Acid Test For Bible Bashers

[FunFon]

I'm currently in Thailand, so my friend who's arriving during the summer break with his family has asked me to research schools. He's got a decent job with expat package, but a fixed allowance for educational expenses, not enough to cover all his spawn going to the top-notch schools like ISB, Patana, NIST, Harrow, Shrewsbury.

Obviously accreditation by one of the recognized agencies (NEASC/CIS/CfBT/WASC) is a reasonable filter, but that still leaves a lot of places to narrow down before I start the more labor-intensive part - actually visiting the schools, contacting teachers and parents on the sly etc.

My friend did express he'd prefer his kids went to school with fellow Christians, but he's vehemently opposed to one that actually lets religion influence the curriculum, other than optional ECAs or religion-specific classes in upper school, particularly wrt issues like evolution and anti-abortion brainwashing.

I've noticed that some of the schools that are run by the Cathoics, or even those created to service specific groups like evangelical Christian missionaries and Adventists are starting to go to the trouble of getting external accreditation, so I'm looking for help from you guys to come up with an "acid test" question for schools that will help me filter out the bible-bashers.

Even if a school is originally created to service specific groups like evangelical Christian missionaries or Adventists, as long as they currently have a mainstream evidence-based approach to their curriculum I don't want to cross them off the list a priori (or would ipso facto be more appropriate?)

I'd appreciate it if answers to this topic would be directly relevant, I'm aware of various schools' general word-of-mouth reputations, but in this case I've been asked to not accept any hearsay but to investigate directly, just looking to cut down on the shoe-leather expenses.

As an example, I could ask something like "what is your science curriculum's stance on the theory of evolution"? but to me that's not quite tight enough. I realize that few schools here teach what we would consider adequately explicit sex education, so I think I won't even touch that can of worms. . .

[GuestHouse]

It might be easier if your 'friend' signed up to TVF and asked his own question.

At least that way we'd get HIS views of what HE wants for HIS children in terms of religion in education while at the same time avoiding YOUR OWN views of what is right for OTHER PEOPLE.

[aTomsLife]

Just wanted to point out that you seem to want to avoid 'Bible Thumpers', not bashers.

[FunFon]

It might be easier if your 'friend' signed up to TVF and asked his own question.

At least that way we'd get HIS views of what HE wants for HIS children in terms of religion in education while at the same time avoiding YOUR OWN views of what is right for OTHER PEOPLE.

Actually he seems to trust me enough to make judgments for him at least at this initial stage, he his actually a good friend so I know where he's coming from, not sure what the quotes are for.

I've already put in a few dozen hours into the project, he's a very busy guy (he makes lots more dosh than I do) so that's why he's asked me to give him a short list of up to five schools for him to check out in person when he comes over.

This particular aspect (dogmatic Christianity getting in the way of a decent curriculum) is just part of the early-stage filtering.

If you don't want to help with any suggestions, that's fine but. . .

[FunFon]

I know it goes against the usual practice here, but I'd really appreciate it if responses are limited to helping me achieve my requested goal. Otherwise just ignore me and I'll go away no worries. . .

Just wanted to point out that you seem to want to avoid 'Bible Thumpers', not bashers.

I'd heard bashers more frequently and both are listed in the Wiki - maybe you're a Yank?

[aTomsLife]

FunFon, on 12 Mar 2013 - 20:33, said:

aTomsLife, on 12 Mar 2013 - 20:27, said:

Just wanted to point out that you seem to want to avoid 'Bible Thumpers', not bashers.

I'd heard bashers more frequently and both are listed in the Wiki - maybe you're a Yank?

Haha, yeah, I might just be a yank. Where I'm from if you're bashing something, you're putting it down, dismissing it as nonsense.

[GuestHouse]

Actually he seems to trust me enough to make judgments for him at least at this initial stage

I make no judgement on how trust worthy you are, you might be the most honest trustworthy man on the planet, the least likely man to thieve or cheat.

But you clearly are carrying a bag of bias on your back when it comes to Christianity in education - If your 'Friend' does indeed want a Christian education for HIS children, I'd suggest that you as a friend of his advise him to search for himself.

You've clearly got a bunch of personal issues that are getting in the way of you giving him any meaningful help.

How was it you put it.... "An Acid Test For Bible Bashers"

To paraphrase Freud - Where you asking a question or making a statement?

[transam]

We even have J. Witness in Ubon , how they get a Visa is beyond me, BUT, it's all here for your pal.

PS. Tell your pal to forget about cash for a bit and join our crowd eh.

[notmyself]

We even have J. Witness in Ubon , how they get a Visa is beyond me, BUT, it's all here for your pal.

PS. Tell your pal to forget about cash for a bit and join our crowd eh.

I thought Thailand threw them out a couple of years back. Excessive proselyting was the reason as I remember.

Could have been the Mormons I guess.

[transam]

We even have J. Witness in Ubon , how they get a Visa is beyond me, BUT, it's all here for your pal.

PS. Tell your pal to forget about cash for a bit and join our crowd eh.

I thought Thailand threw them out a couple of years back. Excessive proselyting was the reason as I remember.

Could have been the Mormons I guess.

I was driving behind them on their bikes today, AGAIN.

[notmyself]

We even have J. Witness in Ubon , how they get a Visa is beyond me, BUT, it's all here for your pal.

PS. Tell your pal to forget about cash for a bit and join our crowd eh.

I thought Thailand threw them out a couple of years back. Excessive proselyting was the reason as I remember.

Could have been the Mormons I guess.

I was driving behind them on their bikes today, AGAIN.

Bull bars could be a viable option.

[canuckamuck]

It should be quite difficult to find a School which describes itself as Christian and at the same time has an entirely non Christian curriculum. I would wonder how they would present themselves to the sponsors. What exactly would be the point of having such a school?

I am also confused by the request to find such a thing. Does he want his kids to be surrounded by hypocrites?

[notmyself]

Essentially a non faith based Christian faith school. Somehow I doubt there is one in Thailand.

[chiangmaikelly]

So does he want a Catholic school like Assumption or not?

[h90]

Note that some Buddhists have also strange ideas about evolution. Actually reject that the humans origin from animals or are actually the same.<br />So it may happen that a christian school that is open minded still has a teacher who teaches what he thinks himself and even if he is no christ....<br />

[FunFon]

OK to clarify, my friend is not a deeply faithful Christian of any variety, and definitely doesn't want his children to be receiving anything related to a "Christian education" as for example an evangelical would want for his family. Being kind to others and other virtues are of course great things, being taught quite adequately at Thai Sikh, Crescent International etc, but other things being equal he'd rather avoid places where the vast majority of students are of a different religion, that's all.

He also expressed this as a very minor factor, way down the list, far below for example the provision of a variety of extra curricular activities, not too much homework for the younger ones, and so on.

I'm sorry if my use of a derogatory term offended some here, I have no hard feelings for believers in whatever way of whatever creed. I'm just trying to make sure his kids don't end up at a place where they're taught "evolution is just a theory, humans actually walked with the dinosaurs" or "abortionists are murderers" sort of stuff.

[chiangmaikelly]

OK to clarify, my friend is not a deeply faithful Christian of any variety, and definitely doesn't want his children to be receiving anything related to a "Christian education" as for example an evangelical would want for his family. Being kind to others and other virtues are of course great things, being taught quite adequately at Thai Sikh, Crescent International etc, but other things being equal he'd rather avoid places where the vast majority of students are of a different religion, that's all.

He also expressed this as a very minor factor, way down the list, far below for example the provision of a variety of extra curricular activities, not too much homework for the younger ones, and so on.

I'm sorry if my use of a derogatory term offended some here, I have no hard feelings for believers in whatever way of whatever creed. I'm just trying to make sure his kids don't end up at a place where they're taught "evolution is just a theory, humans actually walked with the dinosaurs" or "abortionists are murderers" sort of stuff.

How old are the children?

[FunFon]

Sure, Catholics are Christian too.

Once again, I'm not looking for advice on schools here, out of all the posts here so far I think no one's actually attempted to respond to the very specific request in my OP.

-

Essentially a non faith based Christian faith school. Somehow I doubt there is one in Thailand.

I think you'll find that nearly all the many dozens of nominally Catholic schools here will actively go out of their way to reassure the 90% of their customers that are Buddhist, that they don't attempt to convert students to Christianity.

The student population of the Sarasas network of schools alone is probably in the same range as the total Thai Christian population.

[transam]

OK to clarify, my friend is not a deeply faithful Christian of any variety, and definitely doesn't want his children to be receiving anything related to a "Christian education" as for example an evangelical would want for his family. Being kind to others and other virtues are of course great things, being taught quite adequately at Thai Sikh, Crescent International etc, but other things being equal he'd rather avoid places where the vast majority of students are of a different religion, that's all.

He also expressed this as a very minor factor, way down the list, far below for example the provision of a variety of extra curricular activities, not too much homework for the younger ones, and so on.

I'm sorry if my use of a derogatory term offended some here, I have no hard feelings for believers in whatever way of whatever creed. I'm just trying to make sure his kids don't end up at a place where they're taught "evolution is just a theory, humans actually walked with the dinosaurs" or "abortionists are murderers" sort of stuff.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, perhaps he should go to another country, as he will be in for a shock if my family are anything to go by.

[chiangmaikelly]

As the age of the children is an important criteria I would assume that question will go unanswered.

[notmyself]

Essentially a non faith based Christian faith school. Somehow I doubt there is one in Thailand.

I think you'll find that nearly all the many dozens of nominally Catholic schools here will actively go out of their way to reassure the 90% of their customers that are Buddhist, that they don't attempt to convert students to Christianity.

Actions speak louder thean words.

Just ditch the Christian bit and you are left finding the best school within your friend's price range. Much easier.

[FunFon]

As the age of the children is an important criteria I would assume that question will go unanswered.

It certainly would be relevant if I were asking for recommendations on specific schools, or even advice about choosing a school.

Since I'm not, it's actually irrelevant to my question, which hasn't been addressed yet by anyone here.

[chiangmaikelly]

As the age of the children is an important criteria I would assume that question will go unanswered.

It certainly would be relevant if I were asking for recommendations on specific schools, or even advice about choosing a school.

Since I'm not, it's actually irrelevant to my question, which hasn't been addressed yet by anyone here.

Can't come up with the question unless we know what age group you are talking about. Or maybe you should restate the question in a short sentence or two with less editorial.

[philw]

As the age of the children is an important criteria I would assume that question will go unanswered.

It certainly would be relevant if I were asking for recommendations on specific schools, or even advice about choosing a school.

Since I'm not, it's actually irrelevant to my question, which hasn't been addressed yet by anyone here.

"Acid Test For Bible Bashers" is the thread title.

Would acid bath be more appropriate ??

[FunFon]

Or maybe you should restate the question in a short sentence or two with less editorial.

This issue is clear (for us in the negative) when a home page states that the school's curriculum is "taught from a biblical world view". However another school advertising "a caring Christian environment" may simply mean that they put Christ's lessons into practice in their daily life, but refrain from basing their biology class on "intelligent design".

So what I'm looking for here is a concise question or two to ask the principal/registrar/marketing person over the phone or via email, that

A isn't offensive to their beliefs (again, sorry for not taking the same care with the title of my post)

B ideally is a clear question with an objectively verifiable answer, i.e. factual, not subject to interpretation

C reveals whether the school's flavour of Christianity is one of those that favours its religious dogma over scientific evidence.

Now if anyone wants to claim that we're being bigots here for not being "open minded" about creationism, well fair enough, if that's being bigoted then I'm a bigot.

[notmyself]

You would be hard pressed to find a school that DOES teach creationism and or ID.

I guess a simple non offensive question would be... Is the curriculum fact based or faith based. Biggest issue is the method of education rather than what is being taught because a lot of it is taught by rote.

[GuestHouse]

So off the pot FunFon, quit messing around and confess your problems with Christianity.... it would be so much more 'rational' to do so..... all this 'on behalf of my friend' nonsense requires a certain level of belief and suspension of critical thought.... which I'm guessing you will agree is not a good thing.

[rgs2001uk]

So off the pot FunFon, quit messing around and confess your problems with Christianity.... it would be so much more 'rational' to do so..... all this 'on behalf of my friend' nonsense requires a certain level of belief and suspension of critical thought.... which I'm guessing you will agree is not a good thing.

Well if thats the case, an international school would be a better choice than a "flat earther" or a Thai school, opposite sides of the same coin.

Does your friend wish his child to be pumping out hubcaps on the production line of a Toyota factory, or does he wish his child to be a manager of the factory?

No problems with Christianity, my problems begin with the Christians who come to my door here in Bkk and start spouting off about things that are nothing to do with Christ or Christianity, in fact these things cant be found in the King James X1 bible.

[rene123]

I think the most simple question would be... What are the best schools for western children of these (?) ages? And leave it at that. Parents can teach their children what is really important, namely... the INTEREST in learning. Children are like sponges and will pick up whatever is around them if given half a chance. If you make life interesting enough you can't STOP children from learning. It doesn't matter the culture or the religion. Children should learn a bit about all the religions and let them make up their minds what is best for themselves. The most important thing a parent can teach their child is to be independent and self reliant. After that they can't be swayed by nonsense pushed at them by anyone. Anyone who passes on the process of learning to a teacher is doing their child a disfavour. The process of learning should be taught by the parents. The school teachers just fine tune it and provide guidelines.

If I was the OP I would just check with all the schools and ask for references from previous parents whose children graduated. It shouldn't be that difficult to get a list of all schools suitable for farang children in Chiang Mai. Children pick up languages far quicker than adults and that should not be a problem.

[rgs2001uk]

I think the most simple question would be... What are the best schools for western children of these (?) ages? And leave it at that. Parents can teach their children what is really important, namely... the INTEREST in learning. Children are like sponges and will pick up whatever is around them if given half a chance. If you make life interesting enough you can't STOP children from learning. It doesn't matter the culture or the religion. Children should learn a bit about all the religions and let them make up their minds what is best for themselves. The most important thing a parent can teach their child is to be independent and self reliant. After that they can't be swayed by nonsense pushed at them by anyone. Anyone who passes on the process of learning to a teacher is doing their child a disfavour. The process of learning should be taught by the parents. The school teachers just fine tune it and provide guidelines.

If I was the OP I would just check with all the schools and ask for references from previous parents whose children graduated. It shouldn't be that difficult to get a list of all schools suitable for farang children in Chiang Mai. Children pick up languages far quicker than adults and that should not be a problem.

It doesn't matter the culture or the religion.

Really?

Perhaps you best have a talk with the Jesuits, give me the child I will give you the man etc etc , by the time you get the child/man back the damage may already have been done.

have a read on how even the pope suppressed the Society of Jesus,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_the_Society_of_Jesus