Cars Bring Bangkok To Standstill

[chooka]

In a year's time all these rebated cars will be causing gridlock in the second hand car yards along with loss of face!

I just wonder how many bought these cars on finance and once the 100k rebate runs out won't be able to make the payments

I guess as a few have mentioned already, the answer will be A LOT.

[chiangmaikelly]

In a year's time all these rebated cars will be causing gridlock in the second hand car yards along with loss of face!

I just wonder how many bought these cars on finance and once the 100k rebate runs out won't be able to make the payments

I guess as a few have mentioned already, the answer will be A LOT.

Please provide a link for someone with some knowledge of the Thai economy that will validate your thought.

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

The interesting thing is that the dealers don't actually ask if people have a license. To get a gun you need plenty of licenses, but a car none. I wonder what Toyota or Honda head office would make of a press story that they are selling cars to people without licenses and thus void insurance.

Could that be because a driving licence is not required to buy a car? Possession of a firearms licence is necessary to buy a gun.

Well, one would suggest, that buying a car, unless you are going to move it out of the showroom on a trailer, would necessitate that the seller checks that you are legally entitled to drive one. why don't they sell cars to 14 year olds? Can a 14 year old buy a car with cash?

I would say that the car dealers/manufacturers should mandate that it is their social responsiblity to check that the person signing for ownership of the car is legally permitted to drive it. Now that might not do much for car sales, but I tell you, it would probably do wonders for the accident and death statistics, would create a roaring trade at the licensing office, and at least might encourage a few people to get a few lessons.

If someone "gives" me a gun I still need a license to have it in my possession in Thailand.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[chainarong]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

Traffic indicators use em too

[chooka]

In a year's time all these rebated cars will be causing gridlock in the second hand car yards along with loss of face!

I just wonder how many bought these cars on finance and once the 100k rebate runs out won't be able to make the payments

I guess as a few have mentioned already, the answer will be A LOT.

Please provide a link for someone with some knowledge of the Thai economy that will validate your thought.

Why should I validate a guess? As I said; "I guess"

a. To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.

b. To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.

Cheers my friend.

[khunken]

As far as government figures on it's debt go - unbelievable.

One of the usual 'but.. Abhisit' diversionists mentioned debt during his time being higher. Yes, but this included the B1.14Tn FIDF debt which has been now swept under the carpet. It's included in the 'white lie' basket as is Kittirat's recent comment that the government hasn't got a subsidy mindset.

Edited January 10, 2013 by khunken

[chiangmaikelly]

I just wonder how many bought these cars on finance and once the 100k rebate runs out won't be able to make the payments

I guess as a few have mentioned already, the answer will be A LOT.

Please provide a link for someone with some knowledge of the Thai economy that will validate your thought.

Why should I validate a guess? As I said; "I guess"

a. To predict (a result or an event) without sufficient information.

b. To assume, presume, or assert (a fact) without sufficient information.

Cheers my friend.

Two schools of thought as I see it. Those who think it is a bad idea but have not a clue why and have minimal advanced education and none in any form of formal economics and those who think it is a good idea who have PhD's in economics and many years of experience in Asian economics. The second I would classify a guess as an informed opinion and the first I would classify as a derogatory statement against Thai people because it has no basis in fact or any data to support the assumption. I guess the sun will come up tomorrow. If you guess it won't that is also a guess. That is why I asked. The chances of failed loans hurting the Thai economy next year has about as much probability of happening as the sun not coming up tomorrow. That's why I asked.

[rubl]

Although the sun will probably come up tomorrow, it's not said it will be visible.

With that philosophical observation, I predict that the cars will be visible tomorrow and easily out-maneuvered, zigzagging along on the back of a motorcy :-)

[kimamey]

In a year's time all these rebated cars will be causing gridlock in the second hand car yards along with loss of face!

I just wonder how many bought these cars on finance and once the 100k rebate runs out won't be able to make the payments

Most people have bought these cars on credit and they can't sell the car within 5 years.

This scheme is going to put many of those greedy car buyers into trouble.

This concerns me too. That in less than a year a lot of people, possibkly hundreds of thousands, will be struggling with debt repayments, will be facing repossession and at the very least be looking at an "asset" that due to there being a huge number of similar cars of similar age, will be depreciating rapidly and easily in excess of the 100k they "saved" by buying it.

It only benefits the Japanese car companies so far as I can tell.

Mind you, the US did the same thing with its "Cash for Clunkers" programs, which also seemed to be a direct transfer of funds straight to Japanese car companies.

I assume many will be able to pay longer than a year as that's the time they get the rebate which should give them a bit more time. After that who knows?

.

I don't know about the US scheme but I'd guess it's like the UK one which gave financial help if an old vehicle (over 10 years in the UK) was taken off the road. This had the advantage of not increasing vehicle numbers. I'm pretty sure it helped the car manufacturers which aren't all Japanese but of course the main reason was to stop mass redundancies. This worked at the time but unfortunately because the general economy hasn't picked up we're back where we started.

[bender92]

When is the crackdown on gridlock going to start? There's been so many successful crackdowns on everything else that surely BKK will be gridlock free in 90 days after a crackdown is declared!

First they need to allocate millions of baht for the budget, and to do a study.

[kimamey]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

Simply stated, 1.2 million more morons behind the wheel who have no business behind one.

My gf bought a new car under this scheme. I drive it a lot and I think I have every right to seeing as I took a test in the UK over 40 years ago and I can still answer the questions in the theory test. I'm not perfect but I think I could pass the practical test again as well. My gf already had a car licence although she rode a bike until she got the car but I was aware that her driving skills weren't that good so I gave her some instruction and now she's much better. Certainly better than many I see on the roads on 2 or more wheels. I'd agree there are many who shouldn't be driving and many of those will be driving these new cars but it certainly isn't all of them.

The biggest problem I see is even if you try to do things properly and get a licence the level of the test seems inadequate for the purpose and there seems to be a shortage of options to get training to improve if you want to.

[kevvy]

It is well known internationally that Bangkok is the largest Car Park in the world at anytime of the day. And you do not even have to pay to park, but must remain in your car.

they will bring in payments soon to cover the costs of the scheme

[theajarn]

Good for Yinluck coz she doesn't need to drive. Just take a helicopter flight to get around.

Oh, but isn't she overseas most of the time?

Why worry about silly people in Thailand. As if they knew any better.

[Asiantravel]

This compulsion for car ownership in Thailand is crazy!

I was recently with a Thai lady in Rangsit and she said she had to go to the bank to pay her brothers monthly car payment on his pickup truck. He works as a sales clerk at Homemart -no managerial position or anything-just a regular sales clerk. His monthly payment on his pickup is 9000 baht !! but he still has to pay for accommodation and food.

He has to pay this every month for six years. I was totally shocked to find someone in this position is paying such a high proportion of his monthly salary just to own a b***dy car.

I really don't know how they do it!

Ever since that incident I have been wondering if anyone has an idea of how much a person like that would earn in salary every month? Okay let's say he also get's some commission from selling items, surely it still wouldn't add to more than a few extra thousand?

[CMTourist]

Most people have bought these cars on credit and they can't sell the car within 5 years.

This scheme is going to put many of those greedy car buyers into trouble.

QUOTE END

This concerns me too. That in less than a year a lot of people, possibkly hundreds of thousands, will be struggling with debt repayments, will be facing repossession and at the very least be looking at an "asset" that due to there being a huge number of similar cars of similar age, will be depreciating rapidly and easily in excess of the 100k they "saved" by buying it.

It only benefits the Japanese car companies so far as I can tell.

Mind you, the US did the same thing with its "Cash for Clunkers" programs, which also seemed to be a direct transfer of funds straight to Japanese car companies.

/quote]

I assume many will be able to pay longer than a year as that's the time they get the rebate which should give them a bit more time. After that who knows?

.

I don't know about the US scheme but I'd guess it's like the UK one which gave financial help if an old vehicle (over 10 years in the UK) was taken off the road. This had the advantage of not increasing vehicle numbers. I'm pretty sure it helped the car manufacturers which aren't all Japanese but of course the main reason was to stop mass redundancies. This worked at the time but unfortunately because the general economy hasn't picked up we're back where we started.

/quote]

I wouldn't be too sure. I've noticed that many Thais are admirably optimistic that something will just turn up when next month's payment is due, rather than planning out whether they can make more than the down payment on a new purchase. This is not just a Thai trait, but is common in the West as well among those with a poor education in math.

Part of the rationale for the UK and US programs was that older cars are less fuel efficient than newer ones so reducing the age of the national fleet is good for the carbon balance. What they fail to mention is the energy cost and carbon release of manufacturing a new car is vastly larger than the benefits of a few miles per gallon. The cost of mining the iron, refining it to steel, drilling the oil, turning it into plastics, shipping materials, parts and finally the car back and forth around the world consumes so much energy that unless you intend to drive hundreds of thousands of miles a year, driving an older car is vastly more friendly for the environment than buying a new one.

[rixalex]

Two schools of thought as I see it. Those who think it is a bad idea but have not a clue why and have minimal advanced education and none in any form of formal economics and those who think it is a good idea who have PhD's in economics and many years of experience in Asian economics.

I have explained to you on many occasions, on various threads on this topic, why i think the idea was ill-conceived and badly thought out, and every time i do, you respond with something that complete ignores those issues, and instead you just repeat your mantra: the intention was to sell more cars, more cars have been sold, it worked!, everyone's a winner, case-closed type celebratory proclamations, that would i'm sure make government spokespeople beam with pride.

Anyway, for the last time of repeating, here are a few of my concerns:

1) Small Japanese cars already sell like hot cakes here, and it is quite possible that when looking at the bigger picture in a few years time, the same number of cars will have been sold as would have without the scheme, just that there will be a big spike last year and a dip that begins later on this year when the scheme ends. And for the sake of having that spike, millions of baht in lost tax revenue. Are we really sure these cars didn't already have customers in the wings, that have simply opened their cheque books a few months earlier than they otherwise would have done?

2) Why not help create a new market for an industry that needs help? And if not, if the government is so set on the motoring sector, why not a product that really pushes forward the green issue. For example, rather than setting a maximum limit for engine size at 1.5l, why not set a limit for minimum mpl that helps speed up into the market a new greener product, not the same old products that need no help being sold? Or if the limit is to do with engine size, why not make it a bit more radical - 1.2 or 1.0l for example? Less number of cars sold, perhaps yes, but smaller greener cars that may not have otherwise found custom.

3) By gearing the scheme in such a way that the sticker price remained exactly the same, with money returned after one year, it meant that people who took advantage of the scheme were people who most likely could already afford the purchase. Why not take the money off the sticker price, and allow those who couldn't afford to buy a Jazz at 600k baht, but who could afford to buy a Jazz at 500k, actually buy one? This way you not only open up a new customer base that previously didn't exist, you help poorer people who need help. And no, i'm not talking about encouraging people who can't afford to buy a car, buy one, i am talking about people who can't afford a 600k car but who can afford a 500k car.

4) The stipulation of it being the person's first car was largely a complete waste of time, as it was easily abused simply by putting the car in the name of an old aunt who couldn't drive and had never bought a car.

The scheme should have been restricted in a different way, perhaps in a way that excludes the wealthy and that rewards the working classes. I'm not sure how this could be done, but what i do know is, from many people in my area, the first car stipulation really was a waste of time, and all it has meant is that now thousands of people are driving around in new cars that they are paying for, but that don't belong to them, rather some distant relative.

I don't think the scheme was all bad, and i give the government credit for at the very least, sticking to a pre-election promise, even if the entire premise of the pre-election promise was simply to win votes, but i can see problems and flaws, and i think with a bit more forethought, a much better scheme could have been devised. That's all i'm saying.

[CMTourist]

This compulsion for car ownership in Thailand is crazy!

I was recently with a Thai lady in Rangsit and she said she had to go to the bank to pay her brothers monthly car payment on his pickup truck. He works as a sales clerk at Homemart -no managerial position or anything-just a regular sales clerk. His monthly payment on his pickup is 9000 baht !! but he still has to pay for accommodation and food.

He has to pay this every month for six years. I was totally shocked to find someone in this position is paying such a high proportion of his monthly salary just to own a b***dy car.

I really don't know how they do it!

Ever since that incident I have been wondering if anyone has an idea of how much a person like that would earn in salary every month? Okay let's say he also get's some commission from selling items, surely it still wouldn't add to more than a few extra thousand?

I've had many Thai staff that I've known their salary obviously and could not fathom how they were driving the cars they were. I had a secretary on 16,000 driving a brand new Passatt as just one example.

I think its a combination of living at home with their parents and thus able to spend a very high proportion of their salary on car payments as they have no other bills and parents and family members kicking in to help with down payment or monthly payments.

I also knew some Western educated Thai men in their 50s and 60s who were well off and had good jobs and bought more cars than they could afford and ended up having them repossessed. (And one for the Thai bashers who think they're all in a conspiracy against foreigners, one of the men lost his car so he could keep making payments on a car he bought for a young Thai girl in the provinces who had him twisted round her little finger and was bleeding him dry. No fool like an old fool and shows its not just foreigners who end up being bankrupted by young women)

[Asiantravel]

This compulsion for car ownership in Thailand is crazy!

I was recently with a Thai lady in Rangsit and she said she had to go to the bank to pay her brothers monthly car payment on his pickup truck. He works as a sales clerk at Homemart -no managerial position or anything-just a regular sales clerk. His monthly payment on his pickup is 9000 baht !! but he still has to pay for accommodation and food.

He has to pay this every month for six years. I was totally shocked to find someone in this position is paying such a high proportion of his monthly salary just to own a b***dy car.

I really don't know how they do it!

Ever since that incident I have been wondering if anyone has an idea of how much a person like that would earn in salary every month? Okay let's say he also get's some commission from selling items, surely it still wouldn't add to more than a few extra thousand?

I've had many Thai staff that I've known their salary obviously and could not fathom how they were driving the cars they were. I had a secretary on 16,000 driving a brand new Passatt as just one example.

I think its a combination of living at home with their parents and thus able to spend a very high proportion of their salary on car payments as they have no other bills and parents and family members kicking in to help with down payment or monthly payments.

I also knew some Western educated Thai men in their 50s and 60s who were well off and had good jobs and bought more cars than they could afford and ended up having them repossessed. (And one for the Thai bashers who think they're all in a conspiracy against foreigners, one of the men lost his car so he could keep making payments on a car he bought for a young Thai girl in the provinces who had him twisted round her little finger and was bleeding him dry. No fool like an old fool and shows its not just foreigners who end up being bankrupted by young women)

Yes but in this case I mentioned regarding the Homemart sales staff member I know for a fact he is renting his accommodation in Bangkok and his family who live in the provinces certainly don't provide any support. In fact it's the other way around in that the children are sending money home to their parents.

Do they worry about these things? And it's not like when I used to be making payments on a mortgage where at least I knew I had an asset that should go up in value( and it did ).

It must be an incredible pressure on these people to be paying this proportion of their salary for so many years on a depreciating asset?

Edited January 10, 2013 by Asiantravel

[khunken]

One problem here is that a car is very often more highly regarded than a house or condo. This is why people have repayments on a car that can be up to 90% of their income. They live with relatives & probably have their food & utilities paid for.

It's the opposite attitude to the so-called advanced countries: car first, house second rather than house first & car second.

[NoshowJones]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

Traffic indicators use em too

I actually was riding behind a articulated truck on my motorbike today, and he used his indicators to pull in. Yes. it's true. non Thais are not allowed to drive trucks, are they?

[Dap]

In a year's time all these rebated cars will be causing gridlock in the second hand car yards along with loss of face!

Yup! Dealing with those monthly new car payments is a ... ooooh noooooo ... responsibility.

For many, THAT simply ain't gonna' fly.

[MESmith]

I actually saw an articulated truck driver use his indicators today, I was riding behind on my motorbike when I made this very unusual sighting. Is it possible it wasn't a Thai who was driving this truck?

The articulated truck drivers are usually the most professional drivers on the road in my opinion. I assume you mean the petrol tanker, container truck drivers. Trucks pulling trailers are a different story.

[Dap]

Wont be these new cars on the car dealership lot (they are not allowed to sel lthem for 4 years i think it was) - but there will be a load of other used and abused cars there!

there will be a lot of these cars for sale next year when the buyers discover they have to make monthly payments on them.

Good call there gentlemen. The wife's been talking about needing a car. I believe next year will be the most opportune time frame to begin the search. Sure to be some monster savings on "barely" used vehicles.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Dap

[sjjmmi]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

Traffic indicators use em too

I actually was riding behind a articulated truck on my motorbike today, and he used his indicators to pull in. Yes. it's true. non Thais are not allowed to drive trucks, are they?

Best post of the day

[lineofentry]

I like driving in Thailand, it's very interesting and sometimes exciting, boring as ###k in England.

[CantSpell]

More gridlock: more banana sales

Happy new year to banana fritter sellers

[Scott]

Somebody inquired about buying a car without a driver's license. When I bought my first vehicle, maybe 10 years ago, I didn't have a Thai driver's license and I never showed any foreign driver's license. The vehicle was purchased as well as first class insurance without a driver's license.

I did find out that when you have an accident, though, it's a good idea to have a driver's license.

[NoshowJones]

Maybe if the drivers had to pass actual driving tests before they were allowed to drive it would help, some basic training like:

You have to stop at red lights.

You must drive on the left hand side of the road.

You do not overtake on double lines and cars on the other side of the road do not have to move off the road to allow you to do it.

You do not have right of way just because you start the car.

On a one way road you can not travel in the opposite direction because it is easier.

If you are on your cell phone pull over, dont just drive very slow and use every lane.

You do not turn right from the left hand lane .

and this doesnt even start on the bike riders, oh well, we can only dream.

Traffic indicators use em too

I actually was riding behind a articulated truck on my motorbike today, and he used his indicators to pull in. Yes. it's true. non Thais are not allowed to drive trucks, are they?

Best post of the day

Sjjmmi, thank you very much.

[LaoPo]

Solve the problem a little like they do in China's megacities:

* EVEN DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an even number are allowed to drive

* ODD DAYS, cars with numbers ending with an odd number are allowed to drive

If caught, the driver gets a heavy penalty or even take the drivers' license away.

With this system people will get creative and "poll" to and from work to their neighbourhood.

Read my words... .this system will ALSO be installed in Bangkok in the near future; it's the ONLY way out of a strangled city.

Edited January 10, 2013 by LaoPo

[watcharacters]

Wont be these new cars on the car dealership lot (they are not allowed to sel lthem for 4 years i think it was) - but there will be a load of other used and abused cars there!

Good point of clarification.