Debt Blacklisting 'unconstitutional'

[webfact]

Debt blacklisting 'unconstitutional'

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The People's Rights and Liberty Protection Organisation has lodged a petition with the Ombudsman's Office against National Credit Bureau Co, accusing it of violating the constitutional rights of more than 20 million people placed on the firm's blacklist over debts owed to financial institutions.

The group, led by Veerasak Uppatham, wants the Ombudsman to rule on whether the 2002 Credit Information Business Act violates the Constitution by authorising the company to place people's credit ratings on a blacklist, preventing them from obtaining credit and loans from financial institutions.

The law might violate Article 43 of the Constitution, which guarantees freedom of doing business, Veerasak said.

The names of many people who fell into business difficulties after the 1997 financial crisis remain on National Credit Bureau Co's blacklist.

Many others whose businesses collapsed in the wake of the disastrous flooding in 2011 were put on the blacklist and would not be able to obtain any more credit to continue their business, he said.

A lot of people were put on the blacklist after falling behind on their credit-card payments, Veerasak said, adding that the list also includes more than 10 million farmers who could not repay their debts on time.

The credit-rating company's actions have forced millions of people to rely on informal financial sources or even illegal loan providers. Therefore, the credit bureau is hurting the economy, he said.

Chalermsak Chantim, secretary of the Ombudsman's Office, said he would process the appeal for the Ombudsman's consideration as soon as possible.

-- The Nation 2013-01-19

[Moruya]

20 million!

[Chao Lao Beach]

"A lot of people were put on the blacklist after falling behind on their credit-card payments, Veerasak said, adding that the list also includes more than 10 million farmers who could not repay their debts on time."

I am not sure how true it is, but I was once told that the real reason for the credit cards going to the poor farmers is so they knew they would have issues in repaying them and then the connected wealthier people can go in and buy their land cheap when they need cash quick. Maybe paranoid people, I don't know but it has a bit of merit to it after seeing the famous rice scam scheme !!!! Anyway, time to turn off Thai news

[OzMick]

With rare exceptions, I have found that repaying debts as agreed is "un-Thai".

[Rooo]

That must be in the Archives as Topic Of The Year.

[Robby nz]

20 million----------------------------Thats nearly a third of the population.

And what proportion of farmers is 10 million?

[dcutman]

That must be in the Archives as Topic Of The Year.

Or sensationalized topic of the year more like.

[harrry]

Isn't a credit report a sort of Criminal Defamation here as even though it is true it adversly affects the person.

Edited January 19, 2013 by harrry

[noitom]

As another person pointed out, It wouldn't be beyond scope to think it was a wealthy investor class tactic to identify "troubled" land owners who are on the blacklist in order to approach them with an"offer" for their land.

[noitom]

With rare exceptions, I have found that repaying debts as agreed is "un-Thai".

Exactly! Thais don't repay any debt business or friendly. They never intended to when the "deal" was struck and they never do. I once had a high Thai management person tell me - "what the contract was supposed to mean was....."

Edited January 19, 2013 by noitom

[WhizBang]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

[Thait Spot]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

I expected the worst on the few occasions where a member of the family needed help but I have always been paid back in full and on time.

One loan I made was to an uncle who was having huge issues when his wife had a stroke and was paralysed. I lent him money on condition that he pay me back in labour as I needed my land cleared and planted. Worked out for both of us.

[xen]

A good deal of the time when asked for a loan of money it is to repay other loans and who gets repaid is based on a who has the biggest stick !

[cup-O-coffee]

While I agree the temptation is strong to slam the principles of Thais who fail to pay back their loans, I do call attention to the lending institutions being greedy about giving away those loans for next to nothing and with rarely any validation on the information that is put on those applications. Thais are notorious for falsifying information on legal documents, as well and failing to investigate said information out of pure incompetence..

So, in my view, there is just as much fault with the lending institutions as it is with the ones who are not paying back; for whatever reason, legitimate or not.

[RubbaJohnny]

The incongruity I see here is between consumption and income.

Like USA folks in my village want the latest consumer electrics,TVs ,Tablets and flatscreens.

Te prime source of debt is the shiny new 4x4 which few people in S Europe could afford.

This is amplified by the high price of vehicles and farmers pledging land/crops so their kids can have this stuff.

I see no likely change the self sufficiency economy is at total odds with TV pushing consumption.

I make do with old banger and only pleasure at start of the week as the poet proscribed Sic Transit ,Gloria Monday !

[Pib]

Now I know why Thai's smile so much....or at least about a third of the population....happiness is knowing you don't pay back borrowed money (unless it's owed to a loan shark).

[MEL1]

The general Thai thinks access to money is similar to access to tamarind; easy and continuous.

Responsibility, when it comes to meeting payback deadlines? That doesn't matter. They got what they wanted, and when they needed it.

To shirk responsibility, and be placed on a blacklist happens in every country worldwide. Why should Thailand be any different, especially when it comes to credit cards?

If you can't afford to pay back when you are due to, then you should implement the responsibility of not borrowing in the very first place.

I have little sympathy for the majority. I do, however, have sympathy for those whose businesses were destroyed by the floods.

Nevetheless, even there, if you are a business owner, no matter how large or small, it is within your own interest to get yourself insured.

Maybe this blacklist will keep a few more SUVs off the road, and lead to less road deaths, keep some children without the latest gadgets and lead to more reading and creative play, and keep the obesity trend, resulting from fast foods, to a minimum.

Personally, I'm all for it. Thais need to learn to take responsibility for long term planning, and not getting what 'they think they need in the now'.

-mel.

[simple1]

Hasn't the village micro lending initiative contributed a lot to this issue? The scheme’s outstanding loan portfolio totalled US$4.9 billion in 2011 e.g. Villagers are eligible by residency to take out a loan, typically limited to 20,000 baht ($656) without collateral. More info at http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2013/01/microfinance-thailand

[MEL1]

Hasn't the village micro lending initiative contributed a lot to this issue? The scheme’s outstanding loan portfolio totalled US$4.9 billion in 2011 e.g. Villagers are eligible by residency to take out a loan, typically limited to 20,000 baht ($656) without collateral. More info at http://www.economist...inance-thailand

Maybe, but there's a large difference beteen 'eligible' and 'mandatory'!

-mel.

[Mudcrab]

While I agree the temptation is strong to slam the principles of Thais who fail to pay back their loans, I do call attention to the lending institutions being greedy about giving away those loans for next to nothing and with rarely any validation on the information that is put on those applications. Thais are notorious for falsifying information on legal documents, as well and failing to investigate said information out of pure incompetence..

So, in my view, there is just as much fault with the lending institutions as it is with the ones who are not paying back; for whatever reason, legitimate or not.

Don't they call them low doc loans in the west?

NANI's ....no assets no income

which started the GFC I believe

Edited January 19, 2013 by Mudcrab

[renrut salohcin]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

You know the wrong type of Thais if you really believe that nonsense.

[thaicbr]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

You know the wrong type of Thais if you really believe that nonsense.

Then it would seem that many of us "know the wrong type of Thais"

sent from my Q6

[Phuket Stu]

With rare exceptions, I have found that repaying debts as agreed is "un-Thai".

Indeed, it is no wander the banks here have so many fees, offer such low interest rates and yet have very low wages to pay out. Just image how many debt are not paid back !!!

[moe666]

Along with the rice scam and the up coming debt crisis thailand will have 1996 all over again. If a Thai has income of 10,000baht a month he/she qualifies for a 1 million baht loan

[BEVUP]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

Exactly right

they borrow on the fact that the money they just got will pay back the other money lent

One big circle, & thats why their still working when 70 yr old

& one more aspect of this is that you as a farang would be last on the list since you have plenty of money

I see no problem as to black listing no different to western countries doing credit checks

We all know here in Thai they just keep swaping till they get

[jackspratt]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

You know the wrong type of Thais if you really believe that nonsense.

Then it would seem that many of us "know the wrong type of Thais"

Sure does.

Fortunately, many of us (including myself) know the "right type of Thais", and have no problem getting repaid in full, and on time.

But that sort of information isn't generally welcome by a lot of TV'ers, because it doesn't give them a chance to have whinge. They want to be able generalise about the Thais, and how bad/dishonest/feckless they all (yes, all 68 million of them) are.

Edited January 20, 2013 by jackspratt

[tomross46]

If a person is on any list and does want it to be a problem, they change their name.

[chooka]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

I expected the worst on the few occasions where a member of the family needed help but I have always been paid back in full and on time.

One loan I made was to an uncle who was having huge issues when his wife had a stroke and was paralysed. I lent him money on condition that he pay me back in labour as I needed my land cleared and planted. Worked out for both of us.

"Your Land" You lucky bastard

[philw]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

I expected the worst on the few occasions where a member of the family needed help but I have always been paid back in full and on time.

One loan I made was to an uncle who was having huge issues when his wife had a stroke and was paralysed. I lent him money on condition that he pay me back in labour as I needed my land cleared and planted. Worked out for both of us.

"Your Land" You lucky bastard

The sourness and bitterness is tangible...........

How sad.

[EyesWideOpen]

When my GF tells me the family wants to borrow some money, I say to her... 'You mean they want me to give them some money.' She gets kinna sheepish after that, but doesn't deny it.

No Thai I know has ever repaid a debt. 'Can I borrow 1000 baht. I will give back next week/month.' Yeah, right. Not gonna happen (even if they have money to repay).

I expected the worst on the few occasions where a member of the family needed help but I have always been paid back in full and on time.

One loan I made was to an uncle who was having huge issues when his wife had a stroke and was paralysed. I lent him money on condition that he pay me back in labour as I needed my land cleared and planted. Worked out for both of us.

"Your Land" You lucky bastard

The sourness and bitterness is tangible...........

How sad.

Psstttt....Chooka was making a joke, as the land being cleared actually belonged to the guy's wife.........

But back to topic. I am sure this thread will send shock waves throughout credit reporting agencies in America,

with the concept that reporting failure to make payments is somehow unconstitutional .

Side note: I must be moving in the wrong Thai circle of friends as well, as any Thai I ever loaned money to did not pay me back. Maybe I need to have more hiso friends? No wait, that does not make sense. Hiso friends would not ever need to borrow money from me.

Edited January 20, 2013 by EyesWideOpen