First Time Uk Visa For Thai Partner - Visitor Or Settlement Visa?

[TCA]

Firstly, thanks to all for the great info posted here. It's a tremendous resource for those in need of guidance. And that definitely includes me!

OK, as the subject says I'd appreciate a bit of guidance on the likelihood of getting either a visitor visa or settlement visa for my Thai girlfriend/partner (of nearly 4 years) and have given a summary below of the circumstances surrounding the potential application.

Generally, I see this process as the start of a permanent move to the UK for both us (so would like as long as possible from the visa), but as my girlfriend has never visited the UK (or left Thailand), I'm sure a settlement visa is probably not about to be granted straight off. But I also see difficulties in proving a reason to return to Thailand if we go the tourist visa route.

Anyway, here's the facts:

1) Me - British citizen living in Thailand since Oct 2007, initially on Non-Immigrant O visas and ED visas and in the last year tourist visas. Annual visits to the UK (usually less than 1 month) but more over the last year and a half. In terms of income I have savings in the UK (greater than £62,500) and this would be my preference to use as evidence as sponsor.

2) Partner - Thai national and Thai passport holder but has never travelled outside of Thailand. We have been a couple together in Thailand for nearly 4 years, living together in 4 different rented accommodations since September 2009.

Although having worked in the past, my girlfriend is not currently employed, but does casual work on occasions for a guesthouse. In the case of a tourist visa application, I'm sure the owner would write a "keeping the job open" type of letter but guess that's probably not plausible if we wanted to stay for 5 or 6 months on a visitor visa. Could shorten the trip of course.

We have also just taken on rental of a rice farm for 4 years, albeit the contract is in my girlfriend's mum's name. For an alternative reason to return (visitor visa application), my girlfriend would want to be in Thailand to supervise the rice harvest. That's perfectly true and genuine, although not exactly provable.

3) Evidence of all the above:

Accommodation - nearly all our property rental contracts have been in my name only. 3 long term rentals in my name, 1 short term rental in my girlfriend's name. But I could go back to the owners and get signed confirmation or rewritten contracts to testify that we both lived there as a couple. All utility bills (electric and gas) have been in the name of the property owner but I have an internet bill from our first rental in my name and the current internet bill is in my girlfriend's name. So not much really.

For UK accommodation we'd stay with my parents and no problem getting written confirmation of that plus a copy of the house deeds.

Finance - my girlfriend has no income or savings of her own of any note, so as sponsor I would provide bank statements to verify my savings. They are internet accounts but I have paper copies received by post. I would also pay for the return flight if we're talking visitor visa.

General - as we live together we obviously don't have copies of email correspondence or the like but I'm guessing that's hardly necessary in our case. We do have plenty photos going back over 3 years, which will also show the properties we have lived in.

Family - my girlfriend's 8 year old daughter has lived with us for the past year but previously grew up with her grandmother and grandfather. If successful with a UK visa application, the plan would be that she'd return to them and we'd possibly think about her joining us in the UK when a bit older. From my reading however, the circumstances surrounding her daughter are probably not relevant, although just for info I have supported her daughter and my girlfriend's family to an extent, since we've been together. With regards to my own family, my mum visited (and stayed with us) in Thailand for the first time last year, so has met my girlfriend. It's also mum's 70th birthday later this year, so we'd both like to be in the UK for that, but that would be stretching a tourist visa if we leave in the next few months.

OK, can't think of any more to add. Apologies for the long post but it's complicated stuff.

I'm a bit lost as to my partner's chances, given she's a first time applicant who has never left Thailand so can't cover the requirement "evidence that you and your partner have visited one another's home country and family". Also the fact that I'm not already in the UK in paid employment confuses me as to why they'd grant a visitor visa. Would it even help if we were married?

Anyway I'm starting to go round in circles, so if anyone can give me a steer that would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

TCA

Edited March 11, 2013 by TCA

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Hello if you have £62500 in the bank you are exempt from the new financial requirements.

[7by7]

As you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years your girlfriend would qualify for settlement as your unmarried partner.

If the intention is for your girlfriend and her daughter to live in the UK, why bother with a visit visa? Unless she wants to see what the UK is like before committing to living there.

Have a read of UK Visit Visa Basics and UK Settlement Visa Basics.

[theoldgit]

Indeed you and your partner would be able to settle in the UK if that's what you both want, as 7by7 advises, you seem to have lived in a relationship akin to marriage for more than two years and have the required amount of savings to qualify without the income requirements.

There is absolutely no reason why your partner wouldn't be successful despite the fact she hasn't been out of Thailand before.

You seem concerned that your girlfriend may not settle in the UK in which case you may feel that an extended visit might be appropriate, again no reason why such an application wouldn't successful, especially if she outlines her plans for the future in her application.

Good luck to you both.

[TCA]

Thanks very much for all the replies. Very encouraging indeed.

I wholly expected to be told that unmarried partner settlement visas would rarely be issued to anyone who hadn't even visited the UK before. Not sure why I thought that. I'd fully expect my girlfriend to really enjoy the UK and so if we're going to make the move, I'm inclined to try for the longer term settlement visa.

Re the tourist visa, I was stuck on the notion of providing evidence of a reason to return to Thailand, but from what theoldgit is saying, she could actually request a longer stay in order to make a more informed decision about permanent settlement. Given my ramblings above, I'm still not sure how we'd demonstrate reason to return to Thailand but I'll park that idea for now and ask, if I may, a couple more questions on the unmarried partner visa application.

The regulations state: If you are applying to enter the UK, or for permission to stay or settle here, you will need to satisfy us that your relationship is genuine and subsisting..... we would expect you to be able to show evidence that you:

are in a current, long-term relationship;

are living together with your partner;

share responsibility with your partner for any children;

share financial responsibilities with your partner, such as a joint mortgage or tenancy agreement, a joint bank account or joint savings, and utility bills in both your names;

and your partner have visited one another's home country and family; and

you have made plans about living together in the UK with your partner.

That lot looks pretty onerous, which is why I detailed my circumstances above to see if anyone rated our chances. As stated in my first post, we can do little more than provide property rental contracts, a couple of internet bills and a plethora of photos. Even for the rental contracts we'd have to go back to the owners and get them to sign to say we both lived there together as most have my name only on them.

All our banking is separate and not sure how I'd demonstrate any responsibility for my girlfriend's daughter, other than the fact that she's lived with us for the past year. I'm not sure how that would then look that we're not applying for a visa for the daughter too! And there's the thing again in the list about visiting each other's home country and family. I've met her mum and she's met mine (in Thailand) but that's it.

These are the things which made me think my partner's settlement application wouldn't be that easy. But you guys reckon there's no reason she wouldn't get a visa with only the above for evidence of "a genuine and subsisting relationship"?

[Tony M]

The regulations state: If you are applying to enter the UK, or for permission to stay or settle here, you will need to satisfy us that your relationship is genuine and subsisting..... we would expect you to be able to show evidence that you:

are in a current, long-term relationship;

are living together with your partner;

share responsibility with your partner for any children;

share financial responsibilities with your partner, such as a joint mortgage or tenancy agreement, a joint bank account or joint savings, and utility bills in both your names;

and your partner have visited one another's home country and family; and

you have made plans about living together in the UK with your partner.

There are no regulations about your spouse/partner having had to have visited the UK. The guidance states that such a visit may be a factor, not must be a factor, associated with a genuine relationship. To quote :

FAMILY MEMBERS UNDER

APPENDIX FM OF THE IMMIGRATION RULES

Annex FM Section FM 2.0

Genuine and Subsisting Relationship

Factors which may be associated with a genuine and subsisting relationship

3.1(v) The partner and/or applicant have visited the other’s home country and family and are able to provide evidence of this.

[bobrussell]

If you are totally open and honest about your reason for a visa application then it is quite likely to be granted. If you apply for a visit visa it would do no harm to provide information indicating that a settlement visa would likely be granted if applied for. As you are funding/sponsoring the visit this is likely to be part of the application bundle anyway. Your family in the UK are not sponsoring but are providing accommodation, again this needs to be documented anyway.

If you do this make sure you make it clear that you know the settlement visa cannot be applied for in the UK!

A partner does not need to have visited the other's home country. This may help document your relationship but many settlement visas are granted without the applicant visiting the UK.

I doubt there will be any problems with a visit visa application. Don't go for the settlement one unless you are actually going to settle in the UK!! It sounds as if the choice is down to you!

[Somtamme]

I too wish you and your partner all the very best on this journey. As mentioned already, for the initial application for entry clearance and further leave to remain if you're not working in the UK at the point of application you as UK sponsor must have minimum of 2.5 times the minimum salary (£18,600) plus £16,000 or total in excess of £62,500. On return to the UK with your partner for the first two and a half years after being granted leave to remain your partner cannot work nor have recourse to public funds, however for the final two and half years your partner can work.

So, whilst £62,500 can be used as the initial financial criteria, this threshold will significantly reduce over the 5-year probationary period before indefinite leave to remain (ILR) or final settlement can be granted. Any income earnt by either you or your partner in the final 2.5 year period can be used to offset savings and the weighting factor of 2.5 applied to savings gets dropped. This is important because during the probationary period, there will be costs to factor in, such as marriage, living expenses and not least costs for English lessons and costs for the visa applications. Ultimately, I guess you'll not be living with parents indefinitely. You and your partner must also be aware that UKBA salary threshold of £18,600 is likely to increase over the period. Critically for your partner / gf, there is the need to obtain LIFE in UK and English to B1 at the end of the 5-year period. I hope your gf likes the weather in the UK!

[MartinL]

If you decide to go for the Visit Visa first, to give your gf a "taster" of what the UK's like, use the fact that she'll later go for a Settlement Visa as her "Reason to Leave UK".

Say something along the lines of "We hope to apply for a Settlement Visa at a later date and do not want to jeopardise xxxx"s future application by failing to comply with all VV conditions, including leaving the UK at the end of the visit".

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I too wish you and your partner all the very best on this journey. As mentioned already, for the initial application for entry clearance and further leave to remain if you're not working in the UK at the point of application you as UK sponsor must have minimum of 2.5 times the minimum salary (£18,600) plus £16,000 or total in excess of £62,500. On return to the UK with your partner for the first two and a half years after being granted leave to remain your partner cannot work nor have recourse to public funds, however for the final two and half years your partner can work.

So, whilst £62,500 can be used as the initial financial criteria, this threshold will significantly reduce over the 5-year probationary period before indefinite leave to remain (ILR) or final settlement can be granted. Any income earnt by either you or your partner in the final 2.5 year period can be used to offset savings and the weighting factor of 2.5 applied to savings gets dropped. This is important because during the probationary period, there will be costs to factor in, such as marriage, living expenses and not least costs for English lessons and costs for the visa applications. Ultimately, I guess you'll not be living with parents indefinitely. You and your partner must also be aware that UKBA salary threshold of £18,600 is likely to increase over the period. Critically for your partner / gf, there is the need to obtain LIFE in UK and English to B1 at the end of the 5-year period. I hope your gf likes the weather in the UK!

I have highlighted ( bold type) where you are wrong. There is nothing in the immigration rules to say that an applicant cannot work during the first 30 months of arriving in the UK. And his/her income can be taken into account at the Leave to Remain stage. Please try not to give incorrect advice as it can be confusing to potential applicants.

[TCA]

Thanks again for all the replies. The consensus seems to be that for our circumstances, we'd be just as likely to get an unmarried partner visa as a visit visa, in which case we've decided on the settlement visa. My fears are allayed about my girlfriend not having visited the UK before and I'm just about convinced we've got enough to establish a 'genuine and subsisting relationship'. Please feel free to reassure me that some property rental contracts, a couple of internet bills and some photos will suffice!

On return to the UK with your partner for the first two and a half years after being granted leave to remain your partner cannot work nor have recourse to public funds, however for the final two and half years your partner can work.

I have highlighted ( bold type) where you are wrong. There is nothing in the immigration rules to say that an applicant cannot work during the first 30 months of arriving in the UK. And his/her income can be taken into account at the Leave to Remain stage. Please try not to give incorrect advice as it can be confusing to potential applicants.

Thanks for the above. The ability for my partner to work is an important factor in our decision to go for the unmarried partner visa. I've got a few further questions about the visa itself and its entitlements:

1) An unmarried partner visa holder it would seem can be employed or presumably self-employed. Given the financial requirement, benefits obviously cannot be claimed, but if they work and pay tax and national insurance, then I presume ISAs, government and private pensions, NHS treatment, voting etc....are all available to them?

2) If granted, does the 33 months visa duration commence from date of issue or is there a validity period for entry to the UK and the 33 months starts from entry?

3) Evidentiary paperwork - I read that original documents are required. That is not a problem given most of the papers are here in Thailand, but all my UK bank statements go to a UK address. Is it necessary to have these posted to Thailand?

Also if we're giving my parent's address as our initial place to stay, I know my dad has a photocopy of part of the house deeds, so will this suffice? Surely I don't have to get him to go to the bank, retrieve originals and post them?

4) Financial requirement - again re bank statements (I'll be showing savings), I realise 6 months has to be covered and also bank statements must be:

(1) on official bank stationery; or

(2) electronic bank statements from an online account (defined as one that operates solely over the internet and sends bank statements to its customers electronically) which are either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page.

I have a scanned copy of a posted annual statement (original in the UK!) with balances at 5/4/12 (£68k) and another will obviously be sent to my UK address next month (£73k). I also have scanned copies of account opening confirmation docs and access to online statements which show all transactions and up to date balances.

As I'm in Thailand I can't get online statements authenticated as described above, so do I just wait for the annual statement at 5/4/13 or could I go with online statements plus copies of last year's balance and account opening confirmation docs? Also same question re originals or not?

Thanks for any assistance!

Edited March 12, 2013 by TCA

[7by7]

1) Until she has ILR certain public funds will be unavailable to her. These are mainly non contribution based benefits such as income support. If she has paid sufficient contributions then contribution based benefits, such as job seekers allowance and state pension, are available to her. See here for more.

Entering the UK as a resident means that she is eligible for NHS treatment from day one.

Private investments and savings are, of course, available to her.

She cannot vote until and unless she becomes a British citizen. As she needs to have ILR before she can apply then this will be at least 5 years after first entering the UK. See British Citizenship Basics for more.

2) The initial visa will start on the day it is issued and be valid for 33 months. She needs to have been in the UK for 30 months before being eligible to apply for the next stage; so she has up to 3 months from receiving the visa to use it to first enter the UK. In addition, she can ask in her application to have the start date of the visa postponed for up to three months; but if she does this she cannot use it until the requested start date.

3 & 4) Photocopies and computer printouts are easily changed, so they require originals or certified/authenticated copies.

Surely whoever receives your statements in the UK can send them to you, and if you contacted your bank I am sure that they would be willing to authenticate your online statements ( for a fee, probably!).

[TCA]

Thanks very much 7by7. I can get my bank statements sent to Thailand easily enough. My quandry now is whether I wait for my next annual statement at 5/4/13 and supply that with the 5/4/12 statement, or whether I attempt to get online statements authenticated in the UK. No idea if possible or how long that might take. Will enquire. So I can could show the balance at 5/4/13 but is that acceptable without demonstrating a more current balance if I end up applying in say, late April/May?

Also, going back to the evidence of a genuine and subsisting relationship, I found the staff guidelines, see below. I've got nothing like this level of proof and I suppose that's down to the nature of renting property in Thailand, in that utilities often remain in the home owner's name. Excluding the property rental contracts (which we'll hopefully get redone in both names), we've got no more than an internet bill from one property in my name and several internet bills from the current property in my partner's name.

Should I be concerned about this given what's written below, or will my rental contracts and a dozen (or however many) dated photos over the last 3 years overcome this?

SET5.13 What types of evidence might demonstrate living together and a relationship akin to marriage / civil partnership?

The applicant must provide six pieces of correspondence addressed to him / her and their partner at the same address as evidence that they have been living together during the past 2 years. The items of correspondence should be addressed to them jointly or in both their names. If they do not have enough items in their joint names, they may also provide items addressed to each of other individually if they show the same address for both of them. The documents provided must be originals and should be spread over the whole 2 years; they should also be from at least 3 different sources. Examples of what documentation the applicant could provide are listed below:

• Joint commitments, (such as joint bank accounts, investments, rent agreements, mortgage, life insurance policy naming the other partner as beneficiary etc);
• Birth certificates or records of any children of the relationship, showing both partners as parents;
• Any official correspondence linking both partners to the same address, for example Council Tax, utility bills, Doctors records;
• Any other evidence that adequately demonstrates the couple's long-term commitment to each other.

Edited March 12, 2013 by TCA

[theoldgit]

@ TCA

That level of evidence is for those living in The UK, no Council Tax in Thailand.

In my case we have a condo rented in our names and a joint credit card, we have an offshore bank account in joint names registered to our Thai address, these have worked.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Somtamme]

RE; entitlement to work. Previously, entry clearance for a fiancee visa was granted for 6-months and during this period the applicant could not work nor have recourse to public funds. Has this been scrapped, and can settlement now be applied for non-married couples not living in UK?

If I'm wrong I apologise, but I have carefully read the UKBA website and considered the savings formula ((2.5 x £18,600) + £16,000) as meaning in the absence of salaried position at point of application, that there are sufficient savings for the two and half year period, to prove the couple can support themselves? Otherwise, what is the point of 2.5 times the salary?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Point by point:

1. Nothing has changed. For the first 6 months of a fiancee visa, which is in effect a visit visa which leads to settlement, ( or until Further Leave to Remain is granted), the applicant cannot work, etc.

2. If the couple have been living together for 2 years in a relationship akin to a marriage prior to application ( which this couple have) then they can apply for a Spouse/Unmarried Partner visa. This is not new.

3. The income and/or savings formulas apply in order for an applicant to qualify for a visa, and to show that the couple can support themselves in the first 30 months.. At the end of the first 30 months the applicant can apply for a further 30 months, and his/her income and/or savings also can be taken into account to meet the financial requirement. At the end of 60 months the applicant can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain, and there is a different formula to meet the requirement ( and it is, in fact, less demanding).

4. It is not only the sponsor's savings ( as you state) that can be taken into account, but the applicant's too if he/she has any.

5. At the time of application, the applicant's income ( if any) will not be taken into account, nor will the income from any potential employment for the applicant in the UK.

[TCA]

@ TCA

That level of evidence is for those living in The UK, no Council Tax in Thailand.

In my case we have a condo rented in our names and a joint credit card, we have an offshore bank account in joint names registered to our Thai address, these have worked.

OK thanks but that's a couple more things than we can offer up. Going thru our rental contracts today and one of the four (1.5 years of 4 years) has been lost in the last house move. Called the landlady who has now sold the house and wasn't much for helping, then she hung up and wouldn't take the callback. Just great!

I plan to visit in person with something to sign but my evidence documentation doesn't look good from my viewpoint.

Has anyone out there successfully obtained a settlement visa with only sparse rental contracts, a couple of bills and some photos?

I'm now discouraged and thinking tourist visa more attainable.

Edited March 13, 2013 by TCA

[7by7]

Alternatively, marry her. She can then apply as your spouse which means you wont have to provide evidence of living together.

I am against getting married purely to get a visa, but you have been living together for 3.5 years and seem to want to continue in a long term relationship; so why not? (Rhetorical)

[TCA]

Alternatively, marry her. She can then apply as your spouse which means you wont have to provide evidence of living together.

I am against getting married purely to get a visa, but you have been living together for 3.5 years and seem to want to continue in a long term relationship; so why not? (Rhetorical)

I'll not kid you, it has been discussed! With regard to a visa I mean. It's just a bit of paper from the amphur right? What harm can it do? I'm not for getting married just to get a visa (or I'd have done it here) but your mad suggestion has forced me now to look at requirements for a spouse visa......

Somebody please help me before it's too late........

[7by7]

The requirements for a spouse settlement visa are the same as those for an unmarried partner one; except for an unmarried partner visa you need to show that you have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the two years prior to applying, but for a spouse visa you simply need to show that you are married.

I should add that it's not just a bit of paper from the ampur; in the eyes of both Thai and UK law you will be legally married with all that involves.

[TCA]

I should add that it's not just a bit of paper from the ampur; in the eyes of both Thai and UK law you will be legally married with all that involves.

Yeah, don't think I'm up for taking the plunge just yet. Been looking at this stuff for 4 days solid and going a bit cross-eyed. I was initially boosted by comments here for our suitability for the unmarried partner visa (we are exactly that and for nearly double the required length of time) but we appear light on proof. But that's entirely my own feeling.

I'd be encouraged if someone with similar evidentiary documents (or lack of), could post of their success re a settlement visa. Don't really want to lose the best part of 50,000 baht after a 3/4 month wait.

Any of you agent dudes had success in getting clients unmarried partner visas with only a few rental contracts, some photos and a couple of bills?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

If you want to contact us ( contact Paul) for a free chat, and bring along all of the documentation that you have. We will give you a fair assessment of your chances.

[TCA]

If you want to contact us ( contact Paul) for a free chat, and bring along all of the documentation that you have. We will give you a fair assessment of your chances.

Thanks for the very kind offer Paul. I understand you're in Pattaya - I'm currently in Hua Hin, so not quite so easy to drop by. Any chance you can give me a very quick idea of my chances based on my initial post above and with this further info below about my rental docs and photos?

My partner and I have been together since May 2009 and moved in together in September 2009.

Property rentals:

Sep 2009 - Sep 2010: Rental agreement in English, naming me as the tenant, signed by me and the owner's wife with the owner's property agent as witness. The document is the agent's contract. We have a copy of the housebook and owner's (the husband's) Thai i.d. card.

If it helps my case I'll try to contact the owner to sign a bit of paper verifying that we both stayed there.

Sep 2010 - Apr 2012: The rental agreement has gone AWOL and the property owner, who has now sold the house, has not retained any documents relating to the property. Not good.

Best I can do is get another contract signed by us all, naming both me and my partner as tenants and/or just a letter confirming the same. But probably nothing available to confirm that the owner was in fact the owner!

Apr 2012 - Jun 2012: The rental agreement is in both Thai and English, signed by the owner, with my girlfriend named as tenant and me signing as a witness. There is a copy of the owner's housebook (for her own home presumably) but with written confirmation in Thai that our tenanted house was rented. Largely useless I think.

And given the owner was probably one of the nastiest people I've ever had the displeasure of meeting (and seeing as she ripped me off re my deposit), I won't be approaching her in any way. Given the very short lease I don't think this will be an issue.

Jun 2012 - Jun 2013: Rental contract in Thai, signed by the owner, with me as tenant and my girlfriend as witness. We have a copy of the housebook and the owner's Thai i.d. card. Again, we can probably sort an English contract naming both me and my partner as joint tenants.

Other than that we've got multiple internet bills in my name for the first property and the same again for the current property but in my girlfriend's name. Water and electric have always been in the owner's (or a previous owner's) name. As far as official documentation goes, that's about it. For UK accommodation my dad will write a letter of invitation, send copy of title deeds, his passport copy etc....

We have hundreds of photos going back to 2009/2010. My partner's 8 year old daughter has stayed with us for 2 months every year in the school holidays since March 2010, so plenty pictures of us all, including Songkran every year (with different coloured matching shirts), so a timeline is quite visible. The daughter has lived with us for all of the last year but would not be part of this application to settle in the UK, so not sure how much of a story I have to tell about her. We have other photos of a holiday in Krabi in 2011 (still got the electronic flight ticket with both our names on) plus photos of us all during a visit from my mum in November last year.

I'm confident the finance requirement is covered (got £70k in instant access savings and can prove I've had for 6 months) and the English language and TB certificate should take care of themselves.

I can copy all my passport entries to prove I was in the country, which was most of the time, although I returned to the UK in 2011/12 for quite a time for medical treatment. At a rough calculation of time spent over the last 4 years: 75% Thailand, 25% UK.

So that's where I'm at it. If anyone would care to hazard a guess as to my chances, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks in advance.

TCA

[ThaiVisaExpress]

It looks 50/50 to me. The ECO can, and probably will, insist that you prove conclusively that you have lived together for at least two years. It is, of course, easy for him to say that you haven't proved that ( with the documentation that you have), and you would have a right of appeal against the decision if he refuses the application. Are you sure that you don't have anything more ? Your girlfriend's bank statement showing continuous withdrawals from where you live, vehicle/motorcycle registration documents showing your address, joint travel ( tickets and hotel bookings) ?

Your girlfriend could apply for a fiancee visa, which would give her six months in the UK, during which time you must marry. She can then apply to remain for settlement ( it will cost around 5-600 GBP for the extension of stay after 6 months, plus the normal costs of getting Further Leave to Remain and Indefinite Leave to Remain after another 30 months and 60 months). A fiancee visa is a settlement visa, and requires the TB test and A1 English test passes. For a fiancee visa you don't have to have lived together at all.

Letters, etc from other people saying you have lived together or rented together are pretty much worthless on their own, I'm afraid.

[TCA]

Thanks a lot for replying Paul. Not exactly what I wanted to hear but pretty much what I was thinking myself.

For some reason neither of us have ever received bank statements where we live. Possibly moved around too much. We use a Bank of Ayudhya sterling account (transfers from UK) which I draw baht from and there would be plenty of occasions where that money was deposited straight into my girlfriend's regular Bank of Ayudhya account for daily use. Not sure that proves anything though other than I gave her money? Her bank account would show withdrawals from an ATM relatively near our house but again probably inconclusive. I have a regular account too which would show money being sent to her mum over a certain period of time but maybe clutching at straws here. And it would need printouts from the banks given lack of statements.

I own a motorcycle which is registered in my name with the address of our first rental property. I have a 5 year driving licence and the address on that is our second rental property. That in itself might not help (as it's all about me) but perhaps if my girlfriend went and got her licence and registered it to our current address, that might help? Or if I updated my licence and/or the registration?

I do have a joint flight ticket from a holiday in Krabi in Jan/Feb 2011, which names both of us. Hotels however were all booked in my name for 2 people and she's not mentioned. I have another joint flight ticket for flights to Chiang Mai but we never travelled - not sure how they'd prove otherwise as I was in the country at the time....... Plus a joint flight ticket to Phuket that we didn't travel on but I wasn't in Thailand at the time, so that's a non-starter, unless it proves intention.

So a letter from a landlord is worthless (to confirm we both stayed at their property) but what if we managed to get them just to rewrite and backdate the rental contracts with both names on?

Not so keen on the fiancee route - if going that way I'd probably just marry in Thailand - but not overly keen on that either! Would our case be strengthened dramatically if we just got a tourist visa for 6 months then returned to Thailand to apply for an unmarried partner settlement visa?

Really appreciate your help on this.

Edited March 14, 2013 by TCA

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Your case to prove that you have lived together for the past two years is not strengthened by going to the UK for a visit, except that it shows that you have been together during that time. If it goes towards proving two years living together, then yes, it will help. You already have evidence of nearly a year together ( with the current rental agreement ), plus a proposed visit to the UK, will be getting you closer to showing two years.

With respect, I cannot advise you to get backdated rental agreements, as I have no evidence that you actually lived together other than your word. If your landlord(s) issues them , then there is nothing to stop you using them. Be aware, though, that the ECO might check background detail, and any fraud detected could result in a 10 year ban for your girlfriend applying for visas.

[TCA]

Thanks again Paul. I don't have a problem asking my former landlords to backdate rental contracts. There's no subterfuge here as we're only adding the name of someone else who genuinely lived at those addresses. The true facts are not being altered. Whether the owners will co-operate remains to be seen of course.

Assuming I could end up with over 3 years of rental contracts (with both our names on), does this dramatically shift my chances of success from 50/50?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Thanks again Paul. I don't have a problem asking my former landlords to backdate rental contracts. There's no subterfuge here as we're only adding the name of someone else who genuinely lived at those addresses. The true facts are not being altered. Whether the owners will co-operate remains to be seen of course. Assuming I could end up with over 3 years of rental contracts (with both our names on), does this dramatically shift my chances of success from 50/50?

It shifts it, but not necessarily dramatically. The ECO will still expect to see other evidence that you have lived together for two years, and that is sadly lacking ( no offence). You wil need to put it all together and see if, on balance, it is more likely that you did live together than not. That is the test that the ECO will have to use in the absence of evidence.

[TCA]

No offence taken. I really want to evaluate my chances properly before I go throwing 39,000 baht away, so I appreciate your honesty in addition to you taking the time to offer your expertise.

So step 1, I'll see what can be done (if anything) with the rental contracts.

On the banking side, my girlfriend is adamant that 2 banks have 2 different addresses (of ours), yet she's never received a statement and it's only loans and credit cards that get monthly bills sent out. I've no idea. We'll go in tomorrow and see what the banks can print out.

Re the motorbike, I have the green book which ties me to the first house and motor insurance and my licence tying me to the second house. I might get my girlfriend to apply for a licence with our current address. Will only be valid from now but maybe lend a little weight to the argument.

[TCA]

As an aside from my own situation, I spoke to a friend in the UK whose Thai girlfriend has just received her second successful tourist visa.

I asked about documents etc.. (seeing as my bank stuff is in the UK) and he said for both applications he's emailed everything. No original documents sent at all. Are the rules different for tourist visas or is he just a lucky boy? They used an agent if that matters.