Attempted Robbery 5Am This Morning

[JDGRUEN]

Unless she had security training, no there was IMO nothing she could have done. She was just very, very unlucky on several fronts.

Unfortunately I would agree with steven. The lady was very very unlucky and her friend was very lucky to survive. I doubt any sort of self defence training or equipment would have saved her. Happened too quickly to react.

In this murder you cite, it would seem that nothing would have helped this poor woman but this type of near instant slash and stab incident is not the norm. Confrontations that lead to aggression and violence often start much slower ... arguments, road rage, break-ins, jealousies, money disagreements,etc. Many things can escalate to violence that do not happen near instantly. I just happen to believe it pays to be prepared. So - I reiterate ... .To each his own .. for those who believe in non self-defense, I hope you have good a life insurance policy for your family's benefit.

You mention it very well here:there is a cause and things escalate slowly, slowly. That also implies this aggression is easily avoided.

Yes to a certain degree - but in some situations the aggressor won't back down and you cannot escape - that's the real world.. I don't live in a theoretical world ... sh_t does happen when you least expect it ... Hard assed punks on the street don't know the art of negotiation - nor do they want to... They will take your money when you hand it to them ... but they don't always just walk away - sometimes they just want to mess with you ... just for kicks - or to impress their buddies... and you're the sideshow...

[Phronesis]

Once upon a time TV was filled with threads that discussed visas, bikes, girls, beaches and food. And maybe even in that order...

Nowadays the bulk of threads appear to be about traffic and road accidents, crime against the person, asset protection, and self defence.

Has the nature of the members posting on TV changed, or is it Thailand that has changed?

And yes, the question I pose is rhetorical.

[NamKangMan]

Once upon a time TV was filled with threads that discussed visas, bikes, girls, beaches and food. And maybe even in that order...

Nowadays the bulk of threads appear to be about traffic and road accidents, crime against the person, asset protection, and self defence.

Has the nature of the members posting on TV changed, or is it Thailand that has changed?

And yes, the question I pose is rhetorical.

"Thailand" is ok, but "Phuket" has real problems, and this is the Phuket forum, so, a lot of negative publicity for members to post about.

Phuket is starting to see the results of their failure to change, failure to invest in infastructure, failure to offer the isalnd as a direct competitor to other tourist desinations - both in Thailand and abroad, and failure to address the huge amount of corruption here.

The "issues" that exist here will only increase in size and become more frequent. As a result, so will the negative publicity.

[KarenBravo]

Phuket is starting to see the results of their failure to change, failure to invest in infastructure, failure to offer the island as a direct competitor to other tourist desinations - both in Thailand and abroad, and failure to address the huge amount of corruption here.

I agree with this statement except for this bit I have put in bold type.

Isn't self evident that Phuket is a victim of it's own success? Don't the record number of tourists year after year show this to be untrue?

Isn't Phuket's ability to attract tourists in huge numbers the reason why the present infrastructure is insufficient?

Isn't this self-evident?

Edited January 12, 2013 by KarenBravo

[NamKangMan]

Phuket is starting to see the results of their failure to change, failure to invest in infastructure, failure to offer the island as a direct competitor to other tourist desinations - both in Thailand and abroad, and failure to address the huge amount of corruption here.

I agree with this statement except for this bit I have put in bold type.

Isn't self evident that Phuket is a victim of it's own success? Don't the record number of tourists year after year show this to be untrue?

Isn't Phuket's ability to attract tourists in huge numbers the reason why the present infrastructure is insufficient?

Isn't this self-evident?

I tend to disagree with this way of thinking, KB, and I'll give you my reasons.

Historically, Phuket did have a huge slice of the western tourist market for the region - no doubt about that. However, in recent times, we have seen a shrinking western tourist market and an increasing market within the emerging economies. Eg. Russia, China, India. Also, we must remember that many westerners are using Phuket Airport as a transit airport to other holiday destinations, particularly the islands. They are classified as a tourist to Phuket, but many do not stay on the island.

The problem is, Phuket is losing one segment of the market and replacing it with another, but why are they losing that segment of the market???? Why not have the emerging economy tourists compliment the long existing western tourist market?

In order to run sustainable tourism here, wouldn't officials have to ask, "Why are we losing the western market?" Sure, new tourist destinations are opening up in the region, meaning the tourist market is shared over more destinations. Vietnam is getting a lot of tourists, and now Myanmar, but what is Phuket doing to compete. I would suggest, nothing. It's the same old issues here year in, year out. After they have targeted the Russians, Chinese and Indians, where to from there?

They should look at why they are losing market share of western tourist to other destinations and set about making Phuket a more attractive proposition for a holiday than its competitors.

Further to this, the market that is replacing the western market do not have the spending power and, culturally, do not drink and party, which is the main source of expat income here, and the main source of employment, legitimate or otherwise, and that's hospitality.

How can you lose such a dominant market share of the high spenders and not ask pertinent questions as to why?

As I have said in a previous thread, in around 10 years time, Phuket will be a case study for a Thai uni student doing a business degree as to "what went wrong" here.

You only have to look at the Nokia Company to see how easy it is to lose market share when you do not compete.

[KarenBravo]

Loss of Western European tourists is mainly down to the dire economic situation in Europe.

[NamKangMan]

Loss of Western European tourists is mainly down to the dire economic situation in Europe.

It doesn't seem to be effecting Vietnam. Check out the month by month figures. in particular, the growth percentages.

http://vietnamtouris...i=1&chucnang=07

Interestingly, tourism was down in Vietnam in December 2012.

When have you ever read an article that tourist has EVER been down in Thailand unless they have something to blame? Eg. tsunami, floods, protests etc.

This high season will be interesting - nothing to blame.

I expect to see quite a few "For Sale" signs go up around April.

Many Europeans are going to Hua Hin now. i'm sure many of them used to come to Phuket, particularly the Germans and Scandi's.

Edited January 12, 2013 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

Loss of Western European tourists is mainly down to the dire economic situation in Europe.

You know, I think it's much more complex than that. Maybe NKM put his finger on the problem. 10 -> 15 years ago much of the tourist trade was young people looking for fun, then it trended to couples and families looking for a good holiday vacation. The TAT tried to promote 'better quality tourists' as in more affluent tourists. For sure the global downturn did not help, the expensive Baht did not help. And now what do we have - tour packages from China, Tawain, other Asian countries, and now Russia. From what I can see it makes the 'arrival numbers' great but does not add much to the local business owner's economy. I really don't know where it all going to end or even the route it will take.

[JetsetBkk]

My old house was burgled several times, two people where raped behind my house one very violently beaten to a pulp. I had 4 bikes stolen (always locked) several attempted muggings.

This was in Uk in a nice area

<snip>

I think your idea of "a nice area" is different from mine.

[pagallim]

Loss of Western European tourists is mainly down to the dire economic situation in Europe.

You know, I think it's much more complex than that. Maybe NKM put his finger on the problem. 10 -> 15 years ago much of the tourist trade was young people looking for fun, then it trended to couples and families looking for a good holiday vacation. The TAT tried to promote 'better quality tourists' as in more affluent tourists. For sure the global downturn did not help, the expensive Baht did not help. And now what do we have - tour packages from China, Tawain, other Asian countries, and now Russia. From what I can see it makes the 'arrival numbers' great but does not add much to the local business owner's economy. I really don't know where it all going to end or even the route it will take.

I think you can forget the high end Western/European market for Phuket. There are a few isolated enclaves for private villas and good hotels, but the rest.......forget it. Even this market errs towards the expat residents of Hong Kong and Singapore. Seriously wealthy Europeans/Americans etc would be in the Caribbean. So, you've got the Indian wedding market, the Chinese all inclusive (and where is my chow mien), and the Russian 'pass me another bottle of vodka this one's empty......

Please note my comments are tongue in cheek....... however in terms of Phuket tourism (not to be confused with Phuket expat resident living) it looks increasingly grim.

[NamKangMan]

Loss of Western European tourists is mainly down to the dire economic situation in Europe.

You know, I think it's much more complex than that. Maybe NKM put his finger on the problem. 10 -> 15 years ago much of the tourist trade was young people looking for fun, then it trended to couples and families looking for a good holiday vacation. The TAT tried to promote 'better quality tourists' as in more affluent tourists. For sure the global downturn did not help, the expensive Baht did not help. And now what do we have - tour packages from China, Tawain, other Asian countries, and now Russia. From what I can see it makes the 'arrival numbers' great but does not add much to the local business owner's economy. I really don't know where it all going to end or even the route it will take.

As mentioned, where did this market go? Why aren't they returning to Phuket for holidays, over and over? Why aren't the new markets complimenting the traditional western markets?

Why are many western tourists chosing other destinations in Thailand over Phuket? Why are some expats now living in other destinations in Thailand over Phuket?

Maybe Phuket will just end up as a cheap holiday destination for Thai's, built-up with farang money over a few decades. All the vacant hotels and guest houses may just end up being 300 baht per night rooms for Thai's to come to Phuket for a holiday after the tourists have long gone. The western restaurants and beer bars will slowly move to more profitable areas and along with that, so will the sex trade.

Once you are targeting the package holday makers, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. (no disrespect to any particular nationality)

Further more, if a couple of package holidays were placed in front of potential customers from emerging economies, say Phuket and Pattaya, and the package to Pattaya was considerably cheaper, and also did not involve a side flight, most budget conscience tourists would chose Pattaya, especially if they google and see the considerable savings in food, alcohol and transport to go to Pattaya over Phuket.

The demographics of the tourists coming here has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. There will be no one left for the Phuket TAT to target unless there are some positive changes to the island, which I have never seen since coming here, and never seen since living here, which is the whole point of my posts.

Phuket can not keep replacing dissatisfied tourists with newbie tourists. It's just not sustainable tourism. You eventually run out of newbie tourists and gain a reputation as being a rip off, and I think Phuket is now at that point, in relation to western tourists.

Edited January 13, 2013 by NamKangMan

[billythehat]

Loss of Western European tourists is mainly down to the dire economic situation in Europe.

You know, I think it's much more complex than that. Maybe NKM put his finger on the problem. 10 -> 15 years ago much of the tourist trade was young people looking for fun, then it trended to couples and families looking for a good holiday vacation. The TAT tried to promote 'better quality tourists' as in more affluent tourists. For sure the global downturn did not help, the expensive Baht did not help. And now what do we have - tour packages from China, Tawain, other Asian countries, and now Russia. From what I can see it makes the 'arrival numbers' great but does not add much to the local business owner's economy. I really don't know where it all going to end or even the route it will take.

As mentioned, where did this market go? Why aren't they returning to Phuket for holidays, over and over? Why aren't the new markets complimenting the traditional western markets?

Why are many western tourists chosing other destinations in Thailand over Phuket? Why are some expats now living in other destinations in Thailand over Phuket?

Maybe Phuket will just end up as a cheap holiday destination for Thai's, built-up with farang money over a few decades. All the vacant hotels and guest houses may just end up being 300 baht per night rooms for Thai's to come to Phuket for a holiday after the tourists have long gone. The western restaurants and beer bars will slowly move to more profitable areas and along with that, so will the sex trade.

Once you are targeting the package holday makers, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. (no disrespect to any particular nationality)

Further more, if a couple of package holidays were placed in front of potential customers from emerging economies, say Phuket and Pattaya, and the package to Pattaya was considerably cheaper, and also did not involve a side flight, most budget conscience tourists would chose Pattaya, especially if they google and see the considerable savings in food, alcohol and transport to go to Pattaya over Phuket.

The demographics of the tourists coming here has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. There will be no one left for the Phuket TAT to target unless there are some positive changes to the island, which I have never seen since coming here, and never seen since living here, which is the whole point of my posts.

Phuket can not keep replacing dissatisfied tourists with newbie tourists. It's just not sustainable tourism. You eventually run out of newbie tourists and gain a reputation as being a rip off, and I think Phuket is now at that point, in relation to western tourists.

Some good points in your post, and the previous esteemed right honourable members. KB mentioned economic reasons but this has been compounded by the sheer expense of just getting there from Europe - £400+ of my ticket price to Lalaland (Dec 2012) was tax. Coupled with the devaluation of western currencies against the Baht (approx. £1=Bt74 in 2001 to £1=Bt49 in 2012) LLL stopped being a cheap long haul holiday some time ago. Where did the old crew go? Well, for the many reasons already done to death on these forums, they simply had choice. Having been a few times and observed the rapid degeneration of Phuket into a cash-cow for the mob, why would anybody with a family to protect return? The current mean spirited, obnoxious attitudes of the locals to those that would provide them with money, really grates with the majority of visitors who are decent folk, and does nothing to stop the unmasking of that great lie ‘land of smiles’. Everything changes and the sparkle of being in an enchanting place so different from your own wanes over time; I was tramping around the Island during Xmas/early January and was having a coffee in Patong – watching the passing of the tourists crowds, tattooed steroid muppets, fed up dads with their dour faced missus and whinging wee bairns, it reminded me of any holiday resort to be found (and avoided) in southern Spain, etc. Where it may it go? Probably in the direction to which you allude although I fear your hope for positive change may be unrealistic as even the most hardened Thai defender knows that the Buffalo has long since bolted.

[Arkady]

No worries about disgruntled European farangs. There are plenty of Russians and Chinese to replace them. The Chinese are coming in even greater numbers since the film "Lost in Thailand" took off there. They don't really want tourists who live here permanently anyway. The two week package groups are much easier to rip off and aren't watching every penny like retirees on a frozen sterling state pension. The police don't want to do anything about the armed motorbike gangs because one of them is always the son or nephew of a policeman.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Arkady