Buying Or Opening A Business In Phuket

[petercallen]

In my opinion the days are gone when you could start a business in Phuket for 5 to 15M baht and make a decent living from it

By doing some home work i found out that if you invest 40M baht in business and employing Thai people you can own up to a Rai of land in your own name but i have also been told this rule only applies to people from the USA

With all the competition and the fact you cannot own the land the business is on but only lease or rent it which means you do all the work to establish a successful business then lose it to the owner of the land this is a waste of time and effort

A Internet or home run business could be successful it you can find the right one but not anything you rent or lease the land for is a waste of time with no security

Whats your opinion

[hansgruber]

No need to own the land in your name Peter. BVI's are the way and you have control.

I think your post is more land ownership related than business related but I agree with your post about business.

Too much competition, returns on investments just aren't there and too much beurocracy.

[stevenl]

Put the land in the name of the business.

[steelepulse]

Some businesses you can take with you ( M and M's did that and they are doing really well), while others you would have to negotiate a viable long term rental contract and calculate if it's a good ROI or not. I am seeing a trend that land in a good location is getting harder and harder to buy as landlords know they have a gold mine and won't sell unless it's an over the top price.

It's amazing now that a lot of businesses for sale are businesses that have only a couple of years left on their lease (guesthouses, bars, restarurants).

[petercallen]

No need to own the land in your name Peter. BVI's are the way and you have control.

I think your pnot the ost is more land ownership related than business related but I agree with your post about business.own the

Too much competition, returns on investments just aren't there and too much beurocracy.

No its about owning a business completely freehold which means you have to own the land the business is on, its the only way i would invest in a business here or anywhere

That way all capitol gains in land or business value belongs to you not the landlord

[petercallen]

Put the land in the name of the business.

Which a expat can only legally own 49% off, good one SL

[stevenl]

Put the land in the name of the business.

Which a expat can only legally own 49% off, good one SL

There are many ways around that. You're seeing bears on the road even though there are none.

[petercallen]

Put the land in the name of the business.

Which a expat can only legally own 49% off, good one SL

There are many ways around that. You're seeing bears on the road even though there are none.

They changed the company rules here about 4 years ago, maybe you should check out the current company regulations about ownership and voting rights, i have heard of the different ways of getting around them but personally i am not interested unless you can tell me something i do not know which is legal

[Phronesis]

I first came to Phuket on a business investment visa three years ago. I have completed due dilligence on a number of potential business purchases in Phuket since then...with the same conclusion on each...better to leave the money in the bank.

The price of businesses in Phuket...especially considering the ROIs and local commercial risk factors is just ridiculous. The same applies for property prices.

Sure...at the lower end prices are high because of the endless wave of cashed up middle aged newbies who fall in love with their tilak and lay down their cash with their eyes wide SHUT.

But why are prices so inflated at the mid and upper end? My personal conclusion is there is a sea of money that needs to be laundered. Ridiculous prices are being paid with no regard to ROI whatsoever because the primary goal in the transaction is money laundering. In this context issues such as profitability or capital gains are irrelevant.

[KarenBravo]

Doesn't the nature of the business determine whether it is better to buy, or rent land?

If renting is the best business plan, then there's no problem.

[stevenl]

Put the land in the name of the business.

Which a expat can only legally own 49% off, good one SL

There are many ways around that. You're seeing bears on the road even though there are none.

They changed the company rules here about 4 years ago, maybe you should check out the current company regulations about ownership and voting rights, i have heard of the different ways of getting around them but personally i am not interested unless you can tell me something i do not know which is legal

I don't know what you know, so don't know if I can tell you something you don't know. But it is easy to legally circumvent the problem you mention, but then we're talking about real companies, not just companies started with the sole purpose of owning land/house.

[petercallen]

As usual SL we agree to disagree, or tell us all how to legally circumvent the problem with any type of company

Sorry about the bold print but lots of strange things happen when i post on this forum

Edited December 12, 2012 by petercallen

[stevenl]

As usual SL we agree to disagree, or tell us all how to legally circumvent the problem with any type of company

Just contact your lawyer/business adviser.

[petercallen]

person who

As usual SL we agree to disagree, or tell us all how to legally circumvent the problem with any type of company

Just contact your lawyer/business adviser.

In Thailand you must be joking lawyer/ business adviser

I am asking a person who thinks they know

[KarenBravo]

Hasn't this subject been done several times under different guises by the OP?

Flogging a dead horse here. PC has his view on this subject and then there's all the people that do rent/lease/own property.

Edited December 12, 2012 by KarenBravo

[petercallen]

Hasn't this subject been done several times under different guises by the OP?

Flogging a dead horse here. PC has his view on this subject and then there's all the people that do rent/lease/own property.

always interested in more information from people who actually know, what do you know about owning, running or buying a business which is successful and makes money in Thailand

Edited December 12, 2012 by petercallen

[simon43]

I have a couple of successful businesses in Phuket. I lease the land in my name only for 30 years, pay no upfront key-money or rent, (except for the land tax), and my rental contract allows me to completely demolish my business buildings if I vacate the land => the landlord gets nothing and I just take my business, business name and goodwill etc to another piece of land.

I invested about 3 million baht in each business, both doing very well

Simon

[KarenBravo]

what do you know about owning, running or buying a business which is successful and makes money in Thailand

Enough to have turned a very tidy profit on every piece of land, house, or condo I have "owned" in Thailand. What about you?

[petercallen]

I have a couple of successful businesses in Phuket. I lease the land in my name only for 30 years, pay no upfront key-money or rent, (except for the land tax), and my rental contract allows me to completely demolish my business buildings if I vacate the land => the landlord gets nothing and I just take my business, business name and goodwill etc to another piece of land.

I invested about 3 million baht in each business, both doing very well

Simon

I have thought about going that way but since my money is invested elsewhere and i can own the businesses or properties freehold its not such a good idea in my opinion, no one knows what rules and regulations will change for the worse in the future

From what i have found out up to date i will not be investing in a business here but just bring money from overseas when required

You cannot buy a decent house here for 3M baht now in my opinion more like 10M

[petercallen]

what do you know about owning, running or buying a business which is successful and makes money in Thailand

Enough to have turned a very tidy profit on every piece of land, house, or condo I have "owned" in Thailand. What about you?

You bought your last property in 1999 before the massive increase in values which you posted on this forum

Yes you will make a tidy profit if you sell but probably not as much as you hope to get and then have to replace it at current inflated prices if you want to own your own property again

You have invested in property at the right time, what business have you owned here if any

[KarenBravo]

what do you know about owning, running or buying a business which is successful and makes money in Thailand

Enough to have turned a very tidy profit on every piece of land, house, or condo I have "owned" in Thailand. What about you?

You bought your last property in 1999 before the massive increase in values which you posted on this forum

Yes you will make a tidy profit if you sell but probably not as much as you hope to get and then have to replace it at current inflated prices if you want to own your own property again

You have invested in property at the right time, what business have you owned here if any

That's not the point. The point is, that I held assets that you say I shouldn't be able to own, yet, the money in my bank at the end of a sale proves that I did, for all intents and purposes own the asset.

Isn't this what this thread is about? Didn't you mention not being able to own land? Every method that I used is still available today. Land values are irrelevant to my point.

[LivinginKata]

Peter is correct - current land prices (asking price ) make for a very tough challenge for any new business to even think about buying the land freehold. That's why most of the new independent business hopefuls end up renting/leasing their business premises. Most of them run out of money in a couple of years, and can't pay their land lord. Yes, i know a few lads who work hard, run a tight business, and make money. I can't complain about my own business, all freehold owned, but I doubt I would take up that start-up challenge in today's economic climate. Land costs and over capacity in accommodation, bars, eateries/etc. That's why I cancelled my planned expansion 5 years ago. Now I 'invest' all profits into Australian hedge funds.

[hansgruber]

Peter.

Land ownership and business are completely different issues and youre getting them intertwined.

Successful companies have prospered for decades with leases (club med for example just had their first 30 years renewed) and not all landlords are eager to relieve you of the business once the lease expires.

Any lease over 3 years needs to be registered with the land department so you're pretty safe.

[KarenBravo]

It also depends on what your business is. If a bar, or restaurant, location is important and you'll pay through the nose.

If you just want to store stuff, or just need a place to make meat pies, then rent will be cheap.

[petercallen]

Peter.

Land ownership and business are completely different issues and youre getting them intertwined.

Successful companies have prospered for decades with leases (club med for example just had thert nting to stair first 30 years renewed) and not all landlords are eager to relieve you of the business once the lease expires.

Any lease over 3 years needs to be registered with the land department so you're pretty safe.

How can you compare club med to people want to start a small profitable business here

If i was interested in leasing which i am not it would have to be a 5 by 5 by 5 year lease

[KarenBravo]

Why would anyone bother to buy a piece of land in Thalang to make meat pies when they can rent?

You do know that a 5 X 5 X 5 lease is just as legal as a 30 X 30 X 30?

It isn't legal. The first lease is the only legal lease.

[hansgruber]

Peter.

Land ownership and business are completely different issues and youre getting them intertwined.

Successful companies have prospered for decades with leases (club med for example just had thert nting to stair first 30 years renewed) and not all landlords are eager to relieve you of the business once the lease expires.

Any lease over 3 years needs to be registered with the land department so you're pretty safe.

How can you compare club med to people want to start a small profitable business here

If i was interested in leasing which i am not it would have to be a 5 by 5 by 5 year lease

Its an example. The owners of club med land could kick them out and have a well established business ready to go but they didn't.

Its all in the lease. Get a term that's acceptable to you or walk away.

Not everyone wants to has the means to spend 40+ million just on land and leases suit.

Its personal preference peter, some have the need to buy (yourself and I included) and other are happy to lease and play it by ear.

Completely different end of the investment scale.

[petercallen]

It also depends on what your business is. If a bar, or restaurant, location is impont and you'll pay through the nose.

If you just want to store stuff, or just need a place to make meat pies, then rent will be cheap.

I do not agree i think there is a opening here for someone who wanted to open a self storage business

with reasonable prices in the right location, who would even think about opening a bar, restaurants or guesthouses here there are far to many established ones already and a lot of those are for sale if they can find a buyer

Edited December 12, 2012 by petercallen

[petercallen]

Why would anyone bother to buy a piece of land in Thalang to make meat pies when they can rent?

You do know that a 5 X 5 X 5 lease is just as legal as a 30 X 30 X 30?

It isn't legal. The first lease is the only legal lease.

Yes i do no and as i have stated i am not interested in leasing only owning if having a business at all

The more i learn the less interested i am in having a business here

Edited December 12, 2012 by petercallen

[petercallen]

Peter.

Land ownership and business are completely different issues and youre getting them intertwined.

Successful companies have prospered for decades with leases (club med for example just had thert nting to stair first 30 years renewed) and not all landlords are eager to relieve you of the business once the lease expires.

Any lease over 3 years needs to be registered with the land department so you're pretty safe.

How can you compare club med to people want to start a small profitable business here

If i was interested in leasing which i am not it would have to be a 5 by 5 by 5 year lease

Its an example. The owners of club med land could kick them out and have a well established business ready to go but they didn't.

Its all in the lease. Get a term that's acceptable to you or walk away.

Not everyone wants to has the means to spend 40+ million just on land and leases suit.

Its personal preference peter, some have the need to buy (yourself and I included) and other are happy to lease and play it by ear.

Completely different end of the investment scale.

I am sure club med would not have opened here without a guaranteed renewal of lease