F1 2013

[wackysleet]

Mosha.

Bahrain is only only the calendar for one reason and that's the money, your right, it's a featureless track and not one that is spectator friendly.

Having been there it's too hot for spectators and tied up with the political problems not a nice place, dump it and go somewhere else as there are lot's of places hoping to stage F1.

David.

[Mosha]

Bernie as much as said the protesters don't have to live there. I despair for the human race

[wackysleet]

Mosha.

Whoever said Bernie is part of the human race.

David.

[Guest]

Bahrain was all about racing. It was good to see all the combats which were going on.

I was happy to see that McLaren drivers were showing the finger to the team orders and raced each other the way the F1 drivers should.

Really bad day for Rossberg, starting from pole, finishing somewhere far behind.

Great drive for Grosjean. I was really happy to see him on the podium as his self esteem has been on trial for the past races. He'll be quick again in the following races. Then again I'll predict an accident in the next 2-3 races.

Räikkönen got second place with his 2 stop strategy. It was quite hilarious to hear him asking why the second stop was earlier as predicted. The team did right and his tires lasted the 22 laps to the end.

Vettel did show why he has won the world championships. After the start overtakings which were great, he drove his own race. Way a front of everybody else.

At the podium the winner was Red Bull. Even if I don't always like politics on F1, they did great at this time. Red Bull put an woman to collect the team price, to show to the local princes etc that skills does not come from what is between the legs, but somewhere else. Well played Red Bull, well played.

It was also quite hilarious that F1 officials had to remind Vettel and Räikkönen, not swear at the podium. Those drivers tend to do it every now and then. Bad boys..

[rixalex]

Personally i thought Ferrari messed up a bit with the way they dealt with the sticking DRS flappy thing. To have brought Alonso in just to whack it down, and not think about the consequences of it sticking again and having to bring him in again, was a bit naive. If they hadn't of had that extra stop, Alonso would have finished even higher, even without the benefit of DRS, which shows how strong the car was.

Funny to have only just been discussing Perez and then for him to have a race like that. He certainly showed a lot more determination and fight, but perhaps a bit too much. What do you think?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22292088

John Watson seems to think that Button should get on with it and stop complaining. I do think though Perez crossed a line when he clipped into the back of Button, and Button had a right to be pissed off. It could so easily have finished his race. Good though that McClaren didn't interfere.

[wackysleet]

Rixalex.

A coincidence for sure about Sergio and perhaps Whitmarsh having a quiet word in his shell like did the trick and yes, not having team orders certainly enhanced the racing which speaks volumes but he did cut it a bit close with Jenson and very nearly took him out, a bit too much enthusiasm me thinks or perhaps thinking about his contract.

John Watson has been unheard of in the press for a long time now until he voiced his opinion on Sebastian and now Jenson. Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

David.

[candypants]

Rixalex.

A coincidence for sure about Sergio and perhaps Whitmarsh having a quiet word in his shell like did the trick and yes, not having team orders certainly enhanced the racing which speaks volumes but he did cut it a bit close with Jenson and very nearly took him out, a bit too much enthusiasm me thinks or perhaps thinking about his contract.

John Watson has been unheard of in the press for a long time now until he voiced his opinion on Sebastian and now Jenson. Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

David.

John Watson is another old f1 hand scrabbling for relevance.

they come out of the woodwork with any opinion on anything.just to see their names in print.,

god save us from jackie stewart.

Mosely summed him up perfectly.

the ons with dignity, like stirling moss mind their ps and qs

[rixalex]

John Watson has been unheard of in the press for a long time now until he voiced his opinion on Sebastian and now Jenson. Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

David.

Hi David,

Although i don't fully agree with what he said about Jenson not complaining, i'm not sure i particularly see the contradiction in what he also said about Vettel.

Two very different issues in my opinion, one about, not whether or not team orders are right - that's a different debate - but about whether drivers have any obligation to follow team instructions, or whether they should be able to pick and choose when they follow and when they ignore. The other issue is about a driver complaining about his team mate fighting to get past.

My position is that all the while FIA say that team orders are legal, drivers have to follow what their team tells them. If a team doesn't employ team orders, team mates should be free to fight each other but should always give space and always avoid contact. Perez didn't avoid contact, so Button was reasonably annoyed.

[carmine]

Rixalex.

A coincidence for sure about Sergio and perhaps Whitmarsh having a quiet word in his shell like did the trick and yes, not having team orders certainly enhanced the racing which speaks volumes but he did cut it a bit close with Jenson and very nearly took him out, a bit too much enthusiasm me thinks or perhaps thinking about his contract.

John Watson has been unheard of in the press for a long time now until he voiced his opinion on Sebastian and now Jenson. Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

David.

John Watson is another old f1 hand scrabbling for relevance.

they come out of the woodwork with any opinion on anything.just to see their names in print.,

god save us from jackie stewart.

Mosely summed him up perfectly.

the ons with dignity, like stirling moss mind their ps and qs

I've met Stirling Moss. He's one of the most pig ignorant, arrogant, condersending pr!cks i've ever met in my life.

Edited April 26, 2013 by carmine

[rixalex]

John Watson is another old f1 hand scrabbling for relevance.

they come out of the woodwork with any opinion on anything.just to see their names in print.,

god save us from jackie stewart.

Mosely summed him up perfectly.

the ons with dignity, like stirling moss mind their ps and qs

I've met Stirling Moss. He's one of the most pig ignorant, arrogant, condersending pr!cks i've ever met in my life.

What did he do? Make a pass on your missus or something?

Whilst i make exceptions in cases like yours in which people have actually met the celebrity in question, i do think in general that the way greats and legends of a sport, whoever they may be, and whatever the sport is, instantly get mocked, ridiculed and attacked, on forums like this, the moment they say something some fans disagree with, is all a bit childish and silly.

And as for quoting something that Max Mosley has said... deary me... what next?

[Ace of Pop]

Ive met Sir Stirling Moss..he said how Charming You Were

[wackysleet]

John Watson has been unheard of in the press for a long time now until he voiced his opinion on Sebastian and now Jenson. Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

David.

Hi David,

Although i don't fully agree with what he said about Jenson not complaining, i'm not sure i particularly see the contradiction in what he also said about Vettel.

Two very different issues in my opinion, one about, not whether or not team orders are right - that's a different debate - but about whether drivers have any obligation to follow team instructions, or whether they should be able to pick and choose when they follow and when they ignore. The other issue is about a driver complaining about his team mate fighting to get past.

My position is that all the while FIA say that team orders are legal, drivers have to follow what their team tells them. If a team doesn't employ team orders, team mates should be free to fight each other but should always give space and always avoid contact. Perez didn't avoid contact, so Button was reasonably annoyed.

Rixalex.

I never implied that there was a contradiction between Seb/Mark and Jenson/Sergio just that he had to voice his opinion on different incidents that a lot of people feel is subjective.

A previous post where I was quoted as saying to posters that the teams were deciding who acheived which position and to get used to the idea {or words to that effect} did not mean that I agreed with it and I have been quite vocal about it, It was a statement of facts as I see and know about.

What annoys me about team orders is the fact with all the telemetry that is available that virtually measures when the driver breaks wind, they spoke about the fuel reserve and tyres with both Seb/Mark and Lewis/Nico and got it completely wrong and Mr R Brawn stated that he does not like giving team orders, such a bloody hippocrite, we all remember the Shumacher years.

I just believe these ex forgotten low profile drivers miss being in the limelight, there has been enough of them voicing their opinions.

I have to agree with your remark about Fernando and Ferrari and their big hammer attitude to the first time failure of the DRS system but hope it's resolved soon as he looks very competative this year.

David.

[rixalex]

Rixalex.

I never implied that there was a contradiction between Seb/Mark and Jenson/Sergio just that he had to voice his opinion on different incidents that a lot of people feel is subjective.

Apologies for misunderstanding the point you were making. The but in your sentence that gave me the impression that you thought his two points were at odds which each other: Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

I just believe these ex forgotten low profile drivers miss being in the limelight, there has been enough of them voicing their opinions.

In this day and age, every man and his dog have an opinion and are able to voice it on forums such as these. Why should people who have worked within the industry be any different? Personally i enjoy hearing such people's take on things, even if i don't always agree with them.

Edited April 26, 2013 by rixalex

[wackysleet]

Rixalex.

I am in total agreement of free speech and individual opinions it's just that these experts and I do mean that sincerely have voiced their views on who is the best driver/most likely to succeed and yet their views differ from other experts so I guess their view is of no more value than any other posters.

The "BUT" in my post was not a typo or a grammatical error {I'm sure there are plenty of those} but my take on John Watsons comments concerning Seb/Mark and I actually think he was aware of a possible coming together of the two cars and in fairness, no one wants that but if he only commented on team orders per-se and that may be the reality than team orders and fuel/tyres were miscalculated as they raced and both still finished but I think those conditions were vastly different than Jenson/Sergio.

David

[Loptr]

Loptr.

I suggest you re;read that article and try to inwardly digest the contents instead of talking utter bullsh-t. Check the dates at 14/15th September and read what Max had to say about the blatant lies that Ron was continuing to tell and read the FIAs threat to drivers about witholding information that they already knew who was aware of that info so why should Pedro and Fernando risk their careers for Ron and Mercedes.

Ron Dennis was always aware of Maclaren having that information whether Maclaren ever benefitted from it we probably wont know especially from the mechanical side but the pitstop strategy was a plus point for Maclaren.

Try reading a bit more about previous racing between Lewis and Fernando and you may even understand why Fernando got some pay back time with his extended pit stop but then again it's apparent from your diatribe that your not an Alonso fan but just possibly a fan that twists the facts to suit his own distorted view on the situation.

Strange how Ron never appealed the fine.

Because Ron is the one that went to Bernie and confessed to the espionage. He was not about to be blackmailed by Alonso, so he fess'd up and paid the fine.

I will try to find the article which spelled this out in black and white. It was an interview with an ex-team member at McLaren around 2010 that let this information out. Of course Alonso nor Ron commented on the article, but it rang true to me knowing the friction at McLaren during the Alonso / Hamilton time with the team.

I stand by my statement. After all, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.

[wackysleet]

Loptr.

Your 100% correct in saying everyone is entitled to their views and opinions are not always factual but you should read the link that b19bry posted, that is the facts not someones own idea of the facts so please post a link that covers a different aspect of the event as posted by b19bry or accept that you have a different opinion that is not factual.

I have read numerous accounts of the affair and the contents are pretty much the same and the conclusion exactly the same.

David.

[wackysleet]

Loptr.

Never mind hearsay from a source that was paid a salary by Ron but read the statement from Max Moseley.

David.

[b19bry]

Rixalex.

A coincidence for sure about Sergio and perhaps Whitmarsh having a quiet word in his shell like did the trick and yes, not having team orders certainly enhanced the racing which speaks volumes but he did cut it a bit close with Jenson and very nearly took him out, a bit too much enthusiasm me thinks or perhaps thinking about his contract.

John Watson has been unheard of in the press for a long time now until he voiced his opinion on Sebastian and now Jenson. Strange how he complained about Seb not obeying team orders although the two did not come together but complains about Jenson voicing his opinion on the way Sergio drove.

David.

John Watson is another old f1 hand scrabbling for relevance.

they come out of the woodwork with any opinion on anything.just to see their names in print.,

god save us from jackie stewart.

Mosely summed him up perfectly.

the ons with dignity, like stirling moss mind their ps and qs

I've met Stirling Moss. He's one of the most pig ignorant, arrogant, condersending pr!cks i've ever met in my life.

But apart from that you found him ok right ?

[b19bry]

I have to agree with your remark about Fernando and Ferrari and their big hammer attitude to the first time failure of the DRS system but hope it's resolved soon as he looks very competative this year.

David.

20x20 hindsight is a wonderful thing huh !

Reportedly Ferrari have found the cause :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107029

I think Vettel was always looking good for the win on this track but for sure Alonso would have made his life a lot harder without the DRS issue, he'd already made a pretty good start.

I think the Ferrari is a much improved car this year and Massa also being a lot quicker reinforces that. Both drivers are looking closer to the Red Bull as is Kimi in the Lotus which is great to see.

[carmine]

Ive met Sir Stirling Moss..he said how Charming You Were

You know i was really hoping that no one came out with the oh so obvious 'he speaks highly of you too' line.

And to get a "like this" swell. Some people are so very easily pleased

[carmine]

John Watson is another old f1 hand scrabbling for relevance.

they come out of the woodwork with any opinion on anything.just to see their names in print.,

god save us from jackie stewart.

Mosely summed him up perfectly.

the ons with dignity, like stirling moss mind their ps and qs

I've met Stirling Moss. He's one of the most pig ignorant, arrogant, condersending pr!cks i've ever met in my life.

What did he do? Make a pass on your missus or something?

Whilst i make exceptions in cases like yours in which people have actually met the celebrity in question, i do think in general that the way greats and legends of a sport, whoever they may be, and whatever the sport is, instantly get mocked, ridiculed and attacked, on forums like this, the moment they say something some fans disagree with, is all a bit childish and silly.

And as for quoting something that Max Mosley has said... deary me... what next?

Point taken Rix. tbh i was saddened by him because as a motorsport enthusiast i've always held him in the highest esteem and it was a shock to find out that someone you'd held in such high regard is intact a unpleasant bloke.

Fortunately a very few other celebs i've met for want of a better description have been very pleasant

[rixalex]

Point taken Rix. tbh i was saddened by him because as a motorsport enthusiast i've always held him in the highest esteem and it was a shock to find out that someone you'd held in such high regard is intact a unpleasant bloke.

Fortunately a very few other celebs i've met for want of a better description have been very pleasant

I too have always held him in high regard. Liked the way he drove, feel a sense of unfairness in him never winning a WDC, and always thought he comes across well in interviews. So am quite shocked by your experience with him. Can you tell us exactly what happened?

[Mosha]

Rumour mill kicking in early. Kimi to RB? I think Vettel will not like that.

[Guest]

Is formula1.com live timing down at the moment? I wished to see the lap times during the race.

.. never mind. It got up again. http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/

Edited May 12, 2013 by Guest

[F430murci]

I have been racing since 13 in everything from Formula Atlantict Champ Atlantic in open and primarily gt3 cup car in closed wheel. I love everything racing and spend weekends instructing for Barbar, PBOC, SCCA, Chen, PCNA, BMW CCA, and etc.

That being said, I can barely watch F1 any more. This is not racing. I can find more entertainment on a track any summer weekend watching spec Miatas going at it. Even Indy has surpassed F1 in entertainment. Crazy thrilling passes for top 5 spots last week in Brazil with Sato blocking my good friend and up and coming Newgarden, Hinchcliff and many passes on a dangerous closed course for top 5 spots during last 3 laps.

Haimilton saying he cannot drive any slower, Mercedes coming out in fuel save mode, no crowding, no blocking, no driving, no nothing. This is a bit like watching a driving school with pass only on the right with a waive around. BORING.

[wackysleet]

F1I have been racing since 13 in everything from Formula Atlantict Champ Atlantic in open and primarily gt3 cup car in closed wheel. I love everything racing and spend weekends instructing for Barbar, PBOC, SCCA, Chen, PCNA, BMW CCA, and etc.

That being said, I can barely watch F1 any more. This is not racing. I can find more entertainment on a track any summer weekend watching spec Miatas going at it. Even Indy has surpassed F1 in entertainment. Crazy thrilling passes for top 5 spots last week in Brazil with Sato blocking my good friend and up and coming Newgarden, Hinchcliff and many passes on a dangerous closed course for top 5 spots during last 3 laps.

Haimilton saying he cannot drive any slower, Mercedes coming out in fuel save mode, no crowding, no blocking, no driving, no nothing. This is a bit like watching a driving school with pass only on the right with a waive around. BORING.

I think Indy car racing is a matter of choice as to whether one thinks it's better than F1 but oval tracks while not being the majority of racing venues probably amount to 33% and having watched the 500 numerous times it's not for me and Nascar, well whatever floats ones boat I guess.

With such a busy weekend schedule of instructing your favourite forms of motorsport then obviously your view of F1 being so boring gives you more time to indulge in whatever alternative you prefer.

[candypants]

Is formula1.com live timing down at the moment? I wished to see the lap times during the race.

.. never mind. It got up again. http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/

could not get it either, but for an app that is not sanctioned ...

[wackysleet]

Rumour mill kicking in early. Kimi to RB? I think Vettel will not like that.

Steve.

It does look like it's on the cards that Kimi will move but perhaps he may go to Ferrari but if it is Red Bull although Seb may prefer someone else he has a better record than Kimi and should not be under estimated. I think Seb is a match for most drivers with the exception of Fernando who I do think is in a class of his own.

David.

[candypants]

woo hoo! Mclaren team orders, perez not allowed to try button on.

[Guest]

Steve.

...

David.

Please use PM for private conversations. It's ok if you don't wish others to participate your conversations which are dedicated to one person, but it would be nice to keep these conversations out of the public forum as well.