lopburi3 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Several needless flame posts of no value removed. Thanks to the poster for the follow-up and explanation of the current situation and valuable information. Hope all works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrisoPee Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Interesting you took the gamble to do it.. Spend a lot of money but in the end made it back in the Land of Smiles. Good for you as you seem to be someone who not will be so stupid the second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinc525otm Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Hello, For sure the mistake that I did, I will not do it again. I really wanted to try what I saw on Internet, so it's a stupid stupid thing. Now what I can tell you is that I am helping a school in Thailand, I did many actions in Bangkok with volonteers near the Pan-fa bridge, and that many people are waiting for me. They will leave without me but it would be very nice if I can continue my help. I will try to make some letter to ask for my clearance. May I ask here if someone leaves near LadPrao if someone can visit the Police station of LadPrao (chockchai 4), to ask for a phone number there so I can call and request my paper? Or this someone may directly ask for a copy of the paper. My story appened on November 11 afternoon. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disagree Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) that's a lot of money, but in the end it seems there is a way open for you. i just don't understand why you paid so much money to do it over france again. why not make a flight round trip through singapore, malaysia, laos, cambodia etc? i also don't understand people attacking you. apparently doing a stupid mistake ( or even being a petty thief ) is the biggest crime in their minds. it is obvious that there are ways to return, and you are showing from experience what it takes. it's quite a hardcore story to be honest for a crime about a case regarding a few hundred(?) bath that could've been prevented maybe paying a few thousand baht on spot. Edited January 26, 2013 by disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hi there, I just tried yesterday to go back in Thailand using the normal door, the airport. I came at the immigration counters, the guy scanned my passport, and he told me there is a lock that needs to be unlocked by his supervisor... vinc525otm, what puzzles me is that you apparently never had that red stamp in your passport translated to you, not by your Thai friend in France, nor by your Thai friend in Thailand, nor did you scan and post it here as somebody suggested very early in this thread. The way I understand it, whenever a foreigner gets blacklisted this is noted in his passport, on the same page where the immigration exit stamp is, and in addition the foreigner gets a document stating the reason for the blacklisting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Interesting you took the gamble to do it.. Spend a lot of money but in the end made it back in the Land of Smiles. Good for you as you seem to be someone who not will be so stupid the second time. The way I read vinc525otm's last post he only made it as far as the immigration counter in Thailand, was refused entry and flew back to France, where he presumably is at this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I am curious to know also, if the OP has ever visited Vietnam or Cambodia? Or even Burma for that matter. I don't think it's the end of the world. If he can't come back to Thailand and as a Frenchman if he hasn't been to Vietnam or Cambodia before he may enjoy the experience more than he would expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 A lot of people do not really know the answers. But, my friend served time in Pathum Thani Khlong 6 Jail, he also had no passport therefore no visa, illegally in Thailand. He was sent in front of the judge, am not sure if he had another thing against his name, but he ended up in the above mentioned jail. The Embassy and his parents got him out after a while and he was given a temporary passport and went back to the UK, he was also arrested in the UK upon arrival and served a short time there (another story), after serving time in the UK and doing a job for a few months, he returned to Thailand, and started teaching again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 beano2274, your friend obviously was not blacklisted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinc525otm Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Hi there, Yeah, I am sorry for this red stamp, but I really was in the mind of forgetting this story when I came back in end of November. I wanted to make a new passport not to see the red stamp anymore and also because my old passport had only 1 free page left. For new passport procedure, the gouvernement here requests the old passport back. So I gave it back and was very happy to get a new passport. You are right, I stood about 4 hours at the airport before the immigration between the first office to the second office. I arrived at 2.00pm and I had a fly back at 7.00pm. It's no problem because we have the money. Just a bit tired. Now I am more and more sure that getting the report at the police station will be good for me, but I need someone to get it for me. The police station is the one at LadPrao, near LadPrao 51. I have Thai friends there that should be able to do it, if not too busy (they are people from office). V. Edited January 27, 2013 by vinc525otm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanson Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hi there, Yeah, I am sorry for this red stamp, but I really was in the mind of forgetting this story when I came back in end of November. I wanted to make a new passport not to see the red stamp anymore and also because my old passport had only 1 free page left. For new passport procedure, the gouvernement here requests the old passport back. So I gave it back and was very happy to get a new passport. You are right, I stood about 4 hours at the airport before the immigration between the first office to the second office. I arrived at 2.00pm and I had a fly back at 7.00pm. It's no problem because we have the money. Just a bit tired. Now I am more and more sure that getting the report at the police station will be good for me, but I need someone to get it for me. The police station is the one at LadPrao, near LadPrao 51. I have Thai friends there that should be able to do it, if not too busy (they are people from office). V. Ah you sound like a laugh! What you need is a Certificate of Finalization of your case from the courthouse at which you had to appear (did you?). Can be applied for and received in around an hour or so. If it was only the police giving you the bum's rush to IDC, good luck with them trying to find it. Good luck and ignore the usual holier than thou's on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 ...What you need is a Certificate of Finalization of your case from the courthouse at which you had to appear (did you?)... I doubt very much that this, by itself, would be enough. He needs to get himself off the blacklist. For this, he may need a suitable lawyer or other person who knows his way about in such matters. It's a pity that he has no longer access to his old passport for a copy of that stamp in Thai, but from the answer he got when he phoned the IDC it seems clear that he is on the blacklist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beano2274 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 beano2274, your friend obviously was not blacklisted. What people are saying in here is that if you served time in a Thai Jail you will have problems coming back, but my mates story proves otherwise. And just to add he was accused by his Ex GF of physical violence in her hometown of Chiangmai, and the police came looking for him, he got out of there and back to BKK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanson Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) ...What you need is a Certificate of Finalization of your case from the courthouse at which you had to appear (did you?)... I doubt very much that this, by itself, would be enough. He needs to get himself off the blacklist. For this, he may need a suitable lawyer or other person who knows his way about in such matters. It's a pity that he has no longer access to his old passport for a copy of that stamp in Thai, but from the answer he got when he phoned the IDC it seems clear that he is on the blacklist. Maestro, I can tell you from personal experience that when found to have been blacklisted (the long and bizarre details of which I will not bore you with), I went to the local provincial court to get this certificate, my lawyer having sent it off with a bunch of other papers to God knows where in an unrelated case with me as plaintiff. This was duly produced to Immigration and my visa was renewed. Edited January 28, 2013 by evanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 beano2274, your friend obviously was not blacklisted. What people are saying in here is that if you served time in a Thai Jail you will have problems coming back, but my mates story proves otherwise. And just to add he was accused by his Ex GF of physical violence in her hometown of Chiangmai, and the police came looking for him, he got out of there and back to BKK. Goodness me. Jail time in both countries, allegations of woman beating and fleeing the local cops but now back teaching. Probably a decent bloke after all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Blacklisting also depends on the offence. Not every offence leads to blacklisting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Maestro, I can tell you from personal experience that when found to have been blacklisted (the long and bizarre details of which I will not bore you with), I went to the local provincial court to get this certificate, my lawyer having sent it off with a bunch of other papers to God knows where in an unrelated case with me as plaintiff. This was duly produced to Immigration and my visa was renewed. Your case is entirely different from that of the OP and thus off topic here. He was refused entry into Thailand at Bangkok airport after being deported and blacklisted. You had a court case, judging from your account you were neither deported nor blacklisted, and obtained apparently a new extension of stay, not a visa, from your local immigration office. If you were indeed blacklisted and made to leave Thailand I would very much like to have a copy of your blacklist stamp and it would confirm that it is immigration that does the blacklisting and has the authority to remove a foreigner from the blacklist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think immigration does handle the black listing (persona non grata) because they are the ones that do the deportation and hold people prior to deportation. There is even a fee listed on immigration website for an appeal. Appeal in Reference to Section 22 (persona non grata) each person 1,900 baht Section 22 refers to immigration act. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 That leaves the question if an immigration officer of a certain rank at Bangkok airport has the authority to lift the blacklisting right there on the spot, at his discretion or, as intimated to the OP on his last attempt to enter Thailand, on the basis of certain documents produced by the traveller, which may perhaps be recorded in the immigration database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The immigration act mentiones several persons in several instances who are competant in cases of appeal: - the minister in case of section 22 ( refers to section 12: persons forbidden to enter Thailand), but not when no passport or other papers, or if a person is deemed a risk to the security, welfare, morals, etc of Thailand. In these cases there is no appeal. - the immigration commission in the case of section 36 (permission to stay revoked) So the reason of the blacklisting depends who is competant. I suspect that in cases of section 12, the immigration police has guidleines to determine if someone may enter or not and the officer has some descretion here.. The court papers were probably needed to determine the nature of the offense, which determines if one can re-enter or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanillalatte Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Not really as if you fail to enter the other country you may face arrest for illegal entry (no exit stamp from a second country) at a land border and face deportation. At land crossings they do check for exit stamps. They will see their own exit stamps,and he will come back because he ....forget toothbrush in his last hotel,or because he was refused entry into Thailand,nothing illegal about this situation.Many countries - do not stamp passports at all. I would try to land in BKK with booked ticket to next country,like Laos,Cambo or Malaysia.If Thailand refuse entry - then he will spend his holiday there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 If you come back without entry another country at a land border you are in trouble, especially when you are denied entry into the other country. If this happens when you leave Thailand and try for instance enter Laos and are denied entry you need to go back to Thailand. Thai immigration has the policy that in that case you arrested and brought to the immigration jail to be deported. For that you yourself have to buy a ticket to your home country. You remain in custody till your plane leaves, even if it takes months to get the ticket because you don't have the money. Other neigbouring countries have similair policies. At airborders exit stamps are not checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Not really as if you fail to enter the other country you may face arrest for illegal entry (no exit stamp from a second country) at a land border and face deportation. At land crossings they do check for exit stamps. They will see their own exit stamps,and he will come back because he ....forget toothbrush in his last hotel,or because he was refused entry into Thailand,nothing illegal about this situation.Many countries - do not stamp passports at all. I would try to land in BKK with booked ticket to next country,like Laos,Cambo or Malaysia.If Thailand refuse entry - then he will spend his holiday there. I believe I am correct in saying refused entry would be return to last port of departure or home country. You would not be permitted onward travel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 ... I believe I am correct in saying refused entry would be return to last port of departure or home country. You would not be permitted onward travel That's what they did with Gary Glitter. He was released from Vietnam jail, hovered in transit at BKK, was denied in an attempt to travel to a third country (I recall Cambodia rebuffed him?) and eventually went back to blighty to face the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I have deleted an off-topic post and the replies to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinc525otm Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 (edited) Hi there, Ok. Today I am a bit worrying, as my friends are taking huge time to get me this court paper. I do have reasons to come back because I was helping a school there near Chiang Mai, and they are asking about me every day. I do really think my stupid mistake is not a big crime, the problem for them I believe is that my crime at BIGC with barcodes may mean that I understood a trick and because of this I may be capable of doing much more tricks. My intentions are really not to do any more mistake, as the pain as been more than enough to understand that I must have a very simple life in Thailand and I must limit myself to what is said. This I did understand it. Not doing any mistake I also understand it. Being scared of jail there I am, very much. Today my parents and I and friends are in this wish to get me unblacklisted, but all written everywhere seems to tell us that once you are blacklisted, it's for ever. So, my questions are : Let's supposed I am blacklisted and it is forever, and let's say that after trying procedure we cannot get me cleared. In this case (that I think is the most realistic), may I be able to get into Thailand using the Laos border Vientiane, just to go back to my school, say goodbye, give some money, take my staff back, papers like driving licence and close my room, so I mean stay there 10 days, and then go back to France and forget about this country for ever as they want? Note: if we believe I am accepted in Laos and I am able to travel there without any issue, in Laos. What do you think? Thank you. V. Edited February 4, 2013 by vinc525otm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinc525otm Posted February 4, 2013 Author Share Posted February 4, 2013 You could get police clearance from Thailand http://pcscenter.sb....p?downloadkey=4 Do you think it may be a good idea to follow this advice? I have printed the PDF file and I am reading it now. Thanks again. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Most Thai nationals need to indicate compelling or overwhelming evidence of why they need to return to Thailand in order to get a visa for another country. Unfortunately, there's nothing compelling or overwhelming in the OP's stated reasons to return to LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 There is an appeal process written in the immigration act that can be initiated at immigration here. There is not any information on immigration website other than a fee of 1900 baht. See section 22 of immigration act. Download: http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf I think you should hire a Thai lawyer to do the appeal before you bother traveling here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinc525otm Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 I was really not in the mind to ask a lawyer for help, but my other actions are too slow so I will start thinking about a lawyer. I will do some carefull research on the forum to find a good one. Thank you for your advices. V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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