income by your own efforts before I give your marriage a blessing. I gave him a deadline of end of January after which I would reassess the situation.

I left it at that and didn't mention the Sin Sod as I now think this is a secondary issue and I now realise the main issue is the guys ability and desire to man up and take on his responsibilities.

Now I await the reaction from all sides. It's quite possible my comments will be ignored but at least I have put them out in plain view for all to see.

Sounds like you have your head in the right place about this.

Best of luck and hope it works out well.

I think you are on the right path, but entirely to lenient. He'll get a job and then quit it. January is only a month away. How about get a job and keep it a year or 2. That would demonstrate some responsibility. Let him jump this small hoop then give him a bigger one ie. "great, you got a job, now keep it for a year." Then, after that, start negotiations with his family. If it still no sin sot, I would stick with my original recommendation. Make them elope.....tell them why if you have to.

[Canada]

The other thing that you could do is just decide with your wife how much you want for sin sot and tell the boy. Leave it up to him to figure out how to get it from his parents. You could offer to give it back after the ceremony minus the cost of the wedding.

[marstons]

I would think its 2012 if my daughter is happy then so would I be, but i am a farnag and have a farang traditions and money would never come into my daughters happiness. If your a farang i am suprised you are looking for sin sod money. i had a tradional English registery office wedding, family not invited, how ever later in life they got the new house, car, son in private school etc.

If she ups and offs or if he ups and offs then you only have yourself to blame IMHO

Edited November 29, 2012 by marstons