Americans Fight For Right To Bear Arms - At Work

[DocN]

I am loving the posts here.

Here is mine.. I had a conceled weapons permit when in the USAF. It had a reason on it, it said "For Hunting and Fishing".

More than once I was asked by law enforcement why I had a 45 acp in a shoulder holster for hunting and fishing. My reply was ya never know when you might want to hunt.

This is one of the posts where I begin to think it just makes no sense, to talk to people like you.

The problem is: no matter where I am in the world, I will hear about the next Sandy Hooks and I will feel sad, angry, disturbed and irritated about it!

It affects me in my daily life!

Yeah...it is yours, the greatest nation on earth and the best democracy ever (I am still interested: based on WHAT?) and only you have the right, to make your mind up about it and everybody else should better shut up

Mind you: the glorious USA is not a bubble, floating to space!

It is connected to the rest of the world.

As soon as you can keep your horror- stories of sickos, shooting 20 school-children with guns his mommy legally bought or other sickos, who set up traps for fire-men, all to YOURSELF and your bubble, you seem to live in...I will immedeatly stop, telling you my opinion.

You can't do that?

Fine...so you will have to listen to my communist, fascist, liberal (...gosh...I wish you would decide) opinion on an open forum.

Have a gun to hunt and fish? What are you fishing with it?

...and your answer...hahaha...so witty and funny!

Only: it is exactly the kind of answer, that would make me take away that gun, because it is childish and you OBVIOUSLY don't have that gun for neither hunting, nor fishing!

[simple1]

I am loving the posts here.

Here is mine.. I had a conceled weapons permit when in the USAF. It had a reason on it, it said "For Hunting and Fishing".

More than once I was asked by law enforcement why I had a 45 acp in a shoulder holster for hunting and fishing. My reply was ya never know when you might want to hunt.

Law enforcement actually let you go after making that threatening comment? Didn't they detain you for mental health assessment?

[NeverSure]

The OP headline is a very misleading "Americans fight to take their guns to work." It surely sounds different from them simply wanting to be able to leave them locked in a car in the parking lot.

In the US you can't take a gun onto someone else's private property if you are forbidden. I could put up signs or send employees a memo, and if they brought the gun anyway, they would then be a criminal trespasser. If not first forbidden which is easily done with a sign on any doors or otherwise, then I may carry it. Even after I arrive with it I can still be asked to remove it from the property and I must.

Places of employment are private property. A rented or leased property is the property for this purpose of the renter. An employer may forbid guns on his parking lot or on his premises, even by customers.

I appreciate Starbucks. They actively encourage customers to carry guns. They feel they are safer surrounded by armed citizens, but then so would I. Starbuck's own website. Starbucks openly allows "open" carry too, which means the gun is exposed. They are politically correct smart enough businessmen not to say they "encourage" it, but they actively "allow" it when they could deny it on the basis of private property rights.

Coffee shops used to give free coffee and donuts to police officers to encourage them to take breaks there. Now that's considered improper so it isn't done that I know of, but the owners liked having armed guards for the price of a donut.

I cannot for the life of me understand why people are afraid of honest people having a gun, when we all know the criminals will.

I cannot for the life of me understand posters above who criticize how a woman with two children handled the answering or not answering of a door at her home. She shouldn't have even been put into that position in the first place by the career criminal who tried to commit suicide by breaking down her door with a crowbar. She had no obligation to do anything one way or the other until she found out her kids were harmed and maybe she was raped and killed.

She had no obligation to that man. Her obligation was to herself and her children.

[simple1]

I am loving the posts here.

Here is mine.. I had a conceled weapons permit when in the USAF. It had a reason on it, it said "For Hunting and Fishing".

More than once I was asked by law enforcement why I had a 45 acp in a shoulder holster for hunting and fishing. My reply was ya never know when you might want to hunt.

Law enforcement actually let you go after making that threatening comment? Didn't they detain you for mental health assessment?

Law enforcement isn't even allowed to ask you if you have a gun. If they do you don't have to answer. You have rights to remain silent and they can't detain you, which means hold you long enough to ask a question, without "probable cause." Police get sued for false arrest, and stopping you and making you stand there is an arrest.

If an officer wants to question me at all, my response is "officer, am I under arrest, or am I free to go?" It is one or the other and the officer knows it. I must sit still for a traffic citation, but that is a quasi-arrest. During that stop I don't have to allow a search of myself or my vehicle. I don't have to do more than produce my driver's license and my insurance proof. I can totally remain silent.

My license to carry a handgun is a state license, good in all counties of the state and trumps every cop in the state. The legislature and therefore the law is telling the cop I can carry it and it's none of his business.

90 million of us Americans owning about 250 million guns want to have power over our government, and do not agree to be their serfs.

I know the US constitution does not enable national referendums, but if this was ever enacted and the majority of US citizens voted for a total ban on military style semi automatic weapons and large capacity magazines you would break the law and not comply?

[DocN]

I am loving the posts here.

Here is mine.. I had a conceled weapons permit when in the USAF. It had a reason on it, it said "For Hunting and Fishing".

More than once I was asked by law enforcement why I had a 45 acp in a shoulder holster for hunting and fishing. My reply was ya never know when you might want to hunt.

Law enforcement actually let you go after making that threatening comment? Didn't they detain you for mental health assessment?

Law enforcement isn't even allowed to ask you if you have a gun. If they do you don't have to answer. You have rights to remain silent and they can't detain you, which means hold you long enough to ask a question, without "probable cause." Police get sued for false arrest, and stopping you and making you stand there is an arrest.

If an officer wants to question me at all, my response is "officer, am I under arrest, or am I free to go?" It is one or the other and the officer knows it. I must sit still for a traffic citation, but that is a quasi-arrest. During that stop I don't have to allow a search of myself or my vehicle. I don't have to do more than produce my driver's license and my insurance proof. I can totally remain silent.

My license to carry a handgun is a state license, good in all counties of the state and trumps every cop in the state. The legislature and therefore the law is telling the cop I can carry it and it's none of his business.

90 million of us Americans owning about 250 million guns want to have power over our government, and do not agree to be their serfs.

But you get the point, don't you?

This idiot is having a license for a gun for hunting and fishing. Fine...good for him!

a) he carries around that "gun" in a shoulder holster. Explain to me, what kind of hunting (or fishing???) gun, is carried around in a shoulder holster? As far as I am concerned, the license and the gun do not match! Seems like laws on gun control...hmmm...nah...not working!

b ) he is asked and he choose to answer....and THAT is his answer? I can practically see it before me! "Well, son...why is it you have your hunting gun *wink wink* in a shoulder holster?" "Well officer...you never know, what/ when/ where to hunt *wink wink*"

If there was any kind of working gun- control and I would be the cop, my next reply would be "Ooooookay...so I confiscate this gun, since it is obvioulsy not the one you have a license for! Have a nice day!"...but, hey...I am just a liberal fascist commy, who does not know that guns and cars are practically the same!

Edited January 9, 2013 by Scott

[DocN]

Yeah...you CAN also go hunting with a AK-47 or with a Leopard Tank!

But that is not the point, isn't it?!

If you have a licence for a HUNTING GUN, you should have a HUNTING GUN!

If you have a drivers licence (just to keep with the popular gun/car- comparrisson!) for a motorbike, you are not allowed to drive a 18-wheeler truck.

And you know that...because you know everything!

[DocN]

I am loving the posts here.

Here is mine.. I had a conceled weapons permit when in the USAF. It had a reason on it, it said "For Hunting and Fishing".

More than once I was asked by law enforcement why I had a 45 acp in a shoulder holster for hunting and fishing. My reply was ya never know when you might want to hunt.

This is one of the posts where I begin to think it just makes no sense, to talk to people like you.

Suggestion:

1. Right click "Start"

2. Right click "Turn off computer"

3. Right click "Turn off"

Problem solved.

Good for you...have a nice day!

[NeverSure]

Yeah...you CAN also go hunting with a AK-47 or with a Leopard Tank!

But that is not the point, isn't it?!

If you have a licence for a HUNTING GUN, you should have a HUNTING GUN!

If you have a drivers licence (just to keep with the popular gun/car- comparrisson!) for a motorbike, you are not allowed to drive a 18-wheeler truck.

And you know that...because you know everything!

When you are completely ignorant of the laws and the culture, you might want to remain silent and hide the fact.

Once you have a license to carry a concealed weapon, you have a license. It isn't for just one gun or limited to the purpose for which you applied. If I apply asking for it for defense, do you believe I can't then use it to hunt? A state license to carry a concealed handgun is good all over the state 24/7. And yes, I "could" carry it "just in case" I wanted to hunt or target shoot but that's not the point. Once I have the license I may just carry it.

[Chicog]

90 million of us Americans owning about 250 million guns want to have power over our government, and do not agree to be their serfs.

You already have power over your government. It's called the vote.

You've been listening to too much Alex Jones.

[NeverSure]

I'm outta this one too. It's been fun but I've said all I can to try to explain what I believe. Each can have his own opinion of course.

[DocN]

I am totally baffled.

There is a background check on your criminal record...and THAT IS IT?

You can buy ANYTHING avaiable on the free market, with ONE licence?

Those are no rules AT ALL and the gun- nuts are screaming bloody murder, if those NON-RULES are being tightened?

Sorry, guys...you are downright crazy!

Good luck with the next mass- shooting and good luck with the next 5year old who has his face removed when daddies 44 Magnum accidentallt goes off!

[endure]

A post discussing moderation has been removed:

21) Not to discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy. Members should not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension.

[Naam]

I am totally baffled.

There is a background check on your criminal record...and THAT IS IT?

You can buy ANYTHING avaiable on the free market, with ONE licence?

Those are no rules AT ALL and the gun- nuts are screaming bloody murder, if those NON-RULES are being tightened?

Sorry, guys...you are downright crazy!

Good luck with the next mass- shooting and good luck with the next 5year old who has his face removed when daddies 44 Magnum accidentallt goes off!

i wonder what gives you the right to call Americans crazy because their constitution gives them the right to bear arms.

by the way, no background check when you go to the next flea market and buy whatever is offered there (talking about a decade ago). i bought for my brother, who is a collector, a number of beautiful old weapons for a fistful of dollars which are worth a fortune in Europe.

[F430murci]

I am totally baffled.

There is a background check on your criminal record...and THAT IS IT?

You can buy ANYTHING avaiable on the free market, with ONE licence?

Those are no rules AT ALL and the gun- nuts are screaming bloody murder, if those NON-RULES are being tightened?

Sorry, guys...you are downright crazy!

Good luck with the next mass- shooting and good luck with the next 5year old who has his face removed when daddies 44 Magnum accidentallt goes off!

i wonder what gives you the right to call Americans crazy because their constitution gives them the right to bear arms.

by the way, no background check when you go to the next flea market and buy whatever is offered there (talking about a decade ago). i bought for my brother, who is a collector, a number of beautiful old weapons for a fistful of dollars which are worth a fortune in Europe.

Therein lies the problem. No background checks for certain avenues of purchase. My only grip is closing these loopholes, require background checks and registration on all sales (even from private individuals), require at least mental compentency question which if answered falsely is a felony (if answered in affirmative, then they can requests a release for records or just deny) and ban AR-15 and AK knockoff semi autos and large capacity clips.

Seriously, no one needs an AR or a five seventy pistol. Can still have fun with normal stuff.

And to those that keep saying Obama wants to take guns away . . . no. Todat they said he really is just in favor of requiring background checks and some checks and balances on mental status (no elaboration) and looking to ban large capacity clips (no elaboration on size). Obama, however, did not say anything about AR-15 type assualt weapons being banned.

Haha, I think I will just defer to the politicians and retire from gun debate days . . . lest I might buy a gun and shoot myself. I can kick enough ass if necessary without a gun and never feel the need to even lock my doors whether home or not home . . . God bless America and thank God I don't live in Kentucky.

[LomSak27]

Obama wants to take guns away

Right ... in his first time Obama said yep sure you gun nuts go ahead take your guns into National Parks, yep sure take your guns on crowded commuter trains.

But Rumour has it all this pro gun legislation of Obama was only to bait the trap for gun owners .... .well that is according to the NRA. That of course before what happend in Sandy Hook

[Scott]

This thread is getting further and further off the original topic. If you want the discussion to continue then It would be a good idea to keep your remarks civil. There have been a lot of posts deleted. If you have nothing further to say, then stop posting.

[Scott]

A post has been deleted. Please follow the rules, including this one:

21) Not to discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy. Members should not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension.

[DocN]

I am totally baffled.

There is a background check on your criminal record...and THAT IS IT?

You can buy ANYTHING avaiable on the free market, with ONE licence?

Those are no rules AT ALL and the gun- nuts are screaming bloody murder, if those NON-RULES are being tightened?

Sorry, guys...you are downright crazy!

Good luck with the next mass- shooting and good luck with the next 5year old who has his face removed when daddies 44 Magnum accidentallt goes off!

i wonder what gives you the right to call Americans crazy because their constitution gives them the right to bear arms.

by the way, no background check when you go to the next flea market and buy whatever is offered there (talking about a decade ago). i bought for my brother, who is a collector, a number of beautiful old weapons for a fistful of dollars which are worth a fortune in Europe.

1) I take the right to express my opinion on an open forum. The results of USA gun- laws are in my face, they disturb me and affect me.

2) I didn't say ALL Americans crazy. But crazy are those, who critcize laws as stringent, that are basically non existing. You "get" a license -as I understand- by paying for it. And then you venture out to buy any gun you like. No test, if you are able to handle it, maintain it or store it. You get background checked on your criminal record, but not on your psychological ability to handle a gun. You will not be checked, if you are living with children and safely store the gun out of their reach, or if you may live with mentally unstable people and store the gun away from them.

3) If I understand correctly, NO ONE is able to EVER check on you and your gun.

...and THAT and people who defend that as "enough" or even "already too much" ...crazy!

And the second part of your response: exactly my point! Lax gun- laws all the way, loopholes and endless posibilities for any kind of psycho to get hand on guns.

[canman]

Meanwhile scientists have intitiated a study to try and understand how Canadians can buy and own firearms without shooting each other

Edited January 10, 2013 by canman

[Naam]

1) I take the right to express my opinion on an open forum. The results of USA gun- laws are in my face, they disturb me and affect me.

2) I didn't say ALL Americans crazy. But crazy are those, who critcize laws as stringent, that are basically non existing. You "get" a license -as I understand- by paying for it. And then you venture out to buy any gun you like. No test, if you are able to handle it, maintain it or store it. You get background checked on your criminal record, but not on your psychological ability to handle a gun. You will not be checked, if you are living with children and safely store the gun out of their reach, or if you may live with mentally unstable people and store the gun away from them.

3) If I understand correctly, NO ONE is able to EVER check on you and your gun.

...and THAT and people who defend that as "enough" or even "already too much" ...crazy!

And the second part of your response: exactly my point! Lax gun- laws all the way, loopholes and endless posibilities for any kind of psycho to get hand on guns.

1. i humbly apologise. didn't know that an american gun affected you. in which part of your body did you receive a bullet?

[DocN]

1) I take the right to express my opinion on an open forum. The results of USA gun- laws are in my face, they disturb me and affect me.

2) I didn't say ALL Americans crazy. But crazy are those, who critcize laws as stringent, that are basically non existing. You "get" a license -as I understand- by paying for it. And then you venture out to buy any gun you like. No test, if you are able to handle it, maintain it or store it. You get background checked on your criminal record, but not on your psychological ability to handle a gun. You will not be checked, if you are living with children and safely store the gun out of their reach, or if you may live with mentally unstable people and store the gun away from them.

3) If I understand correctly, NO ONE is able to EVER check on you and your gun.

...and THAT and people who defend that as "enough" or even "already too much" ...crazy!

And the second part of your response: exactly my point! Lax gun- laws all the way, loopholes and endless posibilities for any kind of psycho to get hand on guns.

1. i humbly apologise. didn't know that an american gun affected you. in which part of your body did you receive a bullet?

Okay...back to basics: not one gun has affected me personally in my whole life, thank you!

But if you would care to READ and engage some brain activity, you might see the following: I said THE RESULTS....are in my face and disturb me and affect me. Results as in "20 dead first- graders", "2 dead firemen" etc etc etc.

[chuckd]

I am totally baffled.

There is a background check on your criminal record...and THAT IS IT?

You can buy ANYTHING avaiable on the free market, with ONE licence?

Those are no rules AT ALL and the gun- nuts are screaming bloody murder, if those NON-RULES are being tightened?

Sorry, guys...you are downright crazy!

Good luck with the next mass- shooting and good luck with the next 5year old who has his face removed when daddies 44 Magnum accidentallt goes off!

i wonder what gives you the right to call Americans crazy because their constitution gives them the right to bear arms.

by the way, no background check when you go to the next flea market and buy whatever is offered there (talking about a decade ago). i bought for my brother, who is a collector, a number of beautiful old weapons for a fistful of dollars which are worth a fortune in Europe.

1) I take the right to express my opinion on an open forum. The results of USA gun- laws are in my face, they disturb me and affect me.

2) I didn't say ALL Americans crazy. But crazy are those, who critcize laws as stringent, that are basically non existing. You "get" a license -as I understand- by paying for it. And then you venture out to buy any gun you like. No test, if you are able to handle it, maintain it or store it. You get background checked on your criminal record, but not on your psychological ability to handle a gun. You will not be checked, if you are living with children and safely store the gun out of their reach, or if you may live with mentally unstable people and store the gun away from them.

3) If I understand correctly, NO ONE is able to EVER check on you and your gun.

...and THAT and people who defend that as "enough" or even "already too much" ...crazy!

And the second part of your response: exactly my point! Lax gun- laws all the way, loopholes and endless posibilities for any kind of psycho to get hand on guns.

A couple of items concerning your last post.

1. You would seem to be using the First Amendment to try and do away with the Second Amendment. Having said that, I fail to understand how US gun laws are "in your face". You have admitted your German nationality and you are posting on a Thai forum so I would have to assume you are residing in either Germany or Thailand. I fail to understand how ANY US law could be "in your face" unless you are living in, or planning to travel to, the US. I am an American citizen living in Thailand so the Second Amendment currently affects me only through my adult children who currently reside in the US. One is a military officer and the other is a gun owner so they are protected by the Second Amendment. I have no gun in Thailand.

2. While you didn't claim ALL Americans are crazy, you did seem to imply those that support gun rights are. Since there are some 45 million adult legal gun owners, your blanket "crazy" statement would seem to encompass those 45 million.

Further you state gun laws are non-existent in the US and, "as you understand it", citizens get a gun license by forking over the money to buy one. Here are two links you might read to familiarize yourself with these so-called non-existent gun laws. There are plenty of laws on the books.

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state

Unfortunately the criminals don't follow the gun laws where they live. That is why they are called criminals.

PS: My apologies for using Wikipedia but these links will take you anywhere you want to go if you wish to become familiar with gun laws.

Like UFOs...Gun laws exist and they are real.

Edit in: Oops, I see you posted while I was composing my latest missive. I now see why you believe gun laws are "in your face". Now, what I don't understand is why, if these incidents so visibly upset you, do you even read them in the first place?

Edited January 10, 2013 by chuckd

[Naam]

Okay...back to basics: not one gun has affected me personally in my whole life, thank you!

But if you would care to READ and engage some brain activity, you might see the following: I said THE RESULTS....are in my face and disturb me and affect me. Results as in "20 dead first- graders", "2 dead firemen" etc etc etc.

humble questions:

-how disturbed and affected where you when several thousand Tutsi first-graders and later several thousand Hutu first-graders were killed?

-and may i ask whether it disturbs or affects you that daily on a global scale hundreds of first-graders (a conservative estimate!) starve to death or die because they lack medical treatment?

[DocN]

I am totally baffled.

There is a background check on your criminal record...and THAT IS IT?

You can buy ANYTHING avaiable on the free market, with ONE licence?

Those are no rules AT ALL and the gun- nuts are screaming bloody murder, if those NON-RULES are being tightened?

Sorry, guys...you are downright crazy!

Good luck with the next mass- shooting and good luck with the next 5year old who has his face removed when daddies 44 Magnum accidentallt goes off!

i wonder what gives you the right to call Americans crazy because their constitution gives them the right to bear arms.

by the way, no background check when you go to the next flea market and buy whatever is offered there (talking about a decade ago). i bought for my brother, who is a collector, a number of beautiful old weapons for a fistful of dollars which are worth a fortune in Europe.

1) I take the right to express my opinion on an open forum. The results of USA gun- laws are in my face, they disturb me and affect me.

2) I didn't say ALL Americans crazy. But crazy are those, who critcize laws as stringent, that are basically non existing. You "get" a license -as I understand- by paying for it. And then you venture out to buy any gun you like. No test, if you are able to handle it, maintain it or store it. You get background checked on your criminal record, but not on your psychological ability to handle a gun. You will not be checked, if you are living with children and safely store the gun out of their reach, or if you may live with mentally unstable people and store the gun away from them.

3) If I understand correctly, NO ONE is able to EVER check on you and your gun.

...and THAT and people who defend that as "enough" or even "already too much" ...crazy!

And the second part of your response: exactly my point! Lax gun- laws all the way, loopholes and endless posibilities for any kind of psycho to get hand on guns.

A couple of items concerning your last post.

1. You would seem to be using the First Amendment to try and do away with the Second Amendment. Having said that, I fail to understand how US gun laws are "in your face". You have admitted your German nationality and you are posting on a Thai forum so I would have to assume you are residing in either Germany or Thailand. I fail to understand how ANY US law could be "in your face" unless you are living in, or planning to travel to, the US. I am an American citizen living in Thailand so the Second Amendment currently affects me only through my adult children who currently reside in the US. One is a military officer and the other is a gun owner so they are protected by the Second Amendment. I have no gun in Thailand.

2. While you didn't claim ALL Americans are crazy, you did seem to imply those that support gun rights are. Since there are some 45 million adult legal gun owners, your blanket "crazy" statement would seem to encompass those 45 million.

Further you state gun laws are non-existent in the US and, "as you understand it", citizens get a gun license by forking over the money to buy one. Here are two links you might read to familiarize yourself with these so-called non-existent gun laws. There are plenty of laws on the books.

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state

Unfortunately the criminals don't follow the gun laws where they live. That is why they are called criminals.

PS: My apologies for using Wikipedia but these links will take you anywhere you want to go if you wish to become familiar with gun laws.

Like UFOs...Gun laws exist and they are real.

Edit in: Oops, I see you posted while I was composing my latest missive. I now see why you believe gun laws are "in your face". Now, what I don't understand is why, if these incidents so visibly upset you, do you even read them in the first place?

By ( I guess deliberately) missquoting and missunderstanding myself, you are not helping anyone.

- the result of the laws are in my face, with children, firemen etc. being murdered.

The mother of the Sandy Hooks shooter legally bought her guns, no one cared to check if it was "okay" to give her those guns and if she stored them safely, in a household she shared with a mentally unstable person.

The RESULT are more than 20 innocent little children who are DEAD! And that outrages me and it is in my face! And I believe, that by stricter laws, cases like this COULD be prevented in the future. And IF that means to alter the second amendement, then the US-citizens have to make a choice.

- as someone told me yesterday, there are many different gun laws, from state to state. I have read your links and they seem to underline one thing: there is no ONE gun law, which already is a joke, as you can buy a gun in one state and bring it to another state etc.

Further: no background check on families with small children, if guns are safely stored, no chekc on families with menatlly instable family member, very soft checks in person-to- person (second hand) dealing.

My suggestion would be first of all a FEDERAL LAW...and I already hear someone howling about taking the right of the state XY away...commie....nazi...liberal....

[DocN]

Okay...back to basics: not one gun has affected me personally in my whole life, thank you!

But if you would care to READ and engage some brain activity, you might see the following: I said THE RESULTS....are in my face and disturb me and affect me. Results as in "20 dead first- graders", "2 dead firemen" etc etc etc.

humble questions:

-how disturbed and affected where you when several thousand Tutsi first-graders and later several thousand Hutu first-graders were killed?

-and may i ask whether it disturbs or affects you that daily on a global scale hundreds of first-graders (a conservative estimate!) starve to death or die because they lack medical treatment?

Yes...both disturbs and disturbed me.

It also disturbs me, that people in Dafur are dieing every day.

That people in even parts of Europe have no clean drinking water.

That children in Europe or elsewhere are living below the poverty line.

It is a shame, that in 2013 these things are even possible, when some few people are so rich that they don't even know whet to do with their money!

Therefor I am a member of a number of charity- organisations.

It is called empathy...and I guess, it is off topic....But I am happy to answer you.

I hope, you feel offended by that too!

It's called empathy and

[dhrobertson]

I need to select my words carefully.

However, I WILL get my point across no matter how many attempts it takes.

With so many Americans demanding the right to own military type firearms (spare me the lectures on terminology) it seems their society is substantially anarchistic

I can not accept that a society which does not permit plebiscites is in anyway democratic.

I do believe that a majority of Americans share the same degree of horror as the rest of us but feel powerless to do anything.

Hanging on to arcane but apparently unchangeable inappropriate law such as the second amendment is frankly embarrassing

Now here's the contentious thing, I really do believe that these issues stem from the fact that we are dealing with a young country here. The frontier, pioneering spirit is still there. The country has not had the centuries of democracy that has shaped so many other societies.

Too many seem to look at lethal weapons as playthings to be admired, polished and shown off. How immature.

Leave the leathal weapons to the armed forces.

Build a police force you can trust.

If you want a gun, buy a spud gun.or a Lone Ranger silver six shooter with caps. Ask your mum to buy you one.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Scott

[Naam]

Okay...back to basics: not one gun has affected me personally in my whole life, thank you!

But if you would care to READ and engage some brain activity, you might see the following: I said THE RESULTS....are in my face and disturb me and affect me. Results as in "20 dead first- graders", "2 dead firemen" etc etc etc.

humble questions:

-how disturbed and affected where you when several thousand Tutsi first-graders and later several thousand Hutu first-graders were killed?

-and may i ask whether it disturbs or affects you that daily on a global scale hundreds of first-graders (a conservative estimate!) starve to death or die because they lack medical treatment?

Yes...both disturbs and disturbed me.

It also disturbs me, that people in Dafur are dieing every day.

That people in even parts of Europe have no clean drinking water.

That children in Europe or elsewhere are living below the poverty line.

It is a shame, that in 2013 these things are even possible, when some few people are so rich that they don't even know whet to do with their money!

Therefor I am a member of a number of charity- organisations.

It is called empathy...and I guess, it is off topic....But I am happy to answer you.

I hope, you feel offended by that too!

It's called empathy and

please give me one valid reason, oh disturbed-one, why should i be offended that you support charity organisations or why any other claim you made should have offended me? i asked a few rational and logical questions which i think were justified. based on your perspective you answered them but without offending me.

[chuckd]

i wonder what gives you the right to call Americans crazy because their constitution gives them the right to bear arms.

by the way, no background check when you go to the next flea market and buy whatever is offered there (talking about a decade ago). i bought for my brother, who is a collector, a number of beautiful old weapons for a fistful of dollars which are worth a fortune in Europe.

1) I take the right to express my opinion on an open forum. The results of USA gun- laws are in my face, they disturb me and affect me.

2) I didn't say ALL Americans crazy. But crazy are those, who critcize laws as stringent, that are basically non existing. You "get" a license -as I understand- by paying for it. And then you venture out to buy any gun you like. No test, if you are able to handle it, maintain it or store it. You get background checked on your criminal record, but not on your psychological ability to handle a gun. You will not be checked, if you are living with children and safely store the gun out of their reach, or if you may live with mentally unstable people and store the gun away from them.

3) If I understand correctly, NO ONE is able to EVER check on you and your gun.

...and THAT and people who defend that as "enough" or even "already too much" ...crazy!

And the second part of your response: exactly my point! Lax gun- laws all the way, loopholes and endless posibilities for any kind of psycho to get hand on guns.

A couple of items concerning your last post.

1. You would seem to be using the First Amendment to try and do away with the Second Amendment. Having said that, I fail to understand how US gun laws are "in your face". You have admitted your German nationality and you are posting on a Thai forum so I would have to assume you are residing in either Germany or Thailand. I fail to understand how ANY US law could be "in your face" unless you are living in, or planning to travel to, the US. I am an American citizen living in Thailand so the Second Amendment currently affects me only through my adult children who currently reside in the US. One is a military officer and the other is a gun owner so they are protected by the Second Amendment. I have no gun in Thailand.

2. While you didn't claim ALL Americans are crazy, you did seem to imply those that support gun rights are. Since there are some 45 million adult legal gun owners, your blanket "crazy" statement would seem to encompass those 45 million.

Further you state gun laws are non-existent in the US and, "as you understand it", citizens get a gun license by forking over the money to buy one. Here are two links you might read to familiarize yourself with these so-called non-existent gun laws. There are plenty of laws on the books.

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state

Unfortunately the criminals don't follow the gun laws where they live. That is why they are called criminals.

PS: My apologies for using Wikipedia but these links will take you anywhere you want to go if you wish to become familiar with gun laws.

Like UFOs...Gun laws exist and they are real.

Edit in: Oops, I see you posted while I was composing my latest missive. I now see why you believe gun laws are "in your face". Now, what I don't understand is why, if these incidents so visibly upset you, do you even read them in the first place?

By ( I guess deliberately) missquoting and missunderstanding myself, you are not helping anyone.

- the result of the laws are in my face, with children, firemen etc. being murdered.

The mother of the Sandy Hooks shooter legally bought her guns, no one cared to check if it was "okay" to give her those guns and if she stored them safely, in a household she shared with a mentally unstable person.

The RESULT are more than 20 innocent little children who are DEAD! And that outrages me and it is in my face! And I believe, that by stricter laws, cases like this COULD be prevented in the future. And IF that means to alter the second amendement, then the US-citizens have to make a choice.

- as someone told me yesterday, there are many different gun laws, from state to state. I have read your links and they seem to underline one thing: there is no ONE gun law, which already is a joke, as you can buy a gun in one state and bring it to another state etc.

Further: no background check on families with small children, if guns are safely stored, no chekc on families with menatlly instable family member, very soft checks in person-to- person (second hand) dealing.

My suggestion would be first of all a FEDERAL LAW...and I already hear someone howling about taking the right of the state XY away...commie....nazi...liberal....

Just a couple of items and then I am through with you.

First I have not misquoted you. I sometimes tend to delete certain parts of posts that are not pertinent to an answer I wish to provide. If you consider that misquoting then you are mistaken. You are correct, I do "misunderstand" you.

My first link in Wikipedia was to the Federal laws on the books at this time, but you are incorrect with your statement that there is not ONE Federal law that deals with gun ownership.

There is, in fact, ONE law that spells this out.

It is called the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

[noob7]

Imagine if they raised taxes a smidgen.

They could afford to pay more police and provide better teachers in schools so kids didn't end up in cycles or poverty and crime.

This is outsourcing of law enforcement pure and simple. Yep, but the Republicans would outsource their mother if they could.

If they are being consistent with their philisophy, they should downsize the military too.

But a smaller army wouldn't need so many new weapons, every now and then!

[DocN]

Okay...back to basics: not one gun has affected me personally in my whole life, thank you!

But if you would care to READ and engage some brain activity, you might see the following: I said THE RESULTS....are in my face and disturb me and affect me. Results as in "20 dead first- graders", "2 dead firemen" etc etc etc.

humble questions:

-how disturbed and affected where you when several thousand Tutsi first-graders and later several thousand Hutu first-graders were killed?

-and may i ask whether it disturbs or affects you that daily on a global scale hundreds of first-graders (a conservative estimate!) starve to death or die because they lack medical treatment?

Yes...both disturbs and disturbed me.

It also disturbs me, that people in Dafur are dieing every day.

That people in even parts of Europe have no clean drinking water.

That children in Europe or elsewhere are living below the poverty line.

It is a shame, that in 2013 these things are even possible, when some few people are so rich that they don't even know whet to do with their money!

Therefor I am a member of a number of charity- organisations.

It is called empathy...and I guess, it is off topic....But I am happy to answer you.

I hope, you feel offended by that too!

It's called empathy and

please give me one valid reason, oh disturbed-one, why should i be offended that you support charity organisations or why any other claim you made should have offended me? i asked a few rational and logical questions which i think were justified. based on your perspective you answered them but without offending me.

I am sorry, I choose some wrong wordings. I hope, oh Master of Sarcasm, you are offended by the horrible things I mentioned...not by charities I choose to attend.