Ricardo Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Good for the Opposition for exposing some of the corruption, this rather makes the point, as to why votes of censure are worth having, even though the outcome (party-MPs voting for their 'leader') is a foregone conclusion. Cue posts claiming that this is still all OK, because it's what the people voted for, if only by a narrow majority. Any Opposition should be doing this sort of thing, unfortunately the PTP couldn't really be bothered, when they were out-of-power. They should learn from this democratic example, and try harder to follow it, next time they're on the Opposition-benches ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon467367354 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 this will only change when MP's and other government officials are not above the law. Amazing to me that all this corruption, stealing from the people, and terrorist acts such as threatening to burn Bangkok cannot be dealt with because the people that committed and are committed these crimes are above the law and immune. How "<deleted>" ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Look guys it's blatently obvious that deocracy doesn't work in Thailand at this point, all it does is vote a handful of thugs into government to pillage what they can from the Thai people under some cloak of secrecy corruption lies and deception, Thailand suffers the good thai people suffer and the country gets no further along It needs to stop, I only wish the most repected family in the land wasn't in a position to do something about it We can post thousands of opinions and arguments on here about this and that but the reality is ........obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 the censure debate should be put to the people in a referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 the censure debate should be put to the people in a referendum Sounds similar to an election to me. Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Look guys it's blatently obvious that deocracy doesn't work in Thailand at this point, all it does is vote a handful of thugs into government to pillage what they can from the Thai people under some cloak of secrecy corruption lies and deception, Thailand suffers the good thai people suffer and the country gets no further along It needs to stop, I only wish the most repected family in the land wasn't in a position to do something about it We can post thousands of opinions and arguments on here about this and that but the reality is ........obvious "the most respected family in the land" I wasn't aware the Shinawats were the most respected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LomSak27 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 nothing outragious about it, just the usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suanpai Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Look guys it's blatently obvious that deocracy doesn't work in Thailand at this point, all it does is vote a handful of thugs into government to pillage what they can from the Thai people under some cloak of secrecy corruption lies and deception, Thailand suffers the good thai people suffer and the country gets no further along It needs to stop, I only wish the most repected family in the land wasn't in a position to do something about it We can post thousands of opinions and arguments on here about this and that but the reality is ........obvious "the most respected family in the land" I wasn't aware the Shinawats were the most respected. I think Smedly meant... 'It needs to stop, I only wish the most repected family in the land WAS in a position to do something about it'. And not about the Thaskin family either. Edited November 28, 2012 by suanpai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapout Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I would concede that there is corruption in all governments, BUT, Thailand's present government seems to be setting a new record in realative amounts skimmed vs the individual budgets alloted for the benifit of the people/country. As mentioned, its seems the corruption has grown to such a large scale throughout the system (top to bottom) that no individual nor minority groups know how to find a solution, which could be termed demoratic. We are still hearing the worn out, over used term, a committee is looking into allagations, ongoing investigation, etc,give them/us time. There have been indications that vast sums have already been skimmed and more are being lost every day these people have their system in place, It appears so widespread that those in leadership positions are going to have to brought to account, in a very hard way, if it is to be slowed down to an acceptable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Corruption is endemic here and it's unlikely to change in the foreseeable future as it's such a part of even daily life. Nothing gets done here without some form of bribery, concession, backhander or whatever. One of the reasons that it won't change is that from the bottom up, people all want the chance to get their own slice of the pie and they hope that one day they will be in a position to be able to get it. Until then, they accept things as they are as a way or fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments... Brilliant sleuthing Watson. You don't know the difference between a corrupt government (e.g. PTP) and a government with a small level of corruption (Germany's)? Admittedly my wording was not clear, but others seemed to understand the meaning. Play nice Ken. By definition a Government with some level of corruption is a corrupt Government. Think about it. And yes, before you ask I believe corruption is rife in the current administration as it was in the previous one. They are good examples of corrupt Governments. Germany I would also class as a corrupt Government and on a scale that eclipses anything that the Thais are capable of due to their influence over other EU countries. Edited November 28, 2012 by Ferangled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments... To put into scientific/electronics terms - after the on/off switch comes frequency and amplitude controls. Yes, it happens. Rarely does it happen so often, to such a degree, or with such disregard for the lack of subtlety. Well done corruption often goes undetected. Thailand's version is akin to being bludgeoned, raped and left bleeding and naked in the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments... To put into scientific/electronics terms - after the on/off switch comes frequency and amplitude controls. Yes, it happens. Rarely does it happen so often, to such a degree, or with such disregard for the lack of subtlety. Well done corruption often goes undetected. Thailand's version is akin to being bludgeoned, raped and left bleeding and naked in the street. What on earth are you banging on about Mick?! As to your analogy, I'd say Thailand is more cordial, in your face corruption than the dagger in the back type of corruption we see in the West. If we were comparing corruption to violent sexual crimes in a rather bizarre & clumsy fashion, I'd say Thailand is more a blow job from a street hooker while the US is more a gang rape in a back alley at gun point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments... Brilliant sleuthing Watson. You don't know the difference between a corrupt government (e.g. PTP) and a government with a small level of corruption (Germany's)? Admittedly my wording was not clear, but others seemed to understand the meaning. Play nice Ken. By definition a Government with some level of corruption is a corrupt Government. Think about it. And yes, before you ask I believe corruption is rife in the current administration as it was in the previous one. They are good examples of corrupt Governments. No, a government with a small level of corruption is not a corrupt government. My definition of a corrupt government is one where the level of corruption is greater than the level of honesty - like PTP (in spades). The previous one was nowhere near that level. Sweeping statements make it easy to disengage the thinking process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The faux argument that all governments are corrupt is, as usual, totted out by PTP defenders. That there is some corruption in all governments, I can accept. But the blatant style by the current mob here is second only to the Thaksin way when he was in power locally. The worst thing is that Thaksin selects the cabinet based on two criteria: his family & how corrupt is an individual. Too often the individual is both. Corruption will never be eliminated but it should be curtailed as far as possible by the checks & balances within a (half-) democracy. Unfortunately it's just not happening & I feel great sorrow for Thailand. You can't accept that all governments are corrupt but can accept that there is corruption in all governments... To put into scientific/electronics terms - after the on/off switch comes frequency and amplitude controls. Yes, it happens. Rarely does it happen so often, to such a degree, or with such disregard for the lack of subtlety. Well done corruption often goes undetected. Thailand's version is akin to being bludgeoned, raped and left bleeding and naked in the street. What on earth are you banging on about Mick?! As to your analogy, I'd say Thailand is more cordial, in your face corruption than the dagger in the back type of corruption we see in the West. If we were comparing corruption to violent sexual crimes in a rather bizarre & clumsy fashion, I'd say Thailand is more a blow job from a street hooker while the US is more a gang rape in a back alley at gun point. Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waza Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 No, a government with a small level of corruption is not a corrupt government. My definition of a corrupt government is one where the level of corruption is greater than the level of honesty - like PTP (in spades). The previous one was nowhere near that level. Sweeping statements make it easy to disengage the thinking process. Insert face palm here... ok Ken, I'll take it slowly for you... you can have a corrupt Government that is a little corrupt and another that is very corrupt. They are both corrupt Governments by definition! A police force that is a little corrupt is still corrupt... is the penny slowly dropping? Think of it in these terms Ken, you have a small pecker but you're still a man aren't you? Yes but the PTP is corrupt and incompetent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them. Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end! I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Insults and baiting posts have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I just checked to see if I'd made a faux pas in my previous post & I see the above. This is a warning, any more like this & you're on report. The arrogance was not in your really silly throwaway line but in the first paragraph. You don't know me (thankfully) any you have no right to comment on any part of me. Your last two posts were an attempted put-down (i.e. total arrogance). You've failed other than displaying the low quality of your posts - for all to see. Ken, I appreciate your sensitivity and with this in mind will refrain from further exchanges with you. It was a childish reference and pointless "discussion". Let's hope it all disappears into glittery internet dust and the moderators are lenient. Kindly refrain from future exchanges, I'll return the favour and enjoy Loy Krathong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Insults and baiting posts have been removed. dam_n, I was just reading through those! I was waiting for the handbags to come out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimay1 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them. Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end! I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch. In all due respect you venture wrong but that is to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferangled Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them. Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end! I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch. In all due respect you venture wrong but that is to be expected. With all due respect I don't believe either you or I or anyone else for that matter are in a position to definitively say what most Thais think, only speculate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 No need to speculate on anything. Just ask them and get the answer. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Sorry, but any alternative will be more of the same. Just choose who you'd prefer to be reaping the benefits and get on with it. Progress be d_mned, this is Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them. Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end! I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch. In all due respect you venture wrong but that is to be expected. With all due respect I don't believe either you or I or anyone else for that matter are in a position to definitively say what most Thais think, only speculate... Well said, my dear chap. Still it doesn't stop people and posters from clearly stating as fact that 'everyone knowns' that this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Do people really expect them to put there family and friends in jail for graft? This is a very critical point, and the answer is NO, they will investigate their own, and NO they will NOT ever introduce strong legislation to counter corruption, collusion, etc. Which is why nothing will happen until the public at large, with a structured appraoch, stands up, reveals all with details and with names and demands change. Plus hopefully strong credible comparisons of what the stolen taxpayers funds could have bought. e.g. 1). 20 schools for 200 children with modern facilities, 2). Additional teacher training programs for 500 teachers. 3). 20 new / upgraded hospitals, etc etc. 4). Modern instrastructure to support decentralization of say 5,000 jobs, etc etc. NO they will NOT ever introduce strong legislation to counter corruption, collusion, etc. For a very good reason. They are to busy introducing legisslation to increase corruption. I wonder how even Yingluck with all her Shinwatra trainiing could have kept a straight face when she was quoted as saying. "she repeatedly announced her government would suppress graft as part of its "Stop Corruption" campaign. How is bringing Thaksin back a free and clear man going to help stop corruption? That is what her government is primarily concerned with. I bet it took them a week to find her a helicopter incapable of night flying. Edited November 28, 2012 by hellodolly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mr Impartial will never accept outright criticism of "his" government. there is nothing cordial, pleasant or voluntary in the level of theft from the public purse in this country. perhaps I should have added "drugged" to my scenario as many thais seem to believe it isn't happening to them. Never critical of this administration eh?! Right-o, if I don't agree with everything you say hook, line and sinker I must be a Thaksin supporting, red shirt... rational to the end! I'd venture that, as recent polls have shown, most Thais are only too well aware that corruption is rife in this country, the Government being no exception and rather than drugged they are simply willing participants, and are working on the assumption that this lot are the best of a bad bunch. In all due respect you venture wrong but that is to be expected.[/quot] A sure sign that some one has no idea of what they are talking about is when they have to rely on Thai Polls. Thailand the hub of what do you want proof of we will run a poll and prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt.Yes in all likelihood most Thais do approve of corruption. But what is unsaid is that they know nothing of the depth and money involved in the government level. You say corruption to them and they think of the cop who took a 200 baht bribe to avoid a 400 baht fine. The average Thai is not capable of thinking of money in the amount the politicians steal from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post smedly Posted November 28, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2012 most people here have a good idea what is going on, I'd say TS has already tripled his confiscated funds, it is seriously annoying that the majority of thai people can't see further than 500baht, they wouldn't know how to count all the zeros (billions) that are being currently raped from their pockets by the nice men they think are wonderful heros - makes me sick to watch it happen - what a ***** this country is and to the falangs here that think it's ok - shame on you - of all the people that have an educated chance of seeing it - what is your excuse - you are even worse than the thai perps of this routing because you should be able to see what's going on and yet you come on here backing these thugs and thieves - Dick Turpin wore a mask <deleted> 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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