Thais And Emotional Suppression

[cornishcarlos]

aTomsLife, on 23 Feb 2013 - 13:04, said:

Can a question per se be wrong? I think not, professor.

I'm aware it's a matter of culture, hence my primary question of how other westerners have dealt with this difference in their personal relationships.

I'm not interested in the definition of emotional availability. If you're able to explain how -- as you so astutely put -- Thais classify experiences, encode them symbolically and express such to others, please do. Otherwise, you're ignoring the intention of the post.

ํ

Lol.

Questions most definitely can be wrong, as yours is. Most arguments, disagreements, ignorance, miscommunication, misunderstanding and so on come from well-intentioned "wrong" questions. Sorry if you don't like it but this entire line of question is bad from the get go. You're now discussing how oranges cannot seem to turn into pears as if this was a useful or relevant or realistic thing to consider. I know I sound arrogant pointing it out to you (only trying to be helpful anyway). Nobody can answer your question without obfuscating the non-issue further, because the line of questioning is rank. I did suggest what a more clarified version of your question might be to show how it is not really a question worth much.. again, apologies but that's how I see it until someone shows me why Im wrong.

If youre not interested in the definition of your own question then im even more confused, and if your post had intentions other than the one you wrote then please make them known.. if we're just going to have a whine about how Thais arent like us then sorry, but Ive done that this week.

If you tell me it's noisy outside and I ask you what color the noise is, sure, I suppose that's a wrong question... but seriously, you're making me laugh, too. Take your help elsewhere. From your opening sentence you've been tactless, and your ideas are ripe with pseudo-intellectualism.

You've accused me of muddying the water by applying the western notion of emotional availability to Thais. So Thais don't have emotions? I'm whining about how they're different from us? Really? Despite that the OP seeks advice so I might better understand their way of things. I could go on, but seriously, your posts are so full of drivel, I really can't be bothered with you after this response.

Noise might be different colors !

I went to a yoga course once in CM and at one point we were supposed to vibrate blue ??

Not sure what was going on to be honest but I did peek a couple of times and I really think the instructor was vibrating blue.. Now if noise is merely vibrations amplified then there is a possibility that your question about what color the noise was, was right after all...

BTW my wife is an emotional little thing, bless her

[Dancealot]

@cornishcarlos: That is quite a colourful metaphor.

[swissie]

The expression of true emotions is not customary in Thai-Society. Every Thai is an actor, that enters the stage on a daily basis. (Must be an actor, oherwise he/she will fall out of the strictly layered framework of Thai-Society).

Social-Interacton by Thais is determined by social-standing, family background etc.... But at any rate: Superficial and on the surface only. From birth until death. Don't be misled by friendly chatter among the ladies: It is taking place within strict pre-set rules as to "who can speak what to whom about what".

Difficult to grasp for a farang. Instead of going into major elaborations, here just 2 things that I have run across, that even farangs are not aware of, that have beeen living here for a long time.

- Male friendship among Thais: Unless on the same level of social-standing, personal problems (wife, family) will not be disclosed or disussed with the friend of 10 yeears !

And of course, the famous Thai-Smile: Can be applied to display sympathy, but mostly:

- It just means "Hello" (combined with a slight nod of the head.) You get this every time at your local store and it does not mean "I like you". It means "hello".

When having paid for your purchase and getting ready to leave, you may get the same procedure. It means "thank you" and not "I like you". In return, you may want to smile, combined with a slight bow of your head while receiving you correct change. If the change is not correct, you are allowed to cut your smile short.

- The farang, having a traffic accident with a Thai can only comment to his farang-friends the next day: " ......... to make things worse, all he could do is give me a silly smile". What the farang diden't know was that with his smile, the Thai only wanted to say "I am sorry", let's talk.

So therefore, the Thai-Smile serves many purposes, that have nothing to do with "I like you". For a good part, it serves the purpose of de-escalating a given situation.

- The Thai-Smile has a different meaning in a Go-Go Bar of course. There it means "I like you". Correction: "I like your wallet".

THE FARANG AND THE "WAY": Unless the farang understands the meaning of a way = just don't do it. It is absolutely not necessary to way the cashier at 7/11 or the lady at the bar. While doing the "way" and raise your hands to nose level (or above), you might be saying something like " I greet you sincerely and my respect for you is immense". Would the average farang greet his cashier back home in such a manner? Hardly.

So do as Thais do: Greet very little and smile a lot.

Cheers.

[473geo]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

[aTomsLife]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

This is fantastic. Thank you!

[Dancealot]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

Edited February 23, 2013 by Dancealot

[Dancealot]

@ Mr. swissie, i am out of likes..

[mca]

I don't think they care all that much for anyone except themselves and their parents.

Not so much about hiding emotions, more like not having them.

How to deal with it ............. not care much about them either.

Husbands?

[JurgenG]

Thais do express themselves and if you don't think they do you simply don't understand what you are witnessing. Do they express themselves in the same way westerners do? No, they don't. The exceptions are those who have absorbed western culture for a long time. I'm being constructive in saying that this line of questioning should be questioned because you're not asking the right question if the object here is to connect with your loved one or significant other who is Thai.

You're right, Thais express their feelings in a way that is sometime difficult to understand to foreigners.

A forum like TV should be able to help readers to understand their host country. Unfortunately a number of posters are more interested in Thai bashing. Too bad for those who are genuinely interested in fitting in.

[mca]

Your question is wrong.

Maybe you should seek not to know the answers, but to understand the questions.

You forgot to add " Grasshopper" mate.

[Dancealot]

Your question is wrong.

Maybe you should seek not to know the answers, but to understand the questions.

You forgot to add " Grasshopper" mate.

+3 "He who speaks does not know and he who knows does not speak"

Edited February 23, 2013 by Dancealot

[amykat]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

Or could it be that most Thai people just don't use various "mechanical devices" like car seats, strollers, playpens, baby cribs ...for practical reasons, as in the COST combined with they are just not used to seeing anyone use those things? I think you are applying your own "Western" thinking to try to attribute this to something more meaningful.

Sort of along the lines of posters here, often making mention of how great Thais are because they take care of their older people and don't send them to old age homes. Are there really any old age homes here of any consequence? Can people afford them, would they want to pay for them? It just doesn't seem to be an option here for most. That doesn't automatically mean the old/disabled people are well cared for at their Thai homes.

[chrisinth]

So back to the OP, please...

Does anyone sense this feeling of being 'conned' in their Thai-farang relation because the better half appears to suppress hers?

I would go quite the opposite. If my wife came across all lovey-dovey, I would be suspicious as hell.

However, the bond is still there after 14 years............

To try and answer the OP about how to cope with, as he puts it, emotional suppression, you need to define how much information you need. Everyone is different.

There are parts of my past that my wife knows nothing about, as there are parts of her life that I don't know. We are both comfortable with this, but if either were to ask we would tell each other. We choose not to go into those rooms.

Any relationship, especially intimate relationships, are based on friendship and trust. If those ingredients aren't there, you don't have a true relationship. (I am not talking about long meaningful overnight relationships, that is something different....... )

Soooo, my answer would have to be that you adapt to your present situation. But this is prevalent wherever you are in the world.

[TommoPhysicist]

Husband/Wife relationships in Thailand (and most of Asia) are business relationships.

I understand this, but most foreigners don't.

Of course they won't get all emotional over a business partner.

And neither will I.

Edited February 23, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[chrisinth]

"Husband/Wife relationships in Thailand (and most of Asia) are business relationships"

Is this across the board Tommo, sort of general statement?

I'm impressed that you know so many relationships...............

How would you define marriage in the West?

[Morden]

Thais are very subtle when it comes to showing emotion. They often say nothing in order to avoid the dreaded conflict but watch their face and body language and you will often see their feeling there. Fortunately, my wife is reasonably open about voicing her feelings, especially when she doesn't like my driving.

How about this for an exception?

Edited February 23, 2013 by Morden

[aTomsLife]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

Or could it be that most Thai people just don't use various "mechanical devices" like car seats, strollers, playpens, baby cribs ...for practical reasons, as in the COST combined with they are just not used to seeing anyone use those things? I think you are applying your own "Western" thinking to try to attribute this to something more meaningful.

Sort of along the lines of posters here, often making mention of how great Thais are because they take care of their older people and don't send them to old age homes. Are there really any old age homes here of any consequence? Can people afford them, would they want to pay for them? It just doesn't seem to be an option here for most. That doesn't automatically mean the old/disabled people are well cared for at their Thai homes.

"There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle"

This was the part of 473geo's post I found most insightful. I can see this as a feasible replacement for words in a truly healthy relationship. Though I'm still of the belief that not verbalizing their feelings is a form of suppression I will never fully understand.

Edited February 23, 2013 by aTomsLife

[TommoPhysicist]

How would you define marriage in the West?

Men entering indentured servitude.

[473geo]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

Or could it be that most Thai people just don't use various "mechanical devices" like car seats, strollers, playpens, baby cribs ...for practical reasons, as in the COST combined with they are just not used to seeing anyone use those things? I think you are applying your own "Western" thinking to try to attribute this to something more meaningful.

Sort of along the lines of posters here, often making mention of how great Thais are because they take care of their older people and don't send them to old age homes. Are there really any old age homes here of any consequence? Can people afford them, would they want to pay for them? It just doesn't seem to be an option here for most. That doesn't automatically mean the old/disabled people are well cared for at their Thai homes.

I am not surprised by this response, but surely emanating from one who has not observed differing members of a family, holding, entertaining, carrying, feeding, the younger children, it is this bonding process and sharing of the load that negates the need for all your 'devices' not the 'cost'. You should also understand that the average rural Thai male could rustle up a pen at virtually no cost to contain the children if necessary. Also just to mention the mother of my wife has recently been taking care of an elderly neighbour visiting twice a day for months until a family member returned to take on the task, no payment, just a sense of duty to a neighbour, who would, given the opportunity, have done exactly the same. It seems I view a different Thailand to some on these boards.....or maybe I just don't seek out opportunity to belittle the good things the Thai do have going for them, be they driven by economics or good hearted family welfare and community spirit.

Edited February 23, 2013 by 473geo

[Scully]

Thais are not the same as us, but people still believe they are just a little different, a close family member died and I returned to Thailand a couple of weeks after the funeral. The shock that I was still upset makes me wonder how you can grow up for years with a person and then just forget them, Buddhism which in turn moulds people, I don't think I will ever understand,

Thais mostly are good people but their beliefs,superstitions and way of thinking will be a lot different from Westerners for a long time.

[amykat]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

Or could it be that most Thai people just don't use various "mechanical devices" like car seats, strollers, playpens, baby cribs ...for practical

"There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle"

This was the part of 473geo's post I found most insightful. I can see this as a feasible replacement for words in a truly healthy relationship. Though I'm still of the belief that not verbalizing their feelings is a form of suppression I will never fully understand.

So, what if your spouse cooks and cleans (their home also not only your home), and yet other things they "DO" for you, include cheating with outside relationships because after all, they only married you for money mostly ... they deserve their outside fun time (this is what I think some Thai people think). And things they "DO" for you, include lying about money, manipulating you for money, or things, etc., that are meant to only benefit themselves, or their "real" family ...to your detriment? Or they only do these things while they are awaiting their new citizenship to your Western country to come through.

On the other hand, what about a spouse who works at a good job, and pays for a maid, to clean your house, cook your food, or pays for restuarants, whatever, is that less a sign of love, or nothing to do with anything?

Aren't these just traditional gender roles being played out in the case of the Thai wife "cooking, cleaning, and taking care" and the man paying? Does your maid love you because she cleans well for 300 baht a day ...or does she just clean well because she wants 300 baht a day?

Personally, I either clean my house myself, or have paid people to clean my house, no matter if I am single or married. When I was married it didn't mean that I loved my husband more or less, just that I had certain standards as far as my house goes ...I would consider other things more important to prove my love and caring than cleaning and cooking, things such as fidelity, honesty, loyalty, building a future together and many other things.

[villagefarang]

To a degree this, admittedly, is a fear of mine. But at this point, if I'm to stay here and have a family, I'm still adamant about finding someone who cares. I'd be hard pressed to ever view a lady as wife-material who couldn't fully express herself to me. I don't think I could share a home, much less raise a child, with someone who wasn't all there, so to speak. Best to stay in the slow lane for a while, I guess.

I have chosen to focus on this comment, though I recognize it was not in the original post. If the goal is to find a compatible life partner, then by all means hold out for what you need in a partner. There are already too many unhappy and unsuccessful relationships brought about by settling.

There are intelligent, modern and liberal families out there but are you running in those circles? In my experience Thais are indeed emotional and express themselves when appropriate but don’t feel the need to analyze their emotions to death. Besides you don’t need to change Thai culture, just find one individual who represents both love and compatibility for you.

It is worth considering that loud emotional outbursts don’t necessarily get rid of pent-up emotion but instead foster it through the development of neuro-pathways that make that kind of behavior a habit. Being calm and peaceful is also self reinforcing I have found. The kind of emotion one often associates with foreigners in Thailand is not something I care to be witness to on regular basis. One solution may be to get better at reading Thai emotions.

[aTomsLife]

So, what if your spouse cooks and cleans (their home also not only your home), and yet other things they "DO" for you, include cheating with outside relationships because after all, they only married you for money mostly ... they deserve their outside fun time (this is what I think some Thai people think). And things they "DO" for you, include lying about money, manipulating you for money, or things, etc., that are meant to only benefit themselves, or their "real" family ...to your detriment? Or they only do these things while they are awaiting their new citizenship to your Western country to come through.

On the other hand, what about a spouse who works at a good job, and pays for a maid, to clean your house, cook your food, or pays for restuarants, whatever, is that less a sign of love, or nothing to do with anything?

Aren't these just traditional gender roles being played out in the case of the Thai wife "cooking, cleaning, and taking care" and the man paying? Does your maid love you because she cleans well for 300 baht a day ...or does she just clean well because she wants 300 baht a day?

Personally, I either clean my house myself, or have paid people to clean my house, no matter if I am single or married. When I was married it didn't mean that I loved my husband more or less, just that I had certain standards as far as my house goes ...I would consider other things more important to prove my love and caring than cleaning and cooking, things such as fidelity, honesty, loyalty, building a future together and many other things.

Well put amykat, and while your points contradict those of 473geo's to an extent, I find myself agreeing with you both. (I'm a pluralist at heart, after all... that's allowed on Thai Visa, right?)

I don't need anyone to cook or clean for me, as I'm quite capable in both regards. Still, that's not to say a woman, or a man for that matter, couldn't express love and gratitude cooking and cleaning. Of course, if s/he is also cheating, then it doesn't matter what they say or do, they're FOS, no matter the difference in culture.

Please look at my comment again: I said I can see such behaviors "IN A TRULY HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP" as a fair compromise for a lack of verbal affection. Never did I say that playing such a role is an excuse for extra martial affairs.

Edited February 23, 2013 by aTomsLife

[swissie]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

I see Thai women carry their children even when quite large every day. I also see Thai women swinging their newborns in the hammock for the first 2 years of their life, to keep them comfortable (it's hot in Thailand and often not the slightest breeze going). During this time, no other work can be done by the mother of course.

As there is no other "old-age insurance" available, the offspring is the "old-age insurance" and the survival of the offspring is of crucial importance.

All of this has nothing to do with "motherly-love". It's an insurance matter.

In my neck of the woods, if a female at the age of 20 is not blessed with "motherhood" , she will be regarded with suspicion. All perfectly normal and according to Thai Tradition and way of life.

The only disruption occurs, when Farangs arrive here with the conviction, that once they build a big house and cater to the rest of the family in all possible ways, this would have the effect that as a matter of gratitude, wife and family will (in return) accept some "western-thinking" including it's moral values. Western thingking will be adopted and appreciated, but usually not far beyond the next ATM.

Most farangs refuse to accept the fact, that in Thailand, marriage is a business-contract, and having children is an old-age-insurance matter. Has little to do with any sort of romantic notions as we understand it.

This of course will not stop farangs claiming constantly "my wife is different", ignoring given facts and I have lost count on how many times I heard this before only to be reminded of the old joke: -There are only two kinds of flat-roofs: The ones that leak and the ones that don't leak YET.

Cheers.

[amykat]

Of course Thai people show their emotions. The Thai have a plethora of facial expressions, if you do not see this and cannot quickly translate you will miss the initial response before the blank expression or smile is put in place. Kids are fine, mine enjoy a hug and a kiss, I tell them I love them, they respond with the same. I feel in Thailand the impression of respect and love your children is shown by how you treat them, so I try to make sure mine enjoy occasional experiences a little out of the everyday life of most, to make them feel a little special, but not different. Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large? on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along. There are many signs of 'bonding' which are noticable, and are much more expressive than words. In my opinion the things you do for others is the key to expressing love and affection in Thailand, for a wife cooking cleaning and 'taking good care', for a husband providing a decent lifestyle........words are after all only words, and in a land where people will say something only to avoid confrontation, perhaps the spoken word is rightly reduced to a mere whisper compared to actions.

I want to frame this rant. Mr473geo. You paraphrased and objectified the feeling perfectly.

Ever see the way Thai women carry their children even when quite large?

on the hip? is this not more loving,close and caring for their children

than putting them in a mechanical device to push them along./endquote

Great example

Or could it be that most Thai people just don't use various "mechanical devices" like car seats, strollers, playpens, baby cribs ...for practical reasons, as in the COST combined with they are just not used to seeing anyone use those things? I think you are applying your own "Western" thinking to try to attribute this to something more meaningful.

Sort of along the lines of posters here, often making mention of how great Thais are because they take care of their older people and don't send them to old age homes. Are there really any old age homes here of any consequence? Can people afford them, would they want to pay for them? It just doesn't seem to be an option here for most. That doesn't automatically mean the old/disabled people are well cared for at their Thai homes.

I am not surprised by this response, but surely emanating from one who has not observed differing members of a family, holding, entertaining, carrying, feeding, the younger children, it is this bonding process and sharing of the load that negates the need for all your 'devices' not the 'cost'. You should also understand that the average rural Thai male could rustle up a pen at virtually no cost to contain the children if necessary. Also just to mention the mother of my wife has recently been taking care of an elderly neighbour visiting twice a day for months until a family member returned to take on the task, no payment, just a sense of duty to a neighbour, who would, given the opportunity, have done exactly the same. It seems I view a different Thailand to some on these boards.....or maybe I just don't seek out opportunity to belittle the good things the Thai do have going for them, be they driven by economics or good hearted family welfare and community spirit.

Well I have observed differing members, of differing families, in fact, take care of children and old people and a few disabled people ...and I can't say I was impressed! I can say I was rather horrified at the level of care in all these circumstances. However, I am not saying ALL Thai people are like this ...but some are, maybe many are. In the same way the OP is discussing feeling a lack of caring, I feel a lack of caring for the people I mentioned above. Putting a diaper on a person and delivering food to their room does not seem to be, ENOUGH care, but just enough to keep them alive. Anyway, I won't go into details about what I have seen as that would take too long.

But I do want to say, that however, even in the case your family and neighbor ...maybe your family are much better than others, but in the case of the OP, we are not Thais, we are not considered a real part of the family/community in many cases (not ALL cases). We are convinced we are a part of it, while we are useful.

I do totally disagree that the various mechanical devices, that are not used in Thailand, are due to some idea Thais have that they are doing a better job "bonding" ...they simply have no experience of those things, the same way they have no experience with healthy eating, various safety issues, etc. I think it is just crazy to think that Thais have thouroughly thought out the use of such items, but found them wanting as far as bonding issues go, and so they go without!

[villagefarang]

It might also be worth pointing out, that while some westerners might admire those who are verbose and assume those who are quiet and reserved are a bit dull, there are indeed some cultures which may look down on the over communicator as foolishly revealing too much and the quit individual is viewed as somehow deeper and more profound.

[TommoPhysicist]

The only disruption occurs, when Farangs arrive here with the conviction, that once they build a big house and cater to the rest of the family in all possible ways, this would have the effect that as a matter of gratitude, wife and family will (in return) accept some "western-thinking" including it's moral values. Western thingking will be adopted and appreciated, but usually not far beyond the next ATM

Most farangs refuse to accept the fact, that in Thailand, marriage is a business-contract, and having children is an old-age-insurance matter. Has little to do with any sort of romantic notions as we understand it.

My English wife didn't show me any gratitude for the house and money.

Why would I expect my Thai wife to be different.

I like it here, it's business and we all know it's business.

None of this love cr#$ ......... except from a few deluded foreigners.

Edited February 23, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[TommoPhysicist]

On the other hand, what about a spouse who works at a good job, and pays for a maid, to clean your house, cook your food, or pays for restuarants, whatever, is that less a sign of love, or nothing to do with anything?

Do you know one that does that?

I don't.

As for cooking and cleaning ....... trivial ..... I don't need that done for me.

[473geo]

I'm quite happy to be considered deluded Tommo, I have seen both sides of the coin in Thailand, and I know this time it has certainly landed the right way up.........those who consider they do things right first time and everytime.....will never be quite sure of what they have.....and indeed they may never knowingly attain what I have achieved. ................but hey tomorrow is another day eh

[aTomsLife]

It might also be worth pointing out, that while some westerners might admire those who are verbose and assume those who are quiet and reserved are a bit dull, there are indeed some cultures which may look down on the over communicator as foolishly revealing too much and the quit individual is viewed as somehow deeper and more profound.

Sure, even in western culture we admire the strong, silent type. But, for example, if you were to ask your wife if she loved you and, although she smiled and shined the depths of her eyes at you, she was nonetheless unable to answer you, wouldn't that be strange? To a lesser extent, that would be like a lady unable to tell her boyfriend whether or not she think's he's handsome. I've encountered as much, and to me it's incredibly disconcerting, despite that the behavior of the lady in question is otherwise loveliness personified.

Edited February 23, 2013 by aTomsLife