Question Regarding Who Pays For New Aircon Unit In Rented Property

[hotandhumid]

I thought I would seek the advise of the wise folk of tv regarding my situation.

I have been renting a 3 bed house here for almost 1 year already and the owner wants a decision soon if we are going to stay on (contract ends 1st May) My problem is in the living room which is quite large there is only 1 aircon unit which is very small (suitable for a bedroom) and it is also at the opposite end of the room to where to where we sit and watch tv etc. The problem of course is that we get virtually no cool air down that end of the room or have to wait for hours before we can get any benefit. And with the hot season upon us this needs to be sorted as I'm not putting up with it for another year (if we stay on)

I told this to the owner (a farang) and whilst he acknowledges the problem he is insisting that I have to pay half towards the new unit, I think the price is around 35k for a large unit. Is this reasonable? Personally I think he should fork out and buy it himself, bearing in mind my rent is 28k a month so over 2 years he will have gained Bt672,000 out of me. I don't see it as fair as I may only benefit from it for a year and then he has it for life, at the same time if he stands his ground do I bite my nose off to spite my face and go to all the hassle of moving again (there are 4 of us) or do I just bite the bullet and pay the money? One option I'm not entertaining is to leave the situation how it is, it's just too damn hot!

Cheers,

H&H

[Spaniel]

I would say the owner of the apartment/condo should pay for the new a/c unit.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

if the renter pays for the unit then either the owner needs to lower the rent or when the renter leaves then they can take the unit with them.

[lomatopo]

I do not believe there are any laws requiring a landlord to offer air-conditioners here, and a tenant is free to choose to enter into a rental agreement based on the existing state of the property.

I think splitting the cost of a new, larger AC unit is a recipe for disaster. Either the landlord should purchase the new AC unit, perhaps in hopes of retaining you as a desirable and reliable tenant, or you should buy the new AC unit with the understanding that it is yours to take, or sell at the end of the contract. It seems weird that the landlord would risk losing you as a tenant over this issue. Personally I would insist that the landlord install the newer unit prior to extending the existing lease, understanding that I might have to re-locate.

[cheeryble]

Strictly speaking although you consider the rent high the fact is you rented the place as seen.

Perhaps I can be more helpful than that!

1. Buy a fan or two. This will not only draw the cool air down the house very quickly, it will also have an extra cooling effect blowing it at you.

2. Air cons can be bought much cheaper than supermarket prices. I get my air guy to buy at the wholesaler and fit. Last time I bought a large bedroom Daikin for I think 14k plus fitting, it had been in Homepro for about 25k fitted.

3. As for buying tthe aircon i just saw the last post with which I agree and have edited my answer out.

Edited March 17, 2013 by cheeryble

[hotandhumid]

if the renter pays for the unit then either the owner needs to lower the rent or when the renter leaves then they can take the unit with them.

What about if I take half the unit with me?

[doji]

I'm a landlord for 2 condos.

If the aircon is still in working condition as when you move in, even tho you may not like its performance. If you want it a bit better performance, you (tenant) has to pay to replace it. But when you move out, you have the right to take it with you.

But if it's breaking down and you can prove it "in its performance over the year", then the owner has to fix or replace it w/ his own expense.

If he's not reasonable or doesn't have a basic common sense, there is no need to talk further with him. JUST MOVE ON

Why you have to put up with thing you don't like, when paying that much in rent?

Edited March 17, 2013 by doji

[hotandhumid]

Strictly speaking although you consider the rent high the fact is you rented the place as seen. Perhaps I can be more helpful than that! 1. Buy a fan or two. This will not only draw the cool air down the house very quickly, it will also have an extra cooling effect blowing it at you. 2. Air cons can be bought much cheaper than supermarket prices. I get my air guy to buy at the wholesaler and fit. Last time I bought a large bedroom Daikin for I think 14k plus fitting, it had been in Homepro for about 25k fitted. 3. As for buying tthe aircon i just saw the last post with which I agree and have edited my answer out.

Buy a fan or 2?? Well thanks, I really hadn't thought of that!

[hotandhumid]

I'm a landlord for 2 condos.

If the aircon is still in working condition as when you move in, even tho you may not like its performance. If you want it a bit better performance, you (tenant) has to pay to replace it. But when you move out, you have the right to take it with you.

But if it's breaking down and you can prove it "in its performance over the year", then the owner has to fix or replace it w/ his own expense.

If he's not reasonable or doesn't have a basic common sense, there is no need to talk further with him. JUST MOVE ON

Why you have to put up with thing you don't like, when paying that much in rent?

I'm NOT going to put up with it. To be fair to the owner he hasn't said a firm 'no' as yet, but that is what he said when the subject come up before, but it has reached a head now with the lease expiring soon. Of course I will not sign a new contract if it isn't sorted.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

if the renter pays for the unit then either the owner needs to lower the rent or when the renter leaves then they can take the unit with them.

What about if I take half the unit with me?

if you paid for it then its your decision. You could take all of it into the yard and smash it with a sledgehammer if you like

[hotandhumid]

Buying it myself and taking it with me is a decent idea.

Thanks.

[nevets]

Can you not buy a portable AC unit that is free standing ,and can be moved around the house at will.

And of course is yours to keep.

[rgs2001uk]

I'm a landlord for 2 condos.

If the aircon is still in working condition as when you move in, even tho you may not like its performance. If you want it a bit better performance, you (tenant) has to pay to replace it. But when you move out, you have the right to take it with you.

But if it's breaking down and you can prove it "in its performance over the year", then the owner has to fix or replace it w/ his own expense.

If he's not reasonable or doesn't have a basic common sense, there is no need to talk further with him. JUST MOVE ON

Why you have to put up with thing you don't like, when paying that much in rent?

If the aircon is still in working condition as when you move in, even

tho you may not like its performance. If you want it a bit better

performance, you (tenant) has to pay to replace it. But when you move

out, you have the right to take it with you.

But if

it's breaking down and you can prove it "in its performance over the

year", then the owner has to fix or replace it w/ his own expense.

And where would this pertinent information be written down?

I suggest the OP has a read of the contract he signed.

[hotandhumid]

Can you not buy a portable AC unit that is free standing ,and can be moved around the house at will.

And of course is yours to keep.

Somebody else said this.

Now much are they? I assume you just plug it in the wall and without significantly increasing the electric bill?

[h90]

Where we rent we bought but took it when we left.

Agreement with split half/half would be also fair. Or he buys it and you pay a higher rent...

[Neeranam]

if the renter pays for the unit then either the owner needs to lower the rent or when the renter leaves then they can take the unit with them.

What about if I take half the unit with me?

That's actually a good idea. Tell the landlord this to show him how ridiculous he is being. I've been renting my house for 7 years and my Chinese/Thai landlady asked us to pay for half of many things, including two air conditioners. We bought the ac's so of course taking them with us. For other things like security bars etc we paid half as she said if I don't like it move.

[impulse]

I'd suggest a portable A/C with the hose that gets vented out a window, then there is no question you can take it with you. I've seen portable A/C's for 9000 baht and up, but don't have any idea how big a unit you'd need to make your living area comfortable.

Legally, items affixed to real property may become part of the real property. A silly example is that you can't take with you the green paint you put on the walls without damaging the walls- so the green paint becomes part of the real property. Contrast that with a new sofa that isn't attached to anything, which remains personal property and can be taken with when you move. That's based on western real estate law and not universal at that.

If you have an A/C unit installed by bolting it to a wall and cutting holes in the wall for the tubing, that could become part of the real property, as opposed to your personal property. Then it's up to the whim of the landlord whether to pursue you if you do choose to take it with you. (Technically, they could also charge you for removing it if you installed it without their permission) Since you're questioning just how reasonable the landlord is, probably not a good situation to anticipate putting yourself in.

I'd also agree with those who have suggest you move on if you can't live with the terms and conditions on offer.

Edited March 17, 2013 by impulse

[TommoPhysicist]

Easy answer ........ farang pays (as usual).

[cheeryble]

Easy answer ........ farang pays (as usual).

farang landlord or farang tenant?

Tell the landlord this to show him how ridiculous he is being.

What is the least ridiculous in the landlord's behaviour?

[HardenedSoul]

Buying it myself and taking it with me is a decent idea.

Thanks.

No. It isn't a decent idea.

There's a good chance that the installers will do a botch job and damage the property. When you decide to move and take the unit with you, the landlord may look to recoup the cost of making the property good by taking a chunk out of your deposit.

If he wants to keep a solid, reliable tenant, he should bear the cost for what is a tangible improvement to his property. If he's too short-sighted to see that, then he's been here too long and has adopted the natives' business practices.

Tell him to piss off and vote with your feet.

[yourauntbob]

Buying it myself and taking it with me is a decent idea.

Thanks.

Be careful and get that in writing, i am not sure what they laws are here in thailand but in many counties that is not allowed. once you attach somehting to the house it is officially property of the land lord. just be careful

i would say insist the landlord pay for and install a new one or your going to find a new place. houses in the 28k per month range are not always easily rented out. even missing one month rent would be worse than picking up the tab on an aircon unit (the unit ads value to the place). stand tough and he may give in.

[banglay]

you rented the property and accepted the terms and conditions .why should the owner/renter upgrade at his own cost the A/C just because now you have realised it is not up to the job...If you are not happy rent another property ..there's plenty to be had

[thenervoussurgeon]

We must be lucky ,have rented our detached house now for many years(thai owner) any repairs or replacements ,anything in fact over 2000 baht is paid for ,just told ,"if it needs doing ,do it and deduct from the rent" ,never even wants a bill but trusts us. for our part we treat the house as if it were ours and keep it in perfect shape ,also my wife has made the garden a treat to sit in . however as you took the house as it was ,it is up to you to put in anything extra you want ,but after saying that he would be mad not to put it in for you as if you leave he could be left with an emty house for years in that price range ,as there are masses to choose from.

Edited March 17, 2013 by thenervoussurgeon

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

We must be lucky ,have rented our detached house now for many years(thai owner) any repairs or replacements ,anything in fact over 2000 baht is paid for ,just told ,"if it needs doing ,do it and deduct from the rent" ,never even wants a bill but trusts us. for our part we treat the house as if it were ours and keep it in perfect shape ,also my wife has made the garden a treat to sit in . however as you took the house as it was ,it is up to you to put in anything extra you want ,but after saying that he would be mad not to put it in for you as if you leave he could be left with an emty house for years in that price range ,as there are masses to choose from.

same with my landlord who is German. Great landlord and wants the quality of the maintenance to be top notch so that if and when I leave it will be desirable to the next renter.

I have to ask him first over email or phone but once he approves it I have the repair done and deduct from rent.

If this landlord hesitates much I would start looking for a better landlord. They are definitely out there.

[pattayadingo]

I'd agree with those who say let him put in the new aircon. Dpending where you live, there are plenty of houses to rent for less than 28K a month and maybe with good better landlords. It seems false economy to me for the landlord to be awkward about this. As someone else said, he'd most likely lose more than the cost of the aircon waiting for a new teneant, especially considering how strong the Baht is at the moment and less people about to rent a place at that price.

To those that say a fitment becomes part of the house, I've fitted a few things to walls and taken them when I've moved. Fill the holes with filler. No damage. No complaints either. I bought it, it is mine, no-one elses.

[Bluenose BKK]

"I thought I would seek the advise of the wise folk of tv regarding my situation."

Oh dear,I can see this ending in tears!

[TommoPhysicist]

When your rented house no longer suits, you give notice telling the landlord why.

He then has the choice, fix the problem or find a new tenant.

It's only polite.

[Beetlejuice]

You must have noted the types of air conditioning system prior to agreeing to rent the said property. So why did you agree to rent without first discussing with your landlord that you were not satisfied with the AC system?

Also I strongly doubt that the farang is legally entitled under Thai law to run a renting business probably in a property that he is not permitted to own. Who gives you your rent receipts or signs your rent book? I bet he doesn’t, that he actually uses his wife’s or Thai girlfriend’s name on the paperwork. If it is this farang? Then you can use that against him.

Considering that the AC is not faulty and is the same as on inception of your tenancy, than your only options are to accept the way it is, move your chairs and where you sit nearer the AC, pay half or all towards a new more powerful AC or move on.

[Beetlejuice]

A farang who has financed a property other than a condominium and is a part of a renting real estate business, in the majority of cases is classified as owning a property and working illegally.

Anyone considering renting a property where a farang appears to be in charge, should question whether the assumed landlord is a bona fide owner of the property, and whether he/she has the applicable work permits to run a property renting business or to act as an agent for the actual owners.

Otherwise under the law, any contracts made between the so-called owners and the tenants maybe null and void and could involve a lawsuit in order to obtain the refunds of any deposits or breach of contracts.

You have been warned and take on these tenancies at your own risk and discretion.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[hotandhumid]

A farang who has financed a property other than a condominium and is a part of a renting real estate business, in the majority of cases is classified as owning a property and working illegally.

Anyone considering renting a property where a farang appears to be in charge, should question whether the assumed landlord is a bona fide owner of the property, and whether he/she has the applicable work permits to run a property renting business or to act as an agent for the actual owners.

Otherwise under the law, any contracts made between the so-called owners and the tenants maybe null and void and could involve a lawsuit in order to obtain the refunds of any deposits or breach of contracts.

You have been warned and take on these tenancies at your own risk and discretion.

And there speaks the voice of reason.

What a guy.