Asiatique Dual Thai/falang Pricing Gets Some Pushback!

[craigt3365]

For the rose tinted eyeglass wearers, I will say this. In absolutely no other country is there a 400% markup for tourists. My personal pet peeve on this subject are the dual priced menus. When questioned on this once several years ago, the chump claimed that the dish price being lower on the thai script menu was due to them providing a smaller portion to the Thais.

These markups exist world wide. I've seen it in many countries. Don't know the exact percentage markup, but it's quite common.

Google " dual pricing for foreigners tourists". I was amazed at the hits. Bulgaria, Taiwan, Zimbabwe, Iran, Argentina, etc. Very, very common. And very much hated by tourists. Obviously....

[falang07]

I just ignore the dual priced attractions, that's the only way to teach them a lesson.

[Hedghog]

If you can't afford the admission,just don't go.

Its not what you could call expensive.

[Hedghog]

If you really,so desperate,for discounts.

Get Thai citizenship.

After the expense of that venture,you will need many many visits,to see a gain on expenditure.

[lovelaos]

Excellent web site exposing 'hidden' dual pricing:-

here

This link should feature on every tour operator, travel agent and airline website about Thailand. Kudos to the people who maintain the site. I salute the endeavour.

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but when I tried to go to the linked website (http://www.2pricethailand.com), I got a "Warning: Suspicious Site" from my McAfee Antivirus Plus. Said it "found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors." Don't know exactly what.

My Kasperspy blocked it also.

[Finlaco]

If you really,so desperate,for discounts.

Get Thai citizenship.

After the expense of that venture,you will need many many visits,to see a gain on expenditure.

perhaps the nature of the discussion is beyond ur intellect and cognitive abilities - the issue is dual pricing and not whether the cost is prohibitive

[samran]

If you really,so desperate,for discounts.

Get Thai citizenship.

After the expense of that venture,you will need many many visits,to see a gain on expenditure.

Yes, the fee if one is succesful is 5,000 odd baht. A burden for many here on TV I am sure.

[Payboy]

Asiatique

Won't go there again until they get rid of the sewer stink.

[HappyInCM]

Dual pricing is illegal.

Really? It seems to be quite common here in Thailand. I've also seen it all over the rest of the world. Setup as a "locals" discount.

I've seen it too......a price for locals and a higher price for tourists. They know where you're from by looking at your driver's license. Universities in the USA have triple pricing........in-state, out-of-state and international students. I've also seen discounts for senior citizens and military personnel.

I've heard of in/out of state for state universities. Never heard of intl rates. Do u have a link? These are however govt institutions that get money from people's taxes. No comparison.

[doontp]

Dual pricing is illegal.

Really? It seems to be quite common here in Thailand. I've also seen it all over the rest of the world. Setup as a "locals" discount.

I've seen it too......a price for locals and a higher price for tourists. They know where you're from by looking at your driver's license. Universities in the USA have triple pricing........in-state, out-of-state and international students. I've also seen discounts for senior citizens and military personnel.

I've heard of in/out of state for state universities. Never heard of intl rates. Do u have a link? These are however govt institutions that get money from people's taxes. No comparison.

I just pulled these links up on google.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/page/internationalfees

http://www.universitiesintheusa.com/international-student-fees.html

[Tomtomtom69]

There is a thread called "Name and Shame" on Tripadvisor now, inviting members to submit the names of establishments that practise dual-pricing.

http://www.tripadvis...ad-Bangkok.html

Looks like that have targeted Siam Ocean World's facebook page for their dual-pricing...150% more for foreigners? Some comments already popping up there. This could get interesting if the social site crowd turns their attention to other dual-pricers. Here is their facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/SiamOceanWorld

The ironic thing about Siam Ocean World is their management is, or at least was (back in 2008-2009 anyway) made up of 2 Aussies, one of whom was Brett Gannoway. I'm wondering if he had to pay more to enter the very establishment he was managing! Strange that he and his other Aussie managing partner didn't try to do away with the dual pricing.

[Baloo22]

There is a thread called "Name and Shame" on Tripadvisor now, inviting members to submit the names of establishments that practise dual-pricing. http://www.tripadvis...ad-Bangkok.html Looks like that have targeted Siam Ocean World's facebook page for their dual-pricing...150% more for foreigners? Some comments already popping up there.

This could get interesting if the social site crowd turns their attention to other dual-pricers. Here is their facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/SiamOceanWorld

Looks like Tripadvisor has zapped that page. Followed the link and all it says now is "This content has been removed."

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I wrestle with what to think of the dual pricing issue for tourist attractions... On one hand, the notion of it feels inherently wrong.

On the other hand, the average income for Thais is vastly less than for the average farang, and likely an even greater disparity for the average farang tourist.

As an example, the average Thai family simply isn't going to be able to afford the 900b per adult/700b per child farang rate at Siam Ocean World. On the other hand, if SOW cut their farang pricing to the Thai price, then presumably they'd suffer a reduction in revenue needed to run the place... Although, that might be offset by increased patronage were they to equalize their pricing.

In the U.S., I used to live in Southern California and long visited Disneyland while growing up. As best as I recall, they always had a single posted admission price for adults, another for children, etc etc... No matter where you came from. However, as stated above, they also offered local resident discounts based on your home zip code as listed on your driver's license.

I don't think they ever advertised those discounts on-site at the park ticket offices (not the same like the Thai places that have signs up showing one price for Thais and another higher price for farangs). But local residents were aware of them and certainly could at least purchase the discounted tickets in advance or through third parties such as the AAA.

[Genericnic]

Excellent web site exposing 'hidden' dual pricing:-

here

This link should feature on every tour operator, travel agent and airline website about Thailand. Kudos to the people who maintain the site. I salute the endeavour.

I don't know if this happened to anyone else, but when I tried to go to the linked website (http://www.2pricethailand.com), I got a "Warning: Suspicious Site" from my McAfee Antivirus Plus. Said it "found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors." Don't know exactly what.

I'm running McAfee Internet Security on my iMac and got no warning at the website.

David

[Tomtomtom69]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! maybe we can also stop the tradition of dual pricing with one price for Thai people and a higher price for Foreigners for medical care. In Satahip Naval Hospital there is a posted sign on the cashiers window, it says "Foreigners will be charges 50% more". Please respond if any info is available........

Satahip Naval Hospital may present a different case if it is a Thai taxpayer supported institution and the charge differences are based on whether one is a resident of Thailand or not rather than simply based on race.

I have never heard or seen anything like this before at a hospital, really weird. I would personally not even visit a hospital like that, given I am always ensured and entitled to reclaim 100% of medical expenses abroad I would only ever step foot in a big private hospital where everyone pays the same. But the main reason for doing so of course is that international private hospitals in Thailand offer excellent medical care whereas smaller government hospitals in the provinces are like...emm...best avoided.

[Tomtomtom69]

I wrestle with what to think of the dual pricing issue for tourist attractions... On one hand, the notion of it feels inherently wrong.

On the other hand, the average income for Thais is vastly less than for the average farang, and likely an even greater disparity for the average farang tourist.

As an example, the average Thai family simply isn't going to be able to afford the 900b per adult/700b per child farang rate at Siam Ocean World. On the other hand, if SOW cut their farang pricing to the Thai price, then presumably they'd suffer a reduction in revenue needed to run the place... Although, that might be offset by increased patronage were they to equalize their pricing.

In the U.S., I used to live in Southern California and long visited Disneyland while growing up. As best as I recall, they always had a single posted admission price for adults, another for children, etc etc... No matter where you came from. However, as stated above, they also offered local resident discounts based on your home zip code as listed on your driver's license.

I don't think they ever advertised those discounts on-site at the park ticket offices (not the same like the Thai places that have signs up showing one price for Thais and another higher price for farangs). But local residents were aware of them and certainly could at least purchase the discounted tickets in advance or through third parties such as the AAA.

Without going into detail about the merits/disadvantages of dual pricing as we all know it's inherently wrong and at worst, just downright racist, but when you say "most Thais can't afford 900 Baht etc." I beg to differ. First of all, if they arrive by car, then they have money - poor people don't have cars, especially not in Thailand. Not only do they arrive by car, but they probably arrive in a new sedan or pickup, which they own 2, not just 1. Secondly, it's not up to foreigners to subsidize the cost of tourist attractions. For starters, many tourist attractions have very few foreign visitors so the extra few Baht they can get by charging them more can hardly be considered extra income. Also, this is not a reliable business model either (trying to rely on foreign visitors, which we know are plentiful in Thailand but even in touristy Thailand there are places which have relatively few foreigners).

Secondly, if you consider China, where dual pricing at tourist attractions etc. has been eliminated, there are many places there which are not only much more interesting than what you'll find in Thailand, but secondly, many attractions there don't have even one foreigner (westerner or otherwise) that visits on an average day. They do perfectly well without foreign visitors but should foreigners decide to visit, they'll find not only will they pay the same price as locals, but elderley foreigners and students get discounts too. In Thailand I have yet to see any tourist attractions where the elderley are entitled to discounts, even for locals.

[Finlaco]

TallGuyJohninBKK

Hi

Before any of us arrived in Thailand we all lived in a society when the concept is/was ‘it’s not the money but the principle’ prevailed, and where it’s not normal to self justify why one should pay more for a product or service.

The same concepts/principles apply in Thailand. No Thai person seeks to pay more for a similar product or service. Many Thai in the service industries (broad meaning) will attempt to convince the recently arrived Farang that Thai people like kind and generous foreigners (aka naive and innocent). I suggest you people watch at a Thai border market with Cambodia, Laos or Myanmar and decide whether Thai people are kind and generous with their less fortunate neighbours, or whether they bargain to the nearest bath.

Also I suppose it depends on your perception on business people in Thailand. Do you really think a Thai Businessman who seeks to maintain a THB10k per month salary for his employees, would built a tourist attraction for altruistic reasons (for local Thai) and based on a business model that makes money solely on the ‘extra’ income from foreign tourists (who may or may not come from overseas)? For many Thai people, the concept of a Tourist paying 14baht for a 14 baht can of coke means that they have cheated the Thai because the coke would cost 30baht in their home countries. It’s just part of Thai culture and over time it’s being replaced with a more honourable single price system.

I think you’re a little bit confused - The examples you have given is compensation to the 'locals' who live in the vicinity of the attraction and who are perhaps affected by visitors to the site and may in the future object to expansion plans (European and US citizens enjoys rights denied to Thai) etc..(done for PR reasons). It’s not a discount to all people native to the country so your comparison is not accurate.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Finlaco

[IMA_FARANG]

Dual pricing may not necessarily be illegal .... either in Thailand or elswhere.

As someone pointed out if the institution is a state or government supported instituton they may by law quote one price for residents or citizens of that government and another higher rate for non citizens,

For example the University of Massachusetts, which is state supported has different tuition rates for Massachusetts residents and for those residing out of state.

[Finlaco]

Dual pricing may not necessarily be illegal .... either in Thailand or elswhere.

As someone pointed out if the institution is a state or government supported instituton they may by law quote one price for residents or citizens of that government and another higher rate for non citizens,

For example the University of Massachusetts, which is state supported has different tuition rates for Massachusetts residents and for those residing out of state.

and in this example, would many out of state students regularly 'self justify' why they ought to pay more in tuition fees (altruistic reasons), or would they have an issue.

wrt Education it seems obvious that the State has decided that since its subsiding/funding the tuition in the hope of future taxation income levied on the graduated student, that out of state students may return to their home state

I think for most of us, we're just interested in understanding those who see no issue with dual pricing in Thailand and their reason/logic behind it. We're all entitled to our own opinion, but not our own facts. As I said before, “Before any of us arrived in Thailand we all lived in a society when the concept is/was ‘it’s not the money but the principle’ prevailed, and where it’s not normal to self justify why one should pay more for a product or service” - So we’re just curious as to what happened to change the mind set of those who now self justify dual pricing.

[blossombkk]

The concept of double pricing exists here in Thailand as well as other SE Asian countries. Some of them charge different prices for flight tickets.It is a very general way of looking at foreigners as rich and therefore should pay more.

I often get farang prices at street vendors too. That shows how very basic understanding it is.

[Tomtomtom69]

Dual pricing is illegal.

Really? It seems to be quite common here in Thailand. I've also seen it all over the rest of the world. Setup as a "locals" discount.

I've seen it too......a price for locals and a higher price for tourists. They know where you're from by looking at your driver's license. Universities in the USA have triple pricing........in-state, out-of-state and international students. I've also seen discounts for senior citizens and military personnel.

I've heard of in/out of state for state universities. Never heard of intl rates. Do u have a link? These are however govt institutions that get money from people's taxes. No comparison.

Exactly. Secondly US universities only have a dual pricing scheme, NOT triple pricing, what are you talking about? There are only in-state and out-of-state fees, no "international" student fees - IMHO international students usually pay the out-of-state fee although under many circumstances may later become eligible to pay in-state fees during the course of their studies.

[canman]

For things such as government hospitals and parks it makes perfect since for the local tax payers to be given discounted pricing, They effectively pay for these resources with their taxes so why should they be subsidising foreigners?

Private businesses, up to them. If you don't like it vote with your feet or with social media which seems to be having an effect more and more in Thailand.

[yankee99]

Dual pricing is illegal.

Are you sure? What about the Grand Palace?Many countries practice it. In Florida for example, residents get on many rides cheaper than visitors.IN the UK too, where I come from, some golf courses give discount to locals. There's nothing wrong with it IMHO.IN Thailand also, if you are a resident and show either work permit or tax receipt or driver's license you won't have to pay the tourist price.

I went 20 times at least to California or Florida,I never ever saw a price list what says "US citizen 50$ foreigner 100$,not at disney,not at universal or other parks.It might be older or younger persons get a discount

Theme parks ,state parks and local city facilities have discounts for local residents for a long long time.

Not only do foreigners pay more but people from other states pay more. Just a quick example

https://www.universalorlando.com/Theme-Park-Tickets/Florida-Resident-Tickets.aspx

[doontp]

Google: International student fees at North American universities

[Tomtomtom69]

There was a thread some time ago about a hotel in Bangkok that had a buffet on a very high floor, they charged extra for foreigners, be they resident in Thailand or even when accompanied by a Thai partner.

I made a comment on their Facebook page, which they ignored, but an Australian woman made a comment that she thought it was acceptable for foreign tourists to be charged more as they had more money than the Thai people, adding that Thai people couldn't normally afford to eat in such places as this.

My partner added a response that she found her comment to be patronising and insulting, the lady didn't respond.

I have never heard of such behavior by a Bangkok hotel. Could you please name and shame this hotel?

[Tomtomtom69]

Google: International student fees at North American universities

Yes they are out-of-state fees. I have attended university in the USA - they charged me an out-of-state fee.

Canadian universities charge local and international fees, not American ones. Anyway, what's the point of this? The west doesn't discriminate like Thailand does, let's keep on topic and not come up with useless crap to justify what is going on in Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

The concept of double pricing exists here in Thailand as well as other SE Asian countries. Some of them charge different prices for flight tickets.It is a very general way of looking at foreigners as rich and therefore should pay more.

I often get farang prices at street vendors too. That shows how very basic understanding it is.

Only in Myanmar do flight tickets (for domestic flights only of course) cost more for foreigners than locals, nowhere else though. However, once the country opens up perhaps this system will disappear.

If you got charged more from a street vendor then you are dumb - why didn't you bargain, or find out what the "local" price should be? There is no excuse for that but the only person who got gouged is you, I wouldn't be dumb enough to get into the same situation.

[doontp]

Google: International student fees at North American universities

Yes they are out-of-state fees. I have attended university in the USA - they charged me an out-of-state fee.

Canadian universities charge local and international fees, not American ones. Anyway, what's the point of this? The west doesn't discriminate like Thailand does, let's keep on topic and not come up with useless crap to justify what is going on in Thailand.

If you think I'm off topic, then don't dignify my post with a reply.

The point I'm making is dual pricing is in a lot of places. Private uni's in the US can charge what and how they want. Some uni's do have 3 different rates. I went to one. I paid out of state fees. I'm a US citizen. A foreign cousin of mine wanted to attend and her rate would have been higher. This is from a personal experience of mine in the registration office.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Various state universities in the U.S. charge out-of-state resident fees and also international student fees -- or you can call it increased tuition for those groups -- because those universities are partly financially supported by taxpayers in that state. Thus, the people who live in that state already have contributed to fund the education system there, whereas out of state residents and international students have not. That's not quite an example of discrimination.

Here, AFAIK, Asiatique isn't supported by the Thai government or Thai taxpayers. It's a private business that makes its profits from its customers. When a private business like that has a dual pricing scheme for Thais and non-Thais, that IS what I'd call an example of economic and/or cultural discrimination.

[theoldgit]

There was a thread some time ago about a hotel in Bangkok that had a buffet on a very high floor, they charged extra for foreigners, be they resident in Thailand or even when accompanied by a Thai partner.

I made a comment on their Facebook page, which they ignored, but an Australian woman made a comment that she thought it was acceptable for foreign tourists to be charged more as they had more money than the Thai people, adding that Thai people couldn't normally afford to eat in such places as this.

My partner added a response that she found her comment to be patronising and insulting, the lady didn't respond.

I have never heard of such behavior by a Bangkok hotel. Could you please name and shame this hotel?

Naming and shaming is against forum rules, so no I cannot, but I'm sure you can google it if you think I am telling lies, the clue is in the "very high floor".