Dual Pricing

[MrHammer]

Yeah. Get over yourself.

I don't know who you are that you think you have the authority to demand people you have no relationship with how to feel. Cheers.

On the double pricing issue, I think there are sometimes justifications for it, and sometimes it seems to be applied based on superficial racial appearance, etc. (For example the same apartment a foreigner calls it's double the price for a local. That should be illegal.) Obviously, the latter is despicable; the former you'd have to look at them case by case to make any kind of objective informed judgment.

It is applied on superficial appearance due to their experience that most Europeans can't be bothered to learn the language, get a driver's license, yet seem to think they are equal to those who do. It is not a racial thing.

Acceptance is the key to happiness here and in fact wherever you are. I suggest you get over your feelings of superiority and self-importance and learn the language, sit a driving test or become a citizen - if you can't do these for whatever reason, accept it and get over it.

What a load of bs.

All these problems could be avoided by the Thais simply substituting 'Foreigners/Farang' and 'Thais' with 'Tourists' and 'Locals' respectively. No one would complain in that case. When people get offended it's because it does very much remind them of 'Blacks in the back of the bus' type discrimination, that we in the west have come to view as a particularly dark point in history.

The fact that Thais do not in general understand this and adjusts to the simple solution provided above, shows that they are in many parts an isolated, backwards, inwards looking country.

The self-delusion of the Thais thinking themselves superior to the rest of the world is grand, considering the rest of the world views Thailand as the world's brothel and/or playground. The self-image amongst Thais and that of every foreign country (other Asians included) couldn't be further apart.

That is why, such seemingly simple semantics are so important. The fact that Thais simply can't comprehend the need to choose your words wisely, shows a total lack of understanding of the modern world and thus infuriates, but mostly dissapoints those people who flirt with the idea of Thailand being more than just a place to whore around and have fun. These people, who have more and more options to work and reside abroad, will choose to settle in Hong Kong, Singapore or even China instead, since the locals there generally seem to have a basic understanding that foreigners can not all be lumped as one sub-Thai mass. The very primitive form of Thai racism like this should be an embarassement to any educated Thai. I would certainly cringe and protest if some dumbass in my country treated decent foreigners like this.

But of course, if you're 'all in' on Thailand, these kind of things are what you must accept to maintain the illusion of paradise. For others, it just adds to the view that Thailand is a place to play, drink, swim, <deleted>, but not to treat as a serious place of business.

Edited January 2, 2013 by MrHammer

[harrry]

The Thais have a right to practice racism, double/triple/etc. standards, and hypocrisy as much as any other group of people. If anything, the Thai brand of discrimination should be praised because despite being very widespread, the targets of such discrimination often STILL prefer living here and are very happy.

Lol, quite true Heng, there are plenty who like to flock onto that train.

as long as it is in the section right at the back...the one without the windows so that smells disipate qickly

[harrry]

I do not know if they still do it but I think India used to do this well with their museums. One day a week was free to all so that everyone had the ability to see the exhibits. The other days everyone paid the same. Other days were less crowded but it applied to everyone.

Edited January 3, 2013 by harrry

[durhamboy]

Many thanks for the interesting replies.

Please note that at the tower neither I, nor my Thai relatives, was asked if I had a Thai ID or Driving Licence. They simply made the decision to charge me double on the way I looked so therefore it was based on my race and was racist.

I tried to speak to the manager but he refused to come to the window and just stood there muttering something under his breath. He could have come over and explained to me or my relatives what the policy was but he didnt. So one can only assume that there was no other policy other than to charge people double if they do not look Thai!

Btw, someone criticised me for making an issue over B100 (2 quid) - that is really not the point. I would have happily paid B800 (4 x 200) if everyone paid the same.

For those of you who seem happy with this dual pricing let me ask you if you went to a bar in Thailand with a Thai friend (and no, not a go-go just an ordinary bar) would you be happy if you bought 2 Singha beers - yours cost B100 and your Thai friend's beer cost B50????? .................. no I didnt think so but that is the same principle as the Tower.

[Jingthing]

...

Please note that at the tower neither I, nor my Thai relatives, was asked if I had a Thai ID or Driving Licence. They simply made the decision to charge me double on the way I looked so therefore it was based on my race and was racist.

...

Exactly! That is the typical experience. I think most Thais in Thailand who haven't lived abroad don't get the issue with that kind of shabby treatment, and people who complain or don't love the darker sides of the Thai way are labelled bad people/troublemakers. I can assure you any Thais who lived in the west and were treated with racial bias would get it right quick. I see no rationale behind rationalizing this kind of race based behavior.

As far as the "acceptance" canard, let me put it this way. As a long term expat, I certain both accept and expect regular occurrences of racial bias to be directed at me by Thais. I don't stress, it's normal here, and it's a dark negative thing that needs to be balanced with the positive things here. That's not the same things as embracing it, applauding it, excusing it, celebrating it, lecturing other non-Thais on how they don't love being discriminated against enough.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Jingthing

[NewlyMintedThai]

Nothing to do with your race.

All to do with your nationality.

Farangs with Thai ID: Thai price. If it were "racist", all farangs would pay farang price.

Asians who can't speak Thai or otherwise pass for a Thai: Foreigner price. If it were racist, all Asians would get the Thai price.

We've gone through this a million times.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No preaching from me. Here are your choices:

1) get documents that will allow you entrance at local price. 99% of the time, a Thai drvers license will do;

2) just don't patronize places that have dual pricing;

3) go to some other country (if you can find one) where locals pay the same thing as outsiders for everything in all situations;

5) go home;

6) do something about it, like start a campaign or file a class action suit.

Bleating on expat forums achieves exactly *nothing*.

[durhamboy]

No sorry it is EVERYTHING to do with race. I was not asked my nationality - I dont look Thai (and wasnt asked for Thai ID etc) so therefore they tried to charge double by the way I LOOK. So it is racist and I feel sorry for you that you seem incapable of getting your head round that.

Yes Jingthing, you are right there are many good things in Thailand and, on balance, I quite like living here. Dual/Racist pricing is one of the negative things and, imo, needs to be highlighted in forums such as this.

[TommoPhysicist]

Nothing to do with your race.

All to do with your nationality.

Farangs with Thai ID: Thai price. If it were "racist", all farangs would pay farang price.

Asians who can't speak Thai or otherwise pass for a Thai: Foreigner price. If it were racist, all Asians would get the Thai price.

We've gone through this a million times.

And as we have already said, Asian non Thais just keep their mouths shut and pay Thai price.

I bet they still ask you to pay full price though cos you have a white face.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No sorry it is EVERYTHING to do with race. I was not asked my nationality - I dont look Thai (and wasnt asked for Thai ID etc) so therefore they tried to charge double by the way I LOOK. So it is racist and I feel sorry for you that you seem incapable of getting your head round that.

Yes Jingthing, you are right there are many good things in Thailand and, on balance, I quite like living here. Dual/Racist pricing is one of the negative things and, imo, needs to be highlighted in forums such as this.

Yeah, you look like a non-Thai. So what? If you're a local, you can prove it and get the local price. Try it next time, why don't you, instead of trying to portray yourself as a victim of racism?

PS: did you know that being a non-Thai brings just as many "racist" benefits in Thailand as itbrings detriments? All evens out.

Back to my choices: which will it be, then?

[durhamboy]

No preaching from me. Here are your choices:

1) get documents that will allow you entrance at local price. 99% of the time, a Thai drvers license will do;

2) just don't patronize places that have dual pricing;

3) go to some other country (if you can find one) where locals pay the same thing as outsiders for everything in all situations;

5) go home;

6) do something about it, like start a campaign or file a class action suit.

Bleating on expat forums achieves exactly *nothing*.

Responses to your points :-

1. Why should I have to get documents to stop Thais enforcing a racist policy?

2. I don't patronise them - that's why we didnt go in.

3. My wife is Thai so why should I go to another country?

4. Missing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. I shall as soon as my wife's visa comes through.

6. Dont be ridiculous - not even worthy of a reply.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Nothing to do with your race.

All to do with your nationality.

Farangs with Thai ID: Thai price. If it were "racist", all farangs would pay farang price.

Asians who can't speak Thai or otherwise pass for a Thai: Foreigner price. If it were racist, all Asians would get the Thai price.

We've gone through this a million times.

And as we have already said, Asian non Thais just keep their mouths shut and pay Thai price.

I bet they still ask you to pay full price though cos you have a white face.

Nope. Wrong.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No preaching from me. Here are your choices:

1) get documents that will allow you entrance at local price. 99% of the time, a Thai drvers license will do;

2) just don't patronize places that have dual pricing;

3) go to some other country (if you can find one) where locals pay the same thing as outsiders for everything in all situations;

5) go home;

6) do something about it, like start a campaign or file a class action suit.

Bleating on expat forums achieves exactly *nothing*.

Responses to your points :-

1. Why should I have to get documents to stop Thais enforcing a racist policy?

2. I don't patronise them - that's why we didnt go in.

3. My wife is Thai so why should I go to another country?

4. Missing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5. I shall as soon as my wife's visa comes through.

6. Dont be ridiculous - not even worthy of a reply.

So you admit farangs who are local get in for local rates.

Kinda stops being about skin color then, eh?

Thanks for proving my point.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Oh, and if you're planning to take your wife back to farangland, you better get ready for some REAL racism: like everyone sniggering about rent-a-wives and ping pong shows as you pass. And your half-breed lids will get a rude awakening on the school playground.

[durhamboy]

No sorry it is EVERYTHING to do with race. I was not asked my nationality - I dont look Thai (and wasnt asked for Thai ID etc) so therefore they tried to charge double by the way I LOOK. So it is racist and I feel sorry for you that you seem incapable of getting your head round that.

Yes Jingthing, you are right there are many good things in Thailand and, on balance, I quite like living here. Dual/Racist pricing is one of the negative things and, imo, needs to be highlighted in forums such as this.

Yeah, you look like a non-Thai. So what? If you're a local, you can prove it and get the local price. Try it next time, why don't you, instead of trying to portray yourself as a victim of racism?

PS: did you know that being a non-Thai brings just as many "racist" benefits in Thailand as itbrings detriments? All evens out.

Back to my choices: which will it be, then?

How the hell do you know that "all evens out"? You are just making sweeping statements for which you have no real justification instead of concentrating on the facts - the main one being that I was being charged double because of the way I look without even being given an opportunity to establish if I was "local" or not.

[NewlyMintedThai]

You had the opportunity.

You failed to take it.

Your fault.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No sorry it is EVERYTHING to do with race. I was not asked my nationality - I dont look Thai (and wasnt asked for Thai ID etc) so therefore they tried to charge double by the way I LOOK. So it is racist and I feel sorry for you that you seem incapable of getting your head round that.

Yes Jingthing, you are right there are many good things in Thailand and, on balance, I quite like living here. Dual/Racist pricing is one of the negative things and, imo, needs to be highlighted in forums such as this.

Yeah, you look like a non-Thai. So what? If you're a local, you can prove it and get the local price. Try it next time, why don't you, instead of trying to portray yourself as a victim of racism?

PS: did you know that being a non-Thai brings just as many "racist" benefits in Thailand as itbrings detriments? All evens out.

Back to my choices: which will it be, then?

How the hell do you know that "all evens out"? You are just making sweeping statements for which you have no real justification instead of concentrating on the facts - the main one being that I was being charged double because of the way I look without even being given an opportunity to establish if I was "local" or not.

Buy 2,000 worth of stuff at the Emporium using the Expat Discount Card.

Bingo: it just evened out.

[durhamboy]

NMT (or should that be PMT?) - Actually I dont see what admitting to farangs getting local rates has to do with it. I say again - I wasnt asked to produce documents so they made the decision on the way I LOOK.

Your comments about racism in Farangland are insulting and probably say more about your attitudes to Thai women than anything else. There is racism all over the world - sometimes positive mostly negative.

[Neeranam]

NMT (or should that be PMT?) - Actually I dont see what admitting to farangs getting local rates has to do with it. I say again - I wasnt asked to produce documents so they made the decision on the way I LOOK.

Your comments about racism in Farangland are insulting and probably say more about your attitudes to Thai women than anything else. There is racism all over the world - sometimes positive mostly negative.

Often Thais judge farang based on the look of the Thai people they are accompanying. Due to the sociology of Thais, it is very easy for them to do so. I don't think they judged you on your skin color but by the way you look. Maybe you were wearing a sleeveless Tshirt with Chang on it, or one of several other " this guy is a tourist" giveaways.

[isawasnake]

Yeah. Get over yourself.

I don't know who you are that you think you have the authority to demand people you have no relationship with how to feel. Cheers.

On the double pricing issue, I think there are sometimes justifications for it, and sometimes it seems to be applied based on superficial racial appearance, etc. (For example the same apartment a foreigner calls it's double the price for a local. That should be illegal.) Obviously, the latter is despicable; the former you'd have to look at them case by case to make any kind of objective informed judgment.

What about the notion that it is just a quick, and very effective (here) mind you, way to "card" people. Under that assumption, all the dual pricing based on Thai citizenship is ok. Just produce and ID and you'd get the price, if not given initially. I think people are giving Thais TOO much credit in a way, like they are going to be on the ball enough to systematically card everybody - please. Just realize they card people visually, and you are fine. To be honest, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. It gets the job done quickly and produces the desired result (ie people who are not Thai dont get the price) close to 100% of the time. It can't be done in a western country because it would not work.

Now if you are arguing we should not be charged another price, that is a different discussion, but it is definitely their decision.

Either way, feel how you want, but realize that most people "feel" with their pocketbooks.

Edited January 3, 2013 by isawasnake

[rct99q]

So your average Thai makes 275 baht a day! And you, as a westerner, are complaining that the Thais get a different rate than some yobbo from the UK making 4 pounds an hour (120 baht per hour) has to pay more than them. Sheesh.....

And yes your family agreed with you as they hate it when a farang shows anger. You embarrassed yourself but you brought great shame to your family, only they will never admit it.

[ravip]

The Thais have a right to practice racism, double/triple/etc. standards, and hypocrisy as much as any other group of people. If anything, the Thai brand of discrimination should be praised because despite being very widespread, the targets of such discrimination often STILL prefer living here and are very happy.

Honestly, why not we start a thread where we can discuss about ALL the countries and/or nationalities that DON'T practice racism AT ALL. I mean places where racism has really been wiped out 100% and the inhabitants therein literally don't know the meaning of that ugly word.

It really will help us many a people to find a paradise to live our sunset years.

[cgphuket]

I agree with all the arguments, but the fact is the 2-price system doesn't take into consideration the foreigners who live here and make crap wages. Not all foreigners have a trust fund or real estate in the UK they can fall back on. I know, I know, the Thais would just say "Go back home if you don't like it..."

[ravip]

The bitter fact is that racism, inhumanity and all the other ugly and dirty practices exists all over the world. It is hypocritical to point a finger at any particular nation or community. We feel the brunt of it ONLY when it happens to us.

I sure would like to see the day this world really PRACTICES as all human beings as equal.

Here are a few links that speak of racism and I hope they are fictitious.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2010/10/18/whos-racist-now-europes-increasing-intolerance/

http://www.pressherald.com/news/nationworld/in-focus-racism-in-america_2012-10-28.html

http://imdiversity.com/villages/global/racism-against-blacks-is-a-growing-trend-in-europe/

http://www.vice.com/read/guide-to-european-racist-leagues

http://rt.com/usa/news/majority-americans-racist-poll-378/

[rene123]

After reading this topic and many others like it I can confirm my original premise that men just like to fight and argue... over anything and everything.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I agree with all the arguments, but the fact is the 2-price system doesn't take into consideration the foreigners who live here and make crap wages.

It does in 90% or more of cases. At all but a very small number of places (the Grand Palace, for example), just show a drivers license or work permit.

[TommoPhysicist]

After reading this topic and many others like it I can confirm my original premise that men just like to fight and argue... over anything and everything.

Are you talking to me!

[NewlyMintedThai]

After reading this topic and many others like it I can confirm my original premise that men just like to fight and argue... over anything and everything.

We do not!

Hahaha.

[MrRealDeal]

In the US

Out of state people pay more for college

Locals at ski areas pay 100$ for a seasons pass and everyone else upwards of 2000

Florida residents pay half at Disneyworld

Out of state hunters pay much more to hunt than locals in every state ...... includes fishing

The point is that this type of local discounting goes on everywhere it's not exclusively Thai and their is also nothing wrong with it. It's simply based on the idea that non locals will pay up if they really want to come to your place.

The main difference or complaint is that some people seem to think if you pay taxes or live here long enough you become Thai ...... sorry but you don't.

It's only slightly different than everywhere else in the world.

[rene123]

After reading this topic and many others like it I can confirm my original premise that men just like to fight and argue... over anything and everything.

Are you talking to me!

yes, and don't get me started when I have my period.