Thaksin Announces House Dissolution, New Election

[Krit]

Take up the White Man's burden--

Type here the best ye breed--

Go find yourself in exile

To serve the Kingdom's need;

They vote in deepest darkness,

The fluttered folk and wild--

His new-caught, sullen farmers,

Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--

In patience to abide,

To veil the threat of terror

And check the show of pride;

By clever speech and manner,

An hundred times made plain,

He seeks the Shin Corp's profit

And Ample Rich will gain.

[haha]

I just love this photo of Thaksin taken yesterday by AP. It really sums it up for me. On April 2nd Thailand will be returning "the devil it knows" to office. I reckon he's saving the middle finger for the Chinese-Thai civil servant class..who've lost their privileged 10% skimming rights to Thaksin's Chinese-Thai business buddies..They can rally all they like..they've lost their power, influence, access to the treasury, and their credibility too. I'm heartbroken for them..no, really..really..

so, who are you?

somehow, I get this feeling you are not thai, or farang.

I get the feeling you want to start some trouble.

muslim-thai, spoiled brat?

[TAWP]

haha>> Exactly what is your purpose, besides stiring up truble in this thread?

Since I hardly think you meant that in a nice way.

if everyone could stop with the obious insults (granted that most of them comes from a handfull of Thaiksin-fans), this thread will live on much longer.

Edited February 25, 2006 by TAWP

[bulmercke]

The boys to get the job done......

Thaksin......awk pai

Thaksin......awk pai

Thaskin......awk pai

[thaigene2]

I just love this photo of Thaksin taken yesterday by AP. It really sums it up for me. On April 2nd Thailand will be returning "the devil it knows" to office. I reckon he's saving the middle finger for the Chinese-Thai civil servant class..who've lost their privileged 10% skimming rights to Thaksin's Chinese-Thai business buddies..They can rally all they like..they've lost their power, influence, access to the treasury, and their credibility too. I'm heartbroken for them..no, really..really..

so, who are you?

somehow, I get this feeling you are not thai, or farang.

I get the feeling you want to start some trouble.

muslim-thai, spoiled brat?

Farang and certainly not a Thaksin fan either..and yes, I'm always looking for trouble.. Know where I can find any?

[gurkle]

Why do all the anti-Thaksin people love complaining but provide no solutions? To me they represent the vocal MINORITY (aka whiners).

Would you rather have a leader chosen by election or by mob violence?

These seem to be the primary anti-Thaksin arguments, as well as my explanations to their faults:

-"He's buying votes"

Where do you get that from? Even if a poor person gets money under his authority, they are free to change their vote anytime they want.

-"Only the uneducated poor are voting for him"

Why would they choose him over someone else? Anyone else running can promise the same "vote-buying" activities.

-"He's corrupt"

He's a billionaire. He is less likely to be bribed than any other candidate. Who in Thailand has the ability to bribe a billionaire?

-"He's bad for the economy"

Who is better? A massage parlor king? A media giant that wants to overthrow legitimate governments?

-"The middle class wants someone else"

In a democracy, the majority vote gets to choose their leader. What would you rather have? A society where only the rich are allowed to vote?

-"According to the newspaper, Thai people want someone else"

The newspapers write stuff that sell, not that are true. And they generally don't represent the majority, just the whiners who like to blame their situations on others. The # of votes tell which leader Thais really want.

I still find it shocking that the protestors admit they won't accept the results of the election if Thaksin wins. It's getting obvious at this point that they don't respect democracy at all and are only doing this to get PMs that benefit them personally, and could possibly resort to violence to get their way.

[ColPyat]

Why do all the anti-Thaksin people love complaining but provide no solutions? To me they represent the vocal MINORITY (aka whiners).

If you would care to read the relevant threads then you would see that most Thaksin opponents here have far more qualified opnions that what you think. It just gets rather tiring trying to explain our intellectually challenged friends the same point over and over again.

Have a read:

"Thaksin Boasts Tremendous Successes During Five-year Rule":

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59741

or:

"Ample it’s truly not":

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59515

or:

"11 Feb Anti-Thaksin Demonstration Thread":

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59703&st=0

[1Lucky]

Whilst Thaksin may appear to have got the best of the opposition for now (assuming that TRT does indeed win the election, perhaps with a reduced majority) - is there any chance that he will face a challenge for the leadership of TRT? Are there any rules prohibiting this before the election??

[thaigene2]

Whilst Thaksin may appear to have got the best of the opposition for now (assuming that TRT does indeed win the election, perhaps with a reduced majority) - is there any chance that he will face a challenge for the leadership of TRT? Are there any rules prohibiting this before the election??

Good question. I think he could well face a challenge. But probably not until after the election I reckon. That's the way it usually works - no one wants to bight the hand that will lead them into power again. But once victory is secured TRT insiders could really go after him. The question of course is 'would the party gain or lose overall?' It seems that TRT is really just a shell without Thaksin. That's who people are voting for upcountry..it's him. My gut instincts (for what they're worth) tell me that Thaksin supporters like him BECAUSE he's rich and powerful and aren't really bothered by how he came to be that way. Many of them just figure all rich and powerful people are probably corrupt so it's not really an issue with the masses (though of course it should be). It's "Pooyai" phenomenon I guess..Just Wai a bit higher..

[gurkle]

The Democrats may boycott an election.

So if Thailand no longer has elections, will kind of country will this be?

At first I thought this was a lark by a media mogul, but I'm now truly scared for Thailand's future.

[ratcatcher]

Don Vito Corleone the soft-spoken head of the Corleone family..... a reasonable man; a devoted husband and doting father. A man capable of tenderly dancing with his daughter at her wedding; fondling a cat while patiently listening to the importunings of favor seekers; and yet a ruthless man... willing to stop at nothing to get his way...

Thaksin Shinawatra the soft spoken head of the Shinawatra family......an unreasonable man: an obedient husband and doting father. A man capable of tenderly dancing with his wife after their B73billion windfall; fondling a cat while patiently listening to the importunings of favor seekers; and yet, a ruthless man... willing to stop at nothing to get his way.....

I rest my case.

[asd]

The past four months show that the government has not learnt to deal with reality and with the basic virtues. Instead, it relied on tough-handed measures and money politics. In so doing, it brought more problems and political pressure on itself.

[george]

Update:

Opposition parties to boycott election

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Democrat and two smaller political parties have reached an agreement to boycott the election scheduled for April 2.

Key Democrat leaders and members spent six hours earlier in the day to discuss the election plan before deciding against joining the poll, called after Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra dissolved the lower house yesterday amid his political opponents' demand for his resignation.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, an umbrella organisation led by media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul, leading members of the Senates, electricity unionists, student activists, civic groups and Mr Thaksin's former political mentor Chamlong Srimuang, has demanded Mr Thaksin resign citing his lack of legitmacy following the sale of his family's controlling stake in Shin Corp, without paying taxes.

The Democrat and its small allies in the Opposition bloc -- Chart Thai and Mahachon parties -- have scheduled a press conference later this evening to announce their joint stand to boycott the election race.

--Bangkok Post 2006-02-25

[TAWP]

I'm not fully read up on the Thai Constitution, but in theory, could he (Thaksin and TRT) therefor get 100% of the votes (if only registered parties that have said to be 'available' for election are counted as valid vote-recievers) and all the seats in the house?

Guess they better find more MPs.

Edited February 25, 2006 by TAWP

[marquess]

All well and good, providing they all stick to the plan. It would certainly deny Tox legitimacy. And turn up the pressure on him to resign. I live in hope!

[marshbags]

Update:

Opposition parties to boycott election

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Democrat and two smaller political parties have reached an agreement to boycott the election scheduled for April 2.

Key Democrat leaders and members spent six hours earlier in the day to discuss the election plan before deciding against joining the poll, called after Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra dissolved the lower house yesterday amid his political opponents' demand for his resignation.

The People's Alliance for Democracy, an umbrella organisation led by media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul, leading members of the Senates, electricity unionists, student activists, civic groups and Mr Thaksin's former political mentor Chamlong Srimuang, has demanded Mr Thaksin resign citing his lack of legitmacy following the sale of his family's controlling stake in Shin Corp, without paying taxes.

The Democrat and its small allies in the Opposition bloc -- Chart Thai and Mahachon parties -- have scheduled a press conference later this evening to announce their joint stand to boycott the election race.

--Bangkok Post 2006-02-25

I think this is a wait and see situation, taking the continuity of protest and how things develop before the set date, into account.

Just maybe economics could also be coming into play as finacially only th TRT have the war chest required , thanks of course to the questionable activities of a certain Kamoy.

Without the required funds how do you motivate Thai people to vote against him.

Also the time before the date set is not realistic and will cause all sorts of problems apart from his party who i would imagine have been secretly planning for this move for some time before announcing it.

They had the information in advance and would have made sure the time allocated was realistic for there arrangements on such a tight schedule and it certainly favours them/TRT.

As far as it goes from a constitutional point, what are the legal implications should they stick together and by this proposed statement.

The news conference may throw more light on what it,s all about.

Also the centre of all the unrest is about one man and his family and there business ethics, not all TRT members.

They really do need to concentrate on this and never loose sight of what it,s all about, even after the election should it go ahead, no matter what the outcome is.

He decided to hold an election to suit his own needs and not the countries, otherwise he would have resigned in the first place and not shifted the burden onto everyone else.

This could also be a reason why this decision has been taken and shift the onus back where it belongs in the Kamoys lap.

As a further observation wouldn,t all the money that will be used for this election be doing more good financing deserving projects and solving poverty and the obvious consequences of underfunding good needy causes.

In my humble opinion of course.

marshbags

P.S. as an after thought that is relevant.

The time scale is a critical factor not only for what i,ve mentioned but also because it has to be within the 90 days to stop TRT members from leaving the party and still be eligible to stand for another party.

Very cunning and devious is our kamoy in chief as we all know already,

Edited February 25, 2006 by marshbags

[asd]

The People's Alliance for Democracy, an umbrella organisation led by media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul, leading members of the Senates, electricity unionists, student activists, civic groups and Mr Thaksin's former political mentor Chamlong Srimuang, has demanded Mr Thaksin resign citing his lack of legitmacy following the sale of his family's controlling stake in Shin Corp, without paying taxes.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has shown itself in the last two or three weeks to be a well-planned organization. And alongside the anti-Thaksin campaign of the alliance, academics and students have also been taking the prime minister to task.

They want to remind Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra that a sense of right and wrong is an essential quality for a prime minister.

[gurkle]

He decided to hold an election to suit his own needs and not the countries, otherwise he would have resigned in the first place and not shifted the burden onto everyone else.

Since when is an election a bad thing?

Would you rather choose a leader by seeing who can create the largest mobs? Generate the most negative media? Complain the most?

If the majority of people want him to be their leader, then that should be enough - that's what democracy is all about.

If they want someone else, that's fine. But the country's people have a right to choose their own leader, and not have to hand over the choice to a powerful mob that represents the minority.

If this mob wins, Thailand will never be the same again. Once someone sees that a small yet cohesive minority can take over an entire country, we will have constant civil wars or coup de etat attempts (see Philipines). The Nazis are an example of a cohesive minority that were able to take over an entire country (this is not a comparison to the Democrats who I think are actually pretty nice and well-meaning people but meant as an extreme example of what happens when the election process is thwarted). I just want Thailand to preserve a democratic process.

Instead of being pro- or anti- Thaksin, I think people need to choose if they are pro- or anti- democracy.

Edited February 25, 2006 by gurkle

[marshbags]

qurkle,

Your opinion is welcome but since when have the demonstrations/demonstrators done anything that makes them a mob.

This mob as you call it consists of lots of peace loving individuals consisting of/professionals, academics and respectable people from all stations. who are showing there opposition to all the reasons stated again and again without me repeating them.

They are incidently showing there respect for law as it stands and do not want it re written to suit certain situations unlike the Kamoy in chief and his cronies.

It is again all about the Kamoy and his family and people are wanting him out, not an election as that will put him back in power.

Look around you and read up on the situation from day one and perhaps you will learn this and why it is the only solution.

But then again perhaps your loyalty lies somewhere else ?

( i do not have problem with this as it is your democratic right. ) no problem nor personal animosity.

Again i welcome all observations and like you, we all have the right to reply and that,s the kind of democracy Thai,s want, should have also.

Censorship, lets not go down that one sided road as it,s a sore point for Thailand but it,s certainly

a big talking point here is it not.

marshbags

.

Edited February 25, 2006 by marshbags

[pchaweng]

I'm surprised at all of the comments by people that wish to see Thaksin (with an "h" by the way) ousted simply because he's "bad". He's a politician and they're all more or less dirty here, just like just about any other country you can name, democratic or not.

I believe that the real issue is that Thaksin, in addition to being a much more skilled campaigner, also has much, much better ideas about governance and economic development than the opposition.

The Democrats (and Mahachon or Chamlong, for that matter) keep pushing the idea of "good governance" but that's their ONLY idea and while Chuan was regarded and admired as an honest politician, he was also known to be surrounded by many "bad people".

Have the Democrats changed under Abhisit? It doesn't sound like it so far, that don't have any new ideas except mudslinging as far as I can tell (or perhaps better put as "moral rightousness"). That's a hel_l of plan to wrest control of the political system and govern Thailand.

Do they have ideas about how to run and improve Thailand? No, all they have is a track record of tarnished "goodness" and mediocre governance. Do they even have a platform (beyond "he's bad") on which to sway the 85% of Thailand that lives outside of Bangkok?

That's the real reason why these demonstrations will likely turn out to be a storm in a teacup.

Thaksin, on the other hand, created a party with a national appeal, a true party platform and with policies specifically aimed at rural development plus a strategic plan for national economic development in an era when Thailand, like so many countries, is facing intense competition from China. All the comments about money politics are certainly relevant, but he and TRT do deserve credit for advancing Thai political culture and their popularity go beyond simplistic accusations of vote-buying.

If the Democrats, or any other party, are going to beat TRT, they need to be well organized, with better ideas than TRT that will appeal to the entire Thai population. Do they have that? Two elections ago, TRT was the only party with a platform. In the last election the Democrats and Mahachon had platforms that were little more than faint reflections of the TRT platform. Is that the best they can do and if that is, do they deserve to govern Thailand?

It's all well and good to take the "moral high ground", but what's the point if the result is to simply create a political vacuum?

[gurkle]

It is again all about the Kamoy and his family and people are wanting him out, not an election as that will put him back in power.

You reiterate the exact contradiction that the protestors are running into.

If the people really wanted him out, how can he win an election?

If the protestors were really sure that "the people" wanted him out, they wouldn't be scared about having an election where the people's (in other words, the majority versus the highly vocal) true choice would be revealed. (I'll avoid using the term "mob" since it has negative connotations in English but not in Thai)

Edited February 25, 2006 by gurkle

[TAWP]

It is again all about the Kamoy and his family and people are wanting him out, not an election as that will put him back in power.

You reiterate the exact contradiction that the protestors are running into.

If the people really wanted him out, how can he win an election?

If the protestors were really sure that "the people" wanted him out, they wouldn't be scared about having an election where the people's (in other words, the majority versus the highly vocal) true choice would be revealed. (I'll avoid using the term "mob" since it has negative connotations in English but not in Thai)

You are partly confused.

The re-election is due in 60 days, but the 90day rules for listing members of parties effectivly closes any renegade-fractions within TRT to form a platform now (wich they might otherwise do befire a normal election) and even OTHER individuals that might very well be far better has no way in, due to the same rule. Unless they are a part of an established party - and frankly most ofthe parties are part of the problem.

Do you really have to have a choosen replacement even before you point out that the current choice is bad? No, you don't.

Besides, any other chosen figure the protestors might have is VOID now due to the 90day rule.

Do you get what I'm saying?

Edited February 25, 2006 by TAWP

[bulmercke]

He decided to hold an election to suit his own needs and not the countries, otherwise he would have resigned in the first place and not shifted the burden onto everyone else.

Since when is an election a bad thing?

Would you rather choose a leader by seeing who can create the largest mobs? Generate the most negative media? Complain the most?

If the majority of people want him to be their leader, then that should be enough - that's what democracy is all about.

If they want someone else, that's fine. But the country's people have a right to choose their own leader, and not have to hand over the choice to a powerful mob that represents the minority.

If this mob wins, Thailand will never be the same again. Once someone sees that a small yet cohesive minority can take over an entire country, we will have constant civil wars or coup de etat attempts (see Philipines). The Nazis are an example of a cohesive minority that were able to take over an entire country (this is not a comparison to the Democrats who I think are actually pretty nice and well-meaning people but meant as an extreme example of what happens when the election process is thwarted). I just want Thailand to preserve a democratic process.

Instead of being pro- or anti- Thaksin, I think people need to choose if they are pro- or anti- democracy.

gurckle: "The Nazis are an example of a cohesive minority that were able to take over an entire country"

I have pasted below something I posted on the "Is this the beginning of the end for Thaksin" thread a week ago because of it's relevance to your posting.

"In the Reichstag elections of September 1930 the Nazi party jumped from the category of a splinter party on the lunatic fringe into that of a political force to be reckoned with. Six and a half million Germans voted Nazi and made the party the second biggest in the Reichstag.

Less than two years later this popular vote was more than doubled to give the Nazis 230 seats and make it the biggest in the Reichstag. But they never polled half the electorate in a free election. Even after Hitler won the chancellorship the Nazi vote in the election of March 1933 was only 43.9 per cent. But by then figures no longer meant much."

THE NAZI PARTY WAS THE BIGGEST IN THE REICHSTAG.

Hardly a minority!

[tettyan]

Besides, any other chosen figure the protestors might have is VOID now due to the 90day rule.

I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again here. In the event of a snap election, the 90-day rule effectively becomes the "incumbent protection rule."

Talk about unintended consequences. The drafters of the constitution intended this provision to check perennial party-switchers and opportunists like Sanoh. I don't think they ever foresaw the rule having the effect of protecting incumbents.

Edited February 25, 2006 by tettyan

[bulmercke]

Besides, any other chosen figure the protestors might have is VOID now due to the 90day rule.

I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again here. In the event of a snap election, the 90-day rule effectively becomes the "incumbent protection rule."

Talk about unintended consequences. The drafters of the constitution intended this provision to check perennial party-switchers and opportunists like Sanoh. I don't think they ever foresaw the rule having the effect of protecting incumbents.

A very good point tettyan.

In fact, as you say, this 90 day ruling is having exactly the reverse effect - of what it was originally intended to achieve.

Anyway, now that the Democrat party has decided to not contest the election.....this 90 day rule is somewhat meaningless.....

....a bit like the Thai parliamentary process as it stands this evening.....

....IN TATTERS!

However, democracy will continue to work, but outside of parliament.

..... which increasingly appears to be the case now.

(Strange how I found myself listening to John Lennon's 'Power To The People' this evening.)

[Siripon]

He decided to hold an election to suit his own needs and not the countries, otherwise he would have resigned in the first place and not shifted the burden onto everyone else.

Since when is an election a bad thing?

Would you rather choose a leader by seeing who can create the largest mobs? Generate the most negative media? Complain the most?

If the majority of people want him to be their leader, then that should be enough - that's what democracy is all about.

If they want someone else, that's fine. But the country's people have a right to choose their own leader, and not have to hand over the choice to a powerful mob that represents the minority.

If this mob wins, Thailand will never be the same again. Once someone sees that a small yet cohesive minority can take over an entire country, we will have constant civil wars or coup de etat attempts (see Philipines). The Nazis are an example of a cohesive minority that were able to take over an entire country (this is not a comparison to the Democrats who I think are actually pretty nice and well-meaning people but meant as an extreme example of what happens when the election process is thwarted). I just want Thailand to preserve a democratic process.

Instead of being pro- or anti- Thaksin, I think people need to choose if they are pro- or anti- democracy.

So why does Thaksin constantly refuse to debate any of the issues raised by the middle class mob who have no access to nationwide free TV?

If he has nothing to hide why not discuss it?

I'm repeating myself, I know, but 374 MPs,(75% of the total), control of national TV, and you dissolve Parliament!!!

[chownah]

Are you saying that the middle class mob has no access to free TV? What are you saying? I can't make sense of it.

If you believe in democracy then you will applaud his decision to have vote. The opposition has been saying that he no longer represents the views of a majority of the voters....so....let's find out......but no...now they don't want it because they know that their rhetoric is wrong....Toxin does have the support of the majority of the voters....ooops....so I guess the only thing to do now is for their true colors to be shown....they are anti-democratic....thery are for tyranny of the middle class Bangkok resident over the rest of the nation I guess. Maybe I'm wrong though. All you anti toxin people out there helpl to educate me.....who should decide who the next PM should be and who should not be allowed to be PM? It is clear that you do not think that the law should prevail in this matter...so how then?...who then?...you then?

Chownah

Edited February 25, 2006 by chownah

[dan10400]

The People's Alliance for Democracy, an umbrella organisation led by media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul, leading members of the Senates, electricity unionists, student activists, civic groups and Mr Thaksin's former political mentor Chamlong Srimuang, has demanded Mr Thaksin resign citing his lack of legitmacy following the sale of his family's controlling stake in Shin Corp, without paying taxes.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has shown itself in the last two or three weeks to be a well-planned organization. And alongside the anti-Thaksin campaign of the alliance, academics and students have also been taking the prime minister to task.

They want to remind Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra that a sense of right and wrong is an essential quality for a prime minister.

There is one other factor here, the voters themselves and what they actually do.

if nobody shows up to taxsins party, that would be as big a face loser as could be

dished up.

[asd]

It is for these reasons that people have lost faith in Thaksin's leadership.

1. He has been trying to destroy democratic principles by interfering with watchdog agencies established under the constitution to the extent that they are unable to properly fulfil their roles as independent checks and balances on the government.

2. He has been trying to destroy democratic principles by curbing the freedom of expression of the mass media.

3. He has been trying to undermine national security by ordering security officers in the deep South to resort to heavy-handed tactics against Thai Muslims, exacerbating tensions in the region and making the insurgency harder to deal with.

4. He has not respected democratic processes by bypassing parliamenent when initiating talks on free trade agreements with key trading partners. Instead, the government has tried to push through free trade negotiations without taking into consideration the criticism of various concerned parties.

5. He has not been serious in trying to tackle corruption. Thaksin has failed to take serious action against any politician involved in blatant corruption.

6. He has failed to prohibit relatives and ministers from cashing in on state procurement projects.

7. He has tried to use his position to negotiate with foreign governments for the sake of benefiting his business interests.

8. His involvement in shady business deals and tax evasion is questionable.

Would you mine if i want you to add #9 , # 10 , .....

Edited February 25, 2006 by asd

[Anon999]

There is a well known saying about elections. The opposition doesn't win an election the government loses it because people are fed up with them or just want a change. However, if there is no credible opposition then the government will always prevail because the voters feel they have no other option than to stick with the devil they know.

Edited February 25, 2006 by Anon999