Question About Kasikornbank No Longer Accepting Us Citizens And Thai's Living In The Usa

[livinthailandos]

I have a question regarding a bank statement from kasikornbank that came out and posted in thai recently. From what I understand kasikornbank will no longer do any type of business or transactions with US citizens or thai's living in the usa. I believe this is in regards to what the us government is asking of thai's bank to disclose us citizens money in thai bank accounts and regarding the IRS. So now have to see if other banks will follow as well. If any of you can either backup the information I have or let me know that I'm wrong please post it.

Look foward to finding out

[chainarong]

Not surprised, When I opened a HSBC account in HK 2010 , the bank girl said ,i hope you are not a citizen of the US, as we are not allowed to open any accounts to US citizens, I am not from the US, so had no trouble.

[monty]

I doubt this is correct.

It has been reported that Kasikorn does not allow US citizens to invest in their mutual funds, but checking/savings accounts and even securities trading are allowed.

Other banks do not seem to have this limitation for US citizens regarding mutual fund investments.

Has been discussed here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/601524-kasikorn-no-longer-accepting-us-citizen-investments/

[parallaxtech]

I asked the bank manager of SCB where I have five savings accounts and he said that there are no regulations in Thailand that prevent a US citizen from opening a savings or fixed savings account.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I asked the bank manager of SCB where I have five savings accounts and he said that there are no regulations in Thailand that prevent a US citizen from opening a savings or fixed savings account.

That's correct but not the relevant question. As others and myself have posted about, all this stuff is related to the hyperactive IRS activity of recent years in bullying non-American financial institutions to provide information to them on accounts of their American clients (often in contravention of the local laws in which these banks are located). The latest assault by the American government on American businesses and expatriates living or retired overseas is FACTA and it implementing regulations.

The FACTA regulations require, under draconian financial penalties to the foreign banks, that they report various information on the accounts of American "persons" with accounts at their institutions. The big question the op asks is will foreign banks, securities brokers, etc., consider it worthwhile in terms of manpower and expense costs to comply with the regulations or just say the heck with it and not deal with American customers. It would still be perfectly legal under both Thai and American law for these banks to open accounts for Americans but it would just not be worthwhile financially to do so.

As has already been mentioned, many banks already don't want to deal with the IRS harassment and decline to open even simple savings accounts for Americans (but at least not yet in Thailand). This should be of major concern to all Americans living aboad for either work or retirement. The ability to have accounts at local banks is crucial to everyday life in a foreign country and it's really a sad day when one's own government seems determined to make this almost impossible.

[Lancelot]

The last time I was in K Bank, they siezed the American in front of me, took him out side and sumarily ex....

NOT! (OK bad joke )

Seriously the US government -in its infinite wisdom and ongoing war on terror, drugs, etc. etc- has placed so many additional reporting requirements on foreign banks doing business with US citizens that the accounts have become unprofitable.

Its not any bias agains US citizens per say, just that the new business is simply not worth the hassel. I have also heard of Americans being denied new bank accounts in europe as well...

[Soutpeel]

Thailand is mearly catching up with the rest of the region in this regard....if your a US citizen, go an try and open accounts in HK or Singapore...

[ross163103]

I'm an American citizen and I have a stepdaughter that's a branch manager for Kasikorn. I'll find out from her what the deal is and get back to this forum about this issue.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I'm an American citizen and I have a stepdaughter that's a branch manager for Kasikorn. I'll find out from her what the deal is and get back to this forum about this issue.

It's not a problem currently, as I, an American citizen, have opened up a couple new accounts at a couple banks within the past few weeks. However, additional reporting requirements and bank penalties under FACTA, come into effect later this year and this is when the banks may say enough and decline new and close existing accounts. Bank Ayudha came write out and said that under FACTA, mentioning it by name, that in June when these new regs come in force, they may close my account.

[chainarong]

As a addendum to my reply , I might add that in 2009 Singapore and 2010 H.K. signed agreements with the US to disclose any bank details of US citizens if they required them, so watch out, as the Thai banking sector comes up to international standards, as they say, take nothing for granted , same go's for all expats from other countries in Thai.

[Jingthing]

I'm an American citizen and I have a stepdaughter that's a branch manager for Kasikorn. I'll find out from her what the deal is and get back to this forum about this issue.

It's not a problem currently, as I, an American citizen, have opened up a couple new accounts at a couple banks within the past few weeks. However, additional reporting requirements and bank penalties under FACTA, come into effect later this year and this is when the banks may say enough and decline new and close existing accounts. Bank Ayudha came write out and said that under FACTA, mentioning it by name, that in June when these new regs come in force, they may close my account.

Yes we need to monitor these things. Based on what you said, I reckon Americans should not bother opening accounts at Bank Ayudha!

[thrilled]

I've been A member of kbank for 4 years now.Just last week I went into my account.Not A problem.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I'm an American citizen and I have a stepdaughter that's a branch manager for Kasikorn. I'll find out from her what the deal is and get back to this forum about this issue.

It's not a problem currently, as I, an American citizen, have opened up a couple new accounts at a couple banks within the past few weeks. However, additional reporting requirements and bank penalties under FACTA, come into effect later this year and this is when the banks may say enough and decline new and close existing accounts. Bank Ayudha came write out and said that under FACTA, mentioning it by name, that in June when these new regs come in force, they may close my account.

Yes we need to monitor these things. Based on what you said, I reckon Americans should not bother opening accounts at Bank Ayudha!

I wouldn't go that far...mainly because it would likely be the same decision by most/all of the private sector banks in Thailand. My operating assumption is that when these new regs start to hit American BUSINESSES with operations overseas (worldwide, not just Thailand), then we will see modifications in the law making compliance by banks less onerous. American businesses, more than even expats, need access to local banking systems to conduct their everyday business of import/export, manufacturing, and services, and when they get turned down or shown the door, the regs will go out the window.

I've got no problem with reporting interest/dividends/etc by foreign banks/brokers to the Feds ala US banks are required to do, just don't want it to be so onerous that local banks don't want to deal with us...that's the problem with these regs. I will keep my fingers crossed that what I wrote above does indeed come to pass. There is also the exception on reporting on American accounts by state-owned banks, so in Thailand, this would leave us with Government Savings Bank, Krung Thai Bank, Thai Military Bank (possibly majority owned by gov't.) and a couple others.

[Lancelot]

I've been A member of kbank for 4 years now.Just last week I went into my account.Not A problem.

Same here with my existing account but I think foreign banks are becomming reluctant to open new accounts for US citizens.

[Jingthing]

My point is clearly each bank is going to make their own business decision, and if we are hearing a report from a specific bank threatening to cut ties with Americans, why would you consider opening an account with that bank if you don't already have one?

[ross163103]

I doubt this is correct.

It has been reported that Kasikorn does not allow US citizens to invest in their mutual funds, but checking/savings accounts and even securities trading are allowed.

Other banks do not seem to have this limitation for US citizens regarding mutual fund investments.

Has been discussed here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/601524-kasikorn-no-longer-accepting-us-citizen-investments/

What Monty says is correct acording to my relative who is a branch manager for Kasikorn. Normal savings/checking accounts are not a problem, but Americans are not allowed to buy certain mutual funds. I'll keep posting on this if/when any new info becomes available......especially after June.

[Soutpeel]

My point is clearly each bank is going to make their own business decision, and if we are hearing a report from a specific bank threatening to cut ties with Americans, why would you consider opening an account with that bank if you don't already have one?

its your own goverment thats causing this, not the banks...

[Jingthing]

My point is clearly each bank is going to make their own business decision, and if we are hearing a report from a specific bank threatening to cut ties with Americans, why would you consider opening an account with that bank if you don't already have one?

its your own goverment thats causing this, not the banks...

Not massively relevant really to us who is causing it. What's relevant is how we cope. So U.S. people DO need to monitor which banks are changing policies about dealing with Americans, which are not. We've covered before there is a U.S. lobbying agency trying to help us out and reduce the damage but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about what they can accomplish. (American Citizens Abroad.) Edited January 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[Suradit69]

My point is clearly each bank is going to make their own business decision, and if we are hearing a report from a specific bank threatening to cut ties with Americans, why would you consider opening an account with that bank if you don't already have one?

its your own goverment thats causing this, not the banks...

Not massively relevant really to us who is causing it. What's relevant is how we cope. So U.S. people DO need to monitor which banks are changing policies about dealing with Americans, which are not. We've covered before there is a U.S. lobbying agency trying to help us out and reduce the damage but I wouldn't be overly optimistic about what they can accomplish. (American Citizens Abroad.)

"So U.S. people DO need to monitor which banks are changing policies about dealing with Americans ..."

Can't see much point in "monitoring" it via ThaiVisa message boards since so many people seem to misinterpret any information they obtain or experiences they've had regarding Immigrations or banking or anything else in Thailand. Already people seem to have decided that Kasikorn is not accepting new US savings accounts, when it appears that limitation is only being applied to Mutual Funds.

And, like issues with Immigrations, if swarms of farang start making a fuss at their local bank branch it's more likely to provoke any changes that are open to local manager discretion than to resolve anything ... just as changes in Immigration policy often follow lengthy discussion on TV about ways to circumvent existing policies. I'm sure Thais who monitor Thai Visa must find it a fascinating soap opera or like a day at the zoo.

The TV Drama Queens always seem intent on creating problems when they don't exist and constructing mountains out of nonexistent molehills.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Suradit69

[Jingthing]

Anyone reading this forum actually will get the actual info about Kasikorn -- that they are restricting certain kinds of INVESTMENT accounts for Americans. Where else do you suggest that we use to discuss, confirm, or deny the many RUMORS that are bound to pop up as we go forward with this change from the U.S. government that in objective fact IS going to prompt a reaction from some foreign banks, and presumably some of them will be in THAILAND?

[partington]

This is a very real problem for Americans, and there are reports of banks all over Europe and Asia considering the option of simply refusing to open accounts for US citizens rather than cope with the expense, and legal difficulties in countries with different privacy laws, that would be triggered by complying with FATCA.

They don't have to make these decisions until 2014, and so new information will be emerging from now until then, some of it probably extremely unwelcome.

It makes absolute sense to monitor Thai banks and make information available about any decisions that are made by them in this forum.

[caughtintheact]

Actually this is what can happen when when you are a citizen of about the only country which taxes its citizens at home on what they earn abroad. And this is one of the consequences of having a tax treaty.

For the Americans who read this, FACTA is the result of a 2010 law. Go to the IRS web site www.irs.gov and do a form search for 8938 and then read the instructions for that form. The file name is i8938.pdf . There are certain thresholds that require reporting amounts in foreign accounts. If all your your foreign bank accounts total less than $200K you probably don't have to report (but read the instructions, don't believe me). If you have large amounts in Thai banks and/or Singapore banks or other non-U.S. banks you may be required to report and pay additional taxes.

And by the way, there is another required report called an FBAR (the IRS omitted the U, but never forgets YOU) . FBAR stands for Foreign Bank Account Report (look it up) , that requires reports from any American who has $10,000 in total foreign accounts at any time during a given year. In other words if you have 2 non-U.S.accounts and each has $4999 in them, you are not required to submit the FBAR, because at the end of the year, you will only have $9998. But if interest amounts to only $2 (making a total of 10K) and you don't submit the FBAR, you could be fined $10,000. The law requiring the FBAR was passed in 2009.

In summary, once someone has submitted the FBAR the IRS knows where you keep your money abroad. The FACTA requirement will probably have to match your FBAR or you will be in trouble.

As for Kasikorn and other non-U.S. banks, my suspicion is that they will not tell you just what they are required to report (and if you are wondering why they have to, it is because of financial leverage by the USA as well as the tax treaty - a good case of be careful what you wish for, or, you only thought there was a free lunch. But this should not bother a number of you. After all I hear screaming, ranting and raving about let's tax the rich, and some of you might have just discovered that you are now one of the "rich".

[Soutpeel]

This is a very real problem for Americans, and there are reports of banks all over Europe and Asia considering the option of simply refusing to open accounts for US citizens rather than cope with the expense,

"Considering".....As an American citizen, try and open an "offshore" account in Singapore with Citibank....they are not considering anything...they will not do it....first question when you walk in the door...are you a US Citizen ? and its been that way for quite a years already.

[Naam]

Actually this is what can happen when when you are a citizen of about the only country which taxes its citizens at home on what they earn abroad. And this is one of the consequences of having a tax treaty.

i beg your pardon?! most countries tax their citizens at home on their gains abroad if they reside "at home".

[Soutpeel]

Actually this is what can happen when when you are a citizen of about the only country which taxes its citizens at home on what they earn abroad. And this is one of the consequences of having a tax treaty.

i beg your pardon?! most countries tax their citizens at home on their gains abroad if they reside "at home".

and if I may add....one of the reasons for having a reciprocal tax agreement is to stop you being taxed twice on the same money...therefore a tax agreement is a good thing..

[Naam]

Actually this is what can happen when when you are a citizen of about the only country which taxes its citizens at home on what they earn abroad. And this is one of the consequences of having a tax treaty.

i beg your pardon?! most countries tax their citizens at home on their gains abroad if they reside "at home".

and if I may add....one of the reasons for having a reciprocal tax agreement is to stop you being taxed twice on the same money...therefore a tax agreement is a good thing..

a much better thing is living in Thailand and paying no income tax

[JimGant]

Actually this is what can happen when when you are a citizen of about the only country which taxes its citizens at home on what they earn abroad. And this is one of the consequences of having a tax treaty.

i beg your pardon?! most countries tax their citizens at home on their gains abroad if they reside "at home".

and if I may add....one of the reasons for having a reciprocal tax agreement is to stop you being taxed twice on the same money...therefore a tax agreement is a good thing..

a much better thing is living in Thailand and paying no income tax

Na'am, are all your German related incomes (government, private pensions; dividends from German investments; etc) exempt from German taxes?

[borisr]

This thread contains a lot of misinformation.

1. US citizens can open banking accounts in HK and Singapore. Specificaly , it has been said that it is impossible to open banking account in CITIBANK SINGAPORE. Not true. However, if you are not Singapore resident, you need to open account with CITIBANK SINGAPORE INTERNATIONAL. I have such an account. Moreover, CITIBANK, as US bank is not counted as foreign financial institution by FATCA rules. Therefore, its foreign branches will welcome US citizens after July 2014 (if it is not prohibited by local regulations).

2. It is not true that government banks excluded from FATCA. Therefore, do not expect any difference between government and nongovernment banks in Thailand vis-a-vis US citizens

3. Most of the US accounts in foreign banks will not be reported to IRS under FATCA. The threshold on reportable accounts has been raised many times and is now 1 million US Dollars , if I am not mistaken. There are, however, other reasons why banks may decide to close all US accounts.

4. US companies whose shares are traded on stock exchanges (somewhere) are exempt from FATCA and therefore their foreign accounts will not be effected. Thus, forget about big buisnesses protesting against FATCA.

Let me put it this way: FATCA is the most idiotic law in American history and will mostly effect US expats and those Americans who try to keep their funds offshore in attempt to protect their assets from possible confiscation and capital controls of bankrupt US govermnent.

Edited September 12, 2013 by borisr

[CaptHaddock]

FATCA effects could become a problem for American expats in Thailand. If you are worried about it, open an account at Bangkok Bank. Bangkok Bank has invested in developing business based on its integration with the US banking system: it has a New York branch for wholesale banking and is the only Thai bank designated to receive Social Security payments. Even if FATCA reporting burdens are somewhat onerous for banks, it seems unlikely that BB would walk away from its existing US-related business. Plus you get the benefit of free ACH transfers from US banks. Frankly, I don't see why Americans would bother with any other bank. The online bill-paying features are perfectly adequate for us as well.

[Soutpeel]

This thread contains a lot of misinformation.

1. US citizens can open banking accounts in HK and Singapore. Specificaly , it has been said that it is impossible to open banking account in CITIBANK SINGAPORE. Not true. However, if you are not Singapore resident, you need to open account with CITIBANK SINGAPORE INTERNATIONAL. I have such an account. Moreover, CITIBANK, as US bank is not counted as foreign financial institution by FATCA rules. Therefore, its foreign branches will welcome US citizens after July 2014 (if it is not prohibited by local regulations).

2. It is not true that government banks excluded from FATCA. Therefore, do not expect any difference between government and nongovernment banks in Thailand vis-a-vis US citizens

3. Most of the US accounts in foreign banks will not be reported to IRS under FATCA. The threshold on reportable accounts has been raised many times and is now 1 million US Dollars , if I am not mistaken. There are, however, other reasons why banks may decide to close all US accounts.

4. US companies whose shares are traded on stock exchanges (somewhere) are exempt from FATCA and therefore their foreign accounts will not be effected. Thus, forget about big buisnesses protesting against FATCA.

Let me put it this way: FATCA is the most idiotic law in American history and will mostly effect US expats and those Americans who try to keep their funds offshore in attempt to protect their assets from possible confiscation and capital controls of bankrupt US govermnent.

Er no one has said you can't open an account with citi in Singapore.....believe what was said is they are reluctant do it and you have to sign a from which asks if you are a US citizen or not......further a colleague of mine who is a US citizen was declined an account with citi Singapore on the basis of being a US citizen when he attempted to open an offshore account, to deposit his Thailand derived salary with Citi IPB....this fact and I know all because I did the introduction for him with Citi Singapore