Embattled Brit Lee Chestnutt Forced To Stay In Thailand

[Para]

No - it wasnt the trial judge, it was the Chief Judge (as in top judge for the courts) in a private meeting during the 2nd day of the trial. In fact the trial judges stated that this discussion is not on record and the decision will in no way affect the trial. The 3 trial judges were not present in the room during the meeting.

Ouch!

Sounds like 'Thai rak Thai' for a slice of the money.

Did his lawyer ever bring this in in court during the trial?

[Remix4]

No - it wasnt the trial judge, it was the Chief Judge (as in top judge for the courts) in a private meeting during the 2nd day of the trial. In fact the trial judges stated that this discussion is not on record and the decision will in no way affect the trial. The 3 trial judges were not present in the room during the meeting.

Ouch!

Sounds like 'Thai rak Thai' for a slice of the money.

Did his lawyer ever bring this in in court during the trial?

Never mentioned again! Although I must admit it does sound rather dodgy

[Para]

Just my opinion but if this had been taken away from the local courts to BKK it would of been over a lot sooner as the 'old boy' network would have trouble reaching that far.

I also think Lee is pretty close to this being resolved as they missed the 30 day appeal window to either lodge the appeal or ask for an extension. The supreme court thing is a last attempt to scare him. The case can not go from the criminal court straight to the supreme court bypassing the appeal courts just because they didn't lodge the appeal in time.

[midas]

No - it wasnt the trial judge, it was the Chief Judge (as in top judge for the courts) in a private meeting during the 2nd day of the trial. In fact the trial judges stated that this discussion is not on record and the decision will in no way affect the trial. The 3 trial judges were not present in the room during the meeting.

Ouch!

Sounds like 'Thai rak Thai' for a slice of the money.

Did his lawyer ever bring this in in court during the trial?

Never mentioned again! Although I must admit it does sound rather dodgy

I have encountered this kind of thing when I accompanied a friend to a civil trial in Pattaya about three years ago. My friend was the plaintiff and he was suing a property developer to get his money back after the developer had failed to build a house to proper standards. I read all the notes and he had what I considered a strong case.

The judge called everyone into a side room ( but the developer wasnt there ) and advised my friends lawyer that he should settle because the property developer in question was known to be a dangerous person when he was angry. I was mortified. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what was going on.

Edited January 17, 2013 by midas

[moonbarman]

Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court.

And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right?

Regardless if he is Thai or the person pursing the charges is Thai ... most rational people will settle something if it is in their best interest to do so even if it means sucking it up and paying something you don't owe. The other alternative it to suffer greatly for years by not being able to work, not being able to travel and of course spending a hell of a lot more fighting. If what has been reported is true then this surely could have been settled long ago without criminal charges and there have been numerous opportunities to settle since then without any blot on his record while not only cutting his loses but preventing further loses.

But if you would rather make your life miserable because you need to prove some false sense of superiority to Thais (not the OP but you) then I guess you shouldn't complain when your life is miserable. And if you even have further issues if it is a women Thai then I can only hope you find yourself in this position a lot.

Typical nonsense from nisa. I commend this guy for standing up for what he knows is right, and if he has the means to do it then good on him.The Thai courts and especially this "landlord" should be ashamed of themselves.

Agree with you there this landlord is no different than the jet ski scammers trying to extort money from others.

[axact]

So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right?

Sadly yes it the way things work here. The British Embassy WONT get involved. The various charities are also unable to help. Sometimes its actually better being in prison on remand that out on bail but unable to leave the country or work here.

TiT.....

I cannot see how being in a The Monkey House is better that being free but restricted on bail, it just beggars belief you could say that assuming your aware of prison conditions in Thai jails ?

[Para]

I cannot see how being in a The Monkey House is better that being free but restricted on bail, it just beggars belief you could say that assuming your aware of prison conditions in Thai jails ?

OK so you make bail but cant work and don't have anyone to help support you. What do you do for the next 3 years or so till your case is resolved?

I NEVER make assumptions and yes I do know what its like to spend time in a Thai prison.

[PTG]

Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court.

And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right?

Regardless if he is Thai or the person pursing the charges is Thai ... most rational people will settle something if it is in their best interest to do so even if it means sucking it up and paying something you don't owe. The other alternative it to suffer greatly for years by not being able to work, not being able to travel and of course spending a hell of a lot more fighting. If what has been reported is true then this surely could have been settled long ago without criminal charges and there have been numerous opportunities to settle since then without any blot on his record while not only cutting his loses but preventing further loses.

But if you would rather make your life miserable because you need to prove some false sense of superiority to Thais (not the OP but you) then I guess you shouldn't complain when your life is miserable. And if you even have further issues if it is a women Thai then I can only hope you find yourself in this position a lot.

I agree, when a bad man tries to extort you, you should roll over and pay up.

[Nisa]

First of all -- I am sure it has cost more for him and his partner in money then than 500,000 (a unverified number posted by someone who claims to know info and clearly is siding with tenant) to live here 3.5 years and to fight the case not including the problems with not being able to work during this time or leave the country and the nightmare it has caused the families.

But no I don't have proof the landlord would settle just like we don't have proof of anything about this case but given the expenses of taking a matter to court and given it may be a weak case (if that is the reason charges have been dismissed) and the fact he met with the defendants to discuss settlement logic dictates he would have settled for less ... then add to the fact he could have tried to settle since the case has been ongoing and that 1/2 the case is already gone (again according to a poster here) and all that remains is the criminal complaint by the landlord it seems the landlord would take compensation over only having expenses out of this ordeal.

But of course we don't know if the landlord would settle but can only use some reasonable logic based on reports of an incident that doesn't have much logic for continuing .... By your focusing on this one comment and my reply to it, I hoped I have helped you to further avoid the obvious point that the tenant should have settled this by now given the costs both financially, to his family, his career, his ability to travel as well as a possible criminal record in Thailand.

Edit: Excluding court costs and assuming his and his partner have been able to survive on combined expenses of 20,000 a month then they have already cost them 600,000 in living expenses alone the last 3.5 years and they say it could go on another 5+ years if the landlord wins the latest appeal to not have the charges dismissed.

Nisa your ignorance of Thai law is now becoming boring.

Once Lee Chestnutt was dumped into the court legal system there is now way out till the court says.

Don't you think for a second he would of chosen to pay it off given the chance its not up to him as he is under the courts jurisdiction.

This is Thailand but even in the west this can be resolved out of court ... victim doesn't testify or drops charges in a case like this is over but get a clue and realize this is Thailand - If the landlord doesn't want to press charges then there is no case -- in fact it has been made crystal clear it is the landlord who has been appealing and not police or prosecutors. In Thailand you can bring a criminal case against somebody without the police.. The landlord filed the charges when they refused to settle or pay and at any time after that he can withdraw them. You really need to stop pretending you know what you are talking about when you clearly don't.

But don't let ignorance stand in the way of what it is you want to believe.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Nisa

[Para]

This is Thailand -- Get a clue - If the landlord doesn't want to press charges then there is no case -- in fact it is the landlord who has been appealing.. The landlord filed the charges when they refused to settle or pay and at any time after that he can withdraw them. You really need to stop pretending you know what you are talking about when you clearly don't.

But don't let ignorance stand in the way of what it is you want to believe.

I bow to your superior knowledge of this case and of Thai law in general Nisa.

I like your Avatar very fitting.....

[khaowong1]

I wonder how much pain and money this has cost his mom and dad to support him these years and for him to keep this case going vs. how much the furniture would have cost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

I'm going to hazard a guess that his mom and dad stand behind him in his efforts to clear himself.. I'm betting that they are the ones who taught him to stand his ground and not plead guilty if your not, under any circumstances. It's a matter of principle. It would also appear that the landlord hasn't been able to prove his case, and now it's a matter of face for him or her.

[Arkady]

I can believe that the house was unfurnished. Thai landlords like to give you a separate lease for rental of furniture because the tax on that is less. He might have just been just told by the estate agent this was normal practice and signed without worrying there was no furniture or perhaps the agent or previous tenant had moved it away, if there ever was any.

It is not really clear whether he was acquitted in the court of first instance or the charges were dropped. I guess he was a acquitted as I don't see any way of appealing a decision to drop charges and once the charges are dropped the accused should be free to do.

It is a good example of the lack of rule of law in Thailand and how influential people can abuse what passes for a justice system. The charge of theft has been dropped because presumably there was absolutely no evidence and no basis for appeal. The charge of criminal damage is more nebulous and subjective and that must be why they have appealed that one. Clearly no civilised jurisdiction should permit such a frivolous criminal case to be filed in the first place let alone appealed.

I hope more details are publicised about the plaintiffs in this case and warnings are issued not to rent accommodation from them or others like them and not to rent non-existent furniture. You can be sure the British Embassy has not bothered to issue any strong protests on behalf their citizen.

[Nisa]

Interesting regarding his parents need to support him these last years because he is unable to work...

According to his LinkedIn page (now cannot view) and his Facebook (https://www.facebook...ee.chestnutt.14) .. this is his company http://www.designchemical.com/

Owner/WebDeveloper at

Design Chemical

Studied Chemical and Process Engineering at

University of Newcastle upon Tyne

In a Relationship

Knows English, Indonesian, Melayu

His recent posts on his Google page (https://plus.google....375301897/posts) provides a link to a story (http://wpmu.org/jque...s-menu-plugins/) of somebody reviewing some of his company's plugins and he appears to thank the writer for the review at the end ...

Comments (3) Lee Chestnutt #June 25th, 2012 @ 3:55 pm Hi, Thanks for the review of our menus

You can also see right on the company's blog page he has been active in the company within the last month (http://www.designche...jquery-isotope/)

Lee 2012 Dec 30 at 10:19 pm Hi, Pinterest dont update their public feeds immediately.

A pic from the company web page showing a screen shot of a linkedin page listing him as owner ...:

http://www.designche...k-tabs-plugins/

Edited January 18, 2013 by Nisa

[Remix4]

It is not really clear whether he was acquitted in the court of first instance or the charges were dropped. I guess he was a acquitted as I don't see any way of appealing a decision to drop charges and once the charges are dropped the accused should be free to do.

They were acquitted in the court of first instance of both charges & the appeal court upheld the first court's verdict.

[canman]

Interesting regarding his parents need to support him these last years because he is unable to work...

According to his LinkedIn page (now cannot view) and his Facebook (https://www.facebook...ee.chestnutt.14) .. this is his company http://www.designchemical.com/

Owner/WebDeveloper at

Design Chemical

Studied Chemical and Process Engineering at

University of Newcastle upon Tyne

In a Relationship

Knows English, Indonesian, Melayu

His recent posts on his Google page (https://plus.google....375301897/posts) provides a link to a story (http://wpmu.org/jque...s-menu-plugins/) of somebody reviewing some of his company's plugins and he appears to thank the writer for the review at the end ...

Comments (3) Lee Chestnutt #June 25th, 2012 @ 3:55 pm Hi, Thanks for the review of our menus

You can also see right on the company's blog page he has been active in the company within the last month (http://www.designche...jquery-isotope/)

Lee 2012 Dec 30 at 10:19 pm Hi, Pinterest dont update their public feeds immediately.

A pic from the company web page showing a screen shot of a linkedin page listing him as owner ...:

http://www.designche...k-tabs-plugins/

Great work there Nisa; now he can also be prosecuted for working illegally.

[juggernaut]

Lee Chestnutt EXPOSED! Great work Nisa, you have unravelled the biggest coverup this side of Lance Armstrong.

Very broad brushstrokes you are painting with there mate. According to his LinkedIn page, he finished up with Design Chemical in 2009. Maybe they couldn't be bothered setting up a new account so staff continued using his to administer/publish on their website. Happens all the time. In fact I am doing it right now.

I dunno, you seem to be trying very hard to back yourself up?

[Nisa]

Interesting regarding his parents need to support him these last years because he is unable to work...

According to his LinkedIn page (now cannot view) and his Facebook (https://www.facebook...ee.chestnutt.14) .. this is his company http://www.designchemical.com/

Owner/WebDeveloper at

Design Chemical

Studied Chemical and Process Engineering at

University of Newcastle upon Tyne

In a Relationship

Knows English, Indonesian, Melayu

His recent posts on his Google page (https://plus.google....375301897/posts) provides a link to a story (http://wpmu.org/jque...s-menu-plugins/) of somebody reviewing some of his company's plugins and he appears to thank the writer for the review at the end ...

Comments (3) Lee Chestnutt #June 25th, 2012 @ 3:55 pm Hi, Thanks for the review of our menus

You can also see right on the company's blog page he has been active in the company within the last month (http://www.designche...jquery-isotope/)

Lee 2012 Dec 30 at 10:19 pm Hi, Pinterest dont update their public feeds immediately.

A pic from the company web page showing a screen shot of a linkedin page listing him as owner ...:

http://www.designche...k-tabs-plugins/

Great work there Nisa; now he can also be prosecuted for working illegally.

I wouldn't worry too much about this because clearly being the man of principles he is and the fact he and his family brought this to the press .... I am assume the reports that he is unable to work, has a near 40,000 baht over stay to pay (when the max is 20k) and his parents claims of needing to support him because he can't work are probably reporting errors

Edited January 18, 2013 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Lee Chestnutt EXPOSED! Great work Nisa, you have unravelled the biggest coverup this side of Lance Armstrong.

Very broad brushstrokes you are painting with there mate. According to his LinkedIn page, he finished up with Design Chemical in 2009. Maybe they couldn't be bothered setting up a new account so staff continued using his to administer/publish on their website. Happens all the time. In fact I am doing it right now.

I dunno, you seem to be trying very hard to back yourself up?

And the staff are using his name on other sites too to comment about product reviews and they have control over his Facebook account too -- not to mention his Linkedin page stated this as his present job when this story first came out (but be interested to see the link that now shows him leaving in 09). But yes surely the staff at an IT company would be representing themselves as the former owner to potential clients because somebody didn't ... why bother ... clearly you are going to extreme irrationality to act as if he is an angel when common sense, giving the information available, would lead rational minds to believe he and the landlord both have some issues and are both being stubborn to their own detriment but sadly this guy is the one who has suffered the most and who has the most to lose.

[Nisa]

The landlord is a high-ranking police officer. The accused, is not free of blame, as he is wanted in connection with other incidents in Thailand, but those are civil matters, not criminal. I have no sympathy for this guy.

Any links that can be shared regarding this or is it just more "inside info" where any request for links will be ignored such as what Remix has posted?

[I Like Thai]

Para you are 100% correct!

The only option offered by the court to the accused at the start of the trial (by the Chief Judge) was - plead guilty, pay 500,000 THB and maybe receive a suspended sentence as opposed to jail. Not an option!

The plaintiff was asked by the court to lower the amount he demanded - he refused!

It is not the plaintiffs decision to drop a court case.

Remix4 are you sure you have this right? The trial judge 'offered' Chestnutt that?

dam_n thats screwed up. Its not the judges decision or position to offer a deal like that he has to listen to the case and judge on its merits. Chestnutt chose to fight the charge in the first case.

Sounds like the (ex)police landlord the the judge have a connection and tried to squeeze your friend IMO.

It sounds like the judge merely laid out the charges against him and asked if he was pleading Guilty or Not Guilty. Isn't that standard practice in most courts worldwide. The judge also tried to find if a plea bargain was an option. Doesn't seem out of the ordinary either.

[LaoPo]

@ Nisa

I wonder why you are so "bluddy" fanatic to prove your point of view and trying to convince all other posters that your view is the only correct one ?

Sit back a little and watch the case unfold; if you continue like this you will be a prisoner of your own tunnel views.

Edited January 18, 2013 by LaoPo

[Nisa]

@ Nisa

I wonder why you are so "bluddy" fanatic to prove your point of view and trying to convince all other posters that your view is the only correct one ?

Sit back a little and watch the case unfold; if you continue like this you will be a prisoner of your own tunnel views.

What is my point of view that you believe I am pushing on everyone? And how often in Thailand do you get to watch a case unfold?

[LaoPo]

@ Nisa

I wonder why you are so "bluddy" fanatic to prove your point of view and trying to convince all other posters that your view is the only correct one ?

Sit back a little and watch the case unfold; if you continue like this you will be a prisoner of your own tunnel views.

What is my point of view that you believe I am pushing on everyone? And how often in Thailand do you get to watch a case unfold?

Take a deep breath and start reading your own posts from the beginning...slowly and with attention.

You might be surprised about your own vision.

[Thaddeus]

@ Nisa

I wonder why you are so "bluddy" fanatic to prove your point of view and trying to convince all other posters that your view is the only correct one ?

Sit back a little and watch the case unfold; if you continue like this you will be a prisoner of your own tunnel views.

What is my point of view that you believe I am pushing on everyone? And how often in Thailand do you get to watch a case unfold?

Take a deep breath and start reading your own posts from the beginning...slowly and with attention.

You might be surprised about your own vision.

Unlikely, even if and when it transpires that she is wrong, in her own mind she'll still be right.

[Para]

@Nisa I think you deserve a post devoted to you.

Your tenacity at 'outing' Lee Chestnutt goes beyond a dogs love for a bone and has more passion than a jilted lover seeking revenge. Your understanding of this case it seems is better that the accused and your grasp of Thai law exceeds that of most lawyers. You have the time and patients to spend on tracking this scoundrel Chestnutt that would shame a Sunday tabloid reporter!

Whilst lesser mortals would of skulked off to liked their battered ego's you come back time and time again with a superhuman ability to deflect all rational and logical criticizem against you.

Your determination to prove your point embodies all that defines today's forums. You are not some prepubescent boy hiding behind a keyboard nor are you some wanna be internet Mafia. No sir you are an elite warrior slaying mere mortals post after post.

Nissa I applaud you!

[Para]

It sounds like the judge merely laid out the charges against him and asked if he was pleading Guilty or Not Guilty. Isn't that standard practice in most courts worldwide. The judge also tried to find if a plea bargain was an option. Doesn't seem out of the ordinary either.

The way I read it the trial had started and had the 3 judges appointed to it. Chestnutt was then taken aside but a non trial judge and 'offered the deal' outside of the trial its self.

Maybe I got it wrong.....

[Nisa]

@Nisa I think you deserve a post devoted to you.

Your tenacity at 'outing' Lee Chestnutt goes beyond a dogs love for a bone and has more passion than a jilted lover seeking revenge. Your understanding of this case it seems is better that the accused and your grasp of Thai law exceeds that of most lawyers. You have the time and patients to spend on tracking this scoundrel Chestnutt that would shame a Sunday tabloid reporter!

Whilst lesser mortals would of skulked off to liked their battered ego's you come back time and time again with a superhuman ability to deflect all rational and logical criticizem against you.

Your determination to prove your point embodies all that defines today's forums. You are not some prepubescent boy hiding behind a keyboard nor are you some wanna be internet Mafia. No sir you are an elite warrior slaying mere mortals post after post.

Nissa I applaud you!

Info was already out there on another forum (not to mention he himself made the info available to the world) and what do you mean I outed him? He and his parents have claimed he cannot work and they are supporting him ... they went out of their way to contact the press and make these statements. Do you mean I outed him as possibly being dishonest to everyone who has read or viewed the stories of the case they have put out there? Would I be outing him too if I discovered and posted info about how he could leave the country during the trial if he posted bail too?

Edited January 19, 2013 by Nisa

[simon43]

And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared

Several years ago in Thailand, I was accused of a criminal act that I totally denied. But once you are accused and the charge registered, then you are blacklisted from leaving the country and are not allowed to work until the charge is resolved. Your visa renewals are at the whim of the immigration department, who can decide to extend or not to extend your visa for a few months, and can name the fee for that renewal.

Bear in mind that one is theoretically innocent until proven guilty....

In my case, the case dragged on for many months, with me unable to leave the country and unable to earn a wage. I had to finally cave in and settle out of court to a charge that I still totally denied.

Even after the case was completely settled, it still took 3 months to get my name removed from the blacklist computer so that I could leave the country.

It was after this personal experience of the corruption of some Thai police officers and officials that I resigned from my 6 years of volunteer work as a Tourist Police Officer and made long-term plans to relocate my businesses to Myanmar - a country where I now work.

Simon

[Remix4]

It sounds like the judge merely laid out the charges against him and asked if he was pleading Guilty or Not Guilty. Isn't that standard practice in most courts worldwide. The judge also tried to find if a plea bargain was an option. Doesn't seem out of the ordinary either.

The way I read it the trial had started and had the 3 judges appointed to it. Chestnutt was then taken aside but a non trial judge and 'offered the deal' outside of the trial its self.

Maybe I got it wrong.....

Para - yes you assumed correctly.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Remix4

[jackr]

For those who don't understand why he doesn't give in, he's a Briton (an 'islander') with a pair of taters. Doubtful he's to blame as he had the chance to settle, and the evidence suggests it's all fabricated in any case. While easy to denigrate the system, this is all about a pig of a man bigging himself up ultimately trying to not lose face now he realises any perceived influence he may have is not worth a dam_n in court. Though easy to say from the outside, you've come this far chap, I say screw him, don't give him an out and look after your own karma. You'd need to watch your back after, but, as subsequent loss of face causes puerile natives into seeking revenge. All very sad.