Top Thai Democrats Face Charge Over Donation To Party

[webfact]

Top Democrats face charge over donation to party
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Special Investigation (DSI) yesterday summoned Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the Democrat Party.

Pol Col Nirand Adulyasak, commander of the Special Cases Division 1 of the DSI, said Sukhumbhand was asked to report himself to the DSI on March 14 to hear the charge.

Nirand alleged that Sukhumbhand had violated Article 57 of the Political Parties Act, which required that a donation to a political party of a sum of Bt20,000 and more must be made via a non-transferable cheque.

But Sukhumbhand had the House Secretariat deduct the money from his salary to directly credit the account of the Democrat Party in 2008.

He made the donation this way on five occasions, amounting to a Bt100,000 in total, Nirand said.

He said the DSI did not intend to persecute Sukhumbhand by raising the charge after he had won the Bangkok governor election on Sunday.

He said the DSI was simply following proper procedure but it had delayed charging Sukhumbhand when he was busy campaigning for the election.

Nirand said Sukhumbhand, Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and 46 other Democrat MPs had allegedly violated the party law by donating to their party this way.

He said the 48 Democrats had their salary deducted and credited to the Democrat Party account from 2008 to 2011. Abhisit alone made 21 donations through salary deduction, amounting to Bt15 million, Nirand said.

Nirand said the DSI would wait for the current parliamentary session to expire on April 20 before summoning 47 other Democrats to hear the charge.

He said he would be able to wrap up the case and submit an investigative report to DSI chief Tarit Pengdit in a month.

Violators of Article 57 of the Political Parties Act will be subject to a five-year political ban as well as three-year imprisonment and a fine.


-- The Nation 2013-03-09

[dcutman]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge
of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the
Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

Edited March 9, 2013 by dcutman

[OzMick]

Do the cheques have to be delivered by a man wearing a top hat and carrying a red flag? Perhaps not red in this case.

Edited March 9, 2013 by OzMick

[Payboy]

Abhisit alone made 21 donations through salary deduction, amounting to Bt15 million, Nirand said.

That averages more than 700k a pop. Gotta wonder what salary this guy was drawing.

[dcutman]

Abhisit alone made 21 donations through salary deduction, amounting to Bt15 million, Nirand said.

That averages more than 700k a pop. Gotta wonder what salary this guy was drawing.

The other paper reported 48 Dems donated 15 million in total. I know the Nation does some fine reporting and rarely gets facts confused , but I am gonna go with the other paper's report on this one.

[jayboy]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

I agree this does not seem like a very serious breach of the law, if indeed it is more than a technical breach.I believe it is quite normal for politicians in the West to make donations from their salaries to political parties.Indeed for many years ordinary citizens in the UK were compelled to make compulsory contributions to the Labour Party if their unions had "opted in".In this Thai story there are also some oddities, not least how DSI became aware of these payments given they were privately made between individuals and the Democrat party.Are they tax deductible? In short much less here than meets the eye if the only issue was that the payments were made by deduction of salary rather than by non-transferable cheque.So for any reasonable person this seems like a non event.

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

[smutcakes]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

How about it will go on until they stop breaking the law??? Or do you want to ignore people breaking the law?

[ratcatcher]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

I agree this does not seem like a very serious breach of the law, if indeed it is more than a technical breach.I believe it is quite normal for politicians in the West to make donations from their salaries to political parties.Indeed for many years ordinary citizens in the UK were compelled to make compulsory contributions to the Labour Party if their unions had "opted in".In this Thai story there are also some oddities, not least how DSI became aware of these payments given they were privately made between individuals and the Democrat party.Are they tax deductible? In short much less here than meets the eye if the only issue was that the payments were made by deduction of salary rather than by non-transferable cheque.So for any reasonable person this seems like a non event.

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

I don't always agree with you jb but you make a good point. I had to think twice about it.

[Robby nz]

I was wondering if any other political parties in this country have ever received donations from MP's or other party member by any other method than by the legal means of non-transferable cheque?

If so when will the investigation against them begin?

Does it mean that if someone made a donation of cash to a political party, even if a receipt was given that they would be breaking the law?

[Robby nz]

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

The problem with your post JB is that only specific people are being targeted.

If indeed there was a general investigation into who, from any party, had broken this law and all those discovered to have broken it were all treated equally regardless of which party they belonged to then I would agree with you.

But as we can all see it is just another part of a witch hunt against those of one party

[jayboy]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

I agree this does not seem like a very serious breach of the law, if indeed it is more than a technical breach.I believe it is quite normal for politicians in the West to make donations from their salaries to political parties.Indeed for many years ordinary citizens in the UK were compelled to make compulsory contributions to the Labour Party if their unions had "opted in".In this Thai story there are also some oddities, not least how DSI became aware of these payments given they were privately made between individuals and the Democrat party.Are they tax deductible? In short much less here than meets the eye if the only issue was that the payments were made by deduction of salary rather than by non-transferable cheque.So for any reasonable person this seems like a non event.

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

I don't always agree with you jb but you make a good point. I had to think twice about it.

Thank you.I appreciate your honesty.

[smedly]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

How about it will go on until they stop breaking the law??? Or do you want to ignore people breaking the law?

well there's breaking the law and then there's breaking the law - did these people attempt to cheat defraud or have any other unlawful activity apart from save paper - a court would laugh at this and maybe even bring charges against the DSI for wasting their time - it's total nonesense

[jayboy]

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

The problem with your post JB is that only specific people are being targeted.

If indeed there was a general investigation into who, from any party, had broken this law and all those discovered to have broken it were all treated equally regardless of which party they belonged to then I would agree with you.

But as we can all see it is just another part of a witch hunt against those of one party

Er, no.It seems to be aimed at specific individuals.But my question remains - if the same charge had been applied to specific PTP politicians would you be leaping to their defence?

[smutcakes]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

How about it will go on until they stop breaking the law??? Or do you want to ignore people breaking the law?

well there's breaking the law and then there's breaking the law - did these people attempt to cheat defraud or have any other unlawful activity apart from save paper - a court would laugh at this and maybe even bring charges against the DSI for wasting their time - it's total nonesense

I agree, its a nonsense, but its a law so you either choose to uphold it or ignore it.

[Robby nz]

Er, no.It seems to be aimed at specific individuals.But my question remains - if the same charge had been applied to specific PTP politicians would you be leaping to their defence?

Well JB I haven't leapt to anyone's defense I simple pointed out that it is targeted at only certain people and this seems somewhat unfair.

And 'praise be' you agree with me. Although you left out admitting to the unfairness.

Now if, as you say it was targeted at only PT then yes I would be inclined to point out the unfairness just as I have done in this instance.

[smutcakes]

Er, no.It seems to be aimed at specific individuals.But my question remains - if the same charge had been applied to specific PTP politicians would you be leaping to their defence?

Well JB I haven't leapt to anyone's defense I simple pointed out that it is targeted at only certain people and this seems somewhat unfair.

And 'praise be' you agree with me. Although you left out admitting to the unfairness.

Now if, as you say it was targeted at only PT then yes I would be inclined to point out the unfairness just as I have done in this instance.

haha course you would.

[AleG]

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

The problem with your post JB is that only specific people are being targeted.

If indeed there was a general investigation into who, from any party, had broken this law and all those discovered to have broken it were all treated equally regardless of which party they belonged to then I would agree with you.

But as we can all see it is just another part of a witch hunt against those of one party

Er, no.It seems to be aimed at specific individuals.But my question remains - if the same charge had been applied to specific PTP politicians would you be leaping to their defence?

I, for one, would. This is obviously an archaic law, the spirit of which, to know where the money comes from is perfectly upheld by a banking transaction. They know from who, how much and when the money was moved so what would be the difference between a check and an account debit?

[bigbamboo]

When PT said they were prepared to work seamlessly with the Bangkok governor I didn't realise it would mean his spending most of the time with Tart at the DSI.

[Robby nz]

I agree, its a nonsense, but its a law so you either choose to uphold it or ignore it.

You sir are going to have to work out just where you stand on the judges and law of this country

From a post by you on another subject

You are joking i take it? you really believe the judges are not corrupt. Have you read the news this week? Regardless of whether PTP, Democrats whoever is leading the Government, they are as bent as you like. As are the PTP, Democrats, police, army etc

[smedly]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

How about it will go on until they stop breaking the law??? Or do you want to ignore people breaking the law?

well there's breaking the law and then there's breaking the law - did these people attempt to cheat defraud or have any other unlawful activity apart from save paper - a court would laugh at this and maybe even bring charges against the DSI for wasting their time - it's total nonesense

I agree, its a nonsense, but its a law so you either choose to uphold it or ignore it.

Look there's a certain amount of common sense you need to apply here, I suspect that a lot of these laws in place are old and need updated, over the years people used to be paid in cash then it went to cheque then it went to bank transfer, even in England there are old silly laws still on the books - would you honestly expect someone to be charged and convicted of breaking an egg on the sharp end or being drunk in a bar - like I said there's an element of common sense to the law - it's not as black and white as you may think - Law and Crime are not the same

[smutcakes]

I agree, its a nonsense, but its a law so you either choose to uphold it or ignore it.

You sir are going to have to work out just where you stand on the judges and law of this country

From a post by you on another subject

>You are joking i take it? you really believe the judges are not corrupt. Have you read the news this week? Regardless of whether PTP, Democrats whoever is leading the Government, they are as bent as you like. As are the PTP, Democrats, police, army etc

I fail to see the point you are making. The judges are corrupt, the law is a nonsense-does that mean now law breaking should be followed up? Again i am not quite sure what you are alluding.

Going back to Jayboys comment, it would be interesting to see the sentiment if this had been a PTP politician, by now we would have had ten pages, and Buchholz toys would be all over the floor.

[Fozfromoz]

When PT said they were prepared to work seamlessly with the Bangkok governor I didn't realise it would mean his spending most of the time with Tart at the DSI.

Of course he ( Bangkok Governor) has to get to take up his post yet

[h90]

Bangkok governor-elect Sukhumbhand Paribatra to hear the charge

of breaking the law in the manner of his donation of his salary to the

Democrat Party.

How long will this DSI Democrat witch hunt go on for? If their going to waste recourse's , can they at least find something more exciting, than the Dems donating money to themselves.

I agree this does not seem like a very serious breach of the law, if indeed it is more than a technical breach.I believe it is quite normal for politicians in the West to make donations from their salaries to political parties.Indeed for many years ordinary citizens in the UK were compelled to make compulsory contributions to the Labour Party if their unions had "opted in".In this Thai story there are also some oddities, not least how DSI became aware of these payments given they were privately made between individuals and the Democrat party.Are they tax deductible? In short much less here than meets the eye if the only issue was that the payments were made by deduction of salary rather than by non-transferable cheque.So for any reasonable person this seems like a non event.

But here's the question for those who leap to Sukhumband et al's defence.Would you also apply the same standards to other politicians (incl PTP) if they were being investigated on the same charge, or would the usual suspects argue that ignorance of the law is no excuse and if found guilty the culprits should suffer the full penalty of the law inculding prison and/or a 5 year political ban.Based on past standard of intellectual honesty I think I already know the answer.

Yes right, the usual problem....my party list is doing something wrong, than it is a technical detail, if the other does the same it is almost treason but at least something very bad.

Reminds me on the free speech ideas in Europe (Thailand isn't different)....shouting free speech, and how important it is if it is the own thing and call for hardest punishment if it is the others....

[ballpoint]

I agree, its a nonsense, but its a law so you either choose to uphold it or ignore it.

You sir are going to have to work out just where you stand on the judges and law of this country

From a post by you on another subject

>You are joking i take it? you really believe the judges are not corrupt. Have you read the news this week? Regardless of whether PTP, Democrats whoever is leading the Government, they are as bent as you like. As are the PTP, Democrats, police, ar

my etc

I fail to see the point you are making. The judges are corrupt, the law is a nonsense-does that mean now law breaking should be followed up? Again i am not quite sure what you are alluding.

Going back to Jayboys comment, it would be interesting to see the sentiment if this had been a PTP politician, by now we would have had ten pages, and Buchholz toys would be all over the floor.

That is pure conjecture on your part. What we do know, however, is that when Thaksin was prosecuted on the land sale case we got, and continue to get, pages and pages of sob stories from the forum's red supporters. I find it truly ironic that those who have continually told us "it's politically motivated" and "it's a technicality", not to mention the cries about a lawful dispersal of protestors, are now trying to play "the law must be upheld, no matter what" card.

[smutcakes]

That is pure conjecture on your part. What we do know, however, is that when Thaksin was prosecuted on the land sale case we got, and continue to get, pages and pages of sob stories from the forum's red supporters. I find it truly ironic that those who have continually told us "it's politically motivated" and "it's a technicality", not to mention the cries about a lawful dispersal of protestors, are now trying to play "the law must be upheld, no matter what" card.

Well when you are talking about red supporters, i hope you are not referring to me. I have no qualms in saying Thaksin was/is guilty, corrupt etc etc albeit the very fact that a wealthy/influential person was found guilty in Thailand indicates there is an element of politics about it. I also don't really disagree with the clearing of the protesters. I took issue with one comment seemingly alluding that this illegality should not be followed up. Anyway its much ado about nothing, i thought i read somewhere that it was not even PTP but independents who had filed the complaints to the EC.

Edited March 9, 2013 by PoorSucker
Mixed up qoutes removed

[jonnyscot]

I wonder how reliable the postal service is from Dubai ?

[LomSak27]

According to long standing RUMORS one reason the Dems have been the less corrupt party is the private sector is a direct depositer ---- for the rights to use the country as a vending machine - insert money, pull lever, get candy bar.

Again to according to experts this ennables them (Dems) to not pillage goverment as much as other parties. However this of course in no way means they are "cleaner"

[Buchholz]

Abhisit alone made 21 donations through salary deduction, amounting to Bt15 million, Nirand said.

That averages more than 700k a pop. Gotta wonder what salary this guy was drawing.

It certainly is not their salary. Especially not over a 3 year period.

15 million represents more than 15 years of donating 100% of an MP/PM salary.

Police Colonel Nirand or The Nation need to recalibrate their calculators.

.

[jayboy]

I don't normally do hypotheticals but it is really a stretch to suggest that if PTP politicians were being investigated by the DSI, the usual suspects would not be swarming like horseflies over the subject.</p>

Probably no more of a stretch than it is to suggest that all those here who have taken the "the law is the law, it must be followed" line, would be saying the same thing were it a PTP politician.

But as far as I can see most forum members generally sympathetic to the government aren't saying that.On the contrary most have agreed this is nothing more than a technical charge.

Edited March 9, 2013 by PoorSucker
quote fixed

[rixalex]

I don't normally do hypotheticals but it is really a stretch to suggest that if PTP politicians were being investigated by the DSI, the usual suspects would not be swarming like horseflies over the subject.</p>

Probably no more of a stretch than it is to suggest that all those here who have taken the "the law is the law, it must be followed" line, would be saying the same thing were it a PTP politician.

But as far as I can see most forum members generally sympathetic to the government aren't saying that.On the contrary most have agreed this is nothing more than a technical charge.

Suggest your read the thread again then.