Quality Of Bikes Made In China

[wantan]

Hi,

my intension for opening this thread is to get the discussion "general lack of chinese quality" out of the threads about particular bike models. So if you have something to complain about "general chinese quality" you are invited to do it here. Hope like this we are able to get the threads about particular chinese bikes back on topic again and stop the derailing. This is a bike forum and many members are interested in getting first-hand information (good and bad) about the cheaper, low tech bikes that are "Made in China" or that are made from parts coming from china.

Thanks

[taninthai]

Pretty pointless really wanton ,people are entitled to their opinions especially when they have owned and had experience with these bikes,

What do you want everyone to say oh yes they are geat bikes!

These bikes make me laugh owners come on here and boast that they have got to 1000 km with nO problems is that supposed to be some sort of achievement ,others have had problems in early ownership brakes , wheel bearings and carbs and still seem to think the bikes ok.

You are never gonna get real feedback because who wants to admit they bought a lemon it's only after people sell them on you may get some honest opinions.

There was some one who got 25,000 km from his lifan before the engine finally died which I think is good for a lifan but once it died do you think he bought another one ....no he bought a Honda.

And my last words are why does everyone want to compare their cheap bikes to other bikes that and cost three times the price there obviously no where near the same quality so why try to compare them ,if you want /have one of these bikes fine but to compare and some people seem to think they are equal or even better the the jap offerings is simply ridiculous.

No more from me on this subject really bored with it now.

[VocalNeal]

about the cheaper, low tech bikes that are "Made in China" or that are made from parts coming from china.

Firstly the motorbike has been around for over 100 years and the technology has been around almost as long so the bikes manufactured in China use more or less the same technology. You are maybe correct that in China it is cheaper to have 100 guys stood at lathes rather than one CNC machine so there maybe some differences between the components but that is manufacturing technology, not motorbike technology. The bike manufactured in China are not necessarily lower tech they are simply of lower quality, maybe. This is a direct result of the lack of interested or attention to quality by the manufacturer. If they really cared they would have one process for local consumption and one for export quality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK back to your intention:

Of which particular models do you speak? I wasn't aware that there are sub forums about specific Chinese bikes or specific bikes in general. Maybe you could include the names of the Chinese bikes you would like to hear about from people that own them.

Edited December 23, 2012 by VocalNeal

[wantan]

Pretty pointless really wanton ,people are entitled to their opinions especially when they have owned and had experience with these bikes,

What do you want everyone to say oh yes they are geat bikes!

No, all i want is to get honest information to be able to do a comparison between bikes and companies.

These bikes make me laugh owners come on here and boast that they have got to 1000 km with nO problems is that supposed to be some sort of achievement ,others have had problems in early ownership brakes , wheel bearings and carbs and still seem to think the bikes ok.

You are never gonna get real feedback because who wants to admit they bought a lemon it's only after people sell them on you may get some honest opinions.

Thank god not all people are like this. I know a lot of people (including me) who honestly spoke about all problems before selling their bike. Not everyone who buys a cheap bike is necessarily a poor guy and wants/needs to hide problems when selling his bike.

And i know an owner of a 2012 Ninjette who has done less than 1000km and wants to sell it now to buy the 2013 model. He is praising his bike too. But maybe he just needs a story to sell a lemon

[wantan]

about the cheaper, low tech bikes that are "Made in China" or that are made from parts coming from china.

Firstly the motorbike has been around for over 100 years and the technology has been around almost as long so the bikes manufactured in China use more or less the same technology. You are maybe correct that in China it is cheaper to have 100 guys stood at lathes rather than one CNC machine so there maybe some differences between the components but that is manufacturing technology, not motorbike technology. The bike manufactured in China are not necessarily lower tech they are simply of lower quality, maybe. This is a direct result of the lack of interested or attention to quality by the manufacturer. If they really cared they would have one process for local consumption and one for export quality.

With "low tech" i meant air cooled engines with carb. I don't know of any such "low tech" bikes not coming from china or assembled from chinese parts here in Thailand. Maybe there are very expensive imports from Japan or Europe. So maybe i should have better said "cheap low tech bikes available here in LOS".

OK back to your intention:

Of which particular models do you speak? I wasn't aware that there are sub forums about specific Chinese bikes or specific bikes in general. Maybe you could include the names of the Chinese bikes you would like to hear about from people that own them.

Seems you misunderstood my intension. I would like to have this thread to talk about general aspects of chinese quality. So if you e.g. want to tell others that "All Chinese bikes are crap because...", this is the right place to do it. Same if you think that "All Chinese manufacturers don't care about life/health of their customers" and so on. Of course positive statements are welcome too

[VocalNeal]

I didn't go riding today and it is a slow day!

I thought importing carburetored bikes was forbidden by law. Obviously I am wrong. I think generally any bike built using or copying the Honda Cub is probably OK as all the parts are interchangeable. So if anything goes wrong it is a simple matter of taking it anywhere. to get fixed.

The problem occurs when bikes need proprietary spares. Then the question of dealer network and availability of parts becomes an issue. Some owners have problems with Tiger for instance but if I lived in Samut Prakan it would be OK. The same for Chinese bikes they are only as good as the network that supports them.

My observations about Chinese bikes comes from Indonesia. Someone would open a shop in the town and start selling cheaper bikes. As soon as the container(s) load of bikes were sold the shop would disappear. So the owners were left to fend for themselves.

The old adage is that "the bitterness of poor quality linger long after the sweat taste of low price has been forgotten". As long as potential customers of Chines bike remember that. Oh and "you get what you pay for"

Lets us not forget that Taiwan is not China, there are more Taiwanese or maybe even Korean scooters coming here. They should not be tarred with the same brush as the Chinese ones.

[poanoi]

With "low tech" i meant air cooled engines with carb.

I have seen so much misery with water cooled engines here in thailand

so there's no way i will buy one in this climate, ever

[wantan]

I didn't go riding today and it is a slow day!

I thought importing carburetored bikes was forbidden by law. Obviously I am wrong. I think generally any bike built using or copying the Honda Cub is probably OK as all the parts are interchangeable. So if anything goes wrong it is a simple matter of taking it anywhere. to get fixed.

The problem occurs when bikes need proprietary spares. Then the question of dealer network and availability of parts becomes an issue. Some owners have problems with Tiger for instance but if I lived in Samut Prakan it would be OK. The same for Chinese bikes they are only as good as the network that supports them.

My observations about Chinese bikes comes from Indonesia. Someone would open a shop in the town and start selling cheaper bikes. As soon as the container(s) load of bikes were sold the shop would disappear. So the owners were left to fend for themselves.

The old adage is that "the bitterness of poor quality linger long after the sweat taste of low price has been forgotten". As long as potential customers of Chines bike remember that. Oh and "you get what you pay for"

Lets us not forget that Taiwan is not China, there are more Taiwanese or maybe even Korean scooters coming here. They should not be tarred with the same brush as the Chinese ones.

There are still bikes with carb officially produced or imported. Here some examples of threads about such low tech chinese (or thai made) bikes that are street legal:

Lifan Cross 200

Keeway Dorado 250

Keeway RKV 200

Platinum PX250

... there are some more

I don't know the reason why the Japanese manufacturers have stopped producing/selling similar bikes in Thailand. But there is still a lot of interest in such "low tech" bikes. Some people claim that quality of chinese bikes is getting better. Many people say quality is still very poor. Its important to have people talking about their actual experiences with there actual bikes. So we can compare the bikes/brands and keep ourselfes informed without falling back into stereotypes.

[BSJ]

The old adage is that "the bitterness of poor quality linger long after the sweat taste of low price has been forgotten". As long as potential customers of Chines bike remember that. Oh and "you get what you pay for"

Would that be a Chinese proverb? Fitting if so.

Lets take one part that is essential to every internal combustion motor.....piston rings. The piston rings that control combustion gases are generally made out of cast iron. There is an wide range of quality/formulation of the raw material used, the method of processing of the raw material, the method of casting, the machining of the raw casting, the heat treatment process, the accepted tolerance of error in the machining process, the requirements for fitting the finished rings to the pistons and then into the engine cylinder.

Were the rings soaked in a bath of hot oil overnight before being sent to assembly? Did the fitter lube the bore before assembly? How much quality control work was undertaken and what was the range of tolerance? How do we know the ring are right side up? Are the gaps 180 degrees apart for the 2 top rings?

My guess is.....at each point in the process the minimum Chinese standard is called for.

When you sell cheap you manufacture cheap!

[Richard-BKK]

I didn't go riding today and it is a slow day!

I thought importing carburetored bikes was forbidden by law. Obviously I am wrong. I think generally any bike built using or copying the Honda Cub is probably OK as all the parts are interchangeable. So if anything goes wrong it is a simple matter of taking it anywhere. to get fixed.

The problem occurs when bikes need proprietary spares. Then the question of dealer network and availability of parts becomes an issue. Some owners have problems with Tiger for instance but if I lived in Samut Prakan it would be OK. The same for Chinese bikes they are only as good as the network that supports them.

My observations about Chinese bikes comes from Indonesia. Someone would open a shop in the town and start selling cheaper bikes. As soon as the container(s) load of bikes were sold the shop would disappear. So the owners were left to fend for themselves.

The old adage is that "the bitterness of poor quality linger long after the sweat taste of low price has been forgotten". As long as potential customers of Chines bike remember that. Oh and "you get what you pay for"

Lets us not forget that Taiwan is not China, there are more Taiwanese or maybe even Korean scooters coming here. They should not be tarred with the same brush as the Chinese ones.

There are still bikes with carb officially produced or imported. Here some examples of threads about such low tech chinese (or thai made) bikes that are street legal:

Lifan Cross 200

Keeway Dorado 250

Keeway RKV 200

Platinum PX250

... there are some more

I don't know the reason why the Japanese manufacturers have stopped producing/selling similar bikes in Thailand. But there is still a lot of interest in such "low tech" bikes. Some people claim that quality of chinese bikes is getting better. Many people say quality is still very poor. Its important to have people talking about their actual experiences with there actual bikes. So we can compare the bikes/brands and keep ourselfes informed without falling back into stereotypes.

The latest Yamaha Fino is still manufactured and sold without fuel-injection, it also has an air-cooled engine and according to stats from the Department of Land Transport it's one of the most popular scooters in Thailand for the last few years.

Actual you can find a few more motorcycles/scooters that have a Japanese brand name badge which still use a carburetor...

[YipYipYa123]

I didn't go riding today and it is a slow day!

I thought importing carburetored bikes was forbidden by law. Obviously I am wrong. I think generally any bike built using or copying the Honda Cub is probably OK as all the parts are interchangeable. So if anything goes wrong it is a simple matter of taking it anywhere. to get fixed.

The problem occurs when bikes need proprietary spares. Then the question of dealer network and availability of parts becomes an issue. Some owners have problems with Tiger for instance but if I lived in Samut Prakan it would be OK. The same for Chinese bikes they are only as good as the network that supports them.

My observations about Chinese bikes comes from Indonesia. Someone would open a shop in the town and start selling cheaper bikes. As soon as the container(s) load of bikes were sold the shop would disappear. So the owners were left to fend for themselves.

The old adage is that "the bitterness of poor quality linger long after the sweat taste of low price has been forgotten". As long as potential customers of Chines bike remember that. Oh and "you get what you pay for"

Lets us not forget that Taiwan is not China, there are more Taiwanese or maybe even Korean scooters coming here. They should not be tarred with the same brush as the Chinese ones.

There are still bikes with carb officially produced or imported. Here some examples of threads about such low tech chinese (or thai made) bikes that are street legal:

Lifan Cross 200

Keeway Dorado 250

Keeway RKV 200

Platinum PX250

... there are some more

I don't know the reason why the Japanese manufacturers have stopped producing/selling similar bikes in Thailand. But there is still a lot of interest in such "low tech" bikes. Some people claim that quality of chinese bikes is getting better. Many people say quality is still very poor. Its important to have people talking about their actual experiences with there actual bikes. So we can compare the bikes/brands and keep ourselfes informed without falling back into stereotypes.

The latest Yamaha Fino is still manufactured and sold without fuel-injection, it also has an air-cooled engine and according to stats from the Department of Land Transport it's one of the most popular scooters in Thailand for the last few years.

Actual you can find a few more motorcycles/scooters that have a Japanese brand name badge which still use a carburetor...

Fino is probably on the last production run, yamaha

Will likely move to the newer economic fi engines in the

Ttx and the filano before long if they even keep making

The fino

Also the emissions laws will probably get stricter every

Year for bikes to fall into line with pollution figures

I would not buy a carb bike right now because injection is

Simply better

[wantan]

^

I am not a believer in these promises of a new, clean, better, fuel saving, fuel injected motorbike world. Many people like me like the good old carb on their small bikes. A bike you can work on without having a diagnostic computer. A bike without a dozen sensors which may fail one day.

[jbrain]

I am still waiting to see the first decent product been made in China, being it bikes or anything else.

The only thing that counts in China is volume and low price.Those requirements don't match with quality.

[YipYipYa123]

I am still waiting to see the first decent product been made in China, being it bikes or anything else.

The only thing that counts in China is volume and low price.Those requirements don't match with quality.

Do apple not make their iphone in China thesedays?

I don't like it but I have to agree it's decent build quality

[jbrain]

I am still waiting to see the first decent product been made in China, being it bikes or anything else.

The only thing that counts in China is volume and low price.Those requirements don't match with quality.

Do apple not make their iphone in China thesedays?

I don't like it but I have to agree it's decent build quality

It's a product made in China under foreign supervision.

Something completely different from a Chinese product with a foreign name tag.,

Edited December 23, 2012 by jbrain

[jackcorbett]

I didn't go riding today and it is a slow day!

I thought importing carburetored bikes was forbidden by law. Obviously I am wrong. I think generally any bike built using or copying the Honda Cub is probably OK as all the parts are interchangeable. So if anything goes wrong it is a simple matter of taking it anywhere. to get fixed.

The problem occurs when bikes need proprietary spares. Then the question of dealer network and availability of parts becomes an issue. Some owners have problems with Tiger for instance but if I lived in Samut Prakan it would be OK. The same for Chinese bikes they are only as good as the network that supports them.

My observations about Chinese bikes comes from Indonesia. Someone would open a shop in the town and start selling cheaper bikes. As soon as the container(s) load of bikes were sold the shop would disappear. So the owners were left to fend for themselves.

The old adage is that "the bitterness of poor quality linger long after the sweat taste of low price has been forgotten". As long as potential customers of Chines bike remember that. Oh and "you get what you pay for"

Lets us not forget that Taiwan is not China, there are more Taiwanese or maybe even Korean scooters coming here. They should not be tarred with the same brush as the Chinese ones.

There are still bikes with carb officially produced or imported. Here some examples of threads about such low tech chinese (or thai made) bikes that are street legal:

Lifan Cross 200

Keeway Dorado 250

Keeway RKV 200

Platinum PX250

... there are some more

I don't know the reason why the Japanese manufacturers have stopped producing/selling similar bikes in Thailand. But there is still a lot of interest in such "low tech" bikes. Some people claim that quality of chinese bikes is getting better. Many people say quality is still very poor. Its important to have people talking about their actual experiences with there actual bikes. So we can compare the bikes/brands and keep ourselfes informed without falling back into stereotypes.

The latest Yamaha Fino is still manufactured and sold without fuel-injection, it also has an air-cooled engine and according to stats from the Department of Land Transport it's one of the most popular scooters in Thailand for the last few years.

Actual you can find a few more motorcycles/scooters that have a Japanese brand name badge which still use a carburetor...

Fino is probably on the last production run, yamaha

Will likely move to the newer economic fi engines in the

Ttx and the filano before long if they even keep making

The fino

Also the emissions laws will probably get stricter every

Year for bikes to fall into line with pollution figures

I would not buy a carb bike right now because injection is

Simply better

You are sure of that? I have just done another road test--this time pitting a pristine Yamaha Nouvo SX with FI against my Yamaha old fashioned 135 c.c. Elegance with its defunct carburetor on a 126 kilometer test loop through a variety of driving conditions.

[AllanB]

I think this a very important subject, as I said in another thread, if I were buying a set of knives and forks, material quality wouldn't be much of an issue, since a failure wouldn't be a life threatening , I would just be a bit pissed off.

This has nothing to due with the technology of the bike, but of the production methods, whether the bike has fuel injection, or a carburettor is not significant, but whether the material in a crucial component is of the right specification and consistency, is.

My eyes were opened during a visit to Ningbo, where I found the level of expertise frightening, outside their own narrow remit they knew nothing, I had to explain to them what investment casting was and they were all graduate engineers. But the boss had a nice big Nissan car, so despite this he was making money, from a product that was total crap. I then went to see a stockist of theirs in the UK and they had a room full of broken winches and bits like bearings and gears....and they were making lots of money too.

Companies like Honda have spent million, if not billions over many decades getting to where they are today, China want success before the day is out and that means cutting corners, or generally not giving a shit. But they do offer big profits for their dealers, so these products are cheaper than you think.

A friend of mine has a Lifan, it doesn't start that easily, it doesn't sound very sweet, he had a faulty tyre which he replaced and that is enough for me. When they get their pedigree in 5 or 10 years time, I may be interested, but "all that glitters is not gold.".

I bought a knock off watch from Laos, it had stopped before I got home, I bought a belt and the from plate fell off, I bought a razor and it is still working. Al very cheap, but 1 out of 3, not good.

[David006]

I think this a very important subject, as I said in another thread, if I were buying a set of knives and forks, material quality wouldn't be much of an issue, since a failure wouldn't be a life threatening , I would just be a bit pissed off.

This has nothing to due with the technology of the bike, but of the production methods, whether the bike has fuel injection, or a carburettor is not significant, but whether the material in a crucial component is of the right specification and consistency, is.

My eyes were opened during a visit to Ningbo, where I found the level of expertise frightening, outside their own narrow remit they knew nothing, I had to explain to them what investment casting was and they were all graduate engineers. But the boss had a nice big Nissan car, so despite this he was making money, from a product that was total crap. I then went to see a stockist of theirs in the UK and they had a room full of broken winches and bits like bearings and gears....and they were making lots of money too.

Companies like Honda have spent million, if not billions over many decades getting to where they are today, China want success before the day is out and that means cutting corners, or generally not giving a shit. But they do offer big profits for their dealers, so these products are cheaper than you think.

A friend of mine has a Lifan, it doesn't start that easily, it doesn't sound very sweet, he had a faulty tyre which he replaced and that is enough for me. When they get their pedigree in 5 or 10 years time, I may be interested, but "all that glitters is not gold.".

I bought a knock off watch from Laos, it had stopped before I got home, I bought a belt and the from plate fell off, I bought a razor and it is still working. Al very cheap, but 1 out of 3, not good.

Okay....I have a PX 175 as previously stated on the PX250 thread......stored undercover for 4 + years very low kms, looks great, immaculate as new condition,mirrors still work and the tyres are only flat at the bottom.....wanna buy it? ....lol?..no it is not funny!

I suspect that a lot of aftermarket parts for the Japanese bikes may well be made in China..same same brush cutters et al....

Tyres and inner tubes particularly....

[VocalNeal]

I am still waiting to see the first decent product been made in China, being it bikes or anything else.

The only thing that counts in China is volume and low price.Those requirements don't match with quality.

My wife presented me with last year's Christmas lights which did not work because one of the power feed wires was broken. In my attempts to solder it back on the board i was cursing the Chinese there were maximum three strands of copper wire which could not be stripped because the are not strong enough to with stand the stripping process.

So that was what i was thinking. Who would make such sh1t. Someone places an order for Christmas lights and someone in China decides not how good can we make these but how bad we can make them.

Oh and I tied a knot in the wires, easy, so that the original break won't occur again!

... so these (Chinese) products are cheaper than you think...

The production costs of most things are lower than many might realize. It is labour. distribution and retail that adds to the cost. That and having to support the product, with guarantees etc.

Edited December 24, 2012 by VocalNeal

[BirdsandBooze]

I am still waiting to see the first decent product been made in China, being it bikes or anything else.

The only thing that counts in China is volume and low price.Those requirements don't match with quality.

Do apple not make their iphone in China thesedays?

I don't like it but I have to agree it's decent build quality

It's a product made in China under foreign supervision.

Something completely different from a Chinese product with a foreign name tag.,

Suzuki and Yamaha both have production facilities in China BUT the managers, engineers, and tooling are Japanese and an iron grip is held on quality control, because they know the good reputation that has taken them decades to attain could be destroyed overnight.

[jackcorbett]

Just fifteen minutes ago I saw a post in our little chat room from a very good friend of mine who is leasing for one year at the View Talay condo next to the Central Shopping Mall. There are three elevators in the building and now one has been down and out for two weeks. The excuse is the Elevator is Chinese and that they are still waiting for the part. Needless to say it takes a lot longer for him to get up to his condo or downstairs due to the two remaining elevators jamming up. I've now been living in my condo for six and a half years now, and Thank God I bought from the Germans. We have had a number of elevator outages, but not once has the elevator been down for more than a few hours. The elevator company is Scandinavian and our condo community does have a monthly maintenance elevator contract. Let me check for a moment. Ah.....in 2009, we spent 38,092 baht on our single elevator--25,680 of it on the contract and the rest for a part. The key here is our condo committee which is Western clearly knows what it is doing (substitute here dealer) and it's willing to spend the money. Point two is the builder had the common sense to buy from a reliable company (Kone) which is certainly not Chinese.

[denkiblue555]

Japanese really care about quality, like really really care - the way Americans care about freedom.

Others, well, they DON'T care about quality.

Is it anymore complex than this?

[Richard-BKK]

Just fifteen minutes ago I saw a post in our little chat room from a very good friend of mine who is leasing for one year at the View Talay condo next to the Central Shopping Mall. There are three elevators in the building and now one has been down and out for two weeks. The excuse is the Elevator is Chinese and that they are still waiting for the part. Needless to say it takes a lot longer for him to get up to his condo or downstairs due to the two remaining elevators jamming up. I've now been living in my condo for six and a half years now, and Thank God I bought from the Germans. We have had a number of elevator outages, but not once has the elevator been down for more than a few hours. The elevator company is Scandinavian and our condo community does have a monthly maintenance elevator contract. Let me check for a moment. Ah.....in 2009, we spent 38,092 baht on our single elevator--25,680 of it on the contract and the rest for a part. The key here is our condo committee which is Western clearly knows what it is doing (substitute here dealer) and it's willing to spend the money. Point two is the builder had the common sense to buy from a reliable company (Kone) which is certainly not Chinese.

Interesting that you use Kone elevators as an example, as probably all elevators installed in Thailand with the Kone brand name are manufactured by Gian Kone. Giant Kone was a Chinese joint venture of the Kone Corporation and Chinese Zhejiang Giant Holdings Co., Ltd.

Only recently Kone Corporation became the major share holder in the joint venture as Zhejiang Giant Holdings Co., Ltd. decided that the would take a different path. Before Kone Corporation had 40% shares in Giant Kone, and the Chinese Zhejiang Giant Holdings Co., Ltd had 60% share and all production was done in China. So if the Kone elevator was not made in 2012, your elevator is 100% Chinese made and build under the supervision of Zhejiang Giant Holdings Co., Ltd.

Currently Kone Corporation owns 80% shares in Giant Kone, and it's excepted that the company will soon rename it's name to Kone China or something similar....

[ozzydom]

I expect this same argument will apply to Jaguar and Landrover vehicles,now owned by Tata motors of India with manufacture being moved to mainland China for reasons of cost.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

My Tiger CX125 made in Thailand was the worst bike I ever had. Always breaking down. I'll take any from China over another one of those

[loserlazer]

Are we still duscussing this wantan?

Whatever product coming from China is the worst quality. Bikes, cars, elevators even simple plastic!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Richard-BKK]

Are we still duscussing this wantan?

Whatever product coming from China is the worst quality. Bikes, cars, elevators even simple plastic!

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

Ironic message as it was send from a Samsung Galaxy Note II made in China.....

[ThunderDuck]

Indeed ... wouldnt't know if his ass was chinese.

Edited December 24, 2012 by ThunderDuck

[loserlazer]

I m sorry idiots. My galaxy note 2 is made in Korea and/or Vietnam.

And it is all about how something made in China. Under foreign supervision or rule or all made by Chinese? It makes a big difference as your pink chinese lover asses might not be aware.

Check your asses as there might be a Chinese there now hahahass...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited December 24, 2012 by loserlazer

[AllanB]

I think this a very important subject, as I said in another thread, if I were buying a set of knives and forks, material quality wouldn't be much of an issue, since a failure wouldn't be a life threatening , I would just be a bit pissed off.

This has nothing to due with the technology of the bike, but of the production methods, whether the bike has fuel injection, or a carburettor is not significant, but whether the material in a crucial component is of the right specification and consistency, is.

My eyes were opened during a visit to Ningbo, where I found the level of expertise frightening, outside their own narrow remit they knew nothing, I had to explain to them what investment casting was and they were all graduate engineers. But the boss had a nice big Nissan car, so despite this he was making money, from a product that was total crap. I then went to see a stockist of theirs in the UK and they had a room full of broken winches and bits like bearings and gears....and they were making lots of money too.

Companies like Honda have spent million, if not billions over many decades getting to where they are today, China want success before the day is out and that means cutting corners, or generally not giving a shit. But they do offer big profits for their dealers, so these products are cheaper than you think.

A friend of mine has a Lifan, it doesn't start that easily, it doesn't sound very sweet, he had a faulty tyre which he replaced and that is enough for me. When they get their pedigree in 5 or 10 years time, I may be interested, but "all that glitters is not gold.".

I bought a knock off watch from Laos, it had stopped before I got home, I bought a belt and the from plate fell off, I bought a razor and it is still working. Al very cheap, but 1 out of 3, not good.

Okay....I have a PX 175 as previously stated on the PX250 thread......stored undercover for 4 + years very low kms, looks great, immaculate as new condition,mirrors still work and the tyres are only flat at the bottom.....wanna buy it? ....lol?..no it is not funny!

I suspect that a lot of aftermarket parts for the Japanese bikes may well be made in China..same same brush cutters et al....

Tyres and inner tubes particularly....

It has been mentioned before on this and other posts, that the crucial factor is supervision/management. Companies who shift production to China, take their expertise with them and then put a lot of effort into achieving and maintaining levels of quality.

If you want a product made out there, the first question they ask is how much do you want to pay? Not the best start and I fear that Chinese bikes and built with this rule in mind, "built down to a price", rather than "up to a standard".

When a western company with a reputation to maintain, builds a new product they have their reputation in mind, if an unknown Chinese company screw up and builds a dog, they simply disappear and re-brand next time until they get it right. Remember Datsun, total rust buckets, they fixed the problem and Became Nissan. So best wait for Nissan to emerge.

Another example:- Road construction in China is also progressing at a phenomenal rate and when I travelled from Shanghai to Ningbo it was pretty much all brand new motorway, much of which had already begun to subside in places, so something of a roller-coaster ride in the boss's Nissan. Part of this journey took me over the Jiaozhou Bay bridge the worlds longest, which crosses the sea and with the motorway build quality in my mind, it didn't fill me with confidence, any more than buying a Chinese designed and built bike.

​There may be good Chinese bikes out there, but which ones and how long will they be good for, will they simply disappear and/or re brand? I was quite upset when my very pretty 20 quid (1000baht) Omega watch stopped and see it every time I open the drawer. I would be using the famous George Bush quote if I threw 1,000 quid (50,000baht) away and then saw the dam_n thing rusting away in the drive way every time I came home.

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice.....er....can't get fooled again"

Edited December 25, 2012 by AllanB