Are You Part Of The Farang Detritus Layer?

[tartempion]

6. You are concerned about how to provide the funds to meet the qualification amounts of 400KTHB and 800KTHB for a marriage or retirement visa

Thus I am a Farang Detritus Layer because I dare consider that 20k euro 3 years ago converted to 1 million+ Thai Baht and April 2013 converts to 740K baht.

OP, you are a troll indeed in my book

[FunFon]

6. You are concerned about how to provide the funds to meet the qualification amounts of 400KTHB and 800KTHB for a marriage or retirement visa

-

No matter the cause, the OP's point is that if this really is an issue for you, then you should realize you aren't really welcome here.

And from a practical POV, things are going to get more difficult in months and years to come, not easier, and forewarned is forearmed.

I didn't actually interpret that fancy detritus layer as actually being his own judgement but his perception (accurate IMO) of how TPTB in Thailand view those of us that fit in that category.

[Tchooptip]

I find referring to human beings as detritus to be unnecessarily trollish, but I get the gist of your question, and suggest you do a POLL about it.

Good idea... may be he'll get 2/3 answers

Thailand provides one of the few advantages in life to being over age 50.

Thailand provides one of the few advantages in life to being over age 50 with a girlfriend under thirty

Edited April 19, 2013 by Tchooptip

[kevvy]

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones then.

ME TOO

[kevvy]

I do not see the issue with Thailand enforcing it's own immigration policy. Try renewing a "tourist visa" repeatedly by crossing a border and then returning to the USA, or most western countries. I don't think you would be able to do that in your home country. A tourist visa is for a tourist not someone that lives there for years at a time. My personal opinion is that the immigration policies of Thailand are overall quite reasonable.

I guess if you are breaking the law and working illegally then enforcing immigration policies might seem unreasonable, but you are wrong.

I met a lady in Malaysia who has to fly out with her daughter every 90 days, fly back in and they stamp her passport no problems. The issue in Thailand is that people were rorting the system to work illegally - obviously, Malaysia has sufficient enforcement in place to ensure that this doesn't happen. Both countries have major problems with corruption but clearly the Malaysians have decided that it's better to punish the people who are actually working illegally than treat every new arrival as a potential outlaw. By contrast, the qualification requirements for their MM2H retirement visa are much tougher than Thailand - things really only get easier when you buy a home in Malaysia - making the visa run (ok - visa exemption run ..) much more attractive than it currently is in Thailand.

Malaysia has a very good program called "my second home "

[thequietman]

6. You are concerned about how to provide the funds to meet the qualification amounts of 400KTHB and 800KTHB for a marriage or retirement visa

-

No matter the cause, the OP's point is that if this really is an issue for you, then you should realize you aren't really welcome here.

And from a practical POV, things are going to get more difficult in months and years to come, not easier, and forewarned is forearmed.

I didn't actually interpret that fancy detritus layer as actually being his own judgement but his perception (accurate IMO) of how TPTB in Thailand view those of us that fit in that category.

Very true. Please bear in mind also that a thai man only has to sign a declaration that he can support his spouse. That's it. Nothing more. Are the visa laws impartial, certainly not. Why does a foreigner have to show finances that the majority of thais don't make in a life time, never mind a year.

The visa laws certainly favor the thai man. If they were fair across the board then fine, its their laws and we must abide.

But something as blatant as this should not be overlooked.

Why should a thai man get more favorable visa conditions for a spouse that that of a thai woman ????

[Konini]

Tough. I've gotta live somehow. If not Thailand then it's Cambodia or Vietnam. But I'm not living in america anymore. It's gotten too expensive and I just don't like living there.

The problem is the system wants to pay us peanuts but then doesn't want to deal with the refuse(us) it has created. That is totally unfair. If they want to treat us like gypsies so be it. I'll just travel around from country to country with my laptop.

I don't really agree with you entirely. There is work in America for those that actually want to work. It is just that many people have made the choice not to get an education that would provide a job with an adequate income. Some people just don't want to go to where the work is.

I think this is a really pertinent point here, although we are heading a long way off-topic.

I've recently been educating myself on early civilisations; they moved to where ever they could ensure their survival. People want food and safety. A City fits the bill perfectly. All previous generations have moved to new or different cities to be where the work was, going back as far as the people in cities of Sumer and Ur. It's part of how civilisations were created. Plain and simple. My own family moved - my father was a coal miner and when his pit was exhausted, he (and the rest of the family) had to go to a new pit 100 miles away. Fast forward 20 years, Thatcher's Britain, my husband and I moved to the other side of the world, because there were more opportunities in Australia than in England.

The Current generation are reluctant to move to where the work is because it's 'inconvenient' or some similarly lame excuse. Over thousands of years, people have moved so that they can work, they work so they can eat etc ect. This current generation seems to be refusing to. What I've recently learned about early settlements and mass movements of populations is leaving me wondering if they are creating a future of nothing for themselves.

[FunFon]

Very true. Please bear in mind also that a thai man only has to sign a declaration that he can support his spouse. That's it. Nothing more. Are the visa laws impartial, certainly not. Why does a foreigner have to show finances that the majority of thais don't make in a life time, never mind a year.

The visa laws certainly favor the thai man. If they were fair across the board then fine, its their laws and we must abide. But something as blatant as this should not be overlooked. Why should a thai man get more favorable visa conditions for a spouse that that of a thai woman ????

-

Because Thais aren't stupid enough to try to pretend that women are equal in every way to men.

At least on the surface wrt political/economic/legal issues, men run the show here.

At home it might be different, but as we know in Thailand what's on the surface is what really counts, underlying reality can just be imagined not to exist and poof it doesn't.

Look at it as an advantage for farang women, to compensate them for being married to a Thai man, rather than unfair to Thai women, who already have the advantages of getting to spend their time with wonderful us!

And of course if they were to "fix" this, they would simply make it just as hard for farang women, not easier for us men.

Edited April 19, 2013 by FunFon

[FunFon]

Over thousands of years, people have moved so that they can work, they work so they can eat etc ect. This current generation seems to be refusing to. What I've recently learned about early settlements and mass movements of populations is leaving me wondering if they are creating a future of nothing for themselves.

-

Yes but a little barrier called nationalism has reared its ugly head in the meantime since Sumer and Ur.

I certainly wish all the Thais and Chinese could move to work in my home country so wages could equalise worldwide, and I wish I were allowed to go work wherever I wanted to, but these stupid things called passports and labour laws prevent that.

[bangkokburning]

The irony being is that everyone has visa problems. No one save Elite card remnants have visas good for over a year. So we all hang by a thread, the whim and good graces of a tenous government.

Why does evryone have a need to pass judgement of me based upon their arbitrary financial stamdard?

The other irony is that if all you non deritui had any real money youd be back in your home countries or in the Carribean or Southern Europe.

Most of you are a bunch of working class stiffs with little or no formal education. You had a crappy babbit of a job or worked in high paying but back breaking manual labor. You divorced your wife, left your kids and moved around the world to spend the bslsnce of your days in a culture wholly foreign to you, which you secretly dislike and dont understand. You stay because its cheap - as are the women, which you rent by the hour.

The retiree brigade always clings to money as their anchor to claim expatriateship. Having failed for not even trying when it came to language, culture, integration, food, etc...

We all doin' fine bro. We will be the last to leave, not your lot - mark my words. You came late and will leave early from the party. Typical ingrate guest.

Id be shocked if a dozen people on this board were worth over 5 million usd each.

And good luck with your stupid pensions, unfunded liabilities and all that...

Edited April 19, 2013 by bangkokburning

[yourauntbob]

IMO Thailand has a way of selectively enforcing laws. They create a web in which is impossible to fully comply so that should the need come, they can give you the boot.

-

Don't let's us flatter ourselves, the primary purpose for the arbitrary enforcement of overly-complex laws being inherent to the kingdom's "legal system" is to facilitate corruption, arbitrary exercise of power by and on behalf of the real behind-the-scenes PTB that actually run the joint, government officials, police and politicians simply being their puppets just as in most countries around the world..

However this issue within Thailand is 99.99% a Thai-on-Thai problem, nothing to do with foreigners.

The fact that any sufficiently powerful Thai can have almost any of us kicked out, or tossed in the monkey house and prevented from leaving if they prefer, is just a tiny side benefit of the system.

Agreed, but I was trying to relate it to the topic.

[Konini]

Over thousands of years, people have moved so that they can work, they work so they can eat etc ect. This current generation seems to be refusing to. What I've recently learned about early settlements and mass movements of populations is leaving me wondering if they are creating a future of nothing for themselves.

-

Yes but a little barrier called nationalism has reared its ugly head in the meantime since Sumer and Ur.

I certainly wish all the Thais and Chinese could move to work in my home country so wages could equalise worldwide, and I wish I were allowed to go work wherever I wanted to, but these stupid things called passports and labour laws prevent that.

Equalisation goes against the natural order of things. It was never meant to be, otherwise communism may have had more chance of success.

You realise that your talents are largely wasted here. Of course you do, I didn't even make it rhetorical.

[finy]

I earn money from abroad and spend it in Thailand.

They should be thankful to have me.

They are blessed I choose to live here without a work visa.

[krisb]

I find referring to human beings as detritus to be unnecessarily trollish, but I get the gist of your question, and suggest you do a POLL about it.

I don't think the poll would reflect the truth.

Who wants to publicly admit to being on the wrong side ?

Yermanee

Troll poll...lol. Edited April 20, 2013 by krisb

[taninthai]

The point of the post is this.

There are many people living here on little more than deluded optimism.

Optimism is a good thing.

Failing to acknowledge realities, and acting or planning accordingly, is not.

The criteria for Western farangs to stay here (long term) are going to continue to become more onerous in the immediate future.

ASEAN and inflation are in clear view on the horizon.

If you are part of the farang detritus layer you need to start planning your exit strategy NOW.

Alternatively, you need to start planning how you are going to raise yourself above the socio-economic layer of farangs that the Thai elite are systematically seeking to preclude from this nation.

Great thread Phronesis....true to your username...wink..wink

..exit strategies......ermmm

It all depends on a number of factors but I think the most important are AGE and MONEY.

If I was under 50 and considering Thailand today...I wouldn't live here...long term that is..

...but if I was rich and/or highly skilled I would...although other countries would, indeed, offer better choices.

Pensioners who have been here awhile but suffer from depreciating currencies...it might be a good idea to stick around and adjust...new beginnings at 67 and with limited means are not promising..better the devil you know

It's a very complicated affair overall....individual circumstances differ vastly.

Truth is, the thai govt has been making life difficult for us.....chances are, the trend will continue....

Younger people, take note..

Truth is, the thai govt has been making life difficult for us.

Care to give some examples within say the last 10 years.

If anything the gov't has made it easier, eg student visas.

3-4 years ago you could get a 1 year non immigrant visa from the uk on the basis of visiting friends yep that all you had to tick on the form visiting friends.

They done away with this making it virtually impossible for anyone under 50 to come here and stay with in visa rules....... How's that for an example

[soi41]

^^^ @taninthai.

So if you think it so bad, they took the "visiting friends" window away, then in all fairness it should be okay for Mohammed and Ismail to get a one year visa to your homecountry to visit Fatima and Mahmoud? Or ? Do I didn't think so!

As with any country, Thailand are in charge of which people, they allow in to country. And there will always be some people not happy with the rules, just like I am sure, that some of the people not allowed to enter our homecountries, are not agreeing with the immigration in charge of their faith.

IMO Thailand has quite generous immigrationlaws, and most of the complaints here are coming from people who can't honour the economic requirements decided by the Thai government. Or who have run out of options on, how to circumvent the system!

[taninthai]

^

geez no wonder the general forum the way it is ,someone asked for an example of changes in visas so I gave an example ,you then have an idiot going on to rant about Muslims <deleted>

Jfyi soi 41 I didn't give an opinion whether it's good or bad none of it affects me as I am married,just gave an example which someone else asked for are you ok with that.........

[DerekMarshall]

good post and thanks for the warnings. I too am retired (invalidity pension from my country of permanent residence not birth nor nationality) but fortunately I do have enough funds in the bank for marriage / retirement visa but I am waaaay short of the 50 years old age bracket (more than a decade short).

Just out of interest and curiosity how does/would it work out if one mixed and matched their visas, to say do a pick and mix! mixing up their double entry visas with a couple of VOA´s before reapplying for a new tourist visa or indeed a different visa altogether say a non immigrant O visa by doing some volunteering locally or indeed an ED visa. In short not applying for the same visa (type O, ED, tourist, etc) back to back?

Unless I am completely mistaken, can´t someone apply for a retirement visa if they are under the required age permitting that

1) they are receiving a pension that is above the stipulated minimum amount (can´t remember what that is, please state anyone if you know - thanks)

2) have documentary evidence that it is indeed a pension that you are receiving and

3) be classified as a pensioner in your own country or by the country that you are receiving the pension from

If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me.

[Eesat]

good post and thanks for the warnings. I too am retired (invalidity pension from my country of permanent residence not birth nor nationality) but fortunately I do have enough funds in the bank for marriage / retirement visa but I am waaaay short of the 50 years old age bracket (more than a decade short).

Just out of interest and curiosity how does/would it work out if one mixed and matched their visas, to say do a pick and mix! mixing up their double entry visas with a couple of VOA´s before reapplying for a new tourist visa or indeed a different visa altogether say a non immigrant O visa by doing some volunteering locally or indeed an ED visa. In short not applying for the same visa (type O, ED, tourist, etc) back to back?

Unless I am completely mistaken, can´t someone apply for a retirement visa if they are under the required age permitting that

1) they are receiving a pension that is above the stipulated minimum amount (can´t remember what that is, please state anyone if you know - thanks)

2) have documentary evidence that it is indeed a pension that you are receiving and

3) be classified as a pensioner in your own country or by the country that you are receiving the pension from

If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me.

I'm pretty sure that you won't get a retirement visa if you are under 50,the education visa would definitely be the best one for you.As far as I know the ED visas are renewable indefinitely,Walen school actually advertises 'Unlimited stay in Thailand' with their ED visas!

[Jaybonnaza]

There is some absolute bs on here - do you really liable every Thai as a user of a farang ? You need to get out more op As your picking the wrong sort up!

[Soutpeel]

education visa would definitely be the best one for you.As far as I know the ED visas are renewable indefinitely,Walen school actually advertises 'Unlimited stay in Thailand' with their ED visas!

Has it occurred to you that this is the reason why they cracking down on Ed visa's

in other words people are abusing this route.

Abuse of the system is why they are also cracking down n other apsects as well

[Soutpeel]

Unless I am completely mistaken, can´t someone apply for a retirement visa if they are under the required age permitting that

1) they are receiving a pension that is above the stipulated minimum amount (can´t remember what that is, please state anyone if you know - thanks)

2) have documentary evidence that it is indeed a pension that you are receiving and

3) be classified as a pensioner in your own country or by the country that you are receiving the pension from

If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me.

Your mistaken...if your under 50 you cant get a retirement visa..its that simple

[Soutpeel]

IMO Thailand has quite generous immigrationlaws, and most of the complaints here are coming from people who can't honour the economic requirements decided by the Thai government. Or who have run out of options on, how to circumvent the system!

Interesting point

As the ar*e has fallen out of most of the currencies against the THB, one suspects it will not be long before the Thai goverment starts increasing those financial requirements for farangs....

[JLCrab]

US Dollar down about 6 % YTD versus Thai baht; DJIA up about 11% YTD

[Jaybonnaza]

It is really worrying the way the economy is going! I personally have been caught of guard with gold , now waiting for it to return other wise I sit on a massive loss (dowry returned) and I bought at 25k baht a baht .

[cooked]

If they do increase the financial requirements, let's hope that those of us that moved in before will be allowed to stay on the original terms (as they were last time the requirements went up).

I came here to get married, and am at present on ฿43 000.-, the Swiss Frank has been slowly slipping in value against the Baht.( I will be receiving a bit more money per month soon). I could live very well on much less, at present I am supporting my wife, as well as her daughter in law and her daughter, and occasionally help out with purchasing farming equipment and still paying off taxes from my last year working as well as insurance.

I would never have believed that I would have a problem because of the Swiss Frank and am crossing my fingers for any one else in a similar situation.

Many people are desperately honestly trying to legalise their situation, you can't expect people that have been here for many years with family and stuff just one day to up sticks and move on.

[Payboy]

the removal low net worth foreigners

Dam_n who's gonna take society's discarded women offa our hands.

[corkythecat]

What about those of us in jail?

[Scully]

I know a man who took his Thai wife back to his Western country, she took him to the cleaners house, car the lot. He realises it was his own stupidity he even signed over his house , but he came back fell in love and now has to live under the radar.

A 1000bht a month shack, a pension that is gone each month just to get by.

Life has a habit of kicking you while you are down and this man is seriously down, he now is looking for an escape root, with little option but to leave the woman he loves.

Personally I am OK but I often feel sorry for these people while other people seem wallow in their good luck and self importance, but we all know one or two of them.

[Star Dust]

point 6 is why I'm leaving on Tuesday.

13 years it took them to drive me out of here.