Who Do You Trust More....your Dr, Pharmacist Or Dr Google

[infinity11]

I suppose the pharmacist part of the question is thai related.

Since that is where most thais go.

[inthepink]

I've found most Thai doctors that I have been to before than happy to discuss the medication they prescribe. I usually google them anyway because its my body and I am ultimately responsible for my own health.

Edited February 7, 2013 by inthepink

[Mossfinn]

I had this disease which nearly killed me , and when I go to the Doctors here 3/4 have not heard of this , I tell them all the other names and they still don know ....Dr Google for me

Methicillin -resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)(staph)

Try explainig an immunosuppresant

[Dancealot]

After applying Dr. Google, he always seems to come back to me.

After applying Dr. pharmacist i always appear to go back to him.

Indeed! Good inquiry: "Who do you really trust?"

Edited February 7, 2013 by Dancealot

[manarak]

I had this disease which nearly killed me , and when I go to the Doctors here 3/4 have not heard of this , I tell them all the other names and they still don know ....Dr Google for me

Methicillin -resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA)(staph)

Try explainig an immunosuppresant

Easy, just name a couple of named active principles with the same use, such as azathioprine or cyclosporine.

Say "same same azathioprine or cyclosporine" and they will understand.

Regarding the topic...

Google and internet are just tools.

A scientific mind is required to understand the available info and in the case of drugs, to know the correct dosages.

For example the poster with pains in his back could have benefited from joint ingestion of tramadol and paracetamol.

[Mosha]

If the hospital down the road in La-Un is anything to go by, it's a small town hospital. The doctors don't stay long, sometimes just months. They are fresh out of the teaching hospital. After a near death experience, I only go there for minor ailments. Anything serious it's into Ranong.

[lujanit]

The doctor at the local clinic is only open for 90 minutes most evenings so my guess is that he has a full-time position elsewhere. I went to see him the other day to get a script but there was no way he was giving me one. He went out the back and came back with some meds and told me these are the same (active ingredient) and came from India. He told me the price and I replied that at the local pharmacy the same thing was nearly 50% cheaper. He proceeded to haggle with me and I ended up with the Indian meds at less than the Thai price.

I asked my wife later that evening if this guy was a real doctor and she replied 'yes'. Conclusion is that I am never going back to him, he is far more interested in money than providing a service, which I am glad to pay for.

[Neeranam]

Pharmacists usually.

Two 'top' psychiatrists have told me that its safe for me to drink alcohol again in moderation. This advice could be fatal.They are 50 years behind doctors on the West. For other medical issues they are usually 30 yeats behind.

One professor at Bamrungrad tried to give my friend, an alcohloic, diazepam. When I told him it was not advisable he said it was only a little addictive.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Neeranam

[inthepink]

As I already said (in another thread I've just realised, not this one), diazepam is often given to recovering alcoholics. It is commonly used in the first couple of weeks to minimise withdrawal symptoms. This is not a Thai thing at all.

Out of interest, why would you be asking a psychiatrist whether it's "safe" for you to drink alcohol?

Edited February 8, 2013 by inthepink

[Neeranam]

As I already said (in another thread I've just realised, not this one), diazepam is often given to recovering alcoholics. It is commonly used in the first couple of weeks to minimise withdrawal symptoms. This is not a Thai thing at all.

Out of interest, why would you be asking a psychiatrist whether it's "safe" for you to drink alcohol?

I went to these psychiatrists to ask if they knew any alcoholics that I could meet with. This is how an alcoholic recovers. An alcoholic can help another where doctors can't. He, of course being a Thai doctor, thought this was nonsense. One asked me how long I'd been sober(5 years) and suggested that I could drink a few beers a week. I told him this was nonsense and he assumed that being a psychiatrist for 35 years made him more qualified than me. He was the the head psychiatrist at a university hospital, which is scary.

Diazepam is very dangerous for recovering alcoholics. It causes a high risk of relapse. All psychoactive drugs are cross-addicting in persons with addictive disease. The doctor who prescribed for my friend had no idea of this. He prescribed it for LONG-TERM use.

It is often used to prevent DTs,but not for more than a few days. I think the

The alcoholic recovers by doing 12 steps. If taking pychoactive drugs, such as this, some of these steps are not possible.

I

[HeijoshinCool]

My GF has skin under her nails from my back.

Will she live?

uhoh, she has skin from my back also!

j/k

but i did like your post!

Glad you liked my post, but speaking of my girlfriend in that manner is a bit disrespectful of both her and me, don't you think?

[inthepink]

As I already said (in another thread I've just realised, not this one), diazepam is often given to recovering alcoholics. It is commonly used in the first couple of weeks to minimise withdrawal symptoms. This is not a Thai thing at all.

Out of interest, why would you be asking a psychiatrist whether it's "safe" for you to drink alcohol?

I went to these psychiatrists to ask if they knew any alcoholics that I could meet with. This is how an alcoholic recovers. An alcoholic can help another where doctors can't. He, of course being a Thai doctor, thought this was nonsense. One asked me how long I'd been sober(5 years) and suggested that I could drink a few beers a week. I told him this was nonsense and he assumed that being a psychiatrist for 35 years made him more qualified than me. He was the the head psychiatrist at a university hospital, which is scary.

Diazepam is very dangerous for recovering alcoholics. It causes a high risk of relapse. All psychoactive drugs are cross-addicting in persons with addictive disease. The doctor who prescribed for my friend had no idea of this. He prescribed it for LONG-TERM use.

It is often used to prevent DTs,but not for more than a few days. I think the

The alcoholic recovers by doing 12 steps. If taking pychoactive drugs, such as this, some of these steps are not possible.

I

Hmmm. We'll have to differ on the recovery process, although I agree diazepam should not be prescribed for long-term use. The 12-step programme teaches you that you will always be an alcoholic, which is, in my opinion, rubbish. But then, if we were to continue this discussion, we would have to get into the topic of what an alcoholic is: is it a selfish person who is simply into instant self-gratification, or is it somebody with a genetic fault that makes them prone to alcohol abuse (nonsense as far as I'm concerned)? You seem to think it is a disease, I don't.

The fact that you describe yourself as an alcoholic having not touched a drop for five years is what I think is so wrong with the 12-step programme. It's as if they want to teach you that you must spend the rest of your life battling your "disease" and hanging around other people that have so far not relapsed. I think this is the wrong approach and rather a sad way to carry on.

Incidentally, if you are in favour of the 12-step process, why didn't you simply contact AA in Thailand, instead of approaching psychiatrists?

Edited February 8, 2013 by inthepink

[Thaddeus]

I remember hearing what an English Doctor said on the radio not so long back when he was asked what he thought of self-diagnosis.

He said that he used internet medical websites and that he was only human himself, he just had a fancy piece of paper that some thought turned him into a god.

He quite clearly stated that any reasonably intelligent person with a degree of common sense and an ability to cross reference stood just as much chance of making a correct diagnosis as he did, and as you are in closer contact with the symptoms you have, possibly a higher chance.

It is when you need laboratory analysis that you don't have access to that the Doctor has the real advantage.

[JetsetBkk]

I use the Internet when the Pharmacist says "Read the leaflet" and it's all in Thai.

[Neeranam]

Hmmm. We'll have to differ on the recovery process, although I agree diazepam should not be prescribed for long-term use. The 12-step programme teaches you that you will always be an alcoholic, which is, in my opinion, rubbish. But then, if we were to continue this discussion, we would have to get into the topic of what an alcoholic is: is it a selfish person who is simply into instant self-gratification, or is it somebody with a genetic fault that makes them prone to alcohol abuse (nonsense as far as I'm concerned)? You seem to think it is a disease, I don't.

The fact that you describe yourself as an alcoholic having not touched a drop for five years is what I think is so wrong with the 12-step programme. It's as if they want to teach you that you must spend the rest of your life battling your "disease" and hanging around other people that have so far not relapsed. I think this is the wrong approach and rather a sad way to carry on.

Incidentally, if you are in favour of the 12-step process, why didn't you simply contact AA in Thailand, instead of approaching psychiatrists?

You are misunderstood on various things regarding alcoholism. Firstly, alcohol abusers are not alcoholics. Alcohol dependents are. You are talking about

abusers? Then they have the choice in whether or not to drink, alcoholics don't. See here for more details - http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

Alcoholism is a disease - they teach medical students that - why do you think that you know better?

Do you also know better than the experts in this field - are you a doctor?

If you are American maybe you could argue with these organisations who state alcoholism is a disease:-

The American Medical Association, The World Health Organization, American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers,the American College of Physicians , Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine

The AA way to stay sober is by seeking those who are not sober and helping them recover - do you think this is rather sad too?

Your misunderstanding between abusers(heavy drinkers) and dependents(alcoholics) is common to doctors here too. This is exactly the reason that the doctor said I could drink again. Alcohol abusers can abstain and then drink in moderation.

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects .

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence

Edited February 8, 2013 by Neeranam

[MrRealDeal]

I think the disease part is over diagnosed by people in AA ........ it may be a disease for some tiny farction of people but mostly it's not. His point is valid and so is yours

[rene123]

I am fortunate that I am, and have been, very healthy. But, on the occasion that I do need an antibiotic, or medicine of some sort, I always check with Dr Google. It doesn't take long and at least you learn about the pills that have been described for you. Some work and some don't. I've learned that any open wound in the tropics should be treated with an antibiotic immediately. For that reason alone I go straight to a pharmacist first. Every pharmacist I've spoken to in Thailand has spoken good English.

[nietzche]

Ive noticed Thai Dr's seem to prescribe quite heavily. Even Thai Nurofen is double strength than here in Oz.

However Thai doctors are quite good and to go against their decisions because of google would be foolish. I would try a second doctors opinion though.

I have a friend in the south who is a doctor. Her husband is a doctor also. They run a small clinic with a pharmacy attached. The fee to see the doctor is 100 baht or so, however, a patient will not walk out with less than 500 baht worth of various multicolored medications. That's pretty much how they make their money, and they do very well.

Thai people (especially the uneducated) will not question the word of a doctor (the whole class hierarchy thing).

If I am sick I will always self diagnose (WebMD) and tell the pharmacist precisely what I want. Sometimes I they will try and push something else, but once they see you cannot be swayed they will always give in (grudgingly). They are not used to fulfilling the role of merely being a pharmacist and handing over the drugs.

You must remember that here in Thailand, every Pharmacist was a student who couldn't make it into medical school That is absolutely true.

And for those student's that can't make it into Pharmacy school, well.....they end up in veterinary school.

The more enterprising students who can't get into medical school (and have a little money) will go off to study in China.

[chiangmaikelly]

Ive noticed Thai Dr's seem to prescribe quite heavily. Even Thai Nurofen is double strength than here in Oz.

However Thai doctors are quite good and to go against their decisions because of google would be foolish. I would try a second doctors opinion though.

I have a friend in the south who is a doctor. Her husband is a doctor also. They run a small clinic with a pharmacy attached. The fee to see the doctor is 100 baht or so, however, a patient will not walk out with less than 500 baht worth of various multicolored medications. That's pretty much how they make their money, and they do very well.

Thai people (especially the uneducated) will not question the word of a doctor (the whole class hierarchy thing).

If I am sick I will always self diagnose (WebMD) and tell the pharmacist precisely what I want. Sometimes I they will try and push something else, but once they see you cannot be swayed they will always give in (grudgingly). They are not used to fulfilling the role of merely being a pharmacist and handing over the drugs.

You must remember that here in Thailand, every Pharmacist was a student who couldn't make it into medical school That is absolutely true.

And for those student's that can't make it into Pharmacy school, well.....they end up in veterinary school.

The more enterprising students who can't get into medical school (and have a little money) will go off to study in China.

Does that mean I am supposed to believe that?

Edited February 9, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[Mosha]

Ive noticed Thai Dr's seem to prescribe quite heavily. Even Thai Nurofen is double strength than here in Oz.

However Thai doctors are quite good and to go against their decisions because of google would be foolish. I would try a second doctors opinion though.

I have a friend in the south who is a doctor. Her husband is a doctor also. They run a small clinic with a pharmacy attached. The fee to see the doctor is 100 baht or so, however, a patient will not walk out with less than 500 baht worth of various multicolored medications. That's pretty much how they make their money, and they do very well.

Thai people (especially the uneducated) will not question the word of a doctor (the whole class hierarchy thing).

If I am sick I will always self diagnose (WebMD) and tell the pharmacist precisely what I want. Sometimes I they will try and push something else, but once they see you cannot be swayed they will always give in (grudgingly). They are not used to fulfilling the role of merely being a pharmacist and handing over the drugs.

You must remember that here in Thailand, every Pharmacist was a student who couldn't make it into medical school That is absolutely true.

And for those student's that can't make it into Pharmacy school, well.....they end up in veterinary school.

The more enterprising students who can't get into medical school (and have a little money) will go off to study in China.

Does that mean I am supposed to believe that?

What does happen here though is, they get a prescription and then the pills etc... Then they talk to a friend who tells them to try taking drug XYZ. So they go buy that with out any concern of how this will work with the doctor's prescription. I know one teacher who was taking 3 lots of tablets from her doctor, and 7 lots from friends recommendations. Then wonders why she isn't getting better.

[chiangmaikelly]

Some pharmacists make more money than some doctors. This is absolutely true.

Some doctors make more money than some pharmacists. This is absolutely true.

Some pharmacists know more about drugs than some doctors. This is absolutely true.

People who watch re runs of Doctor House MD always know more than people who don't.

Millionaires who live in Switzerland get better health care than the average Thai rice farmer. This is absolutely true.

[phuturatica]

I tend to follow doctors advice but then consult google too so I know what it is I'm taking and what the deal is. Also I have a doctor in the UK too whose mobile number I have so I can consult her anytime on Skype if I'm in doubt.

Wrong diagnosis pretty much nearly killed me when I was 11 months old and I now suffer from chronic kidney disease because of this wrong diagnosis... Which has affected my life greatly. Therefore I'm a little wary of doctor's quick conclusions, which is to be expected really.

[mickjn]

Doctors at big hospitals BKK etc are as good as any in the world

[inthepink]

Hmmm. We'll have to differ on the recovery process, although I agree diazepam should not be prescribed for long-term use. The 12-step programme teaches you that you will always be an alcoholic, which is, in my opinion, rubbish. But then, if we were to continue this discussion, we would have to get into the topic of what an alcoholic is: is it a selfish person who is simply into instant self-gratification, or is it somebody with a genetic fault that makes them prone to alcohol abuse (nonsense as far as I'm concerned)? You seem to think it is a disease, I don't.

The fact that you describe yourself as an alcoholic having not touched a drop for five years is what I think is so wrong with the 12-step programme. It's as if they want to teach you that you must spend the rest of your life battling your "disease" and hanging around other people that have so far not relapsed. I think this is the wrong approach and rather a sad way to carry on.

Incidentally, if you are in favour of the 12-step process, why didn't you simply contact AA in Thailand, instead of approaching psychiatrists?

You are misunderstood on various things regarding alcoholism. Firstly, alcohol abusers are not alcoholics. Alcohol dependents are. You are talking about

abusers? Then they have the choice in whether or not to drink, alcoholics don't. See here for more details - http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12

Alcoholism is a disease - they teach medical students that - why do you think that you know better?

Do you also know better than the experts in this field - are you a doctor?

If you are American maybe you could argue with these organisations who state alcoholism is a disease:-

The American Medical Association, The World Health Organization, American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers,the American College of Physicians , Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine

The AA way to stay sober is by seeking those who are not sober and helping them recover - do you think this is rather sad too?

Your misunderstanding between abusers(heavy drinkers) and dependents(alcoholics) is common to doctors here too. This is exactly the reason that the doctor said I could drink again. Alcohol abusers can abstain and then drink in moderation.

Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects .

Alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that results in harm to one’s health, interpersonal relationships or ability to work. Certain manifestations of alcohol abuse include failure to fulfill responsibilities at work, school or home; drinking in dangerous situations such as while driving; legal problems associated with alcohol use and continued drinking despite problems that are caused or worsened by drinking. Alcohol abuse can lead to alcohol dependence

i understand alcohol very well. Our difference of opinion lies in the fact that I do not believe alcoholism is a disease.. Do I think I know better than medical students? If they are taught that alcoholism is a disease, then yes I do. You seem to think you know more than the doctors you have consulted, so why shouldn't I? AA teaches people they can never be free, that's what I find sad. Their intentions may be good but...

Incidentally, you didn't answer my question - why didn't you just go to an AA meeting if you wanted the support of others, why go to a psychiatrist to ask where you can meet other "alcoholics"?

.

Edited February 9, 2013 by inthepink

[chiangmaikelly]

If you really want to find out how wrong you are open a topic in http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/98-i-drink-too-much-forum/

[Bagwan]

Google > pharmacist > most Thai doctors.

Went to an after hours clinic of a doctor who works for one of the expensive hospitals to get some anti-depressants. While waiting I had a look at their range of other goods they were selling. Magic hair restoral cream and an anti-ageing cream called I kid you not ' The best cream' for 1000 Baht the size of a small match box.

This was a clinic exculsivly for depression. How many people go there with issues about their looks and they are trying to rip them off ? I think the idiot doctor put my disdain to her down to my depression. Didn't bother taking the follow up appointment card or paying 1500 for the 20 pills. Got 100 of another brand for 170 B at a large pharmacist.

Another one from that hospitals rivals , a baby doctor, sat there tellig us that our son was allergic to cow baby milk and needed to drink baby soy milk, you know the one, yep the one her clinic was decorated with. 2 other doctors laughed when I told my wife to ask them about it.

I understand that many Asians cannot assimilate cows milk. Same goes for cats too. My other half and arbiter of good taste drinks soy milk fortified with additional calcium. Doesn't seem to harm her.

Babies should be breast fed and there are many advantages in doing so - but I guess that you know that.

[Bagwan]

Doctors at big hospitals BKK etc are as good as any in the world

I would be happier if you had written the word 'some' at the beginning of your message. When in any doubt I consult a good lady doctor at one of the BKK hospitals with 4 different US qualifications and who worked in the US for 6 years. I trust her completely.

[Bagwan]

May I add a touch of levity to this discussion?

After attending to learn the results of my annual check up the doctor said that I was fit and well, adding that I had lost weight. I said that I had been taking regular exercise and had been off the sauce for 3 months. A few minutes later he said that the only thing that I might keep an eye on was the sugar levels in my blood. That'll be due to the beer he said!!!! I let the matter go.

I then told him that I had been experiencing some discomfort behind my naughty bits. That'll be through having too much sex he said. What???? At my age? I should be so lucky. I have never since returned to consult this idiot.

I took myself off to Bumrungrad and saw a very nice general purpose lady doctor. Now there was a lady that I wouldn't mind having too much sex with. After acquainting her with my symptoms and concern she referred me to a Urologist. I was escorted by her nurse to another part of the hospital and ushered in to see the doctor. I indicated the area of discomfort and told him that the Pattaya doctor had said I was having too much sex. He burst out laughing and said that you cannot have too much sex. I agreed agreed with him and said that you can always have sufficient. He then asked me why I was telling him my story. It turned out that he was a Neurologist. We had a good laugh over that.

I eventually got myself in front of a Urologist but I decided that he was more interested in money than my condition. He advised me to spend 3 days in hospital so that he could take a biopsy of my prostate. I told him that I had undergone such a procedure in the UK on two separate occasions and in both cases it was a walk in, undergo the procedure and then walk back home. It was not painful, not even an analgesic was administered and I had spent a total of about 30 minutes in the hospital.

I then went to what is now my favourite hospital and saw a Urologist. He asked me what my problem was and I said that my opinion was that I had BPH. Without further ado he wrote out a prescription for a 3 month supply and told me to come back when I needed more medication. The pills have worked famously and when I went back I told him that I could stand in the street and put out a fire on the second floor of a building. He wrote another prescription.

An enlarged prostate is often called benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) or benign prostatic hypertrophy. It is not cancer, and it does not raise your risk for prostate cancer. An enlarged prostate means the gland has grown bigger. Prostate enlargement happens to almost all men as they get older. As the gland grows, it can press on the urethra and cause urination and bladder problems.

[mickjn]

Doctors at big hospitals BKK etc are as good as any in the world

I would be happier if you had written the word 'some' at the beginning of your message. When in any doubt I consult a good lady doctor at one of the BKK hospitals with 4 different US qualifications and who worked in the US for 6 years. I trust her completely.

Are you saying that some of the doctors that work in the big hospitals in BKK are no good,

[Thaddeus]

Doctors at big hospitals BKK etc are as good as any in the world

I would be happier if you had written the word 'some' at the beginning of your message. When in any doubt I consult a good lady doctor at one of the BKK hospitals with 4 different US qualifications and who worked in the US for 6 years. I trust her completely.

Are you saying that some of the doctors that work in the big hospitals in BKK are no good,

Are you saying that you have a comprehension problem?