Development In Chiang Mai. You'd Better Sit Down.....

[a99az]

I drove past "The Benefits" condo site a while back. Made me laugh. Where do they get the names. Maybe only Brits understand. Where do I sign on?

For a glimpse of Chiang Mai in the future, look at La Paz

Theres a moo ban not from us, the name... "Richy Rich Land"

nearly fell off my bike the first time I rode past it.

Can you imagine telling someone your address

[koosdeboer]

Has anyone heard any updates on what is going to happen with the Amari Rincome Hotel on the corner of Huay Kaew and Nimmanhaemin?

I've been told that it's owned by a bank.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[trainman34014]

Sadly the same thing is happening on most parts of the Planet. In 1988 I moved away from the South East of England 'Rat Race' to the South West; Somerset, which was still then 'Sleepy Hollow' in comparison to where I came from. My original idea was to retire there but within 10 years the concrete and madness caught up with me and the beauty all around me vanished as I watched. When I came to Chiang Mai just over 5 years ago it was a very different place to what it is now and even living out in the Boonies doesn't mean you are safe from the tentacles of so called 'progress'. The Paddy's are vanishing fast under yet more concrete which creeps like a paralysis over the entire area. Very sad but I will not move again in search of greener pastures as I know full well that unless I can keep running and live forever, 'progress' will catch up with me wherever I go.

As it has previously been said; we can only do our best to enjoy what we've got and I for one hope that a crash comes soon and slows down the ugly nature of many of these developments.

[dave2]

re

Build it and they will come!!

when ?

how long has hillside 4 been built and this condo sat empty ?

dave2

[Greenside]

I wonder what the price per m² was at the launch and also whether the investor has been paying service charges for all this time. It would be interesting to see if it has been a worthwhile investment if they get, say, 4M for it.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Greenside

[tango]

Recently bought a 4Bed-5bath home near the city a few km near Meechok plaza, changing the proferred plan from a 3Bed-2bath to 4 Bedrooms-ensuite plus a guest bath. Build started last July. I lucked in, as in scanning the few remaining lots in many new developments, my eye caught a double empty plot of 130+TW at the end of a cul de sac at the back away from the morning-evening traffic. The foreign buyer who had bought years ago wanted out at the original B7500/TW price. Deposit made that day and paid in full the next.

Had been round to MoobahnSiripornGardenHome 10 at the time, expensive, as land there is double their other projects but with a glassed-corner 'modern'-take but smallish, only 3 or 4 at the time were spoken for. Visited last week and all but 3 or 4 have been sold. While surprised that they are essentially sold out and so quickly, the company laments that the land prices in CMai have escalated to the point where they are having difficulty buying another sector.

BTW, Thai folks are not into 'used' houses or condos, especially those like the one above which although possibly 'new' as in 'not lived in' has a certain dated look.

Closer to the city just past Toyota on the road to Mae Rim, beside the National Bank, prices start at 14 Million Baht and they seem pleased with contracts to date.

All the houses, in a new subdivision down the road at the junction of the newish police station opposite Toyota, sold out immediately at 2.3 to 3 Million Baht; nicely planned and laid out, handy the super at the junction before Rimping, mostly Thai.

I really do not think the average Thai would exchange such nice, relatively inexpensive, new homes now being offered near here and Meechok Plaza for a dull, noisy condo, and they are all noisy as one after another they are redesigned: most come with only a toilet and shower - no kitchen etc.

I am not only amazed at construction underway in Chiangmai, but at the fact that most new housing developments are quickly sold out. Many are out Meechok way and are now handy the many newly under construction mega centers - no need to get wrapped around the traffic axle in central CMai.

If you are considering buying, get out and check these new builds soonest, before you're forced to do a North American-style commute. Noticed too, the rentals within CMai for anything worthwhile has climbed into the B30,000 and up range. No doubt to cover their mortgages. FWIW

Edited February 16, 2013 by tango

[doji]

Yes "Build it and they will come!"

Haha...check these out_________This is for "D-condo Campus Resort" - the first Condo in Chiangmai by Sansiri co.th

Last September...People were willing to wait in line "at 3am", just to get the ticket "to get in the sale office" whenever it open in the morning. Some even camped out in a tent !!! ,,,funny stuff. These are people who were ready and willing to buy "presale-off plan". Don't see too many farangs here.

They were 546 units all "SOLD OUT" in 1.5 hrs !!!

[canuckamuck]

Got to be a lot of speculators buying these places. Bubble bubble bubble.

[haybilly]

What Tango says may well be true--but, the Condo market will probably always have a certain customer base--foreign buyers with no Thai partner who are unwilling to buy/lease with the 'Company Ownership' option--'farang' who can't buy land will always, sadly, be drawn to Condos--until the Law gets sensible--as it is in Malaysia, and the Rest of the World.

[heybruce]

Recently bought a 4Bed-5bath home near the city a few km near Meechok plaza, changing the proferred plan from a 3Bed-2bath to 4 Bedrooms-ensuite plus a guest bath. Build started last July. I lucked in, as in scanning the few remaining lots in many new developments, my eye caught a double empty plot of 130+TW at the end of a cul de sac at the back away from the morning-evening traffic. The foreign buyer who had bought years ago wanted out at the original B7500/TW price. Deposit made that day and paid in full the next.

Had been round to MoobahnSiripornGardenHome 10 at the time, expensive, as land there is double their other projects but with a glassed-corner 'modern'-take but smallish, only 3 or 4 at the time were spoken for. Visited last week and all but 3 or 4 have been sold. While surprised that they are essentially sold out and so quickly, the company laments that the land prices in CMai have escalated to the point where they are having difficulty buying another sector.

BTW, Thai folks are not into 'used' houses or condos, especially those like the one above which although possibly 'new' as in 'not lived in' has a certain dated look.

Closer to the city just past Toyota on the road to Mae Rim, beside the National Bank, prices start at 14 Million Baht and they seem pleased with contracts to date.

All the houses, in a new subdivision down the road at the junction of the newish police station opposite Toyota, sold out immediately at 2.3 to 3 Million Baht; nicely planned and laid out, handy the super at the junction before Rimping, mostly Thai.

I really do not think the average Thai would exchange such nice, relatively inexpensive, new homes now being offered near here and Meechok Plaza for a dull, noisy condo, and they are all noisy as one after another they are redesigned: most come with only a toilet and shower - no kitchen etc.

I am not only amazed at construction underway in Chiangmai, but at the fact that most new housing developments are quickly sold out. Many are out Meechok way and are now handy the many newly under construction mega centers - no need to get wrapped around the traffic axle in central CMai.

If you are considering buying, get out and check these new builds soonest, before you're forced to do a North American-style commute. Noticed too, the rentals within CMai for anything worthwhile has climbed into the B30,000 and up range. No doubt to cover their mortgages. FWIW

You must have very high standards. I'm paying less than half that for a moderately large (76 square meters) modern, comfortable condo in a convenient location. I don't have parking for a car, but I don't have a car and don't want one while I live in the city.

It's also worth noting that those of us who aren't Thai need either a wife or lawyer we trust in order to "own" land. Both options entail certain costs and risks.

[happysanook]

What concerns me is not what's going on inside the ringroads (that's gone, going to be built on), but what's going on in the countryside. Uncontrolled development, no planning strategy. Buy rice field, do what you want with it. Chiang Mai urgently needs some kind of "green belt" policy. In a few years it's all going to be gone. Real shame Hwy 1317 heading east is being widened out towards Mae On, the roadside trees are being felled already. Once that is finished the developers will take over. Actually, they're taking over already. There will be no more attraction to the valley. Then, they'll start building on the hillsides.

I live 2 hours outside Chiang mai in the lamphun countryside and there is construction and renovating going on all over the place.

It's amusing to see all the farang complaining about not having this or that Western convenience, or wishing for this or that Western convenience... You can NOT have it both ways. Cheap, simple, easy living do NOT go hand in hand with shopping malls, cheeseburgers and 10MB internet connections. At least in the long run they don't. Some people may be able to find a happy medium and live between the two worlds.

The roads in CM are absolutely terrible traffic wise and are exponentially getting worse... I hate to think about 5 years from now...

China blowing up hasn't helped things. The amount of Chinese tourists is absolutely staggering compared to just a few years back and is bringing in tons of dough to CM....

[scorecard]

What concerns me is not what's going on inside the ringroads (that's gone, going to be built on), but what's going on in the countryside. Uncontrolled development, no planning strategy. Buy rice field, do what you want with it. Chiang Mai urgently needs some kind of "green belt" policy. In a few years it's all going to be gone. Real shame Hwy 1317 heading east is being widened out towards Mae On, the roadside trees are being felled already. Once that is finished the developers will take over. Actually, they're taking over already. There will be no more attraction to the valley. Then, they'll start building on the hillsides.

It's basically very simple - you cannot stop the tide coming in, and I'm afraid nothing in the world is going to prevent Chiang Mai becoming more crowded, more polluted, more noisy, less healthy, hopelessly overbuilt, and alas, ending up as a charmless, Lanna-less, traffic-choked and smelly city - probably living predominantly off Chinese tourists spilling over the border in big busloads.

It's called development, progress, aka greed. And it's happening everywhere.

That may scare residents like myself away who came here eons ago seeking peace (green outskirts of Chiang Rai already on my next list, but the same thing will likely happen there in a decade or less) but - that's not really the point.

Fact is, many young people actually ENJOY the emerging horror story that is Chiang Mai, in the same way as they enjoy the tragedy of ruined, exploited Koh Samui - which myself and many other Golden Oldies remember as a pristine paradise, where in the sixties, there were no roads, and no scheduled ferries - you hitched a ride on a fishing boat.

Perhaps in fifty years, today's IPod-equipped backpackers will tell internally-wired globally-connected teenagers how they adventurously 'discovered' the 'real' Chiang Mai, way back then, in 2013.

In short, all is relative, and everything is subject to change. So let's just enjoy what we have today.

For as long as it lasts.

Except one thing still missing, a proper, modern, and coordinated public transport system.

Seems to me CM is ideal for a multi line light monorail system, same height as BTS but a lighter system such as in Kuala Lumpur.

[scorecard]

Honestly--though, the traffic build up in the last 12 months is horrific--I have seen more actual smashes, rear-end shunts and near-misses, in the last month than I care to think about--even very nearly became one of these statistics but for superior ABS and higher intervention--what has happened to encourage such lunacy?? I dread the morning school ride these days.

Thats' why we chose the school first before we looked for a house.

Luckily we got lucky on both points, we only have a 10 minute drive home to school and return.

[hellodolly]

What concerns me is not what's going on inside the ringroads (that's gone, going to be built on), but what's going on in the countryside. Uncontrolled development, no planning strategy. Buy rice field, do what you want with it. Chiang Mai urgently needs some kind of "green belt" policy. In a few years it's all going to be gone. Real shame Hwy 1317 heading east is being widened out towards Mae On, the roadside trees are being felled already. Once that is finished the developers will take over. Actually, they're taking over already. There will be no more attraction to the valley. Then, they'll start building on the hillsides.

I live 2 hours outside Chiang mai in the lamphun countryside and there is construction and renovating going on all over the place.

It's amusing to see all the farang complaining about not having this or that Western convenience, or wishing for this or that Western convenience... You can NOT have it both ways. Cheap, simple, easy living do NOT go hand in hand with shopping malls, cheeseburgers and 10MB internet connections. At least in the long run they don't. Some people may be able to find a happy medium and live between the two worlds.

The roads in CM are absolutely terrible traffic wise and are exponentially getting worse... I hate to think about 5 years from now...

China blowing up hasn't helped things. The amount of Chinese tourists is absolutely staggering compared to just a few years back and is bringing in tons of dough to CM....

Look to the Chinese buying in Chiang Mai. That would start a real boom.

The result would be because of the trafic people would be looking at condos near all the amenities.

[MESmith]

What concerns me is not what's going on inside the ringroads (that's gone, going to be built on), but what's going on in the countryside. Uncontrolled development, no planning strategy. Buy rice field, do what you want with it. Chiang Mai urgently needs some kind of "green belt" policy. In a few years it's all going to be gone. Real shame Hwy 1317 heading east is being widened out towards Mae On, the roadside trees are being felled already. Once that is finished the developers will take over. Actually, they're taking over already. There will be no more attraction to the valley. Then, they'll start building on the hillsides.

I live 2 hours outside Chiang mai in the lamphun countryside and there is construction and renovating going on all over the place.

It's amusing to see all the farang complaining about not having this or that Western convenience, or wishing for this or that Western convenience... You can NOT have it both ways. Cheap, simple, easy living do NOT go hand in hand with shopping malls, cheeseburgers and 10MB internet connections. At least in the long run they don't. Some people may be able to find a happy medium and live between the two worlds.

The roads in CM are absolutely terrible traffic wise and are exponentially getting worse... I hate to think about 5 years from now...

China blowing up hasn't helped things. The amount of Chinese tourists is absolutely staggering compared to just a few years back and is bringing in tons of dough to CM....

I live about 10 km from Varee School. SE of CM out in the rice fields. Don't want any shopping malls or western conveniences. The rice fields around us are being excavated to provide the "fill" for developments along 1317. Suburbia is approaching. Comparing google earth images of 5 years ago & today is scary. A few years from now I'll be living in suburbia . Hopefully our land will have increased in value so we can sell up & decamp further out.

Edited February 16, 2013 by MESmith

[scorecard]

Got to be a lot of speculators buying these places. Bubble bubble bubble.

Very likely true.

Another associated point, a fairly credible CM property agent told us that between 10 - 20% of mortgages for house and land and condos are defaulted quickly, therefore there is a big activity in reclaimed houses and condos, and there are plenty of speculators who focus entirely and seriosuly on buying defaulted properties.

Said agent mentioned he's aware of more than one Thai person and more than one farang person who watch these properties closely, make offers, wait, make further offers, etc., and in many cases buy properties at very cheap prices / bargain basement prices.

Banks of course don't want to be property agents and some will sell defaulted properties to just cover the defaulted payments and clear the loan. Not necessarily very ethical but probably legal.

[Happyman108]

My Hips condo behind Big C extra and near to the coming Platinum Fashion Mall is going fast....1st project sold out and completed, 2nd project not even start building also sold out.........3rd project (2,3 & 4 same location) left few units and 4th project (last block for this area) will be opening soon, and expected to be gone fast especially good unit facing pool view.

So far not seeing much Chinese buyer yet, but for sure going to be higher price for future project if more foreigner is buying it. I know of some Thai friends just buy and keep it, take as holiday home or just empty it and keep as an asset, renting it out is not an option and not neccessory for them......same goes to the China gang.

[Ruperts]

Bangkok is drowning in pollution, traffic as well as seawater. Doesn't take a great leap of imagination to consider that if 4 million Bangkok Thais are looking for a new place to live, a few hundred thousand of them might choose Chiang Mai. Not sure Chinese tourists or Thaksin have anything to do with it, and god only knows how the guy earlier managed find some way to blame young western backpackers. I'm sure this is all in preparation for some significant internal migration in the next decade or so. If done correctly, Chiang Mai could become a fantastic modern city. But it probably won't be done correctly. What's Lampang like? Is there a Loi Kroh Rd?

[Virtualrecluse]

the link on the first post to www.skyscrapercity.com elicits a malware alert from Google Chrome. has anyone else encountered this?

[Greenside]

My Avira software says it's OK and Firefox doesn't object. Sounds like a false alert.

[heybruce]

Bangkok is drowning in pollution, traffic as well as seawater. Doesn't take a great leap of imagination to consider that if 4 million Bangkok Thais are looking for a new place to live, a few hundred thousand of them might choose Chiang Mai. Not sure Chinese tourists or Thaksin have anything to do with it, and god only knows how the guy earlier managed find some way to blame young western backpackers. I'm sure this is all in preparation for some significant internal migration in the next decade or so. If done correctly, Chiang Mai could become a fantastic modern city. But it probably won't be done correctly. What's Lampang like? Is there a Loi Kroh Rd?

Bangkok residents buying some place to escape to--that's the only explanation I've read other than a bubble that makes sense. Most of the buyers seem to be Thai. I'm still betting it's a bubble, perhaps fueled by slick marketing in Bangkok. It doesn't really matter to me, if there's no bubble and the population of Chaing Mai rapidly expands and overwhelms the already overstretched city infrastructure, I'll leave. If there is a bubble which pops with a resulting drop in prices, I might buy something. I'll probably just keep renting though, I like the flexibility and I've had no problem finding places I like at reasonable prices (plus I don't need a Thai wife to rent).

[nikster]

Some serious money has come to Chiang Mai. I'm pretty sure it won't tolerate the smog from February to May so at least some good may come from it.

That's what the air con is for.

Moneyed (eg educated) Thais might dislike the pollution almost as much as foreigners but they're not going to stop the entire north of Thailand, middle of Thailand, east of Thailand, Burma and Laos from burning their fields and forests.

I am amazed at all the development - jesus.

Edited February 17, 2013 by nikster

[nikster]

Bangkok is drowning in pollution, traffic as well as seawater. Doesn't take a great leap of imagination to consider that if 4 million Bangkok Thais are looking for a new place to live, a few hundred thousand of them might choose Chiang Mai. Not sure Chinese tourists or Thaksin have anything to do with it, and god only knows how the guy earlier managed find some way to blame young western backpackers. I'm sure this is all in preparation for some significant internal migration in the next decade or so. If done correctly, Chiang Mai could become a fantastic modern city. But it probably won't be done correctly. What's Lampang like? Is there a Loi Kroh Rd?

Jesus. Best explanation I heard so far... I mean rich BKK Thais buying whatever just because they have the money - that can't be all of it, there's got to be plenty of normal people snapping up houses and condos.

I think that there's a lot of local turnaround too. Look around Chiang Mai - there's OLD houses everywhere; there's OLD moo baans. What normal middle class Thai wants to live in one of those old places? None. It's the style of property here in Thailand. A house bought 20 or even 10 years ago is not interesting to a normal Thai buyer. Those are old, used, and nobody cares. So the total of new developments may seem a lot, and it is a lot, but there's also loads of old kind of unusable properties around. And Thais prefer moo baans over building their own house, by and large. I think there must be lots of local demand.

I am looking for a house as well and all the nicer developments are selling out really quick.

A new trend seems to be moo baans that start at 10M Baht+....

Doesn't take a genius to realize that the traffic situation is going to get worse at pretty much as the same speed as the new developments are popping up. Fast, that is.

Edited February 17, 2013 by nikster

[Greenside]

If the driving force here is selling to BKK residents as retirement homes rental opportunities or long term investments, then the resulting issues may well be the same as the mid 90's. I can cite at least one big housing development which enjoyed a high level of plot sales but unfortunately almost all through the Bangkok office. Once bought, the "investors", most of whom probably never even visited the area, sat back to watch their assets appreciate but neglected to pay the service charges - possibly on the assumption that they would pay when they got their expected capital gain at sale time. Unfortunately almost all their neighbours were of the same mind, so setting in motion a spiral of neglected infrastructure, falling prices, loss of enthusiasm and bank repossessions. The only people who made money out of this were probably the original developers.

[Beetlejuice]

I think that this is what it`s all about.

They property developers are aiming their sites towards the upper class Thais and well to dos of South East Asia, while because of the restrictive laws imposed on Westerners, the farangs continue to purchase land and houses hiding behind their wives or other Thai partners or buy/lease condominiums at the lower end price range on the property scales.

In a way this is of benefit to Chiang Mai because it brings certain areas up market, but the down side for some is that it can push up the prices. Especially if after the completion of these developments people suddenly find themselves living in middleclass areas and then all the costs increase, including the cost of living.

For me personally I welcome the developments, which have a knock on affect of pushing the shoestring farangs and the lower income bracket Thais out further into the outer areas.

I guess that in the next 10 years, perhaps sooner, Chiang Mai will lose it`s reputation as being a cheap grazing ground for the western escapees and only those of some wealth will be able to afford to live here.

What concerns me is not what's going on inside the ringroads (that's gone, going to be built on), but what's going on in the countryside. Uncontrolled development, no planning strategy. Buy rice field, do what you want with it. Chiang Mai urgently needs some kind of "green belt" policy. In a few years it's all going to be gone. Real shame Hwy 1317 heading east is being widened out towards Mae On, the roadside trees are being felled already. Once that is finished the developers will take over. Actually, they're taking over already. There will be no more attraction to the valley. Then, they'll start building on the hillsides.

I live 2 hours outside Chiang mai in the lamphun countryside and there is construction and renovating going on all over the place.

It's amusing to see all the farang complaining about not having this or that Western convenience, or wishing for this or that Western convenience... You can NOT have it both ways. Cheap, simple, easy living do NOT go hand in hand with shopping malls, cheeseburgers and 10MB internet connections. At least in the long run they don't. Some people may be able to find a happy medium and live between the two worlds.

The roads in CM are absolutely terrible traffic wise and are exponentially getting worse... I hate to think about 5 years from now...

China blowing up hasn't helped things. The amount of Chinese tourists is absolutely staggering compared to just a few years back and is bringing in tons of dough to CM....

Look to the Chinese buying in Chiang Mai. That would start a real boom.

The result would be because of the trafic people would be looking at condos near all the amenities.

I think that this is what it`s all about.

They property developers are aiming their sites towards the upper class Thais and well to dos of South East Asia, while because of the restrictive laws imposed on Westerners, the farangs continue to purchase land and houses hiding behind their wives or other Thai partners or buy/lease condominiums at the lower end price range on the property scales.

In a way this is of benefit to Chiang Mai because it brings certain areas up market, but the down side for some is that it can push up the prices. Especially if after the completion of these developments people suddenly find themselves living in middleclass areas and then all the costs increase, including the cost of living.

For me personally I welcome the developments, which have a knock on affect of pushing the shoestring farangs and the lower income bracket Thais out further into the outer areas.

I guess that in the next 10 years, perhaps sooner, Chiang Mai will lose it`s reputation as being a cheap grazing ground for the western escapees and only those of some wealth will be able to afford to live here.

[MESmith]

I guess that in the next 10 years, perhaps sooner, Chiang Mai will lose it`s reputation as being a cheap grazing ground for the western escapees and only those of some wealth will be able to afford to live here.

It will also lose it's reputation as a nice place to come & live, once it's just one continuous urban sprawl with even more traffic pollution......

[hopdafru]

didn't read the whole thread.

Could it be that all these trillion US$ sitting in china and elsewhere are being 'dumped' onto various investments in Asia/Africa (including Thailand) as trust in USD is falling?

just wondering... thoughts?

[PoodMaiDai]

I went back to Chiang Mai last week after moving away about a year ago. Unbelievable amount of construction, and total gridlock inside the superhighway. Not regretting the move to Chiang Rai at all.

How many years do you think you have before it catches up to you in Chaing Rai? I'm guessing in less than 10 years it will find you up there.

Over development alongside of total lack of planning for it is ruining Thailand, one place at a time. It's sad really.

[canuckamuck]

I went back to Chiang Mai last week after moving away about a year ago. Unbelievable amount of construction, and total gridlock inside the superhighway. Not regretting the move to Chiang Rai at all.

How many years do you think you have before it catches up to you in Chaing Rai? I'm guessing in less than 10 years it will find you up there.

Over development alongside of total lack of planning for it is ruining Thailand, one place at a time. It's sad really.

Chiang Rai Province, not town. Currently it is a 45 minute drive in the twistys just to get to a main highway from my house. So I think i have more than 10 years before urban sprawl becomes an issue.

But now would be a good time for Chiang Rai town to make a long term plan, so they can attempt to avoid some of the infrastructure issues happening to CM. And they could start with a fat ring road.

[elektrified]

Sadly the same thing is happening on most parts of the Planet. In 1988 I moved away from the South East of England 'Rat Race' to the South West; Somerset, which was still then 'Sleepy Hollow' in comparison to where I came from. My original idea was to retire there but within 10 years the concrete and madness caught up with me and the beauty all around me vanished as I watched. When I came to Chiang Mai just over 5 years ago it was a very different place to what it is now and even living out in the Boonies doesn't mean you are safe from the tentacles of so called 'progress'. The Paddy's are vanishing fast under yet more concrete which creeps like a paralysis over the entire area. Very sad but I will not move again in search of greener pastures as I know full well that unless I can keep running and live forever, 'progress' will catch up with me wherever I go.

As it has previously been said; we can only do our best to enjoy what we've got and I for one hope that a crash comes soon and slows down the ugly nature of many of these developments.

I hope the crash comes soon too because I hate what is going on here. All the natural beauty is disappearing and being replaced with concrete.