23-Year-Old Briton Shot Dead At Countdown Party On Haad Rin Beach: Koh Phangan

[stoli]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

according to this tally its twice the amount of deaths so considering Thailand has 1/6th the population then its what 12 times higher rate of gun homicide.

Seems quite high but maybe thats what he was referencing.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Thanks for the link to the graph, but it shows Mexico with 2606 murders for the year. I realize this graph just shows gun-related deaths, but I know that during the 7 years that President Calderon was in power they had over 60,000 drug gang related murders. Surely the majority was done by firearms. I have to doubt the reliability of these numbers. They make Mexico look safer than staying at my Mom's house.

[Globeman]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Agreed that it is best to avoid conflict in a strange country, but given that the TAT (and everyone else) promotes this as the "Land of Smiles" and then when violent incidents occur, authorities often try and sweep them under the carpet, seeing them more as a PR problem than a law enforcement one - often meaning NO conviction or proper punishment (which does little to discourage such behaviour), a foreigner can easily be misled into thinking that this is a peaceful easygoing place where such incidents are rare. The country is not what it presents itself to be, and neither do the authorities do much to protect tourists from harm.

Also, there are times when conflicts are unavoidable - the young guys may have been cracking onto his girlfriend for example, leaving him in a awkward position of having to tell the guys to F-off. Too many guns, too many a**holes.

[PoorSucker]

this may be the reference RIP. best to know the laws of the land

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount # 1 South Africa: 31,918

# 2 Colombia: 21,898

# 3 Thailand: 20,032

# 4 United States: 9,369

# 5 Philippines: 7,708

# 6 Mexico: 2,606

# 7 Slovakia: 2,356

# 8 El Salvador: 1,441

# 9 Zimbabwe: 598

# 10 Peru: 442

from 2002 I believe .........

according to gunpolicy.org, there were just 3,654 total homicides (gun + other) in Thailand in 2010:

2010: 3,654⁶

No idea which stats are right / wrong mind .............

One counts homicide, the other include the southern conflict.

[davejones]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

It's quite rare for tourists to get murdered in Thailand. Read the stats. Almost all tourists have a great time and don't have any trouble at all. These incidents are very sad, but don't try to make it into something it's not. Most tourists either return or want to return because they had such a great time. Tourists get killed all over the world, and people also get killed staying at home. Those are the facts.

[Johnniey]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

Are you saying that tourist should stop coming here because of it being dangerous? I strongly disagree, Thai people are very tolerant.

[scotto]

RIP

what a shame loss of life so young

condolences to the family and freinds

[Johnniey]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

Are you kidding? Most foreign men take the women that Thai men don't want. Often dark-skinned with kids and over 30!

[sandhurstmolonski]

Terrible News RIP young man .

I can only but agree that its incredibly important not to have conflict with the locals , you just never know who is carrying a gun these days , no matter where you may be . You may recall on the previous thread we discussed ..Whats the chance of no guns deaths prior to New year ??

This young man has come for a holiday of fun , maybe with a girlfriend , yet he will return home in a Wooden box and he " was " 23 years Old , its an absolute Tradegy . Thailand has indeed become a VERY dangerous place , and the word really needs to get out .

[gl555]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

So it's ok to murder a foreign tourist ? How do you know he was arguing with anyone?

There's a Polish fella living opposite me that often annoys me with his loud music ,I think i'll go & stick him ,he doesn't know who he's <deleted> with.

It's not ok to murder anyone but I think it's pretty stupid for some tourist to come to someone else's country and think they own the place. There are a lot of dangerous people here and it's always best to be humble and keep a low profile. We do not know what really happened here but I'm pretty sure both the tourist and the youths both didn't want to walk away.

[siamsaint]

That's very sad news. The problem with Koh Pha Ngan is that there isn't enough adequate law enforcement. Thousands and thousands of wealthy young westerners and East Asians turn up to a very small area drugged up and drunk, to be honest I think it shows how safe Thailand is that we don't hear stories like this everyday from Koh Pha Ngan. I wouldn't want there to be so much police there that it became uncomfortable to relax but there should be a larger and more reliable presence from the authorities there.

[guavagirl]

From what I heard the tourist was shot by accident. The shooter was apparently fighting with another Thai and the tourist got shot by mistake.

[Kipperthai]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

So it's ok to murder a foreign tourist ? How do you know he was arguing with anyone?

There's a Polish fella living opposite me that often annoys me with his loud music ,I think i'll go & stick him ,he doesn't know who he's <deleted> with.

It's not ok to murder anyone but I think it's pretty stupid for some tourist to come to someone else's country and think they own the place. There are a lot of dangerous people here and it's always best to be humble and keep a low profile. We do not know what really happened here but I'm pretty sure both the tourist and the youths both didn't want to walk away.

You /we don't know what happened yet You are pretty sure the youths both didn't want to walk away . You are the dogs nuts Poirot .

[nev]

From what I heard the tourist was shot by accident. The shooter was apparently fighting with another Thai and the tourist got shot by mistake.

Sad if thats true mate, but i think this is what probably happened, R.I.P fellow brit.

[maidu]

.... And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

I've seen attractive young farang women acting very open and friendly with Thai guys. The farang women, for the most part, are just smiling and perhaps they're thinking that the need to be particularly friendly with the locals (that's what you're supposed to do in a strange country, isn't it?). I can see how some of the local boys can misinterpret the open mouth smiling and giggling as a 'come on' with sexual connotations. Suggestion to ladies: it's best not to be too gushingly friendly. It's not needed or expected by the locals, and can, in rare cases, be hazardous to a person's health.

[techboy]

As awful as this news is it comes as no surprise. Haad Rin is a very dangerous place and the numerous crimes go on there are generally unreported by the media as not to stop the tourist baht. I'm actually surprised that this hasn't happened before. Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection. That place is a complete dump and all the police care about is framing tourists with drugs. Amazing Thailand indeed.

Will you please elaborate on "No doubt.."

[sirchai]

Here's a link to a story that's very different to TAT's view....

http://kohphangannews.org/high-alert/koh-phangan-island-the-island-of-natural-born-killers-murders-1278.html

[gl555]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

So it's ok to murder a foreign tourist ? How do you know he was arguing with anyone?

There's a Polish fella living opposite me that often annoys me with his loud music ,I think i'll go & stick him ,he doesn't know who he's <deleted> with.

It's not ok to murder anyone but I think it's pretty stupid for some tourist to come to someone else's country and think they own the place. There are a lot of dangerous people here and it's always best to be humble and keep a low profile. We do not know what really happened here but I'm pretty sure both the tourist and the youths both didn't want to walk away.

You /we don't know what happened yet You are pretty sure the youths both didn't want to walk away . You are the dogs nuts Poirot .

We've seen and we've read about this before. It's always some stupid argument and both sides don't back down. Then one pulls a gun or knife. Or one side backs down and comes back with a gun. All I'm saying is be discrete, be humble and walk away when there's trouble and you're in some other country, especially a third world one. Even if they don't have a gun, the locals will always side each other over the white guy.

Edited January 1, 2013 by gl555

[Pulle]

Why? Shooting with a gun seems easyser these days than having a good conversation! RIP!

[tezzainthailand]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

This is absolutely true. Many young Thai men have the emotional development of 13 year old girls. Combine that with absolutely no self esteem, no reason, and no common sense, and you have a potentially explosive situation. They are extremely sensitive, and easily offended. Best to ignore them like a fly on the wall. They do not want to have anything to do with us, unless they think they can get some cash out of us anyway. And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

I have to agree with the above statement about thai men. I was recently at a party with all thai folk and the 21 yr olds cant handle their drink. One of the guys said something and then theres a brawl. Then someone else said something and another fight started out. I was the only farang there and amazed at the lack of emotional development of these guys. Only one of the guys (who was not fighting) came up to me and said 'sorry you had to see this'...

RIP to the young POM killed on Had Rin. I was there a year ago arriving at 3am on the full moon party night relatively sober and found there were a lot of trouble making backpackers there. One tried to steal my thongs which were placed right in front of me. An hour later I watched a brawl between a few backpacker guys- 2 were causing trouble. I would not be surprised if the English guy caused the initial problem against the Thai. Many young farang backpackers have no idea about thai culture and what is offensive.

One vivid memory of my fist visit to Samui many years ago was of 5 or 6 loud, beefy and boorish continental Europeans marching down Soi Mango ready to occupy and stake their claim to the place...20 minutes later the sight of these oafs retreating faster than Usain Bolt with a dozen big stick wielding Thai males in pursuit was a sight to behold. Cultural respect goes a long way to avoid getting a beating or a bullet but so many tourists just don't get it.

[webfact]

British man shot dead at Thai New Year beach party

BANGKOK, Jan 1, 2013 (AFP) - A 22-year-old British tourist was shot dead as he danced at a New Year party on one of Thailand's most famous islands after a fight between rival Thai gangs erupted on the beach, police said on Tuesday.

The holidaymaker was killed when a Thai man opened fire at a bar on the island of Koh Phangan in southern Thailand in the early hours of the morning.

"He was shot in the side while he was dancing on the beach," local policeman Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Noorod told AFP, adding the area had been packed with revellers during the evening's New Year celebrations.

Police believe the gunman was aiming at members of a rival gang.

Phangan is a resort island in the Gulf of Thailand neighbouring Koh Samui and draws thousands of backpackers to its famous full moon parties.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-01-01

[theajarn]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

If your statistics are correct, then that just makes me feel SO much better that I'm moving the family back to the USA. I'm going to look up the info further, thanks!

[Jim walker]

RIP to Stephen David Ashton’s friends and family what a terrible tragedy to start the new year on .

Regardless of all the different statistics produced or manipulated people who want a safe and secure holiday should not come to Thailand because it is neither safe nor secure, and has no police force to depend on. They should just go to Spain or some nice quiet European country for a holiday and they will have a good chance of going home in one piece, and leave the third world countries to us ex pats that know their way about and understand these places and the people.

[chrisinth]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

I could pretty much guarantee it, British national shot dead on holiday in Thailand......................

[tezzainthailand]

One source quotes Thailand as having 40 deaths by gun per 100,000 people..if so that is 4 times the U.S rate...jealousies, rivalries, saving face and political assassinations some of the reasons...however has anyone heard of any massacres in Thailand? (along the lines of Columbine, Aurora and Newtown)

One source quotes Thailand as having 40 deaths by gun per 100,000 people..if so that is 4 times the U.S rate...jealousies, rivalries, saving face and political assassinations some of the reasons...however has anyone heard of any massacres in Thailand? (along the lines of Columbine, Aurora and Newtown)

How about the war on drugs and the massacre in the South, does Tak Bai ring a bell?

True, but that is a state sponsored massacre (not unlike Israel on Palestine). But have you heard of a loneThai civilian mowing down a dozen or more innocent bystanders by automatic weapon and with no motive?

[theajarn]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

according to this tally its twice the amount of deaths so considering Thailand has 1/6th the population then its what 12 times higher rate of gun homicide.

Seems quite high but maybe thats what he was referencing.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Funny, the wikipedia link (crime+firearms by country) doesn't list Thailand at all...

can someone say COVERUP??

[Kananga]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

Sure, I have some 'stats' that will no doubt be debated. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms which shows that Thailand is the clear number 1 when it comes to the percentage of murders by firearm, and this http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_fir_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop which shows the homicide rate by firearm per capita. Here's the biggie http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

[manutoo]

nationmaster.com's stats are wrong, it has been discussed & explained why in this thread and this post especially :

[Kananga]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

I think his facts are all up the <deleted>, but then who worries about accuracy anyway.....

See for yourself. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms They're not my facts, they're THE FACTS.

Let me know if you need to borrow a big bag of sand to stick your head in.

[Mungo85]

Well, I hope this gets well publicised in the UK. I think Thailand as a tourism destination needs some serious re-evaluation.

I could pretty much guarantee it, British national shot dead on holiday in Thailand......................

It will make the BBC (& others) news in UK. However, depending on what really happened (there's only the usual wild speculation & assumption at the moment) will determine how it's reported.

[simple1]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

This is absolutely true. Many young Thai men have the emotional development of 13 year old girls. Combine that with absolutely no self esteem, no reason, and no common sense, and you have a potentially explosive situation. They are extremely sensitive, and easily offended. Best to ignore them like a fly on the wall. They do not want to have anything to do with us, unless they think they can get some cash out of us anyway. And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

I have to agree with the above statement about thai men. I was recently at a party with all thai folk and the 21 yr olds cant handle their drink. One of the guys said something and then theres a brawl. Then someone else said something and another fight started out. I was the only farang there and amazed at the lack of emotional development of these guys. Only one of the guys (who was not fighting) came up to me and said 'sorry you had to see this'...

RIP to the young POM killed on Had Rin. I was there a year ago arriving at 3am on the full moon party night relatively sober and found there were a lot of trouble making backpackers there. One tried to steal my thongs which were placed right in front of me. An hour later I watched a brawl between a few backpacker guys- 2 were causing trouble. I would not be surprised if the English guy caused the initial problem against the Thai. Many young farang backpackers have no idea about thai culture and what is offensive.

Many also have no idea that a "fight" in Thailand means half the male population joins in to kick you in the head, long after you've gone down. No Marquess of Queensbury rules in this place.

let me know which country has Marquess of Queensbury rules for street/bar fights.