How To Buy Land - Did I Leave Something Out?

[bobthedog]

Hi

Me and my wife have decided to buy some land in Northern Thailand. We live outside of Thailand, and plan to continue doing so for the next couple of years. The purchase is just to prepare for the future. I'd like to be sure that I know the process of purchasing land though, so I've listed the process as I see it, below. It is a bit detailed, to make sure nothing is left out.

1) Make an agreement with a Thai local, for example over the internet, to buy his land.

2) Wife goes to Thailand.

3) Wife opens a bank account in Thailand.

4) I transfer the amount to the newly opened bank account in Thailand.

5) Wife will make a bank transfer to sellers bank account.

6) The deed is taken care of at local amphur with wife and seller present.

7) Amphur gives wife a document stating that all funds are sourced by her. Document is signed by wife and returned to Amphur.

8) Job done, land is in wife's name and she may leave Thailand for now.

9) Taxes to be paid each year.

Do you see any missings or wrongs in the list? At least I have a feeling that something is missing in between number 5 and 6. And how about number 9 - how does that work when not in Thailand?

Thanks!

Bob.

[Crossy]

There is a letter that YOU sign to state you have no financial interest in the land. If your wife has retained her Thai surname the land office may not ask for it (our didn't).

There is danger between 5 and 6, seller can do a runner with the money before transferring the land, better Wife gets a bank cheque (or whatever the Thais call it) to hand over at the land office.

There is also a transfer tax / fee payable at the time of transfer.

Hopefully someone with more direct / recent experience can chime in.

[PattayaPhom]

Pay funds at land office, not before!!!

[kangeroo]

Hello ,

i always make sure i have a copy of everything and a picture video ( easy these days ) of all transactions while dealing with banks, land office or on site meetings , especially the signing of important documents and any money changing hands .

cheers .

[jamescollister]

OP, if your wife is talking transfer at the amphor level, then you are talking low title land that can't be sold.

Common practice, land that can not be transferred or sold at the land office. Village head, sub Gov or amphor official witness the sale transfer. Also with this type of land it's use it or lose it, if you don't farm it someone else can claim it.

Think hard, what do you want to buy, farmland, residential etc Things may cost a lot more than you think, good title doesn't come cheap these days.

Buying off the net is a no, no, you can not see the land or the real title, seller may be selling you land he doesn't own or has leans/loans on it. Wife flies over for nothing.

As said above, if wife's ID says married to a farang, you need to be there, if a land office transfer. No problem if amphor level, since it's not really a legal transfer in the first place.

There is a lot more to it than just buying a bit of land, hire a land lawyer to check it over. Many farangs think it is a free for all when it come to land, but the laws are there for zoning, usage, planing permission, just as in the west. Perhaps not enforced as vigorously as in the west, but the times are a changing and one day they will be enforced. Jim

[David48]

As usual ... great advice by Jim ... ignore it at your peril!

.

[keeniau96]

Chanote is the only really secure type of land title to have. Insist on that as well as the other advice about fund transfer only at the land office at the moment of the signatures.

[davejones]

I don't think it's wise to buy land from what you see on the internet. You need to go look at the land and make sure t's suitable.

[Osiris]

If it were me, no matter how much I loved the woman, I'd also get a lease agreement for thirty years that states she can not take any loans and has no rights to the proceeds it you ever sell it. I'd also create a will that says the land proceeds go to charity or your children, and make sure she knows about it. Gently, of course. After that, let's hope you don't get murdered...TIT, again, fail at your own peril.

[TommoPhysicist]

OP should read ....... "I have decided to give my wife some money to spend as she wishes"

What you wrote is a foreigner nominee land purchase and against Thai law.

Plus everything Jim said.

Edited February 9, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[THAIPHUKET]

Even if the owner states in good faith that his land is x rai, he might be wrong if the land office takes the land surveying.

Borders may have been redrawn and this is not reflected in old chanots.

Never think about paying before the land has been newly surveyed for you. We had this situation several times, learned quickly, paid only once toomuch, ignorantly we all, seller and buyer trusted an old chanot.

[cornishcarlos]

Definately some wise words above, however I think it depends on the amount you are paying and where the land is.

We (Farang) always fixate on this law and that law, make a will, has to be Chanote etc.

A great deal of Thais don't think like that, as long as the land is the correct amount and the village chief or Amphur agree the name change, all is sweet

We (my wife) just bought 30+ rai in Chaiyaphum, por bor tor 5.. Nice piece of land, near the mountains and someone rents it to grow manyok. Cost was just 20k per rai and we did the transfer at the Or bor tor. I took photos of every stage just for my records. We then checked with the local rangers that the land was not National park, they signed too and then went to the local governors house and handed over the money. All very low key and potentially dodgy but didn't feel like it to me.. If we lose it, so be it. Now if I was investing a few million baht, maybe a different story

Get a little handheld GPS and measure the land.. We bought one and have nearly paid for it by doing land measuring for other people too !! Just another bonus of living in LOS, can always make a little extra...

Be careful but don't stress too much..

[jamescollister]

My wife owns all the land, some with good title others with bad, 10 year rule applies. I own F/A . Have a limited partnership company, rubber factory. Can't read Thai. could own some or F/A again.

Nature of Thailand, if things go bad run you can't win. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

Definately some wise words above, however I think it depends on the amount you are paying and where the land is.

We (Farang) always fixate on this law and that law, make a will, has to be Chanote etc.

A great deal of Thais don't think like that, as long as the land is the correct amount and the village chief or Amphur agree the name change, all is sweet

Nothing to do with the price or the size.

The land is for the use of locally born people, sure they can trade it with each other, but not to a foreigner or a Thai from Bangkok.

If you ain't a local (born in that Amphur), the government can take it back!

[cornishcarlos]

Definately some wise words above, however I think it depends on the amount you are paying and where the land is.

We (Farang) always fixate on this law and that law, make a will, has to be Chanote etc.

A great deal of Thais don't think like that, as long as the land is the correct amount and the village chief or Amphur agree the name change, all is sweet

Nothing to do with the price or the size.

The land is for the use of locally born people, sure they can trade it with each other, but not to a foreigner or a Thai from Bangkok.

If you ain't a local (born in that Amphur), the government can take it back!

The government 'can' take it back.. I have yet to hear of anyone having their land taken back

The locals don't care, they get a reasonable price for their land parcel.

The local Amphur don't care..

Just moaning pussies on TV that care...

The price and size was just a reference to what the OP would be willing to lose...

If I was my wife was buying large or expensive plots then we would be very diligent in our proceedings, otherwise just do as the locals do.

BTW we rent our Chaiyaphum land out to a local that can't afford to buy.

[cornishcarlos]

Definately some wise words above, however I think it depends on the amount you are paying and where the land is.

We (Farang) always fixate on this law and that law, make a will, has to be Chanote etc.

A great deal of Thais don't think like that, as long as the land is the correct amount and the village chief or Amphur agree the name change, all is sweet

Nothing to do with the price or the size.

The land is for the use of locally born people, sure they can trade it with each other, but not to a foreigner or a Thai from Bangkok.

If you ain't a local (born in that Amphur), the government can take it back!

Plus it's not for local people only.

Thai people can have Tor Bor 5 land anywhere if they are using it for agriculture.

[jamescollister]

If it were me, no matter how much I loved the woman, I'd also get a lease agreement for thirty years that states she can not take any loans and has no rights to the proceeds it you ever sell it. I'd also create a will that says the land proceeds go to charity or your children, and make sure she knows about it. Gently, of course. After that, let's hope you don't get murdered...TIT, again, fail at your own peril.

Lease is good if you are in fact leasing the land from someone other than your wife.

If you pay for the land in the first place and then break up with the wife, she can enforce the lease. You literally pay for the land twice or she breaks the lease as you never paid the rent in the first place.

No safe way to control land in Thailand, buyer be ware. Jim

[THAIPHUKET]

There have been many threads on the question of how much the average yield in tons of rice per rai or how much to pay for 1 rai of rice paddy. In the tiny village of my wife, in the middle of no-no-where paddy prices have gone up substantially over 5 years without justification.

Let me ask= the average price per ton of rice is more or less fixed by the government within a range. Given this known factor there ought be a price range per rai within which it makes economical sense to buy rice paddy. Taking into account all related expenditures, labor , etc. What is that price range? And forget about the fact that farang can´t buy.

[cornishcarlos]

There have been many threads on the question of how much the average yield in tons of rice per rai or how much to pay for 1 rai of rice paddy. In the tiny village of my wife, in the middle of no-no-where paddy prices have gone up substantially over 5 years without justification.

Let me ask= the average price per ton of rice is more or less fixed by the government within a range. Given this known factor there ought be a price range per rai within which it makes economical sense to buy rice paddy. Taking into account all related expenditures, labor , etc. What is that price range? And forget about the fact that farang can´t buy.

The price is irrelevant to a lot of Thai.. Business sense doesn't seem to translate !!

Just look a little coffee shop in a small village with a 100k espresso machine, looks good but they ain't ever gonna get there money back on it

[transam]

Do l smell ''pension'' for someone here.

[TommoPhysicist]

There have been many threads on the question of how much the average yield in tons of rice per rai or how much to pay for 1 rai of rice paddy. In the tiny village of my wife, in the middle of no-no-where paddy prices have gone up substantially over 5 years without justification.

Let me ask= the average price per ton of rice is more or less fixed by the government within a range. Given this known factor there ought be a price range per rai within which it makes economical sense to buy rice paddy. Taking into account all related expenditures, labor , etc. What is that price range? And forget about the fact that farang can´t buy.

The price is irrelevant to a lot of Thai.. Business sense doesn't seem to translate !!

Just look a little coffee shop in a small village with a 100k espresso machine, looks good but they ain't ever gonna get there money back on it

I do enjoy a nice Latte ....... so not a total waste of money.

But rice paddy ........... <deleted> kind of enjoyment can I get from that!

Edited February 10, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[THAIPHUKET]

There have been many threads on the question of how much the average yield in tons of rice per rai or how much to pay for 1 rai of rice paddy. In the tiny village of my wife, in the middle of no-no-where paddy prices have gone up substantially over 5 years without justification.

Let me ask= the average price per ton of rice is more or less fixed by the government within a range. Given this known factor there ought be a price range per rai within which it makes economical sense to buy rice paddy. Taking into account all related expenditures, labor , etc. What is that price range? And forget about the fact that farang can´t buy.

The price is irrelevant to a lot of Thai.. Business sense doesn't seem to translate !!

Just look a little coffee shop in a small village with a 100k espresso machine, looks good but they ain't ever gonna get there money back on it

Qutoe "Irrelevant to a lot of Thai," Unquote

well said and it seems to reflect the fact, that few farangs have access to the many successful, clever and well educated Thais, who know very well what makes sense economically.

[aircut2013]

make sure that your land has public road access and you are not surrounded by private lands, which will require you to negotiate your path out of your property. deeds normally have a clear mark if public road is reaching your land. if in doubt check with the land department,

[bobthedog]

As said above, if wife's ID says married to a farang, you need to be there, if a land office transfer. No problem if amphor level, since it's not really a legal transfer in the first place.

I wasn't aware until now, that land title deeds may be divided into four categories. Chanote seems like the obvious choice. My wife has my last name, and has this lastname in her Thai passport and Thai id card as well. If I understand you correctly, I need to be in Thailand when buying land because my wife's lastname indicates that she is married to a falang?

How to pay the annual land tax, when staying abroad?

[Thereisnoif]

You can kiss your money goodbye

[jamescollister]

As said above, if wife's ID says married to a farang, you need to be there, if a land office transfer. No problem if amphor level, since it's not really a legal transfer in the first place.

I wasn't aware until now, that land title deeds may be divided into four categories. Chanote seems like the obvious choice. My wife has my last name, and has this lastname in her Thai passport and Thai id card as well. If I understand you correctly, I need to be in Thailand when buying land because my wife's lastname indicates that she is married to a falang?

How to pay the annual land tax, when staying abroad?

First you need to know what the land can be used for [usage], just because it has charnote doesn't mean you can build a house or put up a nuke power plant. Think how the land laws work in your home country, Thai laws are mostly copies of western laws. You may hold freehold land, but it is farming, not residential or industrial.

If your wife buy lands, good title or bad makes no difference, she's Thai and the title will stand, if you make no claim, it's hers.

She can in fact buy land without you being there, she just has to convince the land office that it was her money, job in the west, pay slips and bank details.

You are a stranger in a strange land, except that you own nothing and have no rights to do with land, have a good wife, be a good husband, have a happy life. jim

[swissie]

As said above, if wife's ID says married to a farang, you need to be there, if a land office transfer. No problem if amphor level, since it's not really a legal transfer in the first place.

I wasn't aware until now, that land title deeds may be divided into four categories. Chanote seems like the obvious choice. My wife has my last name, and has this lastname in her Thai passport and Thai id card as well. If I understand you correctly, I need to be in Thailand when buying land because my wife's lastname indicates that she is married to a falang?

How to pay the annual land tax, when staying abroad?

I find it a bit worriesome, that your wife hasen't introduced you to things like the different land-titles and their meaning in the real (Thai)-World), in the first place.?!

If in your shoes, I would put everything "on ice" until you had the chance to familiarize yourself with the basics with regard to land purchases in general, and land purchases "sponsored" by farangs especially. Jim's comments above should be your guideline.

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- I do not want to rain on your parade, but it has become common knowledge, that Farangs stand practically no chance to at least recover part of their investement if things should "turn sour".

Having said that: Could this fact be the reason, that even after a short time of having a relationship with a Farang, many a Thai-Lady will make a serious effort to convince the Farang, that investing in land and house is a good thing to do?

I tend to agree: It's a good thing to do for the lady. It's like sitting at a poker-table in Las Vegas, with the guarantee that she can not loose. Just food for thaught.

Cheers.

[Khun Jean]

The reason for Thai people to buy land is security.

It is all the way on the top of the wishlist.

Gold is also high on it.

It all has to do with government devaluing money.

Thais learned their lesson and go for hard assets.

A lesson forgotten by most westerners.

[Waveraiderfromoz]

MyThai wife talked me into buying 80 rai land for farming near NokhonSawan for our future
when I retire. I was told it had deeds/papers the best there is. Her father is looking after the land and has planted sweet potato and is havesting it now, but because her last name is mine, the land had to be bought in her mother's name (wrong move). I am moving to Thailand soon to retire and was
told I have to have a letter saying I have no financial claim to it so the deeds can be changed to my wife's name.

Can someone who has bought land provide me with some information? I am very worried
that the mother will not sign over the land because this will be "loss of
face". I trust my wife 100% but not the influence her mother has over her.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Waveraiderfromoz]

Well am still waiting for my wife's mother to sign the land over to my wife, I have given them a letter saying I have no financial claim stamped by my embassy. I have got a bad feeling that my wife's mother has taken out a loan on the land and cannot transfer to my wife's name. They keep telling me that it's something to do with government land in the area and cannot transfer or sell for 5 years, what a load of shit. I've lost the money, stupid me for getting sucked in.