American Accused Of Unlawful Encounter With 13 Year Old Girl On Pattaya Beach

[DiNiro]

at 4am she was probably the only one that looked less then 50

Beach Road hookers age in dog years once they get into the trade.

[Naam]

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

Nah, if you spent any amount of time here on tvf you'd quickly realize why no one would ever approach him.

Also, not sure naam walks anywhere. He has plenty of staff to drive him around.

One of his gardeners probably makes more than you did last year.

Sent from my GT-I9100T

both of you are talking rubbish. i was referring to

His crime started when... ...she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

so you think if you are approached by a drug dealer you have committed a crime? and if an underaged whore approaches you then you face prosecution?

give me a break gentlemen and learn how to read and/or to understand simple English! put up or shut up!

Edited February 3, 2013 by Naam

[Naam]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

Explain your statement knowing that the child doesn't need more or less alibi's to be involved in these type of cases.

Or are you confusing with US military rape law : "all thruth or all wrong" ?

learn to read!

[Naam]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

correct! i don't walk Beach Road. neither during daytime nor at night.

[Thorgal]

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

Nah, if you spent any amount of time here on tvf you'd quickly realize why no one would ever approach him.

Also, not sure naam walks anywhere. He has plenty of staff to drive him around.

One of his gardeners probably makes more than you did last year.

Sent from my GT-I9100T

both of you are talking rubbish. i was referring to

His crime started when... ...she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

so you think if you are approached by a drug dealer you have committed a crime? and if an underaged whore approaches you then you face prosecution?

give me a break gentlemen and learn how to read and/or to understand simple English! put up or shut up!

- "if an underaged whore approaches you then you face prosecution" :

Yes, if you go over to a deal...

Lewd and Lascivious is generally defined as conduct that includes entertainment which aims at arousing the libido or primarily sexual sensation, open solicitation for prostitution, or indecent and unlawful exposure of genitalia. In general, the term usually applies to prosecutions for pornography, prostitution, and indecent acts. Lewd and Lascivious Conduct offenses are most serious when the victim is under the age of 16. These most serious types of conduct include exhibition, molestation, battery or sexual conduct around a minor.

- "so you think if you are approached by a drug dealer you have committed a crime ?"

I don't see why you compare mango's with durians when you started a pars pro toto approach of the original topic ? But if you accept his drug deal you should also be convicted as per law.

- give me a break gentlemen and learn how to read and/or to understand simple English!

Both allready done.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Thorgal

[jpinx]

His crime started when he approached her or she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

"or she approached him" = hogwash²!

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

correct! i don't walk Beach Road. neither during daytime nor at night.

On that basis I will put you on <ignore> until you are talking about something of which you have personal experience.

[Spoonman]

Wonder if he had the thought to tell em to sling it for a few moments whilst he got his end wet.

gunna go down for it might as well commit it.

[jpinx]

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

[Spoonman]

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

Speaking of zero knowledge, how do you know he was drunk ?

[jpinx]

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

Speaking of zero knowledge, how do you know he was drunk ?

I don't - but it's not an unreasonable supposition in my opinion - hence the use of brackets around that specific.

It's a shame that people do not understand the basics of written English, but then again - English might not be their first language.

[Nana Cowboy]

so much love for the pedo here. may ROSENTHAL rot in a cell for a good long while to think about what he did and thank his lucky stars he wasn't caught in the usa or england

[spidermike007]

So many "holier-than-thou" responses from guys who are actually saying "There but for the grace of God, go I." This guy was being a bad boy for sure, but no way is it clear that he intentionally picked up a junior. His greatest crime was not getting the ID checked by hotel, police - even a taxi-driver would have put him right.... Who approached who or who spoke first is immaterial - the girl went willingly for a price - he didn't have to strong-arm her or knock her over the head and bundle her into a taxi.

Anyone who has first hand experience of Beach Road will know that you will be approached at all times of day and night in the most casual manner by all styles, ages and sexes - - mostly indeterminable. The wise thing to do is enjoy some banter and move on. This guy was just tempted beyond his limit and didn't take the basic precautions. If he goes to court (he might as well now since his cover is well-blown anyway) the judge just might take the view that it was entrapment of one kind or another and not hit him too hard - at least that way the rednecks in USA will not get their hands on him.

You, like so many others have little understanding of how this works, for an American. The American govt. absolutely has a bug up its butt, when it comes to sex, and especially underage sex. They get full cooperation from the Thai police, and the Thai govt. I said FULL! So, unless you can buy your way out on this end, you ARE FINISHED. Your life is over. The Thai cops get credit for turning someone over to the Americans. One call to the embassy is all it takes! After a 10 year federal prison term, where do you go from there? I am told it takes at least 1,000,000 baht, to buy your way out, on this end, when she is 16 or under. Closer to one million US on the other end, in attorneys fees if you want to have a fighting chance. So, unless you are very rich, very dumb, or just do not care, as a US citizen you had better be super, super careful in these matters.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpinx]

So many "holier-than-thou" responses from guys who are actually saying "There but for the grace of God, go I." This guy was being a bad boy for sure, but no way is it clear that he intentionally picked up a junior. His greatest crime was not getting the ID checked by hotel, police - even a taxi-driver would have put him right.... Who approached who or who spoke first is immaterial - the girl went willingly for a price - he didn't have to strong-arm her or knock her over the head and bundle her into a taxi.

Anyone who has first hand experience of Beach Road will know that you will be approached at all times of day and night in the most casual manner by all styles, ages and sexes - - mostly indeterminable. The wise thing to do is enjoy some banter and move on. This guy was just tempted beyond his limit and didn't take the basic precautions. If he goes to court (he might as well now since his cover is well-blown anyway) the judge just might take the view that it was entrapment of one kind or another and not hit him too hard - at least that way the rednecks in USA will not get their hands on him.

You, like so many others have little understanding of how this works, for an American. The American govt. absolutely has a bug up its butt, when it comes to sex, and especially underage sex. They get full cooperation from the Thai police, and the Thai govt. I said FULL! So, unless you can buy your way out on this end, you ARE FINISHED. Your life is over. The Thai cops get credit for turning someone over to the Americans. One call to the embassy is all it takes! After a 10 year federal prison term, where do you go from there? I am told it takes at least 1,000,000 baht, to buy your way out, on this end, when she is 16 or under. Closer to one million US on the other end, in attorneys fees if you want to have a fighting chance. So, unless you are very rich, very dumb, or just do not care, as a US citizen you had better be super, super careful in these matters.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for the heads-up on USA law. I was assuming that the guy would have a chance of maintaining innocence until proven guilty, but it appears that this is not the case - shame really....

[spidermike007]

Meeeaaiou!!!! You really need to find some true friends I don't drink, some of my friends do, but we are certainly not drinking buddies

Making new friends in Thailand is very difficult because there way more scammers than the decent people and the decent people usually have their own circle or consider anyone they meet as also being a scammer.

All the people i have met in my 11 years here, all been nothing but scammers, who start of to borrow 100 baht and end up trying to live off you(especially if you are doing well)

Please do not project your bad fortune onto an entire nation. I have met nearly a dozen very good friends here, who are straight, honest, honorable, and wonderful as the day is long. There are truly outstanding people who have chosen Thailand as their home. You just have to have the good fortune to meet them. Might I suggest expanding your horizons, or hanging out in different spots. You most likely will not be meeting them in bars!

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thorgal]

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

- Police laws in Thailand are far from being the same as those applied in most western countries for severe crime interventions. Again, I wouldn't blame them so fast.

- The child-victim is under child protection as long as the court made a decision to release her. Quitte impossible to suggest that she had been seen around the same place under influence of drugs the day after the criminal facts. She's supposed to be 13 and can't have the same threatment for her acts as an adult...

- Press (tabloid) released that he has a step-daughter from the same age...( wrong, she's 6 years old ) to send people thinking in a certain direction...

Which way do you want to follow ?

Edited February 3, 2013 by Thorgal

[Spoonman]

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

Speaking of zero knowledge, how do you know he was drunk ?

I don't - but it's not an unreasonable supposition in my opinion - hence the use of brackets around that specific.

It's a shame that people do not understand the basics of written English, but then again - English might not be their first language.

So you justify your blowing of hot air about something of which you have zero knowledge of by putting brackets around it, is English your first language ?

[spidermike007]

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpinx]

There appears to have been several crimes committed during this particular performance. The police were monitoring a girl they KNEW was 13 but failed to take steps to protect her. The girl KNEW she was 13 and continued to solicit -- BTW - I hear she is still at it. Along comes the sacrificial bull with a USA passport and stumbles into the situation without understanding any of it and gets hung out to dry for basically being an (drunken) idiot.

Too many contributors to this thread are blowing hot air about something of which they have zero knowledge. I am vainly waiting for news of what actually happens to the guy - not idle speculation.

- Police laws in Thailand are far from being the same as those applied in most western countries for severe crime interventions. Again, I wouldn't blame them so fast.

- The child-victim is under child protection as long as the court made a decision to release her. Quitte impossible to suggest that she had been seen around the same place under influence of drugs the day after the criminal facts. She's supposed to be 13 and can't have the same threatment for her acts as an adult...

- Press (tabloid) released that he has a step-daughter from the same age...( wrong, she's 6 years old ) to send people thinking in a certain direction...

Which way do you want to follow ?

Does this mean that the police are governed by "police law" whiel the rest of the population has the "law" - or am I reading too much into your wording ? In any event if the child was being monitored by police and community workers of whatever flavour, it is not unreasonable to assume that they have a duty of care - hence the monitoring. In this regard they failed miserably, but was that intentional?

As for the reports of the girl being out on the game again - I do not speak from first hand knowledge, but I have heard in several unconnected quarters that she is indeed back and actively soliciting.

[jpinx]

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In mitigation of my own and others perceptions of the legal issues - we always forget that USA law applies worldwide - even to non-USA people. Hence Assagne's "last stand".

Also - someone earlier in this thread did mention that in Oz it was a reasonable and workable defence if it could be clearly shown that age was not properly clarified to the defendant. I know - that's not USA, but again - we always forget that USA law applies in Thailand

[Naam]

I take it you have not walked down Beach Road, Pattaya at night before ? If you are not approached you must be wearing the cloak of invisibility !

Nah, if you spent any amount of time here on tvf you'd quickly realize why no one would ever approach him.

Also, not sure naam walks anywhere. He has plenty of staff to drive him around.

One of his gardeners probably makes more than you did last year.

Sent from my GT-I9100T

both of you are talking rubbish. i was referring to

His crime started when... ...she approached him to make a deal for having sex.

so you think if you are approached by a drug dealer you have committed a crime? and if an underaged whore approaches you then you face prosecution?

give me a break gentlemen and learn how to read and/or to understand simple English! put up or shut up!

- "if an underaged whore approaches you then you face prosecution" :

Yes, if you go over to a deal...

Lewd and Lascivious is generally defined as conduct that includes entertainment which aims at arousing the libido or primarily sexual sensation, open solicitation for prostitution, or indecent and unlawful exposure of genitalia. In general, the term usually applies to prosecutions for pornography, prostitution, and indecent acts. Lewd and Lascivious Conduct offenses are most serious when the victim is under the age of 16. These most serious types of conduct include exhibition, molestation, battery or sexual conduct around a minor.

- "so you think if you are approached by a drug dealer you have committed a crime ?"

I don't see why you compare mango's with durians when you started a pars pro toto approach of the original topic ? But if you accept his drug deal you should also be convicted as per law.

- give me a break gentlemen and learn how to read and/or to understand simple English!

Both allready done.

if you go over, if you accept, if you bla-bla if you yakety-yak

[ricklev]

He is an expat and should know the rules regarding Thais being hard to guesstimate their ages. 13 however is not hard to guess, it is shown through mannerisms, voice tone etc etc. This man has targeted a very young child for sex, dress it up as you like but anyone that has been here a while knows these kids trates.

There are thousands of over age girls that are available yet he chooses a girl that is 13, not 16 or 17 but 13 it's inexcusable.

The perpetrator's ignorance of the victim's age, the victim's misrepresentation of his or her age, or the perpetrator's bona fide belief of the victim's age can never be raised as a defense in a

prosecution.

Actually, in Thailand, reasonable mistake of age is a complete defense to statutory rape if the girl is 13 or older. However, I don't know if this applies when money is involved.

Victims of child abuse are under complete defense in thai criminal law code section 276.

The only defenses possible, but not applicable in this case : if the offender has been manipulated with narcotics or if he was under menace by a third party or if he's mental ill...

If you imply "the mistake of age" as a solid/acceptable defense, your judicial systems will invite by this all perverts, pedo's and others into this country...

I recently edited a journal article by a Thai criminal law lecturer on statutory rape and the defense of mistake of age and had a long discussion with him about it. You might not like it, I don't and neither did the lecturer, but it is an allowed defense in Thailand if the girl is 13 or over. When and how the judge will accept it is complicated.

Edited February 3, 2013 by ricklev

[jpinx]

I recently edited a journal article by a Thai criminal law lecturer on statutory rape and the defense of mistake of age and had a long discussion with him about it. You might not like it, I don't and neither did the lecturer, but it is an allowed defense in Thailand if the girl is 13 or over. When and how the judge will accept it is complicated.

while interesting - it appears to be a moot point given the assertation that USA law will apply.

[ricklev]

Yes, USA long arm statute might still apply. And I don't know the law in Thailand where money is involved. I will find out tomorrow though as I will be meeting with a group of Thai law professors and will show them this thread. I'm curious about entrapment law in Thailand also. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying the perpetrators behavior (although I never believe that any incident has been accurately described in a Thai newspaper).

Edited February 3, 2013 by ricklev

[jpinx]

Yes, USA long arm statute might still apply. And I don't know the law in Thailand where money is involved. I will find out tomorrow though as I will be meeting with a group of Thai law professors and will show them this thread. I'm curious about entrapment law in Thailand also. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying the perpetrators behavior (although I never believe that any incident has been accurately described in a Thai newspaper).

Entrapment is probably illegal - but who is going to enforce it? It's the perennial problem in highly corrupt systems that finding a "clean brush" is nigh-on impossible. Even in the west they draft in "external" agents to oversee corruption inquiries.

Thanks for the clarity in this very muddy thread I, for one, will be very interested in anything more you come up with. One wonders if the "long-arm" reach of USA law is reserved for legislatures which they deem to be somewhat less than competent, or is it arbitarily applied?

Like you - I condemn anyone proven of child molesting/abuse - but I also believe in innocence until convicted by a court - not by ThaiVisa

[Thorgal]

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The offender will go in pre-trial and final trial in Thailand. His possible execution of Thai court sentence (imprisonment) will happen in Thailand. He can apply for a prison transfer program after 1/3 of his time. Depending on the law treaty between both countries. Please open this link (included 2 other links).

http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/legal-matters-in-thailand.html

The crimes he comitted in Thailand are under US PROTECT act of 2003 and result in maximum 30 years imprisonement. Depending on the facts and a possible cumulation of several crimes together. Under the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution he will have to face probably dual/double criminality and dual/double jeopardy clausules. This means that he can do longer jail-time in the US if the Thai final court sentence was lower than in the US for the same crimes. Idem dito if some crimes were not sentenced/applied by the Thai court, they will be sentenced by the US court as per US laws. These regulations have been made so that sex-offenders would not commit crimes abroad in a 'softer' judicial system.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Thorgal

[jpinx]

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The offender will go in pre-trial and final trial in Thailand. His possible execution of Thai court sentence (imprisonment) will happen in Thailand. He can apply for a prison transfer program after 1/3 of his time. Depending on the law treaty between both countries. Please open this link (included 2 other links).

http://chiangmai.usc...n-thailand.html

The crimes he comitted in Thailand are under US PROTECT act of 2003 and result in maximum 30 years imprisonement. Depending on the facts and a possible cumulation of several crimes together. Under the 5th Amendment of the US Constitution he will have to face probably dual/double criminality and dual/double jeopardy clausules. This means that he can do longer jail-time in the US if the Thai final court sentence was lower than in the US for the same crimes. Idem dito if some crimes were not sentenced/applied by the Thai court, they will be sentenced by the US court as per US laws. These regulations have been made so that sex-offenders would not commit crimes abroad in a 'softer' judicial system.

Amazing.!! If the Thai courts decide on certain charges and penalties - the USA will ignore all of that and impose their own charges and penalties regardless. No wonder USA is probably the most hated country in the world - and I say that with no malice - purely as an observation. Why bother with laws in any other country if USA law is allowed to prevail. One wonders when will they send in a permanent policing presence to enforce US law abroad? Now Assange's protest becomes much more valid - but that's another topic,,,,,,,

[FDog]

Amazing.!! If the Thai courts decide on certain charges and penalties - the USA will ignore all of that and impose their own charges and penalties regardless. No wonder USA is probably the most hated country in the world - and I say that with no malice - purely as an observation. Why bother with laws in any other country if USA law is allowed to prevail. One wonders when will they send in a permanent policing presence to enforce US law abroad? Now Assange's protest becomes much more valid - but that's another topic,,,,,,,

yes that is a big problem. We all say that it doesn't matter what the law is in our own country, we must follow the law in Thailand or suffer the consequences. Many have no sympathy, especially when it is drugs etc.

However, that really isn't the case. If the US is of the view he has committed a crime then they will prosecute, even though he may not actually have committed a crime in Thailand.

I'd hate to be a US citizen, get terrible tax hits no matter where you live and also get held to US laws no matter what the law is in your adopted country. Those US citizens that really think it is the land of the free really should reconsider their thinking.

I was the poster that commented that genuine mistake of age is a defence in Oz and that is definitely the case. But it must be genuine, as in, she told him she was 19.

I personally instructed a prosecution where 3 butchers were having continual sex with a 15 year old. Prosecution case was all but died in the ass, no hope, until the girl produced a 16th birthday card signed by the 3 defendants. If it wasn't for that then the judge would have thrown it out.

For the life of me I can't understand how any enlightened society can consider it wrong for a guy to have sex with a girl who he genuinely believes to be of age. That just smacks of corruption in the making.

PS: I should add that if the sex is CONSENSUAL, and the guy KNOWS she is underage then that is no defence at all. A girl underage cannot legally give consent, in oz anyway. But that has nothing to do with Thai law of course.

Edited February 3, 2013 by FDog

[jpinx]

.................. But that has nothing to do with Thai law of course.

Indeed it would appear that Thai law is irrelevant.

Does anyone know of an example of a "reverse" situation where someone was charged with some offence(s) - possibly for drugs - and Thai law imposed a penalty greater than that prescribed by US law? Did the USA subsequently over-ride Thai law and reduce the penalty to US levels when the person got back to USA?

Is it also correct to say that if a non-USA citizen commits an offence against the USA, then the USA will impose US law in the same way as if that person was a USA citizen? That appears to be the nub of the Assange protest.

Edited February 3, 2013 by jpinx

[Thorgal]

.................. But that has nothing to do with Thai law of course.

Indeed it would appear that Thai law is irrelevant.

Does anyone know of an example of a "reverse" situation where someone was charged with some offence(s) - possibly for drugs - and Thai law imposed a penalty greater than that prescribed by US law? Did the USA subsequently over-ride Thai law and reduce the penalty to US levels when the person got back to USA?

Is it also correct to say that if a non-USA citizen commits an offence against the USA, then the USA will impose US law in the same way as if that person was a USA citizen? That appears to be the nub of the Assange protest.

Does anyone know of an example of a "reverse" situation where someone was charged with some offence(s) - possibly for drugs - and Thai law imposed a penalty greater than that prescribed by US law? Did the USA subsequently over-ride Thai law and reduce the penalty to US levels when the person got back to USA?

10 years sentenced in Thailand but 15 years sentenced in US for the same crimes = 10 years imprisonement in Thailand + 5 years imprisonement US

Narcotics law in Thailand are heavier than US.

Is it also correct to say that if a non-USA citizen commits an offence against the USA, then the USA will impose US law in the same way as if that person was a USA citizen? That appears to be the nub of the Assange protest.

In times of war and crimes related to that war, yes and if you're country (embassy if abroad) endorse the extradition to the States.

[brewsterbudgen]

JT - someone in this thread was telling about guys getting off with it in Oz when they convinced the judge that they did not know the girls real age. I don't know the specific details of Thai law on this point, or the precedent that as been set which this case might have to rely on, but it appears that only USA take such a brutally hard line......

i honestly do not think any judge in any country would convict anyone if proven beyond doubt that the person genuinely was not aware of the age.

You are TRULY living on another planet, or know nothing about American statutory rape law. Whether or not the defendant knows the real age of the girl has absolutely nothing to do with the conviction. Tens of thousands are serving a decade or more, in federal pens, and they were blindsided, just like this guy. The Americans are very zealous about these cases. They love them. The American govt. is completely out of their minds. And you expect a federal judge to rule in this guys favor? Maybe if she was 17, but in the case of 13, the probability of leniency drops to about 0%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In mitigation of my own and others perceptions of the legal issues - we always forget that USA law applies worldwide - even to non-USA people. Hence Assagne's "last stand".

Also - someone earlier in this thread did mention that in Oz it was a reasonable and workable defence if it could be clearly shown that age was not properly clarified to the defendant. I know - that's not USA, but again - we always forget that USA law applies in Thailand

Surely this is only if the offence is deemed to be against the interests of the US? It's a bit of a wild leap to say US law applies worlwide to non-US people!