Chiang Mai: Another Side Of A Sexual Assault Story

[webfact]

Another Side of A Sexual Assault Story
BY SIPPACHAI KUNNUWONG


19-year-old Danish suspects were taken to the police custody after a Dutch tourist reported that they have gang-raped her in a guesthouse in Chiangmai, Thailand. Photo: Pattaya Daily News

CHIANG MAI: -- “We are pretty sure that there was not a third party involved in the rape. I don’t know where that claims came from,” says Ramrada Wongnarongphon or Pingpong, a staff at a guesthouse in Chiang Mai where a recent ‘gang rape’ case allegedly occurred.

She is referring to another suspect whom a Dutch tourist claimed to have ‘gang raped’ her together with two Danish nationals.

On February 25, 19-year-old Kasper Pederson and Thomas Jensen from Denmark arrived at a famed guesthouse – preferably to keep its name anonymous – in Rajchiangsan district, an area known as bag packers’ heaven in Chiang Mai, the North of Thailand.

The two Danes who flew from Bangkok checked in with Ramrada at 5 p.m. “I always remember the guests who checked in with me,” she recalls. “After that, at 6 p.m they had a group meeting with our staff (about a trekking trip they were scheduled to take the next day). They then asked me where to go for drinks in town for the night. So I suggested one bar at a westerners’ nightlife hub near Boonyu Market.”

That was Ramrada’s first encounter with the two Danes – remembering one of them as “very good looking” – before her work shift ended at dawn, long before an incident that has put the two tourists on Thai public bad light stormed out.

“The next day, the police came to ask us whether we have two guys named Kasper and Thomas staying here. We said, ‘Yes but they went on a trip,’” she says. “So the officials went to the rafting and took them into custody.”

The two Danes were charged of gang raping a Holland girl in early morning on February 26.

The Allegations

According to the police report, the 23-year-old Dutch had come to visit Chiang Mai alone for several days. She told the police that on the night of February 25, she went to a bar, and while she was drinking there, at about 11 p.m. she met a Danish man, and began talking to him. Later they both went to his room 302 on the 3rd floor, in Rajchiangsaan district.

When they reached his room, his two Danish friends were already there. Then the three men allegedly subdued and raped her, until each man had reached orgasm, without her consent. She could not fight against the three men, and then she passed out. When she woke up in the morning, the three men had gone. So she went out to notify to the police and also inform the embassy.

Truth or Fiction?

But the accounts provided by the guesthouse’ security cameras and its staff tell otherwise. “We saw (on the cameras) that around midnight Thomas and the victim walked into the compound. About an hour later, the victim came down while talking on the phone. She then fell down in front of our front door,” says Ramrada, pointing to the contradiction of the victim’s testament that she woke up alone in the room in the morning.

“After she collapsed she even told our guy who worked here at night to send her home.”

Ramrada says the security camera also confirmed that there’s another lady in the room. “Kasper brought a Chinese lady to the room before Thomas and the victim came in. After the victim left, it showed Kasper walking the Chinese lady back to her place in town.” But that very fact was not mentioned in the victim’s report to the police and the unidentified lady had traveled back to her country soon after the incident.

One fact that is also perplexing to Ramada and the staff is the existence of the other suspect. “We haven’t seen the picture of the other man involved. It is their first time in Chiang Mai and even though we had other Danish male tourists at the time, it is very unlikely that they are involved in this,” she says.

“I’m trying to be neutral here. Because I’m also a woman. But our staff can guarantee that the suspect and victim were walking into our compound in consent.”

Trapped in the city for months to come

“On Feb 28, the two Danes were released on bail by a coordinator from the Danish Consulate in Thailand,” says Pol. Lt. Col. Saipin Tijjarat, the detective officer who heads the investigation of this case. The bail was made at the police station. According to the Thai criminal law, the bail money for the gang rape case is 350,000 baht per suspect.

After getting bailed out, the suspects attended a ‘criminal investigation prior to prosecution’ at the Chiang Mai court. “They were testified before the judge, victim, one witness – assumed to be the victim’s friend, a lawyer and a translator. The investigation was requested by the victim as she was expected to leave the country soon after the incident,” a source who works at the Court says.

“However, according to the law, they are not permitted to travel outside Chiang Mai and their passports had to be kept at the police station,” says Pol. Lt. Col. Saipin. “Either the suspects or the guarantor have to present themselves to the police in every 12 days or so.” The latest meeting was taken place in March 12.

Pol. Lt. Col Saipin says that further details on the cases cannot be disclosed to the public and the police are now collecting witnesses and preparing the evidence to be sent to the public prosecutor. “The process could take up to 6 months. However, we are trying to finish the investigation in two months,” the policewoman says.

That amount of time does not include the court hearing and its other processes that could as well take up to another 6 months. “Basically, it means that the two will be trapped in Chiang Mai for many months to come,” says Trongyos Taywadej, a local lawyer.

Will they escape?

The detective officer stated that the two suspects are not keen to talk to the press due to the tendency of stress they are facing. After the arrest the Danes were portrayed heavily by the Thai media as criminals.

“We (investigative team) don’t know their whereabouts, nor had their contacts. But they contact us regularly to inform that they are in still Chiang Mai,” Pol. Lt. Col. Saipin says.

When asked whether she feared the possibility of them escaping the country, the official said: “It is difficult for them to flee the country because they are now recognizable. The Thai TVs run their story with a huge public attention.”

With additional reports by Anders Holm Nielsen

Source: http://scandasia.com/another-side-of-a-gang-rape-story/

-- ScandAsia 2013-03-16

[PoodMaiDai]

I could not point them out in a line up of four white men. No idea what they look like even after seeing their images a few times.

[TommoPhysicist]

So they have to stay in Thailand for 6 months and their accuser doesn't.

Even though the video evidence is completely at odds with the accusers story.

She claims 3 men, video shows 2

She claims alone, video shows another girl there.

She says leaves in the morning, video shows her leaving after 1 hour.

Seems a bit unfair to me.

Edited March 16, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[A Member]

The story mentions an unidentified Chinese lady who has since left the country. If she is unidentified how is it known she went anywhere ?

[JeremyBowskill]

From this side of the article it looks like, cloggie goes out and gets wasted, wakes up in the morning and has no real idea what has happened.

From her side totally different, but then IF and it is IF you were drugged and boozed up you would be a little hazey on the details MAYBE.....

[yummypizza]

She also claims drunk and passed out, so anything could have or could not have happened, if there is camera footage,then that can be the only evidence, unless some one crawled in from a back window!..let's wait and see how it pans out.

[noitom]

The writing quality in this story is child like.

[USNret]

You have all missed the most significant part of this report -- a security camera in Thailand that actually works! I guess it's because no Thai were involved as either perp or victim.

[jamhar]

I've been drunk to a point where i could not remember what happened after a certain point, walking home ect. Shocking i know! lol, and early 20's was about the age for that sort of thing.

Physical evidence should be able to help shed some light (tissue damage, tearing, ect)

If theres no physical evidence, this is not going to go well for the girl.

Worse for the guys if they are innocent.

But i find it hard to understand why she would make such a claim if she wasn't raped.

And why she went back to his room, if it wasn't for sex.

This entire case is a puzzle.

Edited March 16, 2013 by jamhar

[Fozfromoz]

This story has more holes in it than a second hand dartboard.

I guess they can string it out long enough so at least they can get some overstay revenue when finally sorted.

[Locationthailand]

Seems to me this is a frivolous time wasting account of events and she has left a huge mess for the locals to sort out. It also sounds to me like a bit of loose sex was her motive (as happens here) especially after a few too many drinks, and now the Danes are the victims. If I were the police I would let this die a natural death, keep a bit of the bail money (of course) and let these guys return home.

[seminomadic]

I've been drunk to a point where i could not remember what happened after a certain point, walking home ect. Shocking i know! lol, and early 20's was about the age for that sort of thing.

Physical evidence should be able to help shed some light (tissue damage, tearing, ect)

If theres no physical evidence, this is not going to go well for the girl.

Worse for the guys if they are innocent.

But i find it hard to understand why she would make such a claim if she wasn't raped.

And why she went back to his room, if it wasn't for sex.

This entire case is a puzzle.

Many things could explain why (IF she was not raped in fact).... cognitive dissonance, she's a sociopath, they parted on not-so-good terms & she's got a mean streak, she was given or took drugs that gave her the delusion she was forced into sex... among many other possibilities

Edited March 16, 2013 by seminomadic

[JetsetBkk]

Note to self: stay away from drunk Dutch women.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

seems a dodgy story all around

Edited March 16, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Hecate]

"And why she went back to his room, if it wasn't for sex?"

Believe it or not, some young women don't realize that men think this way.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Hard to say what really happened, and hopefully justice will prevail.

However if it turns out to be a false rape accusation, IMHO it is time that those who falsely lay rape accusations get the same time in the slammer as rapists.

[IMA_FARANG]

Alchohol does strange things.

It's easy for two or three young and sex obsessed males and females that have been drinking heavily to get the sexual language wrong.

She have meant one thing with her drunken flirting, the guys may have interpreted that as something else.

Hard to tell what they all really meant, but their signals (both the guys and the girl or girls) had different meanings to them and alchohol was the cause of the misunderstanding in the signals.

I had a Swedish friend who many years ago went to a wedding reception with his girlfriend and woke up in the morning with the bride, the groom, his (my friend's) girlfriend and his girlfriend's sister all in the same bed naked.

As he told me, at that point it was just better to say nothing, and just get dressed and leave as quickly as possible.

He claims he doesn't remember what happened or how he got there.

[seajae]

hang on, if she claims that 3 guys left their dna inside her then it would be very easy for the police to confirm her story, surely they did a rape kit after she informed them or did she shower and remove any evidence. Is it even possible to hold them or even charge them without anything but her say so, surely they have to have some kind of evidence before they can charge them and if the tapes show that she has lied then they have to have some other hard evidence or these guys should be able to walk. Something in all this is definitely on the nose

[cheeryble]

Seems to me that unless she was very violently treated.....which should be obvious on inspection......she was still drunk or doped up enough to fall over in the morning. This means she should be treated seriously.....but with strong reservations.

That was Ramrada’s first encounter with the two Danes – remembering one of them as “very good looking”

So what does that do for the other guy's self esteem?

Edited March 16, 2013 by cheeryble

[super22k]

The whole thing should be dismissed and forgotten about. Why waste time on a pack of lies and drunken fairytales?The whole thing is meaningless. Never forget,"It takes two to tango".

[DocN]

Can anyone please try to explain to me some things, f.e. why she would make up a rape- story in the first place?

Why include 3 men? Isn't one enough? The whole thing makes no sense!

[chickenslegs]

“We (investigative team) don’t know their whereabouts, nor had their
contacts. But they contact us regularly to inform that they are in still
Chiang Mai,” Pol. Lt. Col. Saipin says.

I am not a rapist or a criminal of any kind but I am obliged to inform Immigration of my whereabouts at all times. Even when my place of residence has not changed I still have to report to Immigration every 90 days.

[joboss]

I've been drunk to a point where i could not remember what happened after a certain point, walking home ect. Shocking i know! lol, and early 20's was about the age for that sort of thing.

Physical evidence should be able to help shed some light (tissue damage, tearing, ect)

If theres no physical evidence, this is not going to go well for the girl.

Worse for the guys if they are innocent.

But i find it hard to understand why she would make such a claim if she wasn't raped.

And why she went back to his room, if it wasn't for sex.

This entire case is a puzzle.

Many things could explain why (IF she was not raped in fact).... cognitive dissonance, she's a sociopath, they parted on not-so-good terms & she's got a mean streak, she was given or took drugs that gave her the delusion she was forced into sex... among many other possibilities

One of the possibilities... she just wants to be centre stage. maybe the Chinese girl upstaged her and the boys lost interest... that pissed her off.

[Marlow999]

The story mentions an unidentified Chinese lady who has since left the country. If she is unidentified how is it known she went anywhere ?

She was probably unidentified for the purpose of anonymity for the report, not because nobody knew who she was. I'm sure the guesthouse and the police know her identity

[Marlow999]

Seems to me this is a frivolous time wasting account of events and she has left a huge mess for the locals to sort out. It also sounds to me like a bit of loose sex was her motive (as happens here) especially after a few too many drinks, and now the Danes are the victims. If I were the police I would let this die a natural death, keep a bit of the bail money (of course) and let these guys return home.

For once I agree with you 100%.

[tragickingdom]

According Thai law the bail money is 350.000 THB? Is there a law that allows people to make this amounts up? It is complete nonsense. The court sets bail, that could be as low as 50,000 THB what happens very often with Thai suspects of underage rape cases. In the case of the rape, imprisonment and torture of the Karen girl last month the bail was just a fraction of the 350K.

Don;t believe anyone in Thailand claiming to know the law, nor the police nor any lawyer have a clue about the law. The law in Thailand means having power to negotiate.

[Marlow999]

Alchohol does strange things.

It's easy for two or three young and sex obsessed males and females that have been drinking heavily to get the sexual language wrong.

She have meant one thing with her drunken flirting, the guys may have interpreted that as something else.

Hard to tell what they all really meant, but their signals (both the guys and the girl or girls) had different meanings to them and alchohol was the cause of the misunderstanding in the signals.

I had a Swedish friend who many years ago went to a wedding reception with his girlfriend and woke up in the morning with the bride, the groom, his (my friend's) girlfriend and his girlfriend's sister all in the same bed naked.

As he told me, at that point it was just better to say nothing, and just get dressed and leave as quickly as possible.

He claims he doesn't remember what happened or how he got there.

Now this has the makings of a much more interesting story than the Danish/Dutch nonsense!

[TommoPhysicist]

But i find it hard to understand why she would make such a claim if she wasn't raped.

And why she went back to his room, if it wasn't for sex.

This entire case is a puzzle.

False accusations of rape and assault are common in the western world.

I don't know why, but appears to be becoming common in Thailand too.

Some problem with western society in general but hard to imagine why any woman would do it.

[rollrunna]

Alchohol does strange things.

It's easy for two or three young and sex obsessed males and females that have been drinking heavily to get the sexual language wrong.

She have meant one thing with her drunken flirting, the guys may have interpreted that as something else.

Hard to tell what they all really meant, but their signals (both the guys and the girl or girls) had different meanings to them and alchohol was the cause of the misunderstanding in the signals.

I had a Swedish friend who many years ago went to a wedding reception with his girlfriend and woke up in the morning with the bride, the groom, his (my friend's) girlfriend and his girlfriend's sister all in the same bed naked.

As he told me, at that point it was just better to say nothing, and just get dressed and leave as quickly as possible.

He claims he doesn't remember what happened or how he got there.

dont you just love those weddings.. ? been there, done it and yes loss of memory a bit of a prob but waiting for the next invite.......

[JetsetBkk]

"And why she went back to his room, if it wasn't for sex?"

Believe it or not, some young women don't realize that men think this way.

Not.