Thai Suspect Reenacts Assault Of British Teacher, 20, But Claims He Had Consensual Sex With Her

[OzMick]

Rape is a terrible thing, I have a 26-year-old daughter and know how I would feel if (God forbid) something awful like this happened to her. But can the law say that having sex with an inebriated woman is always going to be classified as rape? Because the woman is not in full control of her senses and may consent to having sex while being vulnerable to suggestion, but if sober would never consent or participate in such acts or have second thoughts about her sitution?

Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

What happens if a woman becomes submissive due to alcohol or drugs, than awakes the morning after not remembering the full circumstances of her situation the night before and then concludes that she was probably raped?

Considering the circumstances where the woman could hardly recall herself the actual events that lead up to her sexual activity with the accused, than there must be a fine line drawn here as to the full facts of events that took place on the said evening, because 4 men’s lives could be destroyed here just on the account of this woman’s testimony, a person who only had vague recollections of this incident.

The mind boggles on this one.

I can't help wondering if your attitude would be the same if it was you who had become intoxicated and somebody decided they fancied your bum?

[candypants]

chooka, on 21 Feb 2013 - 10:58, said:

In Australia Drunkeness is not a defence to criminal activity:thumbsup: It may have an influence on sentencing but is not a defence. ie: he may escape a prison sentence but still convicted.

of course not.

If it were, no one would EVER be charged with anything.

[candypants]

Beetlejuice, on 22 Feb 2013 - 01:23, said:

Rape is a terrible thing, I have a 26-year-old daughter and know how I would feel if (God forbid) something awful like this happened to her. But can the law say that having sex with an inebriated woman is always going to be classified as rape? Because the woman is not in full control of her senses and may consent to having sex while being vulnerable to suggestion, but if sober would never consent or participate in such acts or have second thoughts about her sitution?

Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

What happens if a woman becomes submissive due to alcohol or drugs, than awakes the morning after not remembering the full circumstances of her situation the night before and then concludes that she was probably raped?

Considering the circumstances where the woman could hardly recall herself the actual events that lead up to her sexual activity with the accused, than there must be a fine line drawn here as to the full facts of events that took place on the said evening, because 4 men’s lives could be destroyed here just on the account of this woman’s testimony, a person who only had vague recollections of this incident.

The mind boggles on this one.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2009/09/17/false-rape-accusations-and-rape-culture/

interesting perspective on rape culture taken from the slew of false accusation links that were posted above.

i would say it stands as appropriate comment on the twaddle in BJ's post

Edited February 22, 2013 by candypants

[tominbkk]

Rape is a terrible thing, I have a 26-year-old daughter and know how I would feel if (God forbid) something awful like this happened to her. But can the law say that having sex with an inebriated woman is always going to be classified as rape? Because the woman is not in full control of her senses and may consent to having sex while being vulnerable to suggestion, but if sober would never consent or participate in such acts or have second thoughts about her sitution?

Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

What happens if a woman becomes submissive due to alcohol or drugs, than awakes the morning after not remembering the full circumstances of her situation the night before and then concludes that she was probably raped?

Considering the circumstances where the woman could hardly recall herself the actual events that lead up to her sexual activity with the accused, than there must be a fine line drawn here as to the full facts of events that took place on the said evening, because 4 men’s lives could be destroyed here just on the account of this woman’s testimony, a person who only had vague recollections of this incident.

The mind boggles on this one.

"Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

This comment of yours reminds me of the muslim cleric in Australia who said, "If western women do not wear the burka then they deserve to be raped and are fair game and it would in no way be the mans fault as she is asking for it."

So are you saying that women should never have to act responsibly and that anything that happens to them is always going to be somebody else's fault?

If I got blind drunk and passed out on the street and someone stole my wallet, kicked me in the head, had their way with me, etc., I would be embarrassed as hell but would also know that my negligence to acting safely at least partly caused what happened to me.

I totally abhor rape and of course the guy needs to suffer for what he did. I just don't understand why so many posters are putting her up on a pedestal like she is some kind of angel who was pulled down from her cloud.

I knew a Canadian woman here in BKK that I worked with who had real bad issues with alcohol...she would routinely black out in the bars by 9 or 10 o'clock. She would end up taking guys home ( I think usually Thai guys ) and being blacked out would have sex with them, pass out, and several times woke up in the morning minus whatever money and valuables she had in her room gone. She would complain about these guys, and if I or other men tried to bring up the fact that the problem was her indiscretion caused by her problem with alcohol, she would yell at us that we were women haters and she didn't deserve what happened to her, and that men always took advantage of her. An extreme case, but I think it reveals a certain attitude that quite a few people hold - that no matter what a woman may do or position they may put themselves into, it is never their fault for what happens to them.

[Polkadotskies69]

"Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?"

What exactly are you saying here??? That those who drink are asking to be raped? Might as well tell all women to cover up when they go out as well as it will be their fault if the rapee cannot control themselves.

Very old world view you have here.

Utter nonsense.

Victims of rape should not be chastised on what they were wearing or drinking at the time. It's the dirty little boys that couldn't keep their zippers up who need to be punished.

[Sayonarax]

He is not a look kreung or even a look keung! I just keep thinking that if these events did not keep happening what the hell would you pundits do with all your free time?

​You signed up, so look whose talking now.

[chooka]

Where is the Teddy Bear they use in these re enactment?

It's ok people you can stop looking I found the Teddy Bear, she is actually on another assignment in Pattaya.

[harrycallahan]

Rape is a terrible thing...

I can't help wondering if your attitude would be the same if it was you who had become intoxicated and somebody decided they fancied your bum?

Or something like this?

The family of a Sydney hotel worker is in shock over allegations he sexually assaulted a series of drunk young men while they were passed out, a court has heard.

Hoe Fatt Lee, 58, has been arrested twice in a week and charged with performing oral sex without consent on four heavily intoxicated victims

[Baerboxer]

-jamhar-

Thanks for your LIKE.

Regarding -Medical Exam-, if she was so extremely drunk, intoxicated, under the influence from whatever,

than its plausible,

that her "resistance", was not in a level, which left strong marks on her body.

(As far as I know, women get even told, not to resist to much against a rape, so not to risk to be heavenly beaten, even killed.)

But that is a different case here, with a heavy intoxicated young woman.

But, to use such a situation, to get your "satisfaction" as a man, is not the "fine English style!" as we say in my home country Austria and

should be punished!

In fact in England it is considered rape to take advantage of a drunken woman. If a woman is incapable of saying "yes or no" and a man has sex, she can accuse him of rape and he will be prosecuted.

That's an issue because in many other countries if you get drunk and taken advantage of then it's your problem and responsibilty. It may appear like the Thai police are taking this as a joke to her, but they probably view it as a consequnece of her own behaviour. Different world views - but if you want to travel you have to adjust your behaviour to fit with the local view.

At least it is being investigated and it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[rixalex]

Rape is a terrible thing, I have a 26-year-old daughter and know how I would feel if (God forbid) something awful like this happened to her. But can the law say that having sex with an inebriated woman is always going to be classified as rape? Because the woman is not in full control of her senses and may consent to having sex while being vulnerable to suggestion, but if sober would never consent or participate in such acts or have second thoughts about her sitution?

Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

What happens if a woman becomes submissive due to alcohol or drugs, than awakes the morning after not remembering the full circumstances of her situation the night before and then concludes that she was probably raped?

Considering the circumstances where the woman could hardly recall herself the actual events that lead up to her sexual activity with the accused, than there must be a fine line drawn here as to the full facts of events that took place on the said evening, because 4 men’s lives could be destroyed here just on the account of this woman’s testimony, a person who only had vague recollections of this incident.

The mind boggles on this one.

I generally agree although i think perhaps you have left yourself open to be vilified by those who have been quick to jump on the bandwagon and misinterpret your views.

Nobody deserves to be raped, any more than anybody deserves to be burgled, robbed, assaulted, mugged, molested, or have any other sort of crime committed against them, and the perpetrators of those crimes, are as equally guilty and as equally deserving of our complete contempt no matter what the actions of the victim were. I'm sure you agree and that is how i read what you were saying - others didn't seem to.

As responsible adults though, we can all taking precautions that can help significantly reduce the risk of ourselves becoming victims. If you leave your home with all the windows open for example, the chances of your house being burgled will go up. Doesn't mean that anybody has a right to burgle your home, or that if someone does, they aren't as guilty as the criminal who burgles the home that had windows closed, but it does mean that you have acted with a serious lack of common sense.

Acknowledging that a young woman traveling to a foreign land far from her home, getting p1ssed out of her head to the point of being refused entry to certain bars, arguing loudly and publicly with her boyfriend, ending up tottering about alone at 3am with little control of her senses, was not great judgement or common sense, and contributed to the situation she ended up in, is not in any way blaming her for someone committing a crime against her, it is simply acknowledging her lack of common sense here and how it is regrettable she didn't behave more responsibly and in the way any decent parent would teach their daughter.

Lastly, you make a good point about the lives of the men involved here. None of us were there, and none of us really know what happened. Rushing to conclude with complete and utter certainty that a man is a rapist, is as reprehensible as rushing to conclude with complete and utter certainty that a woman was not a victim of rape. If the man is proven guilty, and lets hope the case can be proven one way or the other - although i share other people's concerns that it won't be - he should be punished as severely as possible and the lack of common sense shown by the victim should not in any way whatsoever mitigate his disgusting crime. Everyone needs to wait until things are proven before making these utterly certain conclusions that have such great bearing on people's lives.

[Beetlejuice]

"Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?"

What exactly are you saying here??? That those who drink are asking to be raped? Might as well tell all women to cover up when they go out as well as it will be their fault if the rapee cannot control themselves.

Very old world view you have here.

Utter nonsense.

Victims of rape should not be chastised on what they were wearing or drinking at the time. It's the dirty little boys that couldn't keep their zippers up who need to be punished.

Im not exactly saying anything and I will try to explain in a way that everyone can understand.

If you check out my post you will see that I am asking questions for opinions, as I said the mind boggles on this one.

It has not been confirmed yet that this woman was raped. If it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she was raped, than yes, hang the bastards, burn them at the stake, feed them to the crocodiles, whatever.

And this is the crux of the matter, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.

In my view this case is not cut and dry, so far it`s only words against word and Im not assuming anything, only evaluating what we know so far and all the possibilities revolving around this story.

If this girl did consent to having sex or became submissive because she was under the influence of drink or drugs or both, than whatever she participated in while in her inebriated state of mind has to be down to her own liability. For example, if I am over the drink limit while driving a vehicle and seriously injure myself or others, is the law going to say, due to limited reasoning of thought at the time, I cannot be held reasonable for my actions or any decisions that I made?

If on the other hand the girl was forcible held down and they had sex with her against her will, whether being drunk or sober, or the guys took advantage of her vulnerability because she was not fully conscious or completely unconscious due to the drink or drugs and unable to defend herself in that situation, than that has to be classified as rape.

Sorry, but I cannot explain myself any clearer than the above and everyone has to draw their own conclusions. My whole issue here is; BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Get it?

To answer our OzMick`s question, what if someone took advantage of my bum while I was drunk? My response to that is, if anyone`s that desperate, than good luck to them and may the lord have mercy on their soul, or a/holes to the lot of them in this case.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[ALFREDO]

The DNA test results will surely backup [or otherwise] her story. She claims to have been raped by two of the men - hence two different DNAs

She was drunk. a lot as it seems and there had been at least, two men when she had Sex with her, in her sight.

You want to much to believe the woman, now both men must have ejaculated on her! Man!

Let me ask you.

Why should she come up with that story, if she liked to have Sex with that man or both men?

What did she win now with that story, if she made it up?

Nobody would have known she had Sex, not her friend in Nakhon Sri Thammarat or her BF? in Bangkok.

[ALFREDO]

Suspect: Pongpatana Porsoi, 26, wearing a stab vest to protect him

Uhmm. To protect from female admirers? Probably not, they'd go for the nether regions :-)

So why did i instinctively cross my legs and bend over when i read this? lol

and as rubl pointed out, the safest place for him right now might be in jail.

Maybe, if some Scottish lads would be around, they could, also try, to get a different statement out of him!

The Thais not care at all in my opinion!

Edited February 22, 2013 by ALFREDO

[ALFREDO]

I knew a Canadian woman here in BKK that I worked with who had real bad issues with alcohol...she would routinely black out in the bars by 9 or 10 o'clock. She would end up taking guys home ( I think usually Thai guys ) and being blacked out would have sex with them, pass out, and several times woke up in the morning minus whatever money and valuables she had in her room gone. She would complain about these guys, and if I or other men tried to bring up the fact that the problem was her indiscretion caused by her problem with alcohol, she would yell at us that we were women haters and she didn't deserve what happened to her, and that men always took advantage of her. An extreme case, but I think it reveals a certain attitude that quite a few people hold - that no matter what a woman may do or position they may put themselves into, it is never their fault for what happens to them.

Ok, but she did not say, the men raped her and ran to the police?

So, I see no comparison to the Thread.That is a completely different book, at least for me.

You must not bring a woman's story about that, "special irresponsibility", in connection with Sex, which sure happens to a women only few times, but,

happens every day many times to men in South East Asia, just change your words regarding Female to Male upstairs and it fits many of times in a year!

These men say than also, -How do I deserve, that the 'Ladies - Lady Boys" took advantage of my carelessness!

[chooka]

Rape is a terrible thing, I have a 26-year-old daughter and know how I would feel if (God forbid) something awful like this happened to her. But can the law say that having sex with an inebriated woman is always going to be classified as rape? Because the woman is not in full control of her senses and may consent to having sex while being vulnerable to suggestion, but if sober would never consent or participate in such acts or have second thoughts about her sitution?

Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

What happens if a woman becomes submissive due to alcohol or drugs, than awakes the morning after not remembering the full circumstances of her situation the night before and then concludes that she was probably raped?

Considering the circumstances where the woman could hardly recall herself the actual events that lead up to her sexual activity with the accused, than there must be a fine line drawn here as to the full facts of events that took place on the said evening, because 4 men’s lives could be destroyed here just on the account of this woman’s testimony, a person who only had vague recollections of this incident.

The mind boggles on this one.

"Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

This comment of yours reminds me of the muslim cleric in Australia who said, "If western women do not wear the burka then they deserve to be raped and are fair game and it would in no way be the mans fault as she is asking for it."

So are you saying that women should never have to act responsibly and that anything that happens to them is always going to be somebody else's fault?

If I got blind drunk and passed out on the street and someone stole my wallet, kicked me in the head, had their way with me, etc., I would be embarrassed as hell but would also know that my negligence to acting safely at least partly caused what happened to me.

I totally abhor rape and of course the guy needs to suffer for what he did. I just don't understand why so many posters are putting her up on a pedestal like she is some kind of angel who was pulled down from her cloud.

I knew a Canadian woman here in BKK that I worked with who had real bad issues with alcohol...she would routinely black out in the bars by 9 or 10 o'clock. She would end up taking guys home ( I think usually Thai guys ) and being blacked out would have sex with them, pass out, and several times woke up in the morning minus whatever money and valuables she had in her room gone. She would complain about these guys, and if I or other men tried to bring up the fact that the problem was her indiscretion caused by her problem with alcohol, she would yell at us that we were women haters and she didn't deserve what happened to her, and that men always took advantage of her. An extreme case, but I think it reveals a certain attitude that quite a few people hold - that no matter what a woman may do or position they may put themselves into, it is never their fault for what happens to them.

I was repeating a comment made by a Muslim Cleric. Yes I am sure that a lot of women act responsibly, but the cleric infered that if they did not wear a burka then they are being irresponsible and open slather for rape and it would be 100% thier fault.

Personally I believe and this is just my opinion, the rapist is 100% responsible for committing the crime. It is not a collaboration between the two parties. The courts do not divide up blame between the victim and the offender and say, I find you (defendant) 70% to blame for the rape so I will give you 70% of the punishment. I am sorry but I strongly believe that nothing diminishes the actions of a rapist.

[Beetlejuice]

Rape is a terrible thing, I have a 26-year-old daughter and know how I would feel if (God forbid) something awful like this happened to her. But can the law say that having sex with an inebriated woman is always going to be classified as rape? Because the woman is not in full control of her senses and may consent to having sex while being vulnerable to suggestion, but if sober would never consent or participate in such acts or have second thoughts about her sitution?

Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

What happens if a woman becomes submissive due to alcohol or drugs, than awakes the morning after not remembering the full circumstances of her situation the night before and then concludes that she was probably raped?

Considering the circumstances where the woman could hardly recall herself the actual events that lead up to her sexual activity with the accused, than there must be a fine line drawn here as to the full facts of events that took place on the said evening, because 4 mens lives could be destroyed here just on the account of this womans testimony, a person who only had vague recollections of this incident.

The mind boggles on this one.

"Firstly, does the woman not share any of the responsibility for her acts as she failed to safeguard her own security and safety by allowing herself to fall into a situation of unawareness with drink or drugs or whatever?

This comment of yours reminds me of the muslim cleric in Australia who said, "If western women do not wear the burka then they deserve to be raped and are fair game and it would in no way be the mans fault as she is asking for it."

So are you saying that women should never have to act responsibly and that anything that happens to them is always going to be somebody else's fault?

If I got blind drunk and passed out on the street and someone stole my wallet, kicked me in the head, had their way with me, etc., I would be embarrassed as hell but would also know that my negligence to acting safely at least partly caused what happened to me.

I totally abhor rape and of course the guy needs to suffer for what he did. I just don't understand why so many posters are putting her up on a pedestal like she is some kind of angel who was pulled down from her cloud.

I knew a Canadian woman here in BKK that I worked with who had real bad issues with alcohol...she would routinely black out in the bars by 9 or 10 o'clock. She would end up taking guys home ( I think usually Thai guys ) and being blacked out would have sex with them, pass out, and several times woke up in the morning minus whatever money and valuables she had in her room gone. She would complain about these guys, and if I or other men tried to bring up the fact that the problem was her indiscretion caused by her problem with alcohol, she would yell at us that we were women haters and she didn't deserve what happened to her, and that men always took advantage of her. An extreme case, but I think it reveals a certain attitude that quite a few people hold - that no matter what a woman may do or position they may put themselves into, it is never their fault for what happens to them.

I was repeating a comment made by a Muslim Cleric. Yes I am sure that a lot of women act responsibly, but the cleric infered that if they did not wear a burka then they are being irresponsible and open slather for rape and it would be 100% thier fault.

Personally I believe and this is just my opinion, the rapist is 100% responsible for committing the crime. It is not a collaboration between the two parties. The courts do not divide up blame between the victim and the offender and say, I find you (defendant) 70% to blame for the rape so I will give you 70% of the punishment. I am sorry but I strongly believe that nothing diminishes the actions of a rapist.

Would you define having sex with a woman who is under the influence of drink or drugs or both, providing of course the woman had got herself into that condition by her own choosing, was a willing participant in a sex act and was not duped by being deliberately given any substances, as rape under any circumstances and taking into consideration that if the woman would not have been under the influences of drink or drugs she may or may not have been in that situation in the first instance?

I am not assuming anything about this woman for the moment, please do not accuse me of doing so, these are just a hypothetical questions and a dilemma that a judge will have to decide.

[GentlemanJim]

The girl was blathered to the point of almost passing out; you have to be pretty bent out of shape to be denied access to a bar or restaurant in NST. As someone pointed out, not uncommon behaviour for young ladies in the UK on most weekends but it still doesn't justify taking advantage of her... as happens in the UK on most weekends. A friend of mine is a special constable in the south of England and is appalled at the drunk, foul-mouthed young girls they have to deal with at the weekends. Their purses invariably contain a few quid, cigarettes and condoms and he notes that the cigarette packet is enevitably used whilst the condoms are untouched.

If the female victim of this thread thought she could get hammered just like back home, more fool her. If this guy reckoned that a foreign girl incapable of walking and talking gave her consent for a shag in a hallway while his buddy watched, then more fool him.

There's no denying that she got 'raped' by the local media and the standard operating procedure of the local cops but she hasn't exactly done herself any favours IMHO.

"....he notes that the cigarette packet is enevitably used whilst the condoms are untouched." (sic)

Do you expect many women have unopened cigarette packs and used condoms in their purse?

That is funny!

[Thai at Heart]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

[Beetlejuice]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

Brilliant, this is the response I have been hoping for.

She either had sex willingly or she didnt and these are the big questions at the moment. Anything else regarding all parties concerned in this case is just pure speculation.

[Kilgore Trout]

"ok," "good"

I'm sure those are the only english words he knows

[GentlemanJim]

"ok," "good"

I'm sure those are the only english words he knows

I guess it could have been worse he could have said she kept saying

'loverly juberly' or

'Come on you reds' or

'How Much' or

'love you long time'

[chooka]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

You are correct the two are worlds apart.

As the judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria (Aust) said in a case (That I was involved in) an intoxicated person can not give informed consent. Now case law and used in other similar cases. It will remain case law unless someone takes it to the high court to have the ruling overturned which has not been done successfully.

The guy, a doctor, raped a woman in his home and was convicted and sentenced to 6 yrs imprisonment. The woman was drunk when he raped and molestered her. The court was informed she had pretended to be asleep and did not complain because she was scared of him. Covicted because she was drunk and could not give informed consent.

[cowboydog]

Gotta say that to me the bloke in the photo doesnt look like a Thai to me maybe a leuk kreung ??

hey buddy, time to cut back on the self pleasuring ..your eyesight is starting to suffer!

[Mackie]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

You are correct the two are worlds apart.

As the judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria (Aust) said in a case (That I was involved in) an intoxicated person can not give informed consent. Now case law and used in other similar cases. It will remain case law unless someone takes it to the high court to have the ruling overturned which has not been done successfully.

The guy, a doctor, raped a woman in his home and was convicted and sentenced to 6 yrs imprisonment. The woman was drunk when he raped and molestered her. The court was informed she had pretended to be asleep and did not complain because she was scared of him. Covicted because she was drunk and could not give informed consent.

Just of curiosity. How she ended up in his home? Was she forced to join him? Were they both drinking? It sounds to me more like a honey trap than rape. Anyway where is the line? Back home everyone goes out Friday and Saturday. Everyone gets hammered, both men and women. Alcohol, all sorts of drugs or both. In most cases no one knows what is going on. So easy way out is always to blame men.

[chooka]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

You are correct the two are worlds apart.

As the judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria (Aust) said in a case (That I was involved in) an intoxicated person can not give informed consent. Now case law and used in other similar cases. It will remain case law unless someone takes it to the high court to have the ruling overturned which has not been done successfully.

The guy, a doctor, raped a woman in his home and was convicted and sentenced to 6 yrs imprisonment. The woman was drunk when he raped and molestered her. The court was informed she had pretended to be asleep and did not complain because she was scared of him. Covicted because she was drunk and could not give informed consent.

Just of curiosity. How she ended up in his home? Was she forced to join him? Were they both drinking? It sounds to me more like a honey trap than rape. Anyway where is the line? Back home everyone goes out Friday and Saturday. Everyone gets hammered, both men and women. Alcohol, all sorts of drugs or both. In most cases no one knows what is going on. So easy way out is always to blame men.

they met in a nightclub where they had both been drinking and then caught a cab to his house where they consumed more drinks. No drugs were found in her system. She passed out and when she came to, she was naked in his bed with him on top of her. He penetrated her a few times whilst she was conscious. The defence claimed it was consensual sex and even had the cab driver give evidence that they were quite close and cuddly in the back of the cab and she was quite intoxicated and had to be assisted from the cab. The photo's on his mobile phone showed his penis in her mouth and she was quite clearly not concious at this time however he claimed she was concious when sex commenced. The defence claimed that they had agreed to go to his home for sex and she instigated it. As the judge said at his sentencing an intoxicated person can not give informed consent.

[tominbkk]

I knew a Canadian woman here in BKK that I worked with who had real bad issues with alcohol...she would routinely black out in the bars by 9 or 10 o'clock. She would end up taking guys home ( I think usually Thai guys ) and being blacked out would have sex with them, pass out, and several times woke up in the morning minus whatever money and valuables she had in her room gone. She would complain about these guys, and if I or other men tried to bring up the fact that the problem was her indiscretion caused by her problem with alcohol, she would yell at us that we were women haters and she didn't deserve what happened to her, and that men always took advantage of her. An extreme case, but I think it reveals a certain attitude that quite a few people hold - that no matter what a woman may do or position they may put themselves into, it is never their fault for what happens to them.

Ok, but she did not say, the men raped her and ran to the police?

So, I see no comparison to the Thread.That is a completely different book, at least for me.

You must not bring a woman's story about that, "special irresponsibility", in connection with Sex, which sure happens to a women only few times, but,

happens every day many times to men in South East Asia, just change your words regarding Female to Male upstairs and it fits many of times in a year!

These men say than also, -How do I deserve, that the 'Ladies - Lady Boys" took advantage of my carelessness!

?

[GentlemanJim]

I knew a Canadian woman here in BKK that I worked with who had real bad issues with alcohol...she would routinely black out in the bars by 9 or 10 o'clock. She would end up taking guys home ( I think usually Thai guys ) and being blacked out would have sex with them, pass out, and several times woke up in the morning minus whatever money and valuables she had in her room gone. She would complain about these guys, and if I or other men tried to bring up the fact that the problem was her indiscretion caused by her problem with alcohol, she would yell at us that we were women haters and she didn't deserve what happened to her, and that men always took advantage of her. An extreme case, but I think it reveals a certain attitude that quite a few people hold - that no matter what a woman may do or position they may put themselves into, it is never their fault for what happens to them.

Ok, but she did not say, the men raped her and ran to the police?

So, I see no comparison to the Thread.That is a completely different book, at least for me.

You must not bring a woman's story about that, "special irresponsibility", in connection with Sex, which sure happens to a women only few times, but,

happens every day many times to men in South East Asia, just change your words regarding Female to Male upstairs and it fits many of times in a year!

These men say than also, -How do I deserve, that the 'Ladies - Lady Boys" took advantage of my carelessness!

?

We are well into Fri night happy hour Tom, don't try and make sense of anything after 7.30 on Thai Visa

[Beetlejuice]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

You are correct the two are worlds apart.

As the judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria (Aust) said in a case (That I was involved in) an intoxicated person can not give informed consent. Now case law and used in other similar cases. It will remain case law unless someone takes it to the high court to have the ruling overturned which has not been done successfully.

The guy, a doctor, raped a woman in his home and was convicted and sentenced to 6 yrs imprisonment. The woman was drunk when he raped and molestered her. The court was informed she had pretended to be asleep and did not complain because she was scared of him. Covicted because she was drunk and could not give informed consent.

This is worrying.

So in fact under the law of: (an intoxicated person cannot give informed consent), which is something I did not know and thank you for bringing this to our attention, if a guy has sex with an intoxicated woman, than in fact he is committing rape. So this in fact means that in this case the guys are guilty as charge, it`s already cut and dry, just for having sex with her and it is irrelevant whether she consented or not as these guys could be looking at a life sentence whatever they say.

Just thinking how many drunk girls I`ve had sex with at parties and met elsewhere during my lifetime and suppose under the law that must make me a serial rapist.

Very scary indeed.

[rixalex]

The photo's on his mobile phone showed his penis in her mouth and she was quite clearly not concious at this time however he claimed she was concious when sex commenced.

Just out of interest, when viewing a photo, not a video, how can you possibly tell the difference between someone's eyes being closed and someone being unconscious? Doesn't sound easy.

[TommoPhysicist]

How people can't see that there is a world of difference between picking up someone drunk and rape i don't understand.

Either someone wants sex or doesn't, and that is a world away from regretting sleeping with someone and rape.

You are correct the two are worlds apart.

As the judge of the Supreme Court of Victoria (Aust) said in a case (That I was involved in) an intoxicated person can not give informed consent. Now case law and used in other similar cases. It will remain case law unless someone takes it to the high court to have the ruling overturned which has not been done successfully.

The guy, a doctor, raped a woman in his home and was convicted and sentenced to 6 yrs imprisonment. The woman was drunk when he raped and molestered her. The court was informed she had pretended to be asleep and did not complain because she was scared of him. Covicted because she was drunk and could not give informed consent.

This is worrying.

So in fact under the law of: (an intoxicated person cannot give informed consent), which is something I did not know and thank you for bringing this to our attention, if a guy has sex with an intoxicated woman, than in fact he is committing rape. So this in fact means that in this case the guys are guilty as charge, it`s already cut and dry, just for having sex with her and it is irrelevant whether she consented or not as these guys could be looking at a life sentence whatever they say.

Just thinking how many drunk girls I`ve had sex with at parties and met elsewhere during my lifetime and suppose under the law that must make me a serial rapist.

Very scary indeed.

This is only recently law in a few of the more extreme countries (America and Australia being two of them).

In some states of America a woman may withdraw her consent up to ten years after the event and claim rape.

Hopefully all of the drunken women I had sex with when I was young, have forgotten or never asked my name.

Not that there were many.

Part of the art of avoiding assault in it's many forms, is to not put yourself in danger in the first place.

Avoid being drunk and alone in third world countries would seem to be a good idea.