I Have A Job... I Should Be Happy, But...

[pxlgirl]

Honestly, the trips to work don't really bother me that much, even it it sounds weird. I have my regular routine (bus + van), I have days when I actually enjoy the trips more than the working days, and the main problem there is that the boss is a control-freak type, most working under her are submissive because they think this job is their only option. So then people end up working their assess off, unable to reject any given order. My boss is doing their daily rounds to check on everyone, keeping the dynamics stable by doing the "carrot-and-stick-strategy". So me, a creative person and a quite independent mind, kinda stands out, especially when my working style differs from the rest of the office-secretary-jobs. Before some of you jump on me again, let me shortly explain that working style: The creative process (e. g. developing some idea for a given project) undergoes a few phases. The most important ones include research, collecting material, working out first idea or parts of it, either in the mind, on paper or however they can be memorized, visualizing first mockups, probably repeating some of the stages in case things didn't turn out the way they were intended to be, and finally, the last step would be actually visualizing and pushing some pixels around. These stages don't follow a strict rule how they must be approached, every artist/designer has their ways to deal with it. It might sound stupid, but a clear and relaxed mind is crucial to get things done properly. It's no co-incidence that good ideas emerge not when caged in the office, they can come up when taking a short walk, listening to music, watching a movie or whatever makes the mind clear. For me, music is good, occasional change of place, most importantly, lots of tea. This is not some personal quirk, studies actually confirmed the effectiveness of the strategies I mentioned above. (please forgive me not to list the sources, I'm a bit tired and it would take ages for me to find and quote them). Apart from my work being well done and always on time, my boss isn't very pleased about the way I'm doing my work, not because of how I do it, but rather the fact that I can't be "controlled" so easily like all the others. In addition to that, I dare to "defend" my space and do not to agree to just anything.

I kinda miss my previous job, even though my salary was less, my former boss was cool and he let me do things however I wanted unless I got it all done well, but the HR in that place were a bunch of idiots who were too lame to get my wp paperwork done properly. My boss' rank wasn't unfortunately hight enough to intervene. Then my recent job came along and I'm a bit disappointed how things turn out and a slightly bigger salary doesn't lighten my mood.

Someone mentioned a case of a woman who found herself in a similar situation, also having health issues, lastly ended up leaving Thailand. I'm aware of some limits my health related issues cause, but they aren't a problem for me since I've dealt with it all my life and I have ways to cope. So giving up is not an option.

[arminbkk]

I work for a local Thai company. I'm the first and only farang.

The Thai boss is a very nice and reasonable guy, he also speaks English well.

He prefers a flexible work environment.

It allows me to come in late. Which I prefer not to, but it happens.

I like flexible, but the Thai staff take it to a whole different level.

Whenever the Thai boss is not in (out for meetings etc.), the Thai will exercise flexibility.

They will take long lunch breaks, up to 2 hours, out of the office, then return and 30 minutes later go out again,

shopping at a shopping mall a few kilometers away, come back an hour and a half later, then go out to the

market to buy dinner, come back, and 5 minutes later, still before 5pm, already leave for home.

It is not everybody, but many of the staff.

Now I must admit, it's not a busy time at the office, not so much business coming in.

So I guess they are not slacking at work.

Anyway, today, in a subtle way, I asked my boss what the company rule is exactly for when there is

not much work to do, whether staff is free to do what they want, go out for a while etc.

He told me, that, of course, staff is to remain in the office. I obviously know this already. I've noticed that

when the boss is in, the staff will stay in, and certainly not leave before 5pm.

Of course, I did not relate to him the above, although I've thought about doing that.

Thai friends have advised me not to tell him, but just let the staff do their thing, and I should just do it

the way I feel it is correct.

Anyone with a similar experience?

[MrHammer]

So me, a creative person and a quite independent mind, kinda stands out, especially when my working style differs from the rest of the office-secretary-jobs

I think this statement is probably one of the most common fortune teller cold reads. Everyone likes to think that they're special. You may actually be special, I'm just saying that everyone in your office probably believes themselves to be an integral part of the system.

I'm saying this as someone who would also describe myself that way and actually worked (in the west) under very little restriction, coming and going as I pleased pretty much, but still got a decent wage and respect. I got offered the senior positon in my field for example, to lead the other 5 employees in that department. I turned it down however, because I actually valued freedom more than money at that time. But the difference is that my choosing freedom and flexibility came from already having proven myself worthy many times.

You simply can't say that you take pride in being able to 'reject any given order'. You're not the boss or Don Draper. If you were that valuable, it simply wouldn't be an issue, they'd strive to adjust to you.

What I'm saying is that I think you overinflate the value you add to the organisation, which is very common and why many in 'creative' fields try going solo as consultants or opening their own office. Most fail because running a business or faculty is very different than being a highly specialized employee.

Then you have the Thai working culture which is 40 years behind the west when it comes to management culture. You're working with people who probably consider foreigners as stealing their wages. Working unpaid into the evening is a sign that there is a clear office culture which you belittle by not doing so. In the end, it's quite obvious that you're not a good fit in this organization. Doesn't have to mean that you are the problem though.

So you really only have three options, find a new job, stay in the job but conform and submit or try freelancing. If you tried the latter, you might discover some insights into the value of less creative peoples work. The creative person needs loyal, 'boring' people to make their ideas come true.

Best of luck though, hope your health improves.

[MrHammer]

I work for a local Thai company. I'm the first and only farang.

The Thai boss is a very nice and reasonable guy, he also speaks English well.

He prefers a flexible work environment.

It allows me to come in late. Which I prefer not to, but it happens.

I like flexible, but the Thai staff take it to a whole different level.

Whenever the Thai boss is not in (out for meetings etc.), the Thai will exercise flexibility.

They will take long lunch breaks, up to 2 hours, out of the office, then return and 30 minutes later go out again,

shopping at a shopping mall a few kilometers away, come back an hour and a half later, then go out to the

market to buy dinner, come back, and 5 minutes later, still before 5pm, already leave for home.

It is not everybody, but many of the staff.

Now I must admit, it's not a busy time at the office, not so much business coming in.

So I guess they are not slacking at work.

Anyway, today, in a subtle way, I asked my boss what the company rule is exactly for when there is

not much work to do, whether staff is free to do what they want, go out for a while etc.

He told me, that, of course, staff is to remain in the office. I obviously know this already. I've noticed that

when the boss is in, the staff will stay in, and certainly not leave before 5pm.

Of course, I did not relate to him the above, although I've thought about doing that.

Thai friends have advised me not to tell him, but just let the staff do their thing, and I should just do it

the way I feel it is correct.

Anyone with a similar experience?

Nobody likes a snitch. It's also going to make the boss look bad.

[varun]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your issues aside, I think your boss maybe suffering from queen bee syndrome.

Thai women, in general are fairly incompetent bosses, and are especially ruthless towards their female subordinates.

Again, there are always exceptions, I've met a handul that were educated in the West, are forward-thinking and excellent mentors.

I believe you have two choices:

1) Change your attitude and try to integrate better into your workplace.

2) Change your workplace

Good luck.

[scorecard]

Honestly, the trips to work don't really bother me that much, even it it sounds weird. I have my regular routine (bus + van), I have days when I actually enjoy the trips more than the working days, and the main problem there is that the boss is a control-freak type, most working under her are submissive because they think this job is their only option. So then people end up working their assess off, unable to reject any given order. My boss is doing their daily rounds to check on everyone, keeping the dynamics stable by doing the "carrot-and-stick-strategy". So me, a creative person and a quite independent mind, kinda stands out, especially when my working style differs from the rest of the office-secretary-jobs. Before some of you jump on me again, let me shortly explain that working style: The creative process (e. g. developing some idea for a given project) undergoes a few phases. The most important ones include research, collecting material, working out first idea or parts of it, either in the mind, on paper or however they can be memorized, visualizing first mockups, probably repeating some of the stages in case things didn't turn out the way they were intended to be, and finally, the last step would be actually visualizing and pushing some pixels around. These stages don't follow a strict rule how they must be approached, every artist/designer has their ways to deal with it. It might sound stupid, but a clear and relaxed mind is crucial to get things done properly. It's no co-incidence that good ideas emerge not when caged in the office, they can come up when taking a short walk, listening to music, watching a movie or whatever makes the mind clear. For me, music is good, occasional change of place, most importantly, lots of tea. This is not some personal quirk, studies actually confirmed the effectiveness of the strategies I mentioned above. (please forgive me not to list the sources, I'm a bit tired and it would take ages for me to find and quote them). Apart from my work being well done and always on time, my boss isn't very pleased about the way I'm doing my work, not because of how I do it, but rather the fact that I can't be "controlled" so easily like all the others. In addition to that, I dare to "defend" my space and do not to agree to just anything.

I kinda miss my previous job, even though my salary was less, my former boss was cool and he let me do things however I wanted unless I got it all done well, but the HR in that place were a bunch of idiots who were too lame to get my wp paperwork done properly. My boss' rank wasn't unfortunately hight enough to intervene. Then my recent job came along and I'm a bit disappointed how things turn out and a slightly bigger salary doesn't lighten my mood.

Someone mentioned a case of a woman who found herself in a similar situation, also having health issues, lastly ended up leaving Thailand. I'm aware of some limits my health related issues cause, but they aren't a problem for me since I've dealt with it all my life and I have ways to cope. So giving up is not an option.

I say again, I believe your a troll. You say you are creative, you say you work in the area of communications.

But your communications here are way less than creative, in fact your 'messages' are confusing and close to incoherent and verbose. Not the hallmarks of a creative communications professional.

Just what is your beef?

Do you really expect that a 'creative person' as you describe yourself would find the work environment you may well see inside of Google or in a high profile advertising agency inside of a Thai (in fact in almost any government) agency?

Do you really think this should / could all magically change just for you?

Do you realize that 99% maybe 100% of the staff around you (Thai), have never seen a working environment / culture which would be typical in a western private enterprise creative company, or a similar Thai company? Or in any private enterprise company, regardless of the products or services they market?

No of course not, so they have nothing to relate to in terms of the work environment, and 99% maybe 100% of the Thai staff would never have even thought about this subject, and the same with most western staff.

So if your so creative, how come your working inside of a Thai government agency?

Earlier you claimed that your manager was stealing or cancelling your annual leave days. I note you've gone quiet on this one. To be honest I just can't imagine that a manager within a Thai government based education organization would be doing this? In fact I have doubts that a work contract for a farang (which can only be a one year contract, but renewable with another one year contract) would even include annual leave.

In the several Thai universities where I have lectured the administration and other staff within the various faculties etc., are quite professional in terms of their attitude to work, their outputs, deadlines, etc., and their managers are mostly quality people with good focus.

At the three universities which would perhaps be the top three in Thailand, they have a professionally staffed HR dept., who give good advice to line managers and supervisors and silly games about stealing / canceling annual leave etc., are not in the picture, not at all!

So what is your beef?

[scorecard]

I work for a local Thai company. I'm the first and only farang.

The Thai boss is a very nice and reasonable guy, he also speaks English well.

He prefers a flexible work environment.

It allows me to come in late. Which I prefer not to, but it happens.

I like flexible, but the Thai staff take it to a whole different level.

Whenever the Thai boss is not in (out for meetings etc.), the Thai will exercise flexibility.

They will take long lunch breaks, up to 2 hours, out of the office, then return and 30 minutes later go out again,

shopping at a shopping mall a few kilometers away, come back an hour and a half later, then go out to the

market to buy dinner, come back, and 5 minutes later, still before 5pm, already leave for home.

It is not everybody, but many of the staff.

Now I must admit, it's not a busy time at the office, not so much business coming in.

So I guess they are not slacking at work.

Anyway, today, in a subtle way, I asked my boss what the company rule is exactly for when there is

not much work to do, whether staff is free to do what they want, go out for a while etc.

He told me, that, of course, staff is to remain in the office. I obviously know this already. I've noticed that

when the boss is in, the staff will stay in, and certainly not leave before 5pm.

Of course, I did not relate to him the above, although I've thought about doing that.

Thai friends have advised me not to tell him, but just let the staff do their thing, and I should just do it

the way I feel it is correct.

Anyone with a similar experience?

Nobody likes a snitch. It's also going to make the boss look bad.

Plus you may well damage your realtionship with the Thai boss because you put him in a situation where he looks weak (to you) if he doesn't take action. He's not going to apprecaite being put into this situation and may well step away from any closeness that currently exists between you.

Also remmeber, there's always the possibility that he already knows what's going on when he's not there, but chooses (for whatever reasons - perhaps in fact valid reasons) to ignore it.

Edited January 18, 2013 by scorecard

[StreetCowboy]

Honestly, the trips to work don't really bother me that much, even it it sounds weird. I have my regular routine (bus + van), I have days when I actually enjoy the trips more than the working days, and the main problem there is that the boss is a control-freak type, most working under her are submissive because they think this job is their only option. So then people end up working their assess off, unable to reject any given order. My boss is doing their daily rounds to check on everyone, keeping the dynamics stable by doing the "carrot-and-stick-strategy". So me, a creative person and a quite independent mind, kinda stands out, especially when my working style differs from the rest of the office-secretary-jobs. Before some of you jump on me again, let me shortly explain that working style: The creative process (e. g. developing some idea for a given project) undergoes a few phases. The most important ones include research, collecting material, working out first idea or parts of it, either in the mind, on paper or however they can be memorized, visualizing first mockups, probably repeating some of the stages in case things didn't turn out the way they were intended to be, and finally, the last step would be actually visualizing and pushing some pixels around. These stages don't follow a strict rule how they must be approached, every artist/designer has their ways to deal with it. It might sound stupid, but a clear and relaxed mind is crucial to get things done properly. It's no co-incidence that good ideas emerge not when caged in the office, they can come up when taking a short walk, listening to music, watching a movie or whatever makes the mind clear. For me, music is good, occasional change of place, most importantly, lots of tea. This is not some personal quirk, studies actually confirmed the effectiveness of the strategies I mentioned above. (please forgive me not to list the sources, I'm a bit tired and it would take ages for me to find and quote them). Apart from my work being well done and always on time, my boss isn't very pleased about the way I'm doing my work, not because of how I do it, but rather the fact that I can't be "controlled" so easily like all the others. In addition to that, I dare to "defend" my space and do not to agree to just anything.

I kinda miss my previous job, even though my salary was less, my former boss was cool and he let me do things however I wanted unless I got it all done well, but the HR in that place were a bunch of idiots who were too lame to get my wp paperwork done properly. My boss' rank wasn't unfortunately hight enough to intervene. Then my recent job came along and I'm a bit disappointed how things turn out and a slightly bigger salary doesn't lighten my mood.

Someone mentioned a case of a woman who found herself in a similar situation, also having health issues, lastly ended up leaving Thailand. I'm aware of some limits my health related issues cause, but they aren't a problem for me since I've dealt with it all my life and I have ways to cope. So giving up is not an option.

I say again, I believe your a troll. You say you are creative, you say you work in the area of communications.

But your communications here are way less than creative, in fact your 'messages' are confusing and close to incoherent and verbose. Not the hallmarks of a creative communications professional.

Just what is your beef?

Do you really expect that a 'creative person' as you describe yourself would find the work environment you may well see inside of Google or in a high profile advertising agency inside of a Thai (in fact in almost any government) agency?

Do you really think this should / could all magically change just for you?

Do you realize that 99% maybe 100% of the staff around you (Thai), have never seen a working environment / culture which would be typical in a western private enterprise creative company, or a similar Thai company? Or in any private enterprise company, regardless of the products or services they market?

No of course not, so they have nothing to relate to in terms of the work environment, and 99% maybe 100% of the Thai staff would never have even thought about this subject, and the same with most western staff.

So if your so creative, how come your working inside of a Thai government agency?

Earlier you claimed that your manager was stealing or cancelling your annual leave days. I note you've gone quiet on this one. To be honest I just can't imagine that a manager within a Thai government based education organization would be doing this? In fact I have doubts that a work contract for a farang (which can only be a one year contract, but renewable with another one year contract) would even include annual leave.

In the several Thai universities where I have lectured the administration and other staff within the various faculties etc., are quite professional in terms of their attitude to work, their outputs, deadlines, etc., and their managers are mostly quality people with good focus.

At the three universities which would perhaps be the top three in Thailand, they have a professionally staffed HR dept., who give good advice to line managers and supervisors and silly games about stealing / canceling annual leave etc., are not in the picture, not at all!

So what is your beef?

Whenever one of the young ladies in my company comes to me with some whinging moan, I just tell her to get a grip and pull herself together, knuckle down and nose to the grindstone. That was how I lost my first management position.

SC

[arminbkk]

Yeah nobody likes a snitch.

In a week my boss will go on holiday to Japan for a week. So I can go to the gym in the afternoons and I will have chance to catch up on some movies :-)

Conform and adjust and all that.

[pxlgirl]

I think this statement is probably one of the most common fortune teller cold reads. Everyone likes to think that they're special. You may actually be special, I'm just saying that everyone in your office probably believes themselves to be an integral part of the system.

Hmm, this one is tricky, and actually many designers think quite highly of themselves, sometimes even a but too highly. I wasn't referring to me being any kind of special in that matter. The brain of those who work in arts or creative fields works pretty much the same, so that doesn't make anyone "special" in particular, see where I'm going? But as a matter of fact, approaching tasks surely differs from the average secretary jobs. This isn't a bad thing in the first place, it's just different. However, the problem is how these differences are being dealt with.

I have to agree with you what you said about the management part, it is indeed a wee bit behind and someone else mentioned the "queen bee-syndrom" which pretty much hits the nail. I've heard of a lot of people dealing with similar issues, and... surprise... it's not only farungs who suffer. And yes, shit happens everywhere, companies, governmental institutions and organizations, and oh yeah, that happens in the west too. People are people in the end, money power and ego is never a good mix.

It's funny though how some poster claims how well organized and great the HR departments are in Thailand, yet on the other side people would moan how backwards and not advanced this country is supposed to be (see politics and other topics). And of course, I'm not going to justify myself, reboil things over and over again just so that I might or might not to be called a troll.

[geriatrickid]

smart people get accommodation as close to their work as possible. makes life much easier.

And what if the employer relocates?

I used to live within a 20 minute leisurely walk to the office. How I loved it. Two of my friends would go home for lunch,as they lived close by too. Then the issue of budget constraints kicked in and they relocated my unit far away from my residence. I had to commute.

What a waste of time and a drag on productivity.

[Briggsy]

Extrapolating from the OP's posts, it appears her salary is 30,000 gross, perhaps 27,000 net.

For Westerners working anywhere in the world, this is a very low-paid job. Even for a TEFL teacher working in Bangkok, this is low-paid. There is no way to get around it, this is really low-paid work.

The work permit issue is neither here nor there, a new job would get a new work permit or a trip to Laos would get a new visa. The issue here is the OP is not looking beyond the next week or so and is trapping herself in a low-paid job with a boss she does not get on with. All the other quoted issues are a deflecting self-denial mechanism to avoid dealing with the main issue.

[canman]

I think this statement is probably one of the most common fortune teller cold reads. Everyone likes to think that they're special. You may actually be special, I'm just saying that everyone in your office probably believes themselves to be an integral part of the system.

Hmm, this one is tricky, and actually many designers think quite highly of themselves, sometimes even a but too highly. I wasn't referring to me being any kind of special in that matter. The brain of those who work in arts or creative fields works pretty much the same, so that doesn't make anyone "special" in particular, see where I'm going? But as a matter of fact, approaching tasks surely differs from the average secretary jobs. This isn't a bad thing in the first place, it's just different. However, the problem is how these differences are being dealt with.

I have to agree with you what you said about the management part, it is indeed a wee bit behind and someone else mentioned the "queen bee-syndrom" which pretty much hits the nail. I've heard of a lot of people dealing with similar issues, and... surprise... it's not only farungs who suffer. And yes, shit happens everywhere, companies, governmental institutions and organizations, and oh yeah, that happens in the west too. People are people in the end, money power and ego is never a good mix.

It's funny though how some poster claims how well organized and great the HR departments are in Thailand, yet on the other side people would moan how backwards and not advanced this country is supposed to be (see politics and other topics). And of course, I'm not going to justify myself, reboil things over and over again just so that I might or might not to be called a troll.

It's a tough crowd here pxlgirl, you're holding up well though.

[Briggsy]

Never feel trapped into staying with a job here 'cos you get a work permit.

You can put up with a challenging job:-

if the money is better than you'll get elsewhere,

or if the job will lead to better career prospects,

or if a promotion is in the offing,

or if it is the only thing available in a certain location that you want to stay in.

But don't stick with a job just because of a crappy Thai work permit. You are giving it way too much importance.

[scorecard]

Honestly, the trips to work don't really bother me that much, even it it sounds weird. I have my regular routine (bus + van), I have days when I actually enjoy the trips more than the working days, and the main problem there is that the boss is a control-freak type, most working under her are submissive because they think this job is their only option. So then people end up working their assess off, unable to reject any given order. My boss is doing their daily rounds to check on everyone, keeping the dynamics stable by doing the "carrot-and-stick-strategy". So me, a creative person and a quite independent mind, kinda stands out, especially when my working style differs from the rest of the office-secretary-jobs. Before some of you jump on me again, let me shortly explain that working style: The creative process (e. g. developing some idea for a given project) undergoes a few phases. The most important ones include research, collecting material, working out first idea or parts of it, either in the mind, on paper or however they can be memorized, visualizing first mockups, probably repeating some of the stages in case things didn't turn out the way they were intended to be, and finally, the last step would be actually visualizing and pushing some pixels around. These stages don't follow a strict rule how they must be approached, every artist/designer has their ways to deal with it. It might sound stupid, but a clear and relaxed mind is crucial to get things done properly. It's no co-incidence that good ideas emerge not when caged in the office, they can come up when taking a short walk, listening to music, watching a movie or whatever makes the mind clear. For me, music is good, occasional change of place, most importantly, lots of tea. This is not some personal quirk, studies actually confirmed the effectiveness of the strategies I mentioned above. (please forgive me not to list the sources, I'm a bit tired and it would take ages for me to find and quote them). Apart from my work being well done and always on time, my boss isn't very pleased about the way I'm doing my work, not because of how I do it, but rather the fact that I can't be "controlled" so easily like all the others. In addition to that, I dare to "defend" my space and do not to agree to just anything.

I kinda miss my previous job, even though my salary was less, my former boss was cool and he let me do things however I wanted unless I got it all done well, but the HR in that place were a bunch of idiots who were too lame to get my wp paperwork done properly. My boss' rank wasn't unfortunately hight enough to intervene. Then my recent job came along and I'm a bit disappointed how things turn out and a slightly bigger salary doesn't lighten my mood.

Someone mentioned a case of a woman who found herself in a similar situation, also having health issues, lastly ended up leaving Thailand. I'm aware of some limits my health related issues cause, but they aren't a problem for me since I've dealt with it all my life and I have ways to cope. So giving up is not an option.

I say again, I believe your a troll. You say you are creative, you say you work in the area of communications.

But your communications here are way less than creative, in fact your 'messages' are confusing and close to incoherent and verbose. Not the hallmarks of a creative communications professional.

Just what is your beef?

Do you really expect that a 'creative person' as you describe yourself would find the work environment you may well see inside of Google or in a high profile advertising agency inside of a Thai (in fact in almost any government) agency?

Do you really think this should / could all magically change just for you?

Do you realize that 99% maybe 100% of the staff around you (Thai), have never seen a working environment / culture which would be typical in a western private enterprise creative company, or a similar Thai company? Or in any private enterprise company, regardless of the products or services they market?

No of course not, so they have nothing to relate to in terms of the work environment, and 99% maybe 100% of the Thai staff would never have even thought about this subject, and the same with most western staff.

So if your so creative, how come your working inside of a Thai government agency?

Earlier you claimed that your manager was stealing or cancelling your annual leave days. I note you've gone quiet on this one. To be honest I just can't imagine that a manager within a Thai government based education organization would be doing this? In fact I have doubts that a work contract for a farang (which can only be a one year contract, but renewable with another one year contract) would even include annual leave.

In the several Thai universities where I have lectured the administration and other staff within the various faculties etc., are quite professional in terms of their attitude to work, their outputs, deadlines, etc., and their managers are mostly quality people with good focus.

At the three universities which would perhaps be the top three in Thailand, they have a professionally staffed HR dept., who give good advice to line managers and supervisors and silly games about stealing / canceling annual leave etc., are not in the picture, not at all!

So what is your beef?

Whenever one of the young ladies in my company comes to me with some whinging moan, I just tell her to get a grip and pull herself together, knuckle down and nose to the grindstone. That was how I lost my first management position.

SC

Sort of reminds me of the young lady, recent MBA graduate, never worked ever, rejected some work given her on about the 3rd or 4th day of employment. "I don't want to do that sort of work, it's not part of my personal career path".

She lasted perhaps another 60 days, CEO suggested she move along quickly and start full time search to find another company which did fit her personal career path.

[scorecard]

I think this statement is probably one of the most common fortune teller cold reads. Everyone likes to think that they're special. You may actually be special, I'm just saying that everyone in your office probably believes themselves to be an integral part of the system.

Hmm, this one is tricky, and actually many designers think quite highly of themselves, sometimes even a but too highly. I wasn't referring to me being any kind of special in that matter. The brain of those who work in arts or creative fields works pretty much the same, so that doesn't make anyone "special" in particular, see where I'm going? But as a matter of fact, approaching tasks surely differs from the average secretary jobs. This isn't a bad thing in the first place, it's just different. However, the problem is how these differences are being dealt with.

I have to agree with you what you said about the management part, it is indeed a wee bit behind and someone else mentioned the "queen bee-syndrom" which pretty much hits the nail. I've heard of a lot of people dealing with similar issues, and... surprise... it's not only farungs who suffer. And yes, shit happens everywhere, companies, governmental institutions and organizations, and oh yeah, that happens in the west too. People are people in the end, money power and ego is never a good mix.

It's funny though how some poster claims how well organized and great the HR departments are in Thailand, yet on the other side people would moan how backwards and not advanced this country is supposed to be (see politics and other topics). And of course, I'm not going to justify myself, reboil things over and over again just so that I might or might not to be called a troll.

Well if you are eluding to my post, and if were a real communications expert you would have comprehended what I said much more clearly. I specifically said HR Departments in 3 Thai universities (and I stand by what I said), I didn't say "...HR departments in Thailand...".

Another example of why I really doubt that you are a communications expert. I also wonder how old you are, but that's your personal business.

Are you one of those folks who blame HR or perhaps blame their manager because you can't get / have everything 'nice' just for you, with no consideration that HR / the manager / the employer needs to keep a grip on the big picture, and need to aim for a good working situation for all employees.

Is your situation really very much different from 99% of the people in employment in any country. And by the way you could perhaps remember that a very very large percenatge of the workforce in all countries hate their jobs, often have limited options, etc., and continue to drag themselves to work every day, perhaps even with a boring commute, so they can eat.

Or are you a 'stand out in the crowd' communications expert who can walk in and get employed on the spot by a serious high profile communications and PR consultancy, or international / Thai advertising agency*? If you are the latter, then why are you working in a Thai government office?

* Such agencies, both offshore based / international, and Thai based do exist in Thailand.

So, what's your real beef?

Edited January 18, 2013 by scorecard

[StreetCowboy]

...

Well if you are eluding to my post, and if were a real communications expert you would have comprehended what I said much more clearly. I specifically said HR Departments in 3 Thai universities (and I stand by what I said), I didn't say "...HR departments in Thailand...".

Another example of why I really doubt that you are a communications expert

Are you one of those folks who blame HR or perhaps blame their manager because you can't get / have everything 'nice' just for you, with no consideration that HR / the manager / the employer needs to keep a grip on the big picture, and need to keep the ship running smoothly.

Is your situation really very much different from 99% of the people in employment in any country. And by the way you could perhaps remember that a very very large percenatge of the workforce in all countries hate their jobs, often have limited options, etc., and continue to drag themselves to work every day, perhaps even with a boring commute, so they can eat.

Or are you a 'stand out in the crowd' communications expert who can walk in and get employed on the spot by a serious high profile communications and PR consultancy? If you are the latter, then why are you working in a Thai government office?

So, what's your real beef?

She's probably just fed up with people having a go at her when it's none of their business. I know it's fun to harangue those worse-off than ourselves, but she came on here asking for advice and perhaps a bit of sympathy, and telling her to grow a pair and move on is not particularly helpful, nor sympathetic, and just reinforces our reputation as grumpy old misogynists.

SC

[canman]

So anyway; I worked in Thailand for awhile.

After 4 years my boss called me into his office and said "Mr. C I still contend that your not too bright but you have managed to survive four years so I reckon your due a reward"

"that's great boss" I said "what is it?"

"How does a new car sound" he said

"vrooom, vrooom" I said

Just thought I would lighten the tone; I'll get my coat>

Edited January 18, 2013 by canman

[scorecard]

...

Well if you are eluding to my post, and if were a real communications expert you would have comprehended what I said much more clearly. I specifically said HR Departments in 3 Thai universities (and I stand by what I said), I didn't say "...HR departments in Thailand...".

Another example of why I really doubt that you are a communications expert

Are you one of those folks who blame HR or perhaps blame their manager because you can't get / have everything 'nice' just for you, with no consideration that HR / the manager / the employer needs to keep a grip on the big picture, and need to keep the ship running smoothly.

Is your situation really very much different from 99% of the people in employment in any country. And by the way you could perhaps remember that a very very large percenatge of the workforce in all countries hate their jobs, often have limited options, etc., and continue to drag themselves to work every day, perhaps even with a boring commute, so they can eat.

Or are you a 'stand out in the crowd' communications expert who can walk in and get employed on the spot by a serious high profile communications and PR consultancy? If you are the latter, then why are you working in a Thai government office?

So, what's your real beef?

She's probably just fed up with people having a go at her when it's none of their business. I know it's fun to harangue those worse-off than ourselves, but she came on here asking for advice and perhaps a bit of sympathy, and telling her to grow a pair and move on is not particularly helpful, nor sympathetic, and just reinforces our reputation as grumpy old misogynists.

SC

She started the thread, it's an internet weboard / forum so expect some positive and some comments that you may not particularly like.

There is an argument that her initial comments and those since invited some flak. In any case she's had lots of advice from posters, both direct and between the lines.

[Choonpon]

You have just started working for 2 months only and took 3 days of medical leave already. Bosses are bosses. Even when you are really sick, bosses still don't like staff to be absent from work. At my workplace, sick leave is unpaid if it's within the 3 months probation period. You should start building good relationship with your co-workers; so badmouthing may be lessened. For eg. Buy snacks to share at the office, abit of girlie talk with them. Try to blend in with the rest. Because you are a foreigner, you need extra effort to get accepted.

Meanwhile if you are really unhappy, keep a lookout for other better jobs quietly at the same time. Good luck!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[otherstuff1957]

Then you have the Thai working culture which is 40 years behind the west when it comes to management culture. You're working with people who probably consider foreigners as stealing their wages. Working unpaid into the evening is a sign that there is a clear office culture which you belittle by not doing so. In the end, it's quite obvious that you're not a good fit in this organization. Doesn't have to mean that you are the problem though.

So you really only have three options, find a new job, stay in the job but conform and submit or try freelancing. If you tried the latter, you might discover some insights into the value of less creative peoples work. The creative person needs loyal, 'boring' people to make their ideas come true.

Excellent advice there!

[scorecard]

You have just started working for 2 months only and took 3 days of medical leave already. Bosses are bosses. Even when you are really sick, bosses still don't like staff to be absent from work. At my workplace, sick leave is unpaid if it's within the 3 months probation period. You should start building good relationship with your co-workers; so badmouthing may be lessened. For eg. Buy snacks to share at the office, abit of girlie talk with them. Try to blend in with the rest. Because you are a foreigner, you need extra effort to get accepted.

Meanwhile if you are really unhappy, keep a lookout for other better jobs quietly at the same time. Good luck!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's a simple reality of life:

- Employers (any country / any industry / any level of position / any level of education) select someone and make a job offer, knowing full well that it's a gamble whether the person really has the skills and has the right attitudes, commitment, will work cooperatively, and will be accepted into the team, etc.

- Three days sick, genuine or otherwise/ fair or unfair, raises red flags / puts you on the 'watch list'.

Edited January 18, 2013 by scorecard

[pxlgirl]

Thanks to those who gave some insights and good advice, it is always helpful to get some opinions from the different perspective. As for now, I want to seek for new jobs and see how it turns out.

[Rob8891]

Thanks to those who gave some insights and good advice, it is always helpful to get some opinions from the different perspective. As for now, I want to seek for new jobs and see how it turns out.

Good kuck with your quest. You have attracted a lot of flak in this thread, and have generally dealt with it well. Remember to concentrate on the constructive comments, and don't be dis-heartened by those posters who have too much time on their hands.

I hope all goes well for you.

[pxlgirl]

I'm well aware of the tone on here. However, the people with too much time on their hands don't know me in rl (and I'm sure their big mouth would shrink if they did), so I don't take the insults personally.

[joorakee]

smart people get accommodation as close to their work as possible. makes life much easier.

In a city like Krung Thep you basically have two options:

1) to live in the vicinity of the company/school you work for (10-20 minutes on foot),

2) to live close to one BTS station and work close to another.

The third option might be commuting to work by motorbike.

Getting stuck in a traffic jam every day is a waste of time, which smart people try to avoid.

[joorakee]

smart people get accommodation as close to their work as possible. makes life much easier.

And what if the employer relocates?

Then you can relocate, too (or change your employer). One of the reasons why renting is often better than buying an apartment.

[joorakee]

Extrapolating from the OP's posts, it appears her salary is 30,000 gross, perhaps 27,000 net.

For Westerners working anywhere in the world, this is a very low-paid job. Even for a TEFL teacher working in Bangkok, this is low-paid. There is no way to get around it, this is really low-paid work.

I wonder how one can obtain a work permit and an appropriate visa for a job paid 30k THB/month except for the education sector.

Regardless of the WP issue, I think I would demand at least 50k if I had to work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Even if you can live (meaning survive) on 30k, you need some funds for entertainment, travels, etc., apart from having to put something away for a rainy day.

[utalkin2me]

I think you, and many other people actually, have trouble just turning off emotionally and earning money. That is why you go to work, people lose sight of that. I always hear people say things like they do their job because they love it and all that. BS! Do your job, get paid, done. If you love something, it CAN be related to your job, but ideally you'd be working on that in your spare time.

Seriously, just turn off. Try it. You are there for money, don't get emotional. The overtime issue should solve itself if you follow my advice. You should never work if you aren't getting paid. It is really that simple. If you lose your job because you wont work without pay, well, I guess that is up to you if you are willing to work for nothing or not. I'd lose it. Would you work for a couple hours every week selling tom yam for free?

Edited January 21, 2013 by utalkin2me

[joorakee]

Is your situation really very much different from 99% of the people in employment in any country. And by the way you could perhaps remember that a very very large percenatge of the workforce in all countries hate their jobs, often have limited options, etc., and continue to drag themselves to work every day, perhaps even with a boring commute, so they can eat.

There are plenty of losers all over the world, but why do we have to compare ourselves with them?