"facts" About Becoming A Thai Citizen

[conquest]

I would like to get some "facts" about becoming a Thai Citizen. I have read lots of "noise" on the web but nothing that clearly states how to go about this process. Based on what I have read I should qualify for Thai Citizenship as I have:

• been living here for 11 years with a ภ.ง.ด.91 for each year.
• married to a Thai for seven years
• have two children - Dual Thai / British nationality
• speak & read and write fluent Thai

The information that is out there suggests that if you want to apply for Thai Nationality as the spouse of a Thai Citizen and as the Parent of Thai Children you can apply without having to have a permanentresidence first. If you are not married you must have held permanent residence for at least five years before you can apply to become a Thai Citizen. Is this correct?

I personally know of three 100% white British Farangs that have Thai Nationality but they obtained theirs many decades ago and the process might not be them same. I'm looking for some insight from Thai Visa members that have obtained their Thai Nationality fairly recently (the past few years) to share their experience.

I will be going to the Immigration Department to find out all I need to know but I am all too aware that the first immigration officer will give you one process to follow and the second officer will give you another. Consistency within the Thai Civil Service is not a strong point. Some information from those that have gone through this process would be much appreciated.

PLEASE NOTE: I'm not looking for an unqualified opinion. I'm looking for facts. If you don't have any fact based information please don't post. Thank you.

[beano2274]

Some good pointers in this topic

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/617112-status-on-applying-for-thai-pr/

and it is not that long compared to some others.

[candypants]

if you want definitive advice, perhaps you should seek out a decent immigration lawyer.

[TommoPhysicist]

If you are male

You need a Thai wife, 3 years in a Yellow House book and 3 years tax returns for a full-time job with work permit and 3 years in Thailand on the correct VISA extension (not retirement, not something that requires VISA runs)

If you are working on some sort of temporary contract or a 1 year contract forget it, it has to be a permanent job.

If you have been on VISAs issued outside Thailand forget it, if you are on retirement extension forget it.

If you have been working as a school-teacher on less than 40k a month, forget it.

Edited March 5, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[Rooo]

Moving to Visas.

[samran]

Scrap the idea of heading to immigration. You need to head to special branch at police HQ on Rama I road in Bangkok.

Edited March 5, 2013 by samran

[conquest]

Thanks Beano2274. Some good info there which seems to agree with what I "think" I know to be correct. TommoPhysicist: I had never heard of the yellow book until now.(I've only just started considering Thai Nationality as I never thought I'd be here this long). I wonder if they will accept Utility Billls and Krung Thai Bank Credit Card bills in my name? I've lived at the same Condo for over seven years. I could get a letter from the Condominium Juridical Department confirming this. It may help. At least I now know about the yellow book!

[conquest]

Thanks Samran: "special branch at police HQ on Rama I road in Bangkok" Noted.

Edited March 5, 2013 by conquest

[TommoPhysicist]

Thanks Beano2274. Some good info there which seems to agree with what I "think" I know to be correct. TommoPhysicist: I had never heard of the yellow book until now.(I've only just started considering Thai Nationality as I never thought I'd be here this long). I wonder if they will accept Utility Billls and Krung Thai Bank Credit Card bills in my name? I've lived at the same Condo for over seven years. I could get a letter from the Condominium Juridical Department confirming this. It may help. At least I now know about the yellow book!

They won't move on yellow book ...... you gotta have it for 3 years.

[beano2274]

Got my yellow book 4 years ago in Nonthaburi, was not that hard, but seems they are asking for more, now you are required to have a document from Immigration, your passport, the condo papers your wife's blue book and ID Card as well as your WP.

[lopburi3]

Work permits have nothing to do with yellow house registration books AFAIK.

[GarryP]

Tommo, you are wrong about the visa part. I believe that everyone will be on a visa that was issued outside Thailand. However, it needs to have been extended in Thailand. For example, the visa I am currently on is a 90 day category B visa issued in London more than twenty years ago. I have had extensions on the same visa since then.

As to the house registration document (yellow for foreigners Tor Ror 13), it is a deal breaker. You cannot use anything else instead. However, you do not need to have been on the house registration for 3 years (Tommo is incorrect on this point). If your wife's house registration is for the condo unit you live in, then it would be quite easy to apply for and get your own yellow registration but would probably involve getting the condo management company involved. If not, and you are renting, then you would need to involve the owner of the condo, who would need to go down to the district office with you.

Please see the other threads on this subject and obtaining the yellow house registration for yourself. There is a lot of good information out there.

Edited March 5, 2013 by GarryP

[TommoPhysicist]

Tommo, you are wrong about the visa part. I believe that everyone will be on a visa that was issued outside Thailand. However, it needs to have been extended in Thailand. For example, the visa I am currently on is a 90 day category B visa issued in London more than twenty years ago. I have had extensions on the same visa since then.

That's what I said too!

Visa extension for 3 years ..... not retirement.

[GarryP]

If you are male

You need a Thai wife, 3 years in a Yellow House book and 3 years tax returns for a full-time job with work permit and 3 years in Thailand on the correct VISA extension (not retirement, not something that requires VISA runs)

If you are working on some sort of temporary contract or a 1 year contract forget it, it has to be a permanent job.

If you have been on VISAs issued outside Thailand forget it, if you are on retirement extension forget it.

If you have been working as a school-teacher on less than 40k a month, forget it.

Tommo, you are wrong about the visa part. I believe that everyone will be on a visa that was issued outside Thailand. However, it needs to have been extended in Thailand. For example, the visa I am currently on is a 90 day category B visa issued in London more than twenty years ago. I have had extensions on the same visa since then.

That's what I said too!

Visa extension for 3 years ..... not retirement.

Tommo, if you look at the text highlighted in red in your first post above, you clearly say "Visas issued outside Thailand". Perhaps, I am being obtuse (It does seem to conflict with the information in the first paragraph, anyway).

[lopburi3]

His meaning to me is visa entry only - no extensions of stay - as in multi entry non immigrant B/O visas. Not that we do not all start with a visa entry of some type and that it likely will be issued outside Thailand. Perhaps he should have added the word "staying on" to make it clearer.

[TommoPhysicist]

Lots of married people never get VISA extensions (which are all issued within Thailand)

They just get a new VISA in their own country each year, which don't count towards citizenship.

3 years in the country, no boarder runs, leaving only with re-entry permits.

How hard is that to understand?

[Ministry of Som Tam]

What exactly is the 'Yellow Book' and can someone post some links to threads explaining it,I've heard of Ben Bernanke and the Federal Reserve's Beige Book,is this one just older?

[Maestro]

What exactly is the 'Yellow Book' and can someone post some links to threads explaining it...

The "Yellow Book" is the household registration book (tabien baan) for foreigners. (The one for Thais is blue) There have been several recent topics about the yellow tabien baan, one of them here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/546618-yellow-tabien-baan-book/

[conquest]

I found this link on the Thai Special Branch website which gives all the information on how to apply for Thai Nationality including all the forms needed to apply (ready to download on pdf) http://www.sbpolice.go.th/page-service1.php

There is one statement that worries me a bit:

17. หนังสือรับรองของผู้ยื่นคาขอ ฯ ที่แสดงเจตนาจะสละสัญชาติเดิมจากสถานทูตหรือสถานกงสุลของประเทศที่ตนมีสัญชาติและตั้งอยู่ในประเทศไทย เมื่อได้รับอนุญาตให้แปลงสัญชาติเป็นไทย

17. Embassy certified affidavit of the applicant's intention to renounce their nationality once granted citizenship to Thailand.

I'm not too sure that I would want to actually renounce my British Nationality. I've intended to do many things in my life but not actually done them. Perhaps this could be just another thing that I had the intention to do but did not??

Edited March 6, 2013 by conquest

[TommoPhysicist]

They ask you if you are prepared to renounce ...... you say yes.

One of those little lies that everyone in Thailand can say without doing.

It's a bit like your wife saying "Do you love me?" there is only one answer.

Don't worry, you have to get a yellow book and wait 3 years before you can apply.

Edited March 6, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[Mario2008]

As you say, you state the intention. You do not actually need to do it, but must be aware that you cannot use your foreign pasport in Thailand. Making use of your old nationaity would be a reason to revoke your Thai nationality.

[GarryP]

You do not have to have been on the yellow house registration for three years. A common misunderstanding.

As to the declaration of intention to renounce nationality, without it you cannot apply. That is, your application will not be accepted. It is a non-issue for me personally but, in any case, I have not heard of anyone actually going through with renunciation once they have gained Thai nationality. There is another thread on this particular subject you should check out.

[samran]

You do not have to have been on the yellow house registration for three years. A common misunderstanding.

As to the declaration of intention to renounce nationality, without it you cannot apply. That is, your application will not be accepted. It is a non-issue for me personally but, in any case, I have not heard of anyone actually going through with renunciation once they have gained Thai nationality. There is another thread on this particular subject you should check out.

I was wondering about the 3 year rule. I know the rules are different between men and women, but when my wife went to apply for Thai nationality she was on a yellow book for the grand total of a week before we submitted the application.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly to clear this up.

[GarryP]

You do not have to have been on the yellow house registration for three years. A common misunderstanding.

As to the declaration of intention to renounce nationality, without it you cannot apply. That is, your application will not be accepted. It is a non-issue for me personally but, in any case, I have not heard of anyone actually going through with renunciation once they have gained Thai nationality. There is another thread on this particular subject you should check out.

I was wondering about the 3 year rule. I know the rules are different between men and women, but when my wife went to apply for Thai nationality she was on a yellow book for the grand total of a week before we submitted the application.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly to clear this up.

I was on one for about 8 months before I applied. I am a man by the way.

[Arkady]

if you want definitive advice, perhaps you should seek out a decent immigration lawyer.

Bad idea. Lawyers have no clue about this.

[Arkady]

If you are male

You need a Thai wife, 3 years in a Yellow House book and 3 years tax returns for a full-time job with work permit and 3 years in Thailand on the correct VISA extension (not retirement, not something that requires VISA runs)

If you are working on some sort of temporary contract or a 1 year contract forget it, it has to be a permanent job.

If you have been on VISAs issued outside Thailand forget it, if you are on retirement extension forget it.

If you have been working as a school-teacher on less than 40k a month, forget it.

3 years in yellow book not required but need to be in one. You will need to be on more than a 3 month visa run visa to get into the yellow book. Make sure you have a WP for the whole 3 years of your tax receipts. Changing jobs is OK but don't have any significant gaps.

[Satcommlee]

I found this link on the Thai Special Branch website which gives all the information on how to apply for Thai Nationality including all the forms needed to apply (ready to download on pdf) http://www.sbpolice.go.th/page-service1.php

There is one statement that worries me a bit:

17. หนังสือรับรองของผู้ยื่นคาขอ ฯ ที่แสดงเจตนาจะสละสัญชาติเดิมจากสถานทูตหรือสถานกงสุลของประเทศที่ตนมีสัญชาติและตั้งอยู่ในประเทศไทย เมื่อได้รับอนุญาตให้แปลงสัญชาติเป็นไทย

17. Embassy certified affidavit of the applicant's intention to renounce their nationality once granted citizenship to Thailand.

I'm not too sure that I would want to actually renounce my British Nationality. I've intended to do many things in my life but not actually done them. Perhaps this could be just another thing that I had the intention to do but did not??

It is not irreversible if you have family Ties etc.. back home, check the Home Office website.

Resuming your citizenship after giving it up

If you give up British citizenship or British overseas territories citizenship, you are allowed (only once) to resume that citizenship if it was necessary for you to give it up so that you could keep or gain some other citizenship. For details of how to do this, see resuming citizenship.

If you give up British citizenship more than once, or for another reason, the Home Secretary may allow you to resume your citizenship, depending on the circumstances.

If you give up British overseas territories citizenship more than once, or for another reason, the Governor of the British overseas territory concerned may allow you to resume your citizenship, depending on the circumstances.

If you give up British overseas citizenship, British subject status or British national (overseas) status, you cannot resume it.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Satcommlee

[Om85]

I will applay this year, right now I am getting all the documents that I need from my home country, bamk etc. Like you I've been married to a thai woman for five years, we have a daughter, i work for and import-export companny, and earn morw than 60,000 b/month, speak,write,read thai fluently and have been on a yeallow tabien baan for four years, I actually went the the HQ and they were very kind with me and explain everything, if you are married to a thai you can apply after been in yellow tabien baan for three years, you must have been living in thailand on yearly visas extensions forthree years, and during that time your income must be of more than 40,000b/month or payed taxes for the same amount,must be able to speak, read and write thai and you do not need to hav PR. when I went I asked the laidy in that attended me and she told me that due to my qualifications I have more of a 90% of getting the application aproved(do not know how much true is in that though) but the whole process can take up to two years, so in two weeks I will hav all my documents ready and will apply, so less cross fingers

[conquest]

Thanks to all that have posted so far on this thread. I have got some useful info from it. OM85: I would be interested to know how your application goes. Please post to say if you application was accepted. I will be going to the Special Branch next week to ask the same questions you asked. Lets see if I get the same answers. Its interesting to note that on the SB website it states on one document that the fee is 5,000 Baht but on another "Fees" section it states 10,000 Baht.

Doc 1: ค่าธรรมเนียมในการยื่นคาขอ ฯ มาชาระด้วย จานวน 5,000.-บาท

Doc 2: ค่าธรรมเนียม (๑) คาขอแปลงสัญชาติเป็นไทย ครั้งละ ๑๐,๐๐๐ บาท

I'm not suprised by this and I'm not going to get frustrated as I know the only thing that is consistent with government offices is their inconsistency. Just enjoy the ride.

[samran]

Thanks to all that have posted so far on this thread. I have got some useful info from it. OM85: I would be interested to know how your application goes. Please post to say if you application was accepted. I will be going to the Special Branch next week to ask the same questions you asked. Lets see if I get the same answers. Its interesting to note that on the SB website it states on one document that the fee is 5,000 Baht but on another "Fees" section it states 10,000 Baht.

Doc 1: ค่าธรรมเนียมในการยื่นคาขอ ฯ มาชาระด้วย จานวน 5,000.-บาท

Doc 2: ค่าธรรมเนียม (๑) คาขอแปลงสัญชาติเป็นไทย ครั้งละ ๑๐,๐๐๐ บาท

I'm not suprised by this and I'm not going to get frustrated as I know the only thing that is consistent with government offices is their inconsistency. Just enjoy the ride.

Isn't the first the application fee and the second the fee you pay if successful? We certainly paid the 5,000 and are expecting to pay somethign around 10K for when my wife does get naturalised...

In terms of frustration, so long as they think you are eligible, the folks down at special branch are rather helpful.

Edited March 7, 2013 by samran