Panthongtae Shinawatra: Amnesty ' For Red-Shirts, Not For Thaksin'

[Pimay1]

I think it would be ok to pardon those who did petty things, like violating curfews, blocking roads, airports etc. However no amnesty should be granted to thiefs, arsonists and the like.

Only those who are actually in prison should be pardoned, and only if the admit their wrongdoing.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Got to hand it to you. One of those "petty things", as you describe them, such as "blocking airports etc" cost the Thai Economy $8.5 Billion US.

In addition your idea that only "those who are actually in prison should be pardoned" whether they "admit their wrongdoing" or not, would allow all of those yellow shirts to go free - they're "on bail". Not only that what would happen to the $17 Million US fine the 13 yellow shirt leaders were ordered to pay back in May 2011. Oh, they haven't paid that yet and Sondhi is broke (so he says) - must be the legal bills for all 5 of the bail arrangements he is under, the latest for a 20 year fraud sentence.

Yes, that sounds fair and well thought through.

If they had punished and dealt with the Yellows in the first place there would have been no reds.

Reaping what they sow.

<deleted>. The Reds were invented and bankrolled to get the paymaster his frozen funds back.

But I agree that there should be more done to speed up ALL trials. Red and Yellow.

So true. They invaded Bangkok for the burn Bangkok campaign only a few days after T money was frozen.

[muttley]

<deleted>. The Reds were invented and bankrolled to get the paymaster his frozen funds back.

But I agree that there should be more done to speed up ALL trials. Red and Yellow.

So true. They invaded Bangkok for the burn Bangkok campaign only a few days after T money was frozen.

So you are saying that the red shirts didn't exist before 2010? Oh, dear. That's what happens when you rely on this forum for your "facts"

Edited February 10, 2013 by muttley

[Pimay1]

<deleted>. The Reds were invented and bankrolled to get the paymaster his frozen funds back.

But I agree that there should be more done to speed up ALL trials. Red and Yellow.

So true. They invaded Bangkok for the burn Bangkok campaign only a few days after T money was frozen.

So you are saying that the red shirts didn't exist before 2010? Oh, dear. That's what happens when you rely on this forum for your "facts"

I know they came to be in 2006. I was here. They cooled down and then when the government froze T's money they came out in force. The rest is history. Edited February 10, 2013 by Pimay1

[ramrod711]

I think it would be ok to pardon those who did petty things, like violating curfews, blocking roads, airports etc. However no amnesty should be granted to thiefs, arsonists and the like.

Only those who are actually in prison should be pardoned, and only if the admit their wrongdoing.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Got to hand it to you. One of those "petty things", as you describe them, such as "blocking airports etc" cost the Thai Economy $8.5 Billion US.

In addition your idea that only "those who are actually in prison should be pardoned" whether they "admit their wrongdoing" or not, would allow all of those yellow shirts to go free - they're "on bail". Not only that what would happen to the $17 Million US fine the 13 yellow shirt leaders were ordered to pay back in May 2011. Oh, they haven't paid that yet and Sondhi is broke (so he says) - must be the legal bills for all 5 of the bail arrangements he is under, the latest for a 20 year fraud sentence.

Yes, that sounds fair and well thought through.

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

[rixalex]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

And how much did this cost?

(source: me)

Edited February 10, 2013 by rixalex

[muttley]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

And how much did this cost?

(source: me)

Ask the insurers.

[Pimay1]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

And how much did this cost?

(source: me)

Ask the insurers.

Question for you muttley. Were you in Thailand in 2010 during the red mob riots in Bangkok ?

[Valentine]

Forget the bloody yellow shirts and explain to me how you are granted bail and yet are "actually in prison" as per the post you quoted.

How can I forget the yellow shirts - he explicitly mentioned them in the post!

No need to do a Bangkok Governor just because you don't understand. Read this again slowly, it might eventually sink in.

Bail is granted before the trial - the trial has two outcomes, guilty or not guilty. The guilty ones will go to prison and by definition will be subject to the amnesty. (The non guilty ones are not guilty therefore have no need of an amnesty)

It's purely a matter of timing, eventually they will be subject to an amnesty and freed.

There are plenty of people out on bail after being found guilty. The cops who received the death sentence are a prime example. I believe there are also many in jail from the protests & other crimes who are not guilty as they have not had their final day in court yet. Thai justice always seems to be selective & dependent on how much money you have &/or who you know. The prime example here are the connected reds & yellows who are out on bail while their poor, unconnected, cousins stay inside. The great divide in Thai justice beggars belief.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Valentine

[rubl]

Panthongtae Shinawatra, son of the ousted and fugitive former PM, posted a message on his Facebook page that Thaksin's move would benefit all sides, particularly ordinary red-shirt protesters facing legal trouble for taking part in the 2010 political unrest.

The last I read about the (Independent) Rule of Law commission the amnesty was supposed to be for those involved in 'political' protests from 2006-09-19 till 2011-05-10. Interesting the need to stress 'red-shirts'.

BTW I keep asking, but anyone out there who has the current text of the six article amnesty bill the RoL Commission wants the Senate to forward ? I mean if we are to discuss amnesty we either stick to the current proposal or have a higher level philosophical type of brainstorming. IMHO of course.

[kimamey]

Really - What have they proposed? They have only poured scorn on any idea without coming up with anything of their own.

Can't read?

Meanwhile, the opposition Democrats said the party was willing to endorse an amnesty bill that would cover those who had not committed criminal offences or corruption, but the court must proceed on those two types of offences and adjudicate.

Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, spokesperson of the Democrats, said at a press conference yesterday that in reaction to what first deputy House Speaker Charoen Jankomol had said earlier, the party was willing to seek a solution for the country with others and support an amnesty bill that would cover ordinary protesters. This should cover those who violated the emergency decree as well as the Internal Security Act.

Yes I can thank you, its you that has the comprehension problems. The above only states it is "willing to endorse" - i.e someone elses idea and only up to a point.

As I said the democrats have produced nothing. Only good at talking.

'They have only poured scorn on any idea without coming up with anything of their own.'

'The above only states it is "willing to endorse" - i.e someone elses idea and only up to a point.'

These two statements seem to contradict one another. If they're willing to endorse something they aren't pouring scorn on it are they? Just because they don't agree with a proposal 100% is not really surprising or a problem. It's part of negotiating to achieve a satisfactory outcome. If they agree on something does it really matter if someone else came up with it?

As for being only good at talking I think you'll find that's largely what politicians do, although not the current PM of course. Surely that's what the government and others are doing as well isn't it or have they passed a bill without me noticing.

You really do seem to have a very narrow view of things.

[scorecard]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

You'll be sad to hear that the damage was estimated to be as at least $1.5 Billion US

( http://www.upi.com/T...70061274580817/ )

about 17% of the damage wrought by the yellow shirts.

Personally speaking I am more appalled by the number of deaths on both sides than the economic losses.

It was the "buildings before people" mentality that led to the high death toll anyway when the military roe were changed to allow troops to shoot to kill to protect buildings - abhisit and suthep signed off on that.

You can try to make it all sound so simple.

There are people (but of course they are all wrong, because there is only only one right opinion - yours), who believe that the police / army should be protecting everything as much as possible, people, buildings public property paid for by taxpayers money etc etc.

Edited February 10, 2013 by scorecard

[kimamey]

Panthongtae Shinawatra, son of the ousted and fugitive former PM, posted a message on his Facebook page that Thaksin's move would benefit all sides, particularly ordinary red-shirt protesters facing legal trouble for taking part in the 2010 political unrest.

The last I read about the (Independent) Rule of Law commission the amnesty was supposed to be for those involved in 'political' protests from 2006-09-19 till 2011-05-10. Interesting the need to stress 'red-shirts'.

BTW I keep asking, but anyone out there who has the current text of the six article amnesty bill the RoL Commission wants the Senate to forward ? I mean if we are to discuss amnesty we either stick to the current proposal or have a higher level philosophical type of brainstorming. IMHO of course.

'a higher level philosophical type of brainstorming.'

I don't know how this happened. Maybe you were on some university debating site and Google messed up and put a link for Thaivisa by mistake which you clicked. Hopefully by now you've realised you terrible error and clicked on the back button or maybe thrown you computer out of the window. May I suggest if you're still here you go and clean yourself up have a stiff drink and a nap and in future be careful what you click.

[Robby nz]

_{I wonder about the term 'ordinary protesters'}

_{The ordinary yellow shirt protesters all went home peacefuly while the ordinary red protesters who hadnt seen the light and already gone home were fed watered and bussed home at the expense of the long suffering tax payer.}

_{These 'ordinary protesters' were never charged with anything so therefore dont need any amnasty.}

_{So who all are they trying to get out of trouble?}

Edited February 10, 2013 by metisdead
: Font

[rubl]

After a stiff drink and introspection, let me be a bit more pragmatic.

Without anyone here seemingly knowing the exact text of the amnesty bill being pushed (or is that amnesty bills ?), we already are on naming names of those who will be effected by the amnesty and who not. I guess afterwards we will try to find good reasons for those names on the list :-)

[Pimay1]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

And how much did this cost?

(source: me)

Ask the insurers.

Question for you muttley. Were you in Thailand in 2010 during the red mob riots in Bangkok ?

Question for you muttley. Were you in Thailand in 2010 during the red mob riots in Bangkok?

[Buchholz]

If they had punished and dealt with the Yellows in the first place there would have been no reds.

Reaping what they sow.

If they punished and dealt with the Reds before the yellows in the first place there would have been no yellows and there would have been no second and third round of Reds.

.

[OzMick]

Forget the bloody yellow shirts and explain to me how you are granted bail and yet are "actually in prison" as per the post you quoted.

How can I forget the yellow shirts - he explicitly mentioned them in the post!

No need to do a Bangkok Governor just because you don't understand. Read this again slowly, it might eventually sink in.

Bail is granted before the trial - the trial has two outcomes, guilty or not guilty. The guilty ones will go to prison and by definition will be subject to the amnesty. (The non guilty ones are not guilty therefore have no need of an amnesty)

It's purely a matter of timing, eventually they will be subject to an amnesty and freed.

Dodge, duck and weave - but delete the idiotic statement that you made. ie ""those who are actually in prison should be pardoned" whether they "admit their wrongdoing" or not, would allow all of those yellow shirts to go free - they're "on bail".

I repeat for the simple-minded - People "on bail" ARE NOT "actually in prison".

[Buchholz]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

You'll be sad to hear that the damage was estimated to be as at least $1.5 Billion US

( http://www.upi.com/T...70061274580817/ )

LOL @ your inane source.... written less than 3 days after CentralWorld was burnt to the ground. As if that is any sort of actual representation of the final toll from the Red Shirt country-wide arsonists and bombers.

Noticed you also don't cite any source for your earlier post with your inflated airport costs.... Noticed, but not surprised.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Buchholz

[looping]

It's very important for T to absolve the red shirts so that he can mobilize them in the future.

It will be much harder for him if they know that there will be consequences for their future actions.

Once he's cleared them they will be free to do a repeat performance until he is allowed to come back Scott free. Simple enough.

[Buchholz]

I wonder about the term 'ordinary protesters'

The ordinary yellow shirt protesters all went home peacefully while the ordinary red protesters who hadn't seen the light and already gone home were fed watered and bussed home at the expense of the long suffering tax payer.

These 'ordinary protesters' were never charged with anything so therefore don't need any amnesty.

So who all are they trying to get out of trouble?

The lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples

.

[muttley]

I wonder about the term 'ordinary protesters'

The ordinary yellow shirt protesters all went home peacefully while the ordinary red protesters who hadn't seen the light and already gone home were fed watered and bussed home at the expense of the long suffering tax payer.

These 'ordinary protesters' were never charged with anything so therefore don't need any amnesty.

So who all are they trying to get out of trouble?

The lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples

http://www.thaivisa....ace-threatened/

.

Didn't that lengthy list turn out to be about 10/15 people, not exactly representative, when at one time there was at 100,000 protesters there, or do you have a different view of maths to me. Even 10/15 out of 3/400 in prison doesn't look that high to me.

[Buchholz]

Please tell us what it cost for red shirts to block several major intersections in Bangkok for 4 months (not days). What did it cost to have the police check every car and truck entering the city, to move the patients from the hospital, to replace the electrical tower they tried to blow up, to repair the skytrain platform that was damaged by a grenade. What did it cost to clean up the mess they left and for the army to be in place for all that time. A sit in at an airport seems pretty tame compared to what Thaksins thugs wrought on Bangkok.

You'll be sad to hear that the damage was estimated to be as at least $1.5 Billion US

( http://www.upi.com/T...70061274580817/ )

LOL @ your inane source.... written less than 3 days after CentralWorld was burnt to the ground. As if that is any sort of actual representation of the final toll to the Red Shirt country-wide arsonists and bombers.

Noticed you also don't cite any source for your earlier post with your inflated airport costs.... Noticed, but not surprised.

About UPI

Yes, UPI... now then do have anything from them that was written longer than 3 days after event that would provide a truer picture of what was actually involved in the months of mayhem accumulating in 2009 and again in 2010?

You know, something the link you had to be prompted to supply .. something like a year after the event?

.

[muttley]

I don't suppose there is the faintest possibility that would be included under "social problems"?

I quote you

A seminar and workshop on the problems Thailand is facing were held as part of the launch, and Abhisit delivered a speech on the "overall picture of Thailand's development and future - options that we can design together".

He said it was time for Thais to raise questions about the country's economic growth and development, which should also take into account the widening economic gap and quality of life.

Abhisit also noted that the agricultural sector's ability to generate income in relation to the country's GDP had dropped from 30 per cent to just 10 per cent. As a result, he said the country's future needs to be changed, and for this, its structure and system needs to be overhauled in order to include all sectors, including political and civil sectors.

Abhisit went on to say that the country badly needed three key changes - a better education system, a reformed economic system and policies that are aimed at sustainability and good governance.

Surin said all 65 million Thais needed to realise that they play a key role in setting the country's direction, and work out exactly where the country should go by 2020.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Democrats-plan-new-national-blueprint-30199683.html

Nothing there about amnesties or pardons. Its about him trying to make the democrats electable.

[Buchholz]

I wonder about the term 'ordinary protesters'

The ordinary yellow shirt protesters all went home peacefully while the ordinary red protesters who hadn't seen the light and already gone home were fed watered and bussed home at the expense of the long suffering tax payer.

These 'ordinary protesters' were never charged with anything so therefore don't need any amnesty.

So who all are they trying to get out of trouble?

The lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples

http://www.thaivisa....ace-threatened/

.

Didn't that lengthy list turn out to be about 10/15 people, not exactly representative, when at one time there was at 100,000 protesters there, or do you have a different view of maths to me. Even 10/15 out of 3/400 in prison doesn't look that high to me.

Try reading the posts... it will save on unnecessary replies.

He asked who was eligible for amnesty.

It's not your 100,000 Red Shirts at rallies, same as it's not the 100,000 yellow shirts at their rallies.

.

[muttley]

Yes, UPI... now then do have anything from them that was written longer than 3 days after event that would provide a truer picture of what was actually involved in the months of mayhem accumulating in 2009 and again in 2010?

You know, something the link you had to be prompted to supply .. something like a year after the event?

.

You provide a link, you don't like mine, you say my sources are inane, why should I bust a gut. You don't believe me OK, I'll live with that.

Oh and if you going to alter my post at least have the decency of pointing it out. Isn't there a rule about that?

[metisdead]

Just like swatting troublesome flies - off topic posts have been removed.

[muttley]

I wonder about the term 'ordinary protesters'

The ordinary yellow shirt protesters all went home peacefully while the ordinary red protesters who hadn't seen the light and already gone home were fed watered and bussed home at the expense of the long suffering tax payer.

These 'ordinary protesters' were never charged with anything so therefore don't need any amnesty.

So who all are they trying to get out of trouble?

The lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples

http://www.thaivisa....ace-threatened/

.

Didn't that lengthy list turn out to be about 10/15 people, not exactly representative, when at one time there was at 100,000 protesters there, or do you have a different view of maths to me. Even 10/15 out of 3/400 in prison doesn't look that high to me.

Try reading the posts... it will save on unnecessary replies.

He asked who was eligible for amnesty.

It's not your 100,000 Red Shirts at rallies, same as it's not the 100,000 yellow shirts at their rallies.

.

Likewise, try reading the thread, saves unneccesary posts.

Who said the " lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples"

"of people eligible for amnesty".You did.

I would say that they most definitely aren't and was also pointing out the fallacy of your "long list".

[Buchholz]

The lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples

http://www.thaivisa....ace-threatened/

.

Didn't that lengthy list turn out to be about 10/15 people, not exactly representative, when at one time there was at 100,000 protesters there, or do you have a different view of maths to me. Even 10/15 out of 3/400 in prison doesn't look that high to me.

Try reading the posts... it will save on unnecessary replies.

He asked who was eligible for amnesty.

It's not your 100,000 Red Shirts at rallies, same as it's not the 100,000 yellow shirts at their rallies.

.

Who said the " lengthy list of various Red Shirt Bombers and Red Shirt Arsonists in this thread are examples"

"of people eligible for amnesty".You did.

I would say that they most definitely aren't

Why do you feel they are not eligible?

.

[MILT]

Is that a thorn crown I see on Thaskin's head? There are big changes on the horizon (2015) when the landscape of Asia changes. Thailand is probably needing to clean all this mess up before the big day. Thaskin needs to get back fairly soon or it might be to late for his return to the political power seat. There is huge money still to be made before real checks and balances happen. Thailand is not the only country on the list that needs to look at corruption, graft, nepotism, did I leave anything out? I hope there will be some kind of (recon silly nation) soon.

In the meantime will someone tell me "now for something completely different"

[rubl]

Is that a thorn crown I see on Thaskin's head? There are big changes on the horizon (2015) when the landscape of Asia changes. Thailand is probably needing to clean all this mess up before the big day. Thaskin needs to get back fairly soon or it might be to late for his return to the political power seat. There is huge money still to be made before real checks and balances happen. Thailand is not the only country on the list that needs to look at corruption, graft, nepotism, did I leave anything out? I hope there will be some kind of (recon silly nation) soon.

In the meantime will someone tell me "now for something completely different"

And now for something completely different

"2013-02-05: Slippers of Napoleon's Sister Found"

http://www.livescience.com/26872-slippers-napoleon-sister-pauline.html