U S House Approves ' Fiscal Cliff' Deal

[webfact]

House approves 'fiscal cliff' deal

WASHINGTON: -- After Republicans dropped their demands for additional spending cuts the House approved legislation meant to avert the ‘fiscal cliff’.

Earlier, the House Republicans expressed their opposition to the measure to avert the ‘fiscal cliff’ in its current form.

GOP leaders were considering an amendment that would add some $330 million in government spending cuts besides the cuts proposed by the bill. But after they failed to get enough votes to pass such an amendment Republicans decided to proceed with a vote on the measure as it stood.

Meanwhile, Democratic leaders were pressing house speaker John Boehner to proceed with the vote on the Senate approved compromise legislation. Following a private meeting between Vice President Joe Biden and House Democrats on Tuesday, minority leader Nancy Pelosi said the Democrats expected Boehner to allow the House to vote on the deal, which had been approved by Senate overnight on New Year's Eve.

Source: http://english.ruvr....cal-cliff-deal/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2013-01-02

[cloudhopper]

EXACTLY as I predicted on the other thread. Republicans completely folded and the CBO calculates that this legislation will add 4 TRILLION dollars to the national debt over the next ten years. Obanma's comment - more work remains to be done to reduce the deficit. What a sad joke.

[Jingthing]

It's not a solution to the larger problems but at least for NOW they avoided the damaging cliff which potentially could have sparked a new recession with global consequences.

[KKvampire]

Let's be clear 151 Republicans were for tax rises for all. They are of course in favor of Tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations,temporary tax cuts from 2001-3 under Bush, But they like to hide behind the tag of "no government spending" and effectively they dont want ANY government,while the filthy rich (their supporters) pay tax rates of less than 15% and massive tax offshore avoidance schemes and IRS loopholes they can find.

Edited January 2, 2013 by KKvampire

[rotary]

ÙS Govt........Pay attention. §top spending money like a drunken sailor on walking street. Leave taxes along and stop giving money away that you do not have.

A public service announcement from the world

[samran]

They should have gone over the cliff.

You can't run a Rolls Royce economy on a VW Combi budget.

The US came out of previous recessions with higher tax rates and lower spending with little problem. It wouldn't have been a problem this time either.

[KKvampire]

They should have gone over the cliff.

You can't run a Rolls Royce economy on a VW Combi budget.

The US came out of previous recessions with higher tax rates and lower spending with little problem. It wouldn't have been a problem this time either.

The Republican mentality with their voodoo economics believe that by simply cutting taxes on high income earners and corporations they will spend and invest more in the USA and it will "trickle down" to the middle and working class, But guess what , It hasn't and doesnt work!!! Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time.

Edited January 2, 2013 by KKvampire

[thaibeachlovers]

EXACTLY as I predicted on the other thread. Republicans completely folded and the CBO calculates that this legislation will add 4 TRILLION dollars to the national debt over the next ten years. Obanma's comment - more work remains to be done to reduce the deficit. What a sad joke.

<Republicans completely folded>

That must have been on the la la land tv channel. The great majority of Republicans in Congress voted against passing the bill as it stood. In fact, it almost didn't reach the required number of votes till the last few minutes.

IMO Boehner has been seriously weakened by the opposition in the GOP, as he voted for it, and depending on how many Tea Party members there are after the new Congress is sworn in, he might not be re elected.

[thaibeachlovers]

Let's be clear 151 Republicans were for tax rises for all. They are of course in favor of Tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations,temporary tax cuts from 2001-3 under Bush, But they like to hide behind the tag of "no government spending" and effectively they dont want ANY government,while the filthy rich (their supporters) pay tax rates of less than 15% and massive tax offshore avoidance schemes and IRS loopholes they can find.

<Let's be clear 151 Republicans were for tax rises for all>

Please pay attention. They were against raising taxes at all, and voted against the bill as it stood, not FOR tax rises, even though that would have been the effect. It's called standing up for your principles.

Which is why there should have been tax and loophole reform during the past 4 years, but Harry Reid has blocked every attempt by the Congress to do so.

[thaibeachlovers]

They should have gone over the cliff.

You can't run a Rolls Royce economy on a VW Combi budget.

The US came out of previous recessions with higher tax rates and lower spending with little problem. It wouldn't have been a problem this time either.

The Republican mentality with their voodoo economics believe that by simply cutting taxes on high income earners and corporations they will spend and invest more in the USA and it will "trickle down" to the middle and working class, But guess what , It hasn't and doesnt work!!! Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time.

<Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time>

Well that's been down to Obama for the past 4 years. He could have pulled out if he wanted to.

[thaibeachlovers]

They should have gone over the cliff.

You can't run a Rolls Royce economy on a VW Combi budget.

The US came out of previous recessions with higher tax rates and lower spending with little problem. It wouldn't have been a problem this time either.

I agree with you, but probably not for the same reason.

[KKvampire]

They should have gone over the cliff.

You can't run a Rolls Royce economy on a VW Combi budget.

The US came out of previous recessions with higher tax rates and lower spending with little problem. It wouldn't have been a problem this time either.

The Republican mentality with their voodoo economics believe that by simply cutting taxes on high income earners and corporations they will spend and invest more in the USA and it will "trickle down" to the middle and working class, But guess what , It hasn't and doesnt work!!! Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time.

<Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time>

Well that's been down to Obama for the past 4 years. He could have pulled out if he wanted to.

Jeez, Some are out of touch, Obama got the US out of Iraq and soon Afghanistan, and its always the same Republicans who want to cut all government spending except guess what?...not Military. Hypocrites

[Steely Dan]

It's not a solution to the larger problems but at least for NOW they avoided the damaging cliff which potentially could have sparked a new recession with global consequences.

The so called Fiscal cliff is actually a few percentage points added to people's tax bills. That this should be referred to in such a hyperbolic manner shows starkly what a sick economy the U.S actually is, just as a common cold presents no danger to someone young and healthy but could be fatal to a geriatric with sundry medical issues.

[mania]

Jeez, Some are out of touch, Obama got the US out of Iraq and soon Afghanistan,

Actually those that think removing US troops from Iraq is equal to the US Taxes still not funding great expense there are the ones out of touch.

Look up privatizing the war on terror & read up a bit.

[Nigel1500]

The skidroad to hell begins with a very gentle downhill slide.

[Spoonman]

[gatorsoft]

Let's be clear 151 Republicans were for tax rises for all. They are of course in favor of Tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations,temporary tax cuts from 2001-3 under Bush, But they like to hide behind the tag of "no government spending" and effectively they dont want ANY government,while the filthy rich (their supporters) pay tax rates of less than 15% and massive tax offshore avoidance schemes and IRS loopholes they can find.

Let's be clear: stating your opinion as fact doesn't make it so.

[Exsexyman]

It's not a solution to the larger problems but at least for NOW they avoided the damaging cliff which potentially could have sparked a new recession with global consequences.

The so called Fiscal cliff is actually a few percentage points added to people's tax bills. That this should be referred to in such a hyperbolic manner shows starkly what a sick economy the U.S actually is, just as a common cold presents no danger to someone young and healthy but could be fatal to a geriatric with sundry medical issues.

Not fatal to a geriatric kid i hope, i would miss reading his posts!

[samran]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

[mania]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

1- Debt to GDP as a gauge is meaningless because

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + GOVERNMENT SPENDING + exports - imports

Obvious problem bolded

Spending versus revenues is all that matters when looking at debt as always

2- This logic is actually sanity itself. Folks who cannot afford nor qualify for a mortgage by showing existing repay-ability should not be given one.

Same goes for a business requiring a business loan that does not have a suitable business plan.

If Governments were made to live/operate withing their means same as normal people this mess would not be where it is today.

Folks have had legitimate mortgages & business loans long before this current mess.

They are not the problem

Edited January 3, 2013 by mania

[KKvampire]

Let's be clear 151 Republicans were for tax rises for all. They are of course in favor of Tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations,temporary tax cuts from 2001-3 under Bush, But they like to hide behind the tag of "no government spending" and effectively they dont want ANY government,while the filthy rich (their supporters) pay tax rates of less than 15% and massive tax offshore avoidance schemes and IRS loopholes they can find.

Let's be clear: stating your opinion as fact doesn't make it so.

But you hate my facts dont you?

[samran]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

1- Debt to GDP as a gauge is meaningless because

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + GOVERNMENT SPENDING + exports - imports

Obvious problem bolded

Spending versus revenues is all that matters when looking at debt as always

2- This logic is actually sanity itself. Folks who cannot afford nor qualify for a mortgage by showing existing repay-ability should not be given one.

Same goes for a business requiring a business loan that does not have a suitable business plan.

If Governments were made to live/operate withing their means same as normal people this mess would not be where it is today.

No, the ability to repay debt is what matters, as well as the likely NPV of the project which is undertaken as a result of that debt.

If the government was looking shakey, then no one would buy the bonds that the government issues.

[mania]

No, the ability to repay debt is what matters, as well as the likely NPV of the project which is undertaken as a result of that debt.

If the government was looking shakey, then no one would buy the bonds that the government issues.

Yes that is what I said...

Spending versus revenues is all that matters when looking at debt as always

Also as I said regarding NPV "a suitable business plan."

I do not know about the EU but none is really buying bonds in the US including the main countries that use too.

At least not to the tune that is needed to be sold.

So....Enter the FED Reserve who is now buying their own IOU's

With more of the paper that required them to sell bonds in the first place

This will not end well.

Edited January 3, 2013 by mania

[Ulysses G.]

Let's be clear 151 Republicans were for tax rises for all. They are of course in favor of Tax cuts for the wealthiest and corporations,temporary tax cuts from 2001-3 under Bush, But they like to hide behind the tag of "no government spending" and effectively they dont want ANY government,while the filthy rich (their supporters) pay tax rates of less than 15% and massive tax offshore avoidance schemes and IRS loopholes they can find.

Let's be clear: stating your opinion as fact doesn't make it so.

But you hate my facts dont you?

He might not hate them if they were actually facts.

[Scott]

Personal arguments have been deleted. Please stay on the topic of the thread.

[geriatrickid]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

Not necessarily. Only those with a valid business plan and the ability to service the debt and repay the borrowing would be allowed to borrow.

The ability of US taxpayers to deduct mortgage payments sums it up for me. People are encouraged to go into debt. Something very wrong with that.

[mania]

Not necessarily. Only those with a valid business plan and the ability to service the debt and repay the borrowing would be allowed to borrow.

The ability of US taxpayers to deduct mortgage payments sums it up for me. People are encouraged to go into debt. Something very wrong with that.

While I agree only those with a valid plan or those who show repay-ability should be given loans

It is not true the US tax payer deducts mortgage payments

They are allowed to subtract mortgage interest per year from earned income.

Yes those with a high 30 year mortgage are mainly paying interest initially during term of loan.

But some of each payment even initially is still principal payment.

Also it is a bit misleading to say they deduct payments.

They may only deduct again from earned income if any to reduce their adjusted gross income.

Actually for many who do have jobs & want the American dream of owning their home.

I think it is a rather nice benefit that is of some small help to normal folks for a change.

It is not like the big boys don't get all kinds of deductions.

Also most "normal" young families could never buy a home any other way than with a mortgage

So it is not really encouraging them to go into debt & of all debts possible to US citizens

a mortgage on a primary residence could be called the only "good" debt for lack of a better description.

As it is "usually" a appreciating asset over the years

It is the freely given credit for frivolous spending ( depreciating assets ) that is really the bad debt & encouraging people to

take it home today & pay later. When I was young if folks wanted toys they either saved up first or even used

a stores lay away plan. Where they paid what they could when they could & when paid in full they then could take the

toy home.

The real encouragement to go into debt is all the toys with easy credit available &

all its advertising of you can ride out today on this or that

no money down, no credit check etc etc etc

At the end of the day I agree debt free is true freedom. Glad to say I am able to live that way.

But I understand young families wanting a home of their own & know they can never save the 1,2,3 hundred thousand to

buy it outright.

Edited January 3, 2013 by mania

[thaibeachlovers]

While I agree the US and the EU have a large and unsustainable debt to GDP ratio, if you used this logic no one would ever take out a mortgage, business loan or debt funding for transactions.

Not necessarily. Only those with a valid business plan and the ability to service the debt and repay the borrowing would be allowed to borrow.

The ability of US taxpayers to deduct mortgage payments sums it up for me. People are encouraged to go into debt. Something very wrong with that.

Very wrong indeed, but that's how they got into the mess in the first place.

[thaibeachlovers]

No, the ability to repay debt is what matters, as well as the likely NPV of the project which is undertaken as a result of that debt.

If the government was looking shakey, then no one would buy the bonds that the government issues.

Yes that is what I said...

Spending versus revenues is all that matters when looking at debt as always

Also as I said regarding NPV "a suitable business plan."

I do not know about the EU but none is really buying bonds in the US including the main countries that use too.

At least not to the tune that is needed to be sold.

So....Enter the FED Reserve who is now buying their own IOU's

With more of the paper that required them to sell bonds in the first place

This will not end well.

Hyperinflation is on the way. Think Germany post WW1.

[thaibeachlovers]

They should have gone over the cliff.

You can't run a Rolls Royce economy on a VW Combi budget.

The US came out of previous recessions with higher tax rates and lower spending with little problem. It wouldn't have been a problem this time either.

The Republican mentality with their voodoo economics believe that by simply cutting taxes on high income earners and corporations they will spend and invest more in the USA and it will "trickle down" to the middle and working class, But guess what , It hasn't and doesnt work!!! Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time.

<Especially when you finance two wars on the credit card at the same time>

Well that's been down to Obama for the past 4 years. He could have pulled out if he wanted to.

Jeez, Some are out of touch, Obama got the US out of Iraq and soon Afghanistan, and its always the same Republicans who want to cut all government spending except guess what?...not Military. Hypocrites

Had Obama wanted to, he could have been out of Iraq and Afghanistan by 2010.

Agreed that not wanting to cut the waste out of the military is hypocrytical.