Thai Passport For Dual Us/thai Citizen

[SpokaneAl]

The more research I do, the more confused I become.

We just returned from a four month stay in Thailand and plan to return each year as snowbirds. Next year we plan on staying between five and six months. My wife, who was born in Thailand, and I, both traveled on US passports with 90 tourist visas using the visit family option. At the end of the 90 point, I applied for, and obtained an extension to cover my remaining time in Thailand.

My wife did not apply for an extension. She did obtain her Thai ID card and Thai passport, which we had thought would take care of her situation.

Upon attempting to leave Thailand, airport officials informed us that she had overstayed her visa and as a result, via the 500 baht a day fine, must pay 15,000 baht in order to leave the country. The officials were very sympathetic and friendly, but were also firm on our requirement to pay the fine. We payed it.

In that we plan on returning each year for a number of months, I discussed the best way to handle things next year.

The airport passport officials informed us that she needed to leave the US and travel completely on a Thai passport. This confused me because I am not sure if one can leave the US on a foreign passport without providing some kind of entry date/data. I also question their expertise on entry/departure procedures concerning a county other than Thailand (the US).

While we were in Thailand I emailed the US Embassy with the following question -

Dear consulate professional,

Both my wife and I are American citizens. My wife is also a Thai citizen. We have decided to become snowbirds and are living in Thailand for this winter. We both traveled and are staying in Thailand via our American passports and have both obtained non immigrant Type O visas.

While here, after many years away, my wife is in the process of obtaining her Thai ID card, to be followed by a Thai passport.

My question concerns future visits to Thailand. While I will continue to obtain the necessary visas, can my wife, who is a dual Thai/American citizen, leave the US via an American passport, and enter Thailand on her Thai passport. Then when she returns to the US, enter the US on her American passport? This would save us some visa issues (and some money as well). I would be concerned about how US immigration would feel about her leaving the US on an American passport, and then, several months later, returning with no entries in her American passport.

Here is their response -

We have not heard of dual nationals experiencing any problems. If questioned by American authorities your wife could always show the stamps in her Thai passport.

I was troubled by the fact that my wife, as a Thai citizen, was fined 15,000 baht and upon our return to the US called the Thai Embassy in Los Angeles. During discussions I questioned the official to help ensure that we would not have problems when we return to Thailand again in the fall. He was very adamant in stating that she must, must, must travel on a US passport and enter Thailand on that passport, via a visa. She could not switch passports to enter Thailand on her Thai passport.

Of course this troubled and confused me, because now I wonder what we bothered to obtain a Thai passport for her. In addition, in that I do not like the idea of applying for an extension after the 90 days (what would I do if the request was disapproved?) I had planned on obtaining a Retirement visa for myself.

Can you help me here?

Thank you.

[Mrjlh]

The experts here will be able to help you better but I think the answer you will get from several of the experts here will be this.

She enters Thailand on her Thai passport but also shows her US passport so they can make a note of it. Same when she leaves, she leaves on her Thai passport showing her US passport. When she enters the US she uses her US passport showing the Thai passport. They will makes notes or stamps in both passports. I don't think she needs an entry card. This is because she holds Dual Citizenship which is recognized by both countries.

[Maestro]

SpokaneAl, your wife chose to travel to Thailand with her US passport and for this reason she was subject to the immigration rules applicable for US persons. You say your wife was born in Thailand, presumably as a Thai national, and the correct thing for her to do would have been to obtain her Thai passport before her first departure from Thailand and from that point forward always use her Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand and use her US passport to enter and leave the USA.

Your wife is now in the USA, I understand, with her new and so far unused Thai passport. She can start the correct procedure on her next trip to Thailand: leave the USA with the US passport, enter and leave Thailand with the Thai passport, enter the USA with her US passport. On her arrival in Thailand with her new Thai passport, the immigration officer will most likely question her why she has no Thai departure stamp in it and she should explain that it is her first time to use this passport and that she wants to enter Thailand with it. If the officer refuses, she must ask to speak to a more senior officer, up the ladder until she arrives at one who knows the rules and will approve it. Under no circumstances should she accept any suggestion from immigration to enter Thailand again on her US passport and insist on her legal right to enter Thailand on her Thai passport.

[samran]

Your wife on her last stay entered on her US passport, and as such was subject to Thai immigration rules.

Next time she comes she should enter and depart on her Thai passport which will allow her to stay in Thailand with no restriction.

The US does not check people when exiting the country, so there is never an exit stamp from the US.

Upon entering Thailand she should just head straight for the electronic passport gates, or if not available, an immigration officer will stamp her in.

I suspect you spoke to an officer who had no idea what they were talking about and just made it up as she went along.

[samran]

Ps. I forgot to mention, it is becoming increasingly rarer, but occasionally you may get a Thai immigration officer ask where are the stamps she left Thailand on. Just be honest and say that she left Thailand as a child and this is her first entry to Thailand since then, and you don't have the original Thai passport.

If that immigration officer becomes recalcitrant, simply ask to speak to a superior who will over ride the junior officer, given that Thai citizens can't be denied entry to their own country.

[doji]

She will be seen as an American if she enters Thailand on the US passport…PERIOD.

Therefore she will be treated as a tourist and with all applicable laws that come with it. And it doesn't matter if her thai family has been here in the last 2000 yrs!

Next time when she goes to Thailand again

1) Buy the airplane ticket – with the same name as her US passport

2) Hand her US passport, ticket, driver licence to the TSA officer, when going through the security check

3) Exit USA with the US passport

4) Fill out the arrival card “for the thai national”, just before she lands at BKK airport

5) At the BKKimmigration counter – give the officer …her thai passport and the arrival card

6) The officer will staple her arrival card w/ her thai passport and stamp her thai passport

…now she can stay in Thailand as long as she desire!

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When leaving Thailand

1) At the airport – fill out the “for thai national” exit card

2) Give the immigration officer….her thai passport and the exit card

3) The officer will staple the exit card w/her thai passport and stamp her out

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Upon entering the US

Hand the US immigration officer…..her US passport, along with the “for US national” arrival card

I think in your case, the US rules will be … “for US national” - 1 arrival card per family

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FYI She doesn’t need any special visa to visit her own country(Thailand), but you(husband) will have to.

Hope this helps

Edited March 16, 2013 by doji

[SpokaneAl]

What an impressive group!

Thank you so very much for your insight and advice.

[TerryLH]

The one thing not mentioned above is regarding checking in here to return to the US.

Your wife will probably be questioned by the airlines regarding no visa in her Thai passport. She just shows them her USA PP, which allows her to enter the US without a visa.

Terry

[paulfr]

I am puzzled because I thought only the US recognizes dual citizenship.

In Thailand once one turns 18 they are required to declare themselves as

either a Thai citizen or a US/UK/NZ/OZ citizen.

Since so many have replied without mentioning this,

am I wrong about this ??

Does Thailand allow dual citizenship ?

If so, did this become new policy recently ?

Thanks

[lopburi3]

At age 20 a Thai can make a choice to renounce there Thai citizenship but that is an option and not a requirement (and almost never done). There is no law that specifically allows dual citizenship, just as there is none in the USA you cite, but there is no law to prevent it so it is a fact of life. There used to be laws to prevent keeping Thai citizenship but those are long gone.

[Maestro]

...Does Thailand allow dual citizenship ?

If so, did this become new policy recently ?

...

Thailand's Nationality Act says the following about a Thai national who acquires the nationality of the foreign spouse:

Section 13. A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of the spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of his or her intention before an official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

[samran]

I am puzzled because I thought only the US recognizes dual citizenship.

In Thailand once one turns 18 they are required to declare themselves as

either a Thai citizen or a US/UK/NZ/OZ citizen.

Since so many have replied without mentioning this,

am I wrong about this ??

Does Thailand allow dual citizenship ?

If so, did this become new policy recently ?

Thanks

Um, if you call 1992 recently, then yeah, recently.

[JimGant]

A recent thread showed that there still can be immigration officers who, when they find you're a dual citizen, will insist that you enter on your US passport. In such a situation, as has been suggested, this is when you ask to speak to higher authority.

We'd heard such stories years ago, before the wife first entered Thailand on her brand new Thai passport. Fortunately the immigration officer had no problem with her explanation of why no exit stamp, and promptly stamped her Thai passport. However, as a precaution, I had her US passport with me -- just in case the officer asked to see it. (Better for her to say, "My husband has it" rather than "No, you can't see it." And certainly better than handing it to the officer, as asked, then getting stamped in on it.)

[ubonjoe]

The most important thing when entering (same on departure) Thailand on your Thai passport is never ever show immigration your other passport. That is where a lot of people have had problems. Hide that other passport.

Only show other passport when departing to airline at check in desk to show you can travel to your 2nd home country and then put it away until you arrive home or your destination. Also show Thai passport to prove your have been here legally.

[nicand66]

Thanks for all the insights on this topic.

One follow up question: If the name on the US passport (married name) is different from the Thai passport (maiden name) and the airline ticket has the US passport name on it, wouldn't the Thai immigration question that when the Thai passport is used to enter/depart Thailand?

[lopburi3]

Thai immigration is only interested in a home country national having a valid Thai passport if that is what they are using for entry..

[Arkady]

There are other threads in TV about Thai nationals entering Thailand on foreign passports and being fined for overstaying in the mistaken belief that, as Thai nationals, they were immune to overstay fines. If you chose to enter Thailand on a foreign passport Immigration is obliged to treat you as a foreigner. How could they do otherwise? Even people who arrived on a foreign passport and tried to leave on a brand new Thai passport have been caught and fined. They need to close out the entry on a foreign passport. In any case, she could have gone to an Immigration office before the 90 day visa expired and got a 1 year extension free of charge on production of a Thai ID card.

The advice given by the staffer at the Thai consulate in LA is inconsistent with the advice provided on the Thai Foreign Ministry's website that clearly advises in a FAQ section dual nationals living abroad to leave their country of residence on their foreign passports and enter Thailand on their Thai passports. Unfortunately it is not at all unusual for Thai civil servants to prefer to invent their own rules and regulations on the spot without ever bothering to read the manuals and regulations of their own departments and ministeries.

Unfortunately it is not always possible to avoid showing a Thai immigration officer another passport. If they ask for evidence that you can travel to the US with a Thai passport without a US visa in it, for example, you will have to show your US passport to get past them.

Tip: use the automatic gates for Thai passport holders at Swampy and avoid any scrutiny by an Immigration officer. I know this means using the economy queue, even if you are traveling first or business but the queues for the automatic gates are not too bad.

In the worst case, there is nothing clear in the Nationality Act that provides for revocation of the Thai nationality of some one who is Thai from birth. Even though many jealous immigration and interior officials may wish otherwise, the lawmakers have never legislated for that, probably due to the numbers of influential Thais who do not want their own or their children's dual or plural nationality status to be compromised.

[gstallones]

I have a question regarding my Thai wife's passports. Her Thai passport is in her maiden name and her US passport is in her married name. I understand that if wishing to enter Thailand on her Thai passport to avoid visa requirements, it is advisable to book the airline tickets using her Thai passport. What problems would this create when reentering US on US passport with boarding pass in her maiden name?

[ubonjoe]

She can use either name. She will be showing both passports to the airline leaving the US and Thailand.

They don't ask for a boarding pass on entry.

If possible it would be good to get her a new passport while she here so that both passports have the correct name. It would mean going to an Amphoe to get her name changed on her ID card so that her new passport could issued in the correct name.