Dutch Tourist In Chiang Mai Reports Forcible Sexual Assault From 2 Caucasian Men

[ALFREDO]

This may be off topic but if I can tell a true story.

In 2006 a group of us came to Thailand for a holiday on Phuket. On the 2nd night we were out for dinner at a nice restuarant (party of 15 close friends) We left the restuarant at around 10 p.m to walk back to our hotel about 200 metres away.

Two of the girls aged 18 and 20 and daughters of a friend were about 100 metres in front of us and as we walked chatting the 20 yr old came running back towards us screaming and yelling that men had attacked them both. We ran forward and found two thai men had her in a siding one was holding her arms and the other was tearing at her clothing.

My mate the father of this girl gave the best kick into the rib section I have ever seen the guy appeared to have been lifted 12 feet into the air. The other guy was also laid flat on his arse by another mate. Both were held whilst the police arrived and a sexual assault report was made.

The police stated that my friends daughter was drunk and had consented to sex with the two thai guys. They said they had witnesses in the restuarant to this and even tho there were 14 of us that said that they did not drink, were totally sober and spoke to nobody but the dinner party was not enough, We were disbelieved.

The Thai guys were released without charge and my two friends were charged with assault on the Thais. Thier passports were siezed but were bailed on thier own undertaking to stay in the hotel. They had to plead guilty at court 4 days later and had to pay compensation to the victims and families totalling 250K baht and ordered to leave the country on the next flight.

Had they refused to plead guilty they were told that they could spend a yr in prison waiting for a hearing in court. They pleaded, coughed up and left.

"Nearly" unbelievable!

[ALFREDO]

So she meets a guy go back to room and she drunk yep and she says one guy was o k and the other where not hm

...and? You are saying....?

He seems to believe, -she accepting sex with one, she accepting sex with all, everybody!- For some, that is "logical!"

[Beetlejuice]

Here we go again.

As mentioned in a previous thread regarding a Scottish girl allegedly gang raped in Pattaya, having sex with an intoxicated woman is considered as rape under the law, whether she consents or not.

The solution is for the guys: avoid getting involved in these situations, you`re playing a dangerous game and Russian roulette with your freedom.

1st: This is law in a few countries, certainly not all.

2nd: When a man and a woman have conscientious sex while intoxicated (let's assume they are equally 'pissed'), do you really find it OK when the woman next day can claim this as a rape?

Depends: If the guy had forced himself onto the girl or the girl was so heavily intoxicated that she was oblivious as to the true nature of what was happening to her, then it is irrelevant whether she was drunk or he was drunk, or both were drunk and if that`s the case than it must be classified as rape, otherwise If the girl gives her consent, than I believe that she shares a high responsibility for her actions and do not consider that she has the right to claim her consented sex was rape, but that`s only my personal opinion. What really matters is how these cases are defined under Thai law? If the law says that having sex with an inebriated woman is rape under any circumstances, then that`s it, end of story, but does not mean to say that I totally agree with the law in all instances.

[Buchholz]

.

Still nothing published in the English news, but a partial explanation for that is found in the non-English news where it was reported that officials in Chiang Mai decided not to have the normal news conference on this case (which is almost obligatory when, for example, the two foreign suspects were arrested) as they thought the news would adversely impact on the image of Chiang Mai.

As the news in this case is already being replaced in the local press with news of a different rape case in Chiang Mai (Thai on Thai), this Dutch tourist case is likely to fade faster than it already is.

.

[Ferangled]

I really don't want to comment on this topic but feel compelled to. It is impossible at this stage for any of us to know if a rape did or did not take place. If it did then the men should be prosecuted accordingly but it's not unknown for women engaging in sexual activities that they wouldn't normally engage in if sober to have a change of heart the next day... what seems like a good idea when drunk often wasn't.

This is something I have personal experience of, in my youth a wild party, a certain girl usually very shy got out of control drunk and let's just say was very free with her affections... she didn't enjoy the reputation that fast spread following her activities and decided the best way to improve her image was to cry rape. People were arrested and much distress caused as a result, before the overwhelming evidence of consent was gathered and the CPS threw the case out before it got to court.

Again I am not saying this is the case here but we should hold off on our judgement of any involved unless we know the full facts.

To take advantage of a person who is incapacitated (drunk or

otherwise) and have sex with that person consensual or not, is indicative of a person

with defective moral character.

Permissive behavior by a person who is incapacitated is not be a green light to have your

way with the person, to the contrary it should be a red light to stop and find

help for that person.

And if both parties happen to be drunk... of course that never happens does it, the male of the species is a strictly sober predator looking to prey on drunken females...

[Jim walker]

Drinking too much in Thailand usually brings its own problems
along with the hangover.

[smotherb]

Hypothesis 1:

She goes with Mr. Thomas to the room when the bars close (2AM).

They have sex for 2 hours.

Mr. Thomas texts his friends to come and join.

Friends arrive at apr. 4:15AM

Friends, Mr. Thomas and Ms. Collina first engage in friendly negotiations until 4:45.

Friends and Mr. Thomas give up on trying to coerce her to gangbang, the rape scenario begins apr. 5AM

Friends and Mr. Thomas repeatedly rape and abuse Ms. Collina while getting it all on video and pictures for later fun and sharing.

Friends and Mr. Thomas leave the passed our Ms. Collina left to her own while they grab a shower each of them and then leave at 8AM

3 hours for 3 guys to realize the perverted fantasies with a young girl doesn't sound farfetched...

It could even be she had been drugged... however that is again pure speculation...

Hypothesis 2: ?

Easy,

Hypothesis 2:

After some drinking

Ms. Collins went with Mr. Thomas to his room to help finance her northern trip

After some sex and more drinking

Ms. Collins agrees to earn more money and take on two friends

After more drinking and more sex, Ms. Collins falls asleep/passes-out

Mr Thomas and two friends take leave, failing to pay the sleeping Ms. Collins

Ms. Collins wakes up and feels abused--that she was--gets mad--who wouldn't

Ms. Collins becomes vindictive

And you know the rest of the story . . . .

Hypothesis 3:?

[Pimay1]

Hypothesis 1:

She goes with Mr. Thomas to the room when the bars close (2AM).

They have sex for 2 hours.

Mr. Thomas texts his friends to come and join.

Friends arrive at apr. 4:15AM

Friends, Mr. Thomas and Ms. Collina first engage in friendly negotiations until 4:45.

Friends and Mr. Thomas give up on trying to coerce her to gangbang, the rape scenario begins apr. 5AM

Friends and Mr. Thomas repeatedly rape and abuse Ms. Collina while getting it all on video and pictures for later fun and sharing.

Friends and Mr. Thomas leave the passed our Ms. Collina left to her own while they grab a shower each of them and then leave at 8AM

3 hours for 3 guys to realize the perverted fantasies with a young girl doesn't sound farfetched...

It could even be she had been drugged... however that is again pure speculation...

Hypothesis 2: ?

Easy,

Hypothesis 2:

After some drinking

Ms. Collins went with Mr. Thomas to his room to help finance her northern trip

After some sex and more drinking

Ms. Collins agrees to earn more money and take on two friends

After more drinking and more sex, Ms. Collins falls asleep/passes-out

Mr Thomas and two friends take leave, failing to pay the sleeping Ms. Collins

Ms. Collins wakes up and feels abused--that she was--gets mad--who wouldn't

Ms. Collins becomes vindictive

And you know the rest of the story . . . .

Hypothesis 3:?

We need an ignore quotes icon on TVF.

[smotherb]

This may be off topic but if I can tell a true story.

In 2006 a group of us came to Thailand for a holiday on Phuket. On the 2nd night we were out for dinner at a nice restuarant (party of 15 close friends) We left the restuarant at around 10 p.m to walk back to our hotel about 200 metres away.

Two of the girls aged 18 and 20 and daughters of a friend were about 100 metres in front of us and as we walked chatting the 20 yr old came running back towards us screaming and yelling that men had attacked them both. We ran forward and found two thai men had her in a siding one was holding her arms and the other was tearing at her clothing.

My mate the father of this girl gave the best kick into the rib section I have ever seen the guy appeared to have been lifted 12 feet into the air. The other guy was also laid flat on his arse by another mate. Both were held whilst the police arrived and a sexual assault report was made.

The police stated that my friends daughter was drunk and had consented to sex with the two thai guys. They said they had witnesses in the restuarant to this and even tho there were 14 of us that said that they did not drink, were totally sober and spoke to nobody but the dinner party was not enough, We were disbelieved.

The Thai guys were released without charge and my two friends were charged with assault on the Thais. Thier passports were siezed but were bailed on thier own undertaking to stay in the hotel. They had to plead guilty at court 4 days later and had to pay compensation to the victims and families totalling 250K baht and ordered to leave the country on the next flight.

Had they refused to plead guilty they were told that they could spend a yr in prison waiting for a hearing in court. They pleaded, coughed up and left.

"Nearly" unbelievable!

Yeah, reminds me of a story from Vietnam, the GIs were told of this special VD around Southeast Asia called "Saigon Rose." The disease was so contagious, that its victims, if not already dead, were sent to an island in the Spratly chain. The Saigon Rose colony is so contagious, only lepers will work there as attendants.

[smotherb]

Hypothesis 1:

She goes with Mr. Thomas to the room when the bars close (2AM).

They have sex for 2 hours.

Mr. Thomas texts his friends to come and join.

Friends arrive at apr. 4:15AM

Friends, Mr. Thomas and Ms. Collina first engage in friendly negotiations until 4:45.

Friends and Mr. Thomas give up on trying to coerce her to gangbang, the rape scenario begins apr. 5AM

Friends and Mr. Thomas repeatedly rape and abuse Ms. Collina while getting it all on video and pictures for later fun and sharing.

Friends and Mr. Thomas leave the passed our Ms. Collina left to her own while they grab a shower each of them and then leave at 8AM

3 hours for 3 guys to realize the perverted fantasies with a young girl doesn't sound farfetched...

It could even be she had been drugged... however that is again pure speculation...

Hypothesis 2: ?

Easy,

Hypothesis 2:

After some drinking

Ms. Collins went with Mr. Thomas to his room to help finance her northern trip

After some sex and more drinking

Ms. Collins agrees to earn more money and take on two friends

After more drinking and more sex, Ms. Collins falls asleep/passes-out

Mr Thomas and two friends take leave, failing to pay the sleeping Ms. Collins

Ms. Collins wakes up and feels abused--that she was--gets mad--who wouldn't

Ms. Collins becomes vindictive

And you know the rest of the story . . . .

Hypothesis 3:?

We need an ignore quotes icon on TVF.

My, you do practice selective logic, don't you? There have been several variations of two possible scenarios of this situation--I've added a third.

[sbk]

This case is already being discussed in another thread and I really don't think we need to have two threads with a few men vilifying some poor girl they don't even know and making speculation based on their own prejudices. Hope you don't have daughters.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/622911-danish-tourists-charged-with-sexual-assault-in-thailand-released-on-bail/

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