Alcohol Crackdown In Force: Thailand

[upena]

Road deaths and accidents as reported by the Thai Government so they are most likely 3-5 times higher.

[Nisa]

I'd bet the actual number of casualties/deaths is way higher. I seem to remember reading a study by the UN which stated Thailand (and many other SE Asia countries, China in particular) under reported these stats to look better. Plus, if they don't die immediately, but die at a significantly later time in the hospital, they don't log it as a traffic fatality. Go figure.

Consider since they are reporting numbers in almost real time here it would seem impossible at this point (as with anywhere else reporting deaths over the holiday weekend) to count people who die at a later date.

The numbers the UN uses to compare countries are all adjusted to represent equal reporting which if I remember correctly is deaths that occur within a month of an accident. Countries all over the world record road fatalities differently be it died at the scene to just about any time frame beyond that. The numbers compiled by the UN use formulas to make the numbers reflect a standard so they can be compared.

So, when you look at a chart like the one here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

You can see Thailand falls just below the world average for vehicle deaths per capita (population) but is above the global average for deaths per number of vehicles which is probably largely due to the fact there are a lot more motorbikes than cars and worse a lot more motorbike drivers and passengers not wearing helmets..

Edited December 31, 2012 by Nisa

[hawker9000]

DUIs in The U.S. are FELONY PERIOD. I presume its the same in the U.K., Canada, Australia as well and more often than not requires

the retainer of an Attorney which are not cheap, which can argue the finer points of how breathalizerthe test were given by a policeman at the scene

& a host of other legal finer points used in the defense of his or her client.

DUIs are not always clear cut and dry..but no way in hell are any of the judges bribed, policemen also...those in themselves are felonies as weil

DUIs are usually misdemeanors, not felonies, in the U.S., although there IS such a thing as "felony DUI" in some states where, say, injuries, child passengers, or past offenses are involved. Do yourself a favor and get the facts before posting crap.

[Nisa]

Has anyone ever thought to mention to them that it is the consumption of alcohol which is the problem and not the selling of it?

So, it's ok for Somchai to buy a large bottle of rum at lunchtime, consume it during the afternoon, then drive home shitfaced, but if I want to buy a can of beer at 4:30 to enjoy when I get home that is not ok...

Are there many countries out there that don't have laws in terms of when, where, who and how alcohol can be sold?

[hgma]

Whatever!

I love these socalled campaigns,it keeps every body talking (like us) and never works out.

remember the" Car hand-off phone or else" campaign........Thai read 360, that is... they are encouraged to START using their phones in their cars, so they can show off to their friends that they all have "powerful" friends with the police force.

2012 started with 555555

2013 begins with 555555

Thats why i'm here, 24/7 happy hours 2013

I wish you all have the same next year!

take care you all its not a joke to get rammed in a ditch tonight !!

[khunken]

Has anyone ever thought to mention to them that it is the consumption of alcohol which is the problem and not the selling of it?

So, it's ok for Somchai to buy a large bottle of rum at lunchtime, consume it during the afternoon, then drive home shitfaced, but if I want to buy a can of beer at 4:30 to enjoy when I get home that is not ok...

Are there many countries out there that don't have laws in terms of when, where, who and how alcohol can be sold?

Yes, but they usually have some sort of reasoning behind the hours allowed. The 2:00 to 5:00 ban is just stupid and outside of major supermarkets, not enforced. I'd love to see some sort of study that provides (or doesn't provide) a link between the multiple bans on the sale of alcohol and drunk driving.

[Nisa]

Has anyone ever thought to mention to them that it is the consumption of alcohol which is the problem and not the selling of it?

So, it's ok for Somchai to buy a large bottle of rum at lunchtime, consume it during the afternoon, then drive home shitfaced, but if I want to buy a can of beer at 4:30 to enjoy when I get home that is not ok...

Are there many countries out there that don't have laws in terms of when, where, who and how alcohol can be sold?

Yes, but they usually have some sort of reasoning behind the hours allowed. The 2:00 to 5:00 ban is just stupid and outside of major supermarkets, not enforced. I'd love to see some sort of study that provides (or doesn't provide) a link between the multiple bans on the sale of alcohol and drunk driving.

So there is a better reason for places to ban alcohol sales late at night when fewer cars are on the road but not in the afternoon when there are considerably more people on the roads (especially kids)? Also, if it is not enforced then why even comment on it? If the Supermarkets and 711s are enforcing it then it is reducing the alcohol being sold during this time and in turn will reduce the number of folks popping open beers on their drive home. If you want to drink alcohol at any hour be it Thailand or any other country that allows legal sale of alcohol then you can very easily. So, no sale hours are going to address the drinking and driving problem but only make minimal impact regardless of the hours but the bottom line being is that less availability will always mean less consumption.

[drdoom6996]

Another sound bite. They do nothing but talk.

[khunken]

Has anyone ever thought to mention to them that it is the consumption of alcohol which is the problem and not the selling of it?

So, it's ok for Somchai to buy a large bottle of rum at lunchtime, consume it during the afternoon, then drive home shitfaced, but if I want to buy a can of beer at 4:30 to enjoy when I get home that is not ok...

Are there many countries out there that don't have laws in terms of when, where, who and how alcohol can be sold?

Yes, but they usually have some sort of reasoning behind the hours allowed. The 2:00 to 5:00 ban is just stupid and outside of major supermarkets, not enforced. I'd love to see some sort of study that provides (or doesn't provide) a link between the multiple bans on the sale of alcohol and drunk driving.

So there is a better reason for places to ban alcohol sales late at night when fewer cars are on the road but not in the afternoon when there are considerably more people on the roads (especially kids)? Also, if it is not enforced then why even comment on it? If the Supermarkets and 711s are enforcing it then it is reducing the alcohol being sold during this time and in turn will reduce the number of folks popping open beers on their drive home. If you want to drink alcohol at any hour be it Thailand or any other country that allows legal sale of alcohol then you can very easily. So, no sale hours are going to address the drinking and driving problem but only make minimal impact regardless of the hours but the bottom line being is that less availability will always mean less consumption.

Don't agree that the afternoon ban has any effect on reducing the amount of drunk driving or safety for kids on the road. As I said I haven't seen any 'cause & effect' studies proving the link. I object to it because it has forcibly changed my shopping hours when I want to buy alcohol for home consumption. Yes, I can buy alcohol from the small shops who ignore the ban but they charge more for it. I don't drive & accept sale restrictions - when they make sense.

[khunano]

You can go to any village in Thailand, except maybe in the southernmost areas, and there will likely be rice moonshine for sale; 40% alcohol - for a pittance. It's so easy to get drunk in this country, it's shameful. I've seen men and women walking on jelly legs at 10 in the morning. How can there be a crackdown on alcohol when nearly all politicians and police/army brass are whiskey guzzlers, and the top 'drug fighter' in the country (Chalerm) also sucks whiskey every day and night. Amazing Thailand, indeed.

Well said, two days ago somewhere in Isaan at my wife's sister house, me asking her where is your brother (a policeman) who lives next door? Answer: he is still sleeping, had to work a night shift, oh I see, and, she added, he got drunk while on duty, oh well.....T.I.T.!!

[Breville]

"selling alcoholic drinks in prohibited places, including public parks, petrol stations, pharmacies and government offices." ??? <deleted> ! Could you imagine walking into a pharmacy in Australia and saying "I'll have some cold and flu tablets, a packet of Aspros, and half a dozen stubbies of VB" HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

[chris1dna]

What has the disease control got to do with it?

Alcoholism is a disease which leads to breakdowns of relationships and anti-social behavior, such as drink-driving.

Another reason may be that medicos might be less likely to turn a blind eye (for suitable compensation) than the BIB.

Identifying alcoholism a disease is a BS excuse for weak people who can't resist taking a drink. If it were a disease, what an easy cure...STOP DRINKING!!! If only cancer, heart disease, ALS and other REAL diseases were that easy to cure.

Maybe you could do some research in it yourself a bit more. The term Ignorance is perfectly appropriate in this circumstance. Simply switching terms from disease (your original post I believe) to "syndrome" does not strengthen your argument. I won't derail the thread to post all of the "facts" about this here. But I believe that if you look deeply and actually do some "research" your self you will find ample evidence supporting the opposite of your assertions. Syndrome or disease or whatever you wish to name it, it is NOT simply weak minded individuals who make a conscious decision to ruin their lives everyday. I can agree with you on a few points you have made though. The fact the person has to take responsibility IS part of the solution and part of the individuals recovery. Disease as a term is NOT used as a reason to escape that responsibility however. Your biased view and mixing of the terms to suit your stance is thin and apparent and I hope folks who read this understand that the medical condition of alcoholism and or addiction is often misunderstood when medical terms are mixed with "recovery terms"

Also, the "recovery industry" as you point out is not some giant conglomerate bending the establishment to bid it favor. It is a thankfully growing part of the medical sector helping folks find a better way of life. There is so much more to explain but that's it in a nutshell. Good luck to you and your seemingly judgmental view of this topic. If it serves you well then good in yas. Cheers and Happy New Years.

[maturebrit]

You can go to any village in Thailand, except maybe in the southernmost areas, and there will likely be rice moonshine for sale; 40% alcohol - for a pittance. It's so easy to get drunk in this country, it's shameful. I've seen men and women walking on jelly legs at 10 in the morning. How can there be a crackdown on alcohol when nearly all politicians and police/army brass are whiskey guzzlers, and the top 'drug fighter' in the country (Chalerm) also sucks whiskey every day and night. Amazing Thailand, indeed.

in our region outside korat. .its not uncommon to see people pouring thai whiskey down their necks at 7 am...and thats nothing to do with new year.....more like new day lol

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[maidu]

I'm compelled to chime in on the 'disease' label which has been tagged on acoholism. IT IS NOT A DISEASE. Unless one defines 'disease' as being weak-willed and addicted to something. With that definition, coffee, cigarettes could be called diseases. They're not. Because so many people, including some of our most prominent, political, popular and richest icons are alcoholics, soceity has had to bend the word 'disease' to apply to their excesses. Disease includes infectious agents. Drinking is not infectious. Drinking involves using your hand to grasp a recepticle, lift it up to your mouth and pour it down your gullet. That is not infectious or a disease.

The same types of people who want us to believe alcoholism is a disease are the types who laud researchers who say 'wine is good for you,' or 'there's a gay gene.' ...both of which are bogus. It wasn't so long ago that people were told electricity was a cure-all, and that cigarettes were good for you, and that tomatos are poisonous. Alcoholics: we love you when you're not making messes and causing everyone's expenses to go up, or when you're not beating your wives, or not plowing your vehicles in to vans full of kids, ......but don't expect truckloads of sympathy from us responsible people, ....for your debilitating and harmful habits.

[Nisa]

I'm compelled to chime in on the 'disease' label which has been tagged on acoholism. IT IS NOT A DISEASE. Unless one defines 'disease' as being weak-willed and addicted to something. With that definition, coffee, cigarettes could be called diseases. They're not. Because so many people, including some of our most prominent, political, popular and richest icons are alcoholics, soceity has had to bend the word 'disease' to apply to their excesses. Disease includes infectious agents. Drinking is not infectious. Drinking involves using your hand to grasp a recepticle, lift it up to your mouth and pour it down your gullet. That is not infectious or a disease.

The same types of people who want us to believe alcoholism is a disease are the types who laud researchers who say 'wine is good for you,' or 'there's a gay gene.' ...both of which are bogus. It wasn't so long ago that people were told electricity was a cure-all, and that cigarettes were good for you, and that tomatos are poisonous. Alcoholics: we love you when you're not making messes and causing everyone's expenses to go up, or when you're not beating your wives, or not plowing your vehicles in to vans full of kids, ......but don't expect truckloads of sympathy from us responsible people, ....for your debilitating and harmful habits.

The mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is indeed a disease. In fact it is seen as a chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. This information is so very easy to look-up and verify that I won't bother to provide links. It is one thing to not suffer (or be in self denial) about a disease and to not understand it but another to make blanket statements (opinions) and express them as fact when they go against what both the medical and scientific community have concluded. No doubt there are some within the community who have a different theory than the accepted one but you'll also find some folks in the scientific community that believe in the history of the bible vs. evolution.

While you are entitled to your opinions, you should realize they are just that and not make such idiotic statements as fact especially in terms of the motives for why folks much more informed and educated than you on a subject have reached their conclusions.

Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Nisa

[Thai at Heart]

I'm compelled to chime in on the 'disease' label which has been tagged on acoholism. IT IS NOT A DISEASE. Unless one defines 'disease' as being weak-willed and addicted to something. With that definition, coffee, cigarettes could be called diseases. They're not. Because so many people, including some of our most prominent, political, popular and richest icons are alcoholics, soceity has had to bend the word 'disease' to apply to their excesses. Disease includes infectious agents. Drinking is not infectious. Drinking involves using your hand to grasp a recepticle, lift it up to your mouth and pour it down your gullet. That is not infectious or a disease.

The same types of people who want us to believe alcoholism is a disease are the types who laud researchers who say 'wine is good for you,' or 'there's a gay gene.' ...both of which are bogus. It wasn't so long ago that people were told electricity was a cure-all, and that cigarettes were good for you, and that tomatos are poisonous. Alcoholics: we love you when you're not making messes and causing everyone's expenses to go up, or when you're not beating your wives, or not plowing your vehicles in to vans full of kids, ......but don't expect truckloads of sympathy from us responsible people, ....for your debilitating and harmful habits.

The mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is indeed a disease. In fact it is seen as a chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. This information is so very easy to look-up and verify that I won't bother to provide links. It is one thing to not suffer (or be in self denial) about a disease and to not understand it but another to make blanket statements (opinions) and express them as fact when they go against what both the medical and scientific community have concluded. No doubt there are some within the community who have a different theory than the accepted one but you'll also find some folks in the scientific community that believe in the history of the bible vs. evolution.

While you are entitled to your opinions, you should realize they are just that and not make such idiotic statements as fact especially in terms of the motives for why folks much more informed and educated than you on a subject have reached their conclusions.

Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous.

And the treatment is very complicated. Not drinking.

Addictions are not diseases in my opinion, an any more than megalomania, kleptomania, or addiction to hard drugs. The treatments may require medication, but that does not make it a disease.

[khaowong1]

"selling alcoholic drinks in prohibited places, including public parks, petrol stations, pharmacies and government offices." ??? <deleted> ! Could you imagine walking into a pharmacy in Australia and saying "I'll have some cold and flu tablets, a packet of Aspros, and half a dozen stubbies of VB" HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

I was thinking similar thoughts.. Pharmacies and govt. offices.. Jeez... this country is really Amazing..

[Nisa]

I'm compelled to chime in on the 'disease' label which has been tagged on acoholism. IT IS NOT A DISEASE. Unless one defines 'disease' as being weak-willed and addicted to something. With that definition, coffee, cigarettes could be called diseases. They're not. Because so many people, including some of our most prominent, political, popular and richest icons are alcoholics, soceity has had to bend the word 'disease' to apply to their excesses. Disease includes infectious agents. Drinking is not infectious. Drinking involves using your hand to grasp a recepticle, lift it up to your mouth and pour it down your gullet. That is not infectious or a disease.

The same types of people who want us to believe alcoholism is a disease are the types who laud researchers who say 'wine is good for you,' or 'there's a gay gene.' ...both of which are bogus. It wasn't so long ago that people were told electricity was a cure-all, and that cigarettes were good for you, and that tomatos are poisonous. Alcoholics: we love you when you're not making messes and causing everyone's expenses to go up, or when you're not beating your wives, or not plowing your vehicles in to vans full of kids, ......but don't expect truckloads of sympathy from us responsible people, ....for your debilitating and harmful habits.

The mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is indeed a disease. In fact it is seen as a chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. This information is so very easy to look-up and verify that I won't bother to provide links. It is one thing to not suffer (or be in self denial) about a disease and to not understand it but another to make blanket statements (opinions) and express them as fact when they go against what both the medical and scientific community have concluded. No doubt there are some within the community who have a different theory than the accepted one but you'll also find some folks in the scientific community that believe in the history of the bible vs. evolution.

While you are entitled to your opinions, you should realize they are just that and not make such idiotic statements as fact especially in terms of the motives for why folks much more informed and educated than you on a subject have reached their conclusions.

Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous.

And the treatment is very complicated. Not drinking.

Addictions are not diseases in my opinion, an any more than megalomania, kleptomania, or addiction to hard drugs. The treatments may require medication, but that does not make it a disease.

While I respect your opinion, I think if you did some further research you might change your mind. Not every person who drinks daily or abusing alcohol is an alcoholic or is every alcoholic addicted. Consider the simply fact that it has been proven that alcoholism has a hereditary component just as many other diseases where both genetic predisposition and environmental factors play a part in if the person will be affected. There are many many alcoholics in the world that don't drink and have the will power not to drink and know that alcohol effects them differently than non-alcoholics while others may go their entire life without ever becoming aware of their disease because they never picked up a drink. A disease doesn't always require medication nor does having some diseases mean you will have a shorter life or any adverse physical ailment.

Diabetes also has a hereditary link and some people will develop this disease even if they eat and exercise just as much as others. Others will not develop the disease or keep it under control through lifestyle choices (same as a sober alcoholic) to control the disease that is often passed on to them. While others it really don't matter what they do and they are going to need medication to control the disease.

[waza]

I'm compelled to chime in on the 'disease' label which has been tagged on acoholism. IT IS NOT A DISEASE. Unless one defines 'disease' as being weak-willed and addicted to something. With that definition, coffee, cigarettes could be called diseases. They're not. Because so many people, including some of our most prominent, political, popular and richest icons are alcoholics, soceity has had to bend the word 'disease' to apply to their excesses. Disease includes infectious agents. Drinking is not infectious. Drinking involves using your hand to grasp a recepticle, lift it up to your mouth and pour it down your gullet. That is not infectious or a disease.

The same types of people who want us to believe alcoholism is a disease are the types who laud researchers who say 'wine is good for you,' or 'there's a gay gene.' ...both of which are bogus. It wasn't so long ago that people were told electricity was a cure-all, and that cigarettes were good for you, and that tomatos are poisonous. Alcoholics: we love you when you're not making messes and causing everyone's expenses to go up, or when you're not beating your wives, or not plowing your vehicles in to vans full of kids, ......but don't expect truckloads of sympathy from us responsible people, ....for your debilitating and harmful habits.

The mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is indeed a disease. In fact it is seen as a chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. This information is so very easy to look-up and verify that I won't bother to provide links. It is one thing to not suffer (or be in self denial) about a disease and to not understand it but another to make blanket statements (opinions) and express them as fact when they go against what both the medical and scientific community have concluded. No doubt there are some within the community who have a different theory than the accepted one but you'll also find some folks in the scientific community that believe in the history of the bible vs. evolution.

While you are entitled to your opinions, you should realize they are just that and not make such idiotic statements as fact especially in terms of the motives for why folks much more informed and educated than you on a subject have reached their conclusions.

Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous.

Alcoholic hepatitis/ pancreatitis is a disease caused by alcoholism or alcohol abuse . Alcoholism (alcohol dependence) and alcohol abuse are two different forms of problem drinking. Alcoholism is when you have signs of physical addiction to alcohol and continues to drink, despite problems with physical health, mental health, and social, family, or job responsibilities. Alcohol may control your life and relationships. Alcohol abuse is when your drinking leads to problems, but not physical addiction, its a habit. "Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous."

Edited December 31, 2012 by waza

[Thai at Heart]

I'm compelled to chime in on the 'disease' label which has been tagged on acoholism. IT IS NOT A DISEASE. Unless one defines 'disease' as being weak-willed and addicted to something. With that definition, coffee, cigarettes could be called diseases. They're not. Because so many people, including some of our most prominent, political, popular and richest icons are alcoholics, soceity has had to bend the word 'disease' to apply to their excesses. Disease includes infectious agents. Drinking is not infectious. Drinking involves using your hand to grasp a recepticle, lift it up to your mouth and pour it down your gullet. That is not infectious or a disease.

The same types of people who want us to believe alcoholism is a disease are the types who laud researchers who say 'wine is good for you,' or 'there's a gay gene.' ...both of which are bogus. It wasn't so long ago that people were told electricity was a cure-all, and that cigarettes were good for you, and that tomatos are poisonous. Alcoholics: we love you when you're not making messes and causing everyone's expenses to go up, or when you're not beating your wives, or not plowing your vehicles in to vans full of kids, ......but don't expect truckloads of sympathy from us responsible people, ....for your debilitating and harmful habits.

The mainstream scientific and medical view is that alcoholism is indeed a disease. In fact it is seen as a chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. This information is so very easy to look-up and verify that I won't bother to provide links. It is one thing to not suffer (or be in self denial) about a disease and to not understand it but another to make blanket statements (opinions) and express them as fact when they go against what both the medical and scientific community have concluded. No doubt there are some within the community who have a different theory than the accepted one but you'll also find some folks in the scientific community that believe in the history of the bible vs. evolution.

While you are entitled to your opinions, you should realize they are just that and not make such idiotic statements as fact especially in terms of the motives for why folks much more informed and educated than you on a subject have reached their conclusions.

Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous.

And the treatment is very complicated. Not drinking.

Addictions are not diseases in my opinion, an any more than megalomania, kleptomania, or addiction to hard drugs. The treatments may require medication, but that does not make it a disease.

While I respect your opinion, I think if you did some further research you might change your mind. Not every person who drinks daily or abusing alcohol is an alcoholic or is every alcoholic addicted. Consider the simply fact that it has been proven that alcoholism has a hereditary component just as many other diseases where both genetic predisposition and environmental factors play a part in if the person will be affected. There are many many alcoholics in the world that don't drink and have the will power not to drink and know that alcohol effects them differently than non-alcoholics while others may go their entire life without ever becoming aware of their disease because they never picked up a drink. A disease doesn't always require medication nor does having some diseases mean you will have a shorter life or any adverse physical ailment.

Diabetes also has a hereditary link and some people will develop this disease even if they eat and exercise just as much as others. Others will not develop the disease or keep it under control through lifestyle choices (same as a sober alcoholic) to control the disease that is often passed on to them. While others it really don't matter what they do and they are going to need medication to control the disease.

I have plenty of personal up front experience with alcoholism, having seen a very close relative drink themselves to death over a 10 year period.

This obviously colours my view, but, the entire damage that relative inflicted was self inflicted. It occurred for a psychologically complicated reason, but that does not in my opinion make the problem a disease.

[exalll]

I'm surprised that no-one has discussed the Nation graphic. It is worthy of debate.

First of all, it is a lousy graphic! You have to work to understand it. But what does it tell us?

In the three days Dec. 29-31 in 2011, there were a certain number of accidents, injuries and deaths over the period that is considered especially dangerous. In the three days Dec 27-29 in 2012, there were virtually the same number of accidents, injuries and deaths - slightly less, but almost certainly not statistically significant. Does this mean that we can expect the number of accidents, injuries and deaths over the period Dec. 29-31 in 2012 to be much higher than in 2011? Or does it mean that the period Dec. 29-31 is actually no more dangerous than any other 3-day period?

From the data provided, it is impossible to tell. So why doesn't the Nation provide us with data that are actually useful?

[chooka]

It's preposterous to keep reading this tripe that the newspapers go with about this driving when under the influence and "punishment."

They can't even follow up and punish a hit and run cop killing while under the influence of alcohol and drugs, according to reports in this newspaper. Not only a hit and run cop killing, but dragging the copper through the streets of Bangkok f or 200 meters and then colluding with senior police to "cover up" and have a staff take the fall for the hit and run killing.

Who would take the Thai police or government seriously when they threaten "punishment" for drunk driving when they can't seem to indict a criminal for that hit and run cop killing that was all the news rage in September? Shameful application of Thai law, isn't it?

That might actually send a message through all tiers of Thai society. The Hi-so's will be thinking, geez they are actually going to start charging and prosecting us and the average Joe will be thinking, if they are charging the hiso's what are they going to do to us if we step on out dicks? The whole Thai society may have to start to make a concerted effort to obey the laws.

[chooka]

DUIs in The U.S. are FELONY PERIOD. I presume its the same in the U.K., Canada, Australia as well and more often than not requires the retainer of an Attorney which are not cheap, which can argue the finer points of how breathalizer the test were given by a policeman at the scene & a host of other legal finer points used in the defense of his or her client.

DUIs are not always clear cut and dry..but no way in hell are any of the judges bribed, policemen also...those in themselves are felonies as well.

Not in Australia, no power of arrest, you can refuse a breath test. There are offences of refusing tho but still no power to arrest . Charges are traffic matters and heard in the lower court and no requirement to attend court as they can be heard ex parte. Different circumstances apply if an accident accured and persons were seriously injured or killed tho.

[maidu]

While you are entitled to your opinions, you should realize they are just that and not make such idiotic statements as fact especially in terms of the motives for why folks much more informed and educated than you on a subject have reached their conclusions. Keep in mind that choosing to be ignorant may not be a disease but it can be just as dangerous.

Alcohol is the most-used, most-abused, and most harmful drug in the world and in Thailand. Because it's such a big issue, there are lot of important people who want an excuse for it (for their lack of self-discipline, self-control, etc). Such excuses lean on genetic issues (which may be debatable, but are, in my view complete kaka). Alcoholics don't only harm others to a frightening degree, they also run up costs for everyone else (hospital, insurance, safety measures, etc etc).

Any child of alcoholics is at a disadvantage, but nevertheless can choose to live a healthy life. Same with children of meat eaters who choose to be vegetarians.

'Thai at Heart' sums up in his overview; '"...but that does not in my opinion make the problem a disease." I agree. Alcoholism can be sad, destructive, sloppy, harmful, but it's not a disease according to the standard definition of the word. Calling it a disease was coined by AA in the US, and because it offered an added excuse for drunks, the mis-guided term has caught on worldwide. It's good that no drunks share a house with me, because I don't giggle with, tolerate or excuse the many stupid things they do, like most others do. I and many others take responsibility for our lives, our actions, and what we ingest. We don't make constant messes and always look, doe-eyed, for others to excuse and bail us out.

Incidentally, alcohol is also a major factor with rapes, date-rapes, unwanted pregnancies, abandoned kids, wife-beating, ......the list goes on and on. Yet you never hear of those things mentioned as 'drug-related crimes.' You only hear 'drug-related' if a different drug is involved. By saying 'alcoholism is a disease' partially excuses people who do the crimes mentioned above, and may also evoke pity (rather than scorn and disciplinary action) from observers..

Edited January 1, 2013 by maidu

[BookMan]

DUIs in The U.S. are FELONY PERIOD. I presume its the same in the U.K., Canada, Australia as well and more often than not requires the retainer of an Attorney which are not cheap, which can argue the finer points of how breathalizer the test were given by a policeman at the scene & a host of other legal finer points used in the defense of his or her client.

DUIs are not always clear cut and dry..but no way in hell are any of the judges bribed, policemen also...those in themselves are felonies as well.

Not in Australia, no power of arrest, you can refuse a breath test. There are offences of refusing tho but still no power to arrest . Charges are traffic matters and heard in the lower court and no requirement to attend court as they can be heard ex parte. Different circumstances apply if an accident accured and persons were seriously injured or killed tho.

You can be arrested these days in Australia, as per below. This is for NSW.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/geared/licence/its_so_random.html

What happens when you're tested

An RBT or mobile test operates like this:

A driver is waved or pulled over. "We tell them what we're doing," says Sergeant Macfarlane. "People like to know why they've been pulled over, obviously. We tell them what's required and then we ask for a sample of breath. If they refuse, we give them several chances. If they can't or won't supply a sample of breath then they're placed under arrest for the purposes of a breath analysis and taken to the nearest breath analysis station, which can be an RBT truck or bus, or a police station.

Some more general info:

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4279/can-a-person-refuse-a-breathalyser-test-and-other-.aspx

[chris1dna]

Tell me again how it still not a disease? Pretty simple to me that it is.

dis·ease

/diˈzēz/

Noun

A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a...

A particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.

Synonyms

illness - malady - sickness - ailment - complaint

[chooka]

DUIs in The U.S. are FELONY PERIOD. I presume its the same in the U.K., Canada, Australia as well and more often than not requires the retainer of an Attorney which are not cheap, which can argue the finer points of how breathalizer the test were given by a policeman at the scene & a host of other legal finer points used in the defense of his or her client.

DUIs are not always clear cut and dry..but no way in hell are any of the judges bribed, policemen also...those in themselves are felonies as well.

Not in Australia, no power of arrest, you can refuse a breath test. There are offences of refusing tho but still no power to arrest . Charges are traffic matters and heard in the lower court and no requirement to attend court as they can be heard ex parte. Different circumstances apply if an accident accured and persons were seriously injured or killed tho.

You can be arrested these days in Australia, as per below. This is for NSW.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/geared/licence/its_so_random.html

What happens when you're tested

An RBT or mobile test operates like this:

A driver is waved or pulled over. "We tell them what we're doing," says Sergeant Macfarlane. "People like to know why they've been pulled over, obviously. We tell them what's required and then we ask for a sample of breath. If they refuse, we give them several chances. If they can't or won't supply a sample of breath then they're placed under arrest for the purposes of a breath analysis and taken to the nearest breath analysis station, which can be an RBT truck or bus, or a police station.

Some more general info:

http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/4279/can-a-person-refuse-a-breathalyser-test-and-other-.aspx

That's NSW, in Victoria you warn them of the consequesnces of refusing a breath test/Fail to accompany for a evidentiary test if they refuse they are summonsed and it is a mandatory $2,000 fine and 2 years loss of licence (1st offence) Only power of arrest is to establish I.D or to prevent the continuation of the offence/any offence.

[chris1dna]

And after last night here in Chiang Mai I would proffer that it is epidemic here. happy new year.

[Kilgore Trout]

Has anyone ever thought to mention to them that it is the consumption of alcohol which is the problem and not the selling of it?

So, it's ok for Somchai to buy a large bottle of rum at lunchtime, consume it during the afternoon, then drive home shitfaced, but if I want to buy a can of beer at 4:30 to enjoy when I get home that is not ok...

Are there many countries out there that don't have laws in terms of when, where, who and how alcohol can be sold?

Yes, but they usually have some sort of reasoning behind the hours allowed. The 2:00 to 5:00 ban is just stupid and outside of major supermarkets, not enforced. I'd love to see some sort of study that provides (or doesn't provide) a link between the multiple bans on the sale of alcohol and drunk driving.

Where my family lives in the US; in most of the state, the sale and purchase of alcohol is strictly illegal (and heavily enforced) any time, anywhere. No exceptions.

[maidu]

Tell me again how it still not a disease? Pretty simple to me that it is.

dis·ease /diˈzēz/ Noun

A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a...

A particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.

Synonyms; illness - malady - sickness - ailment - complaint

With that sort of vague open-ended definition, a whole heck of a lot of things would qualify as diseases. Blowing a whistle in public, humming off-key in a car, spitting, eating a piece of fallen tofu off the floor, blowing your nose with or in your fingers, talking annoyingly on the phone. A bureaucrat at a Thai visa office making someone suffer more than he should, could be said to have a disease of bureaucrillin wastingtimeness boringass.