Elderly Man With Five Year Overstay

[NancyL]

I've been visiting an elderly man in the hospital. Turns out he decided to stop doing tourist visa runs about 5 years ago. Now he has health problems and has run up huge hospital debts here. (Also, he has other debts for vehicle repair, loans from "friends" etc) He doesn't have sufficient funds to qualify for a retirement extension.

What are his options? It's doubtful he'll ever be well enough to survive the rigors of transport to Bangkok and IDC. Surprisingly, the government hospital hasn't contacted Immigration yet, although they know about the overstay and his inability to pay.

He is from a European country with a disinterested embassy and no honorary consul here in CM. They contacted his children and siblings in his home country and learned his family has nothing but bad things to say about him and are unwilling to help. His local drinking buddies, Thai GF and her family are unwilling to help.

Yes, he doesn't seem like a good person, but he is now an elderly, fragile person.

He does have a regular pension income (not enough to qualify for retirement extension) and it's possible he could save up enough money to pay a 20,000 baht overstay and purchase an airline ticket. Would he just be able to leave from the airport given his long overstay history and outstanding debts?

[Mario2008]

Yes, if he has money to pay the fine and a ticket out he can just fly out. With a very long overstay it is always better to visit an immigration office first with fine and ticket out, as they might want a check on his history. But at the airprot they are pretty relaed about this.

If the debters go to court, they can ask a judge to prevent him leaving the country. If not, he can just leave.

His embassy did what all embassies do, regard his as his problem and contacted his family to see if they would help. With that their responsibility greatly ends.

[uptheos]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

[lopburi3]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

[NancyL]

So, Mario2008 -- are you saying it would be better to try to clear the overstay at the local Immigration office, rather than simply arrive really early at the airport for flight check-in? If so, presumably, this should be done no further than 7 days in advance of the flight, because I suspect Immigration will give him a 7-day extension.

Any yes, I know his Embassy did what every embassy is expected to do. It's just I'm used to working with the American consulate and various honorary consuls here in CM who are sensitive to the special needs of their elderly citizens who have been long-term residents in CM.

After all, the Embassy staff is going to have more work if their "do nothing" strategy is implemented, i.e. he'll die in IDC or in transport.

[uptheos]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

[Mario2008]

You can try to do it at the airport and I suspect there will not be any problem, especially when he is old. But do arrive early, in case they want to investigate him. I know a person who had more than 1 year overstay who was send away at BKK-immigration and told to simply go to the airport.

[Mario2008]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

It is the responsibility of the host country. Don't expect your own embassy to hold your hand, you must make your own arrangements. Having things like health insurence, people who can help you in case you are sick etc is something you must consider if you want to live her, just like living in any other country.

Some people with Thai wifes/family will become demented and lose their ability to communicate with them in Thai and only start speaking in their own language. It are things you must prepare for, just as you must prepare a will for when you die.

[KBAA]

Why worry ?
He had been here 5 years not getting cought !
So why not continue ?

They can actually demand that the ticket out have to be to his homecountry !

There is several guys in Esaan who been living here for ages, no visa no nothing at all, there is one in Kalasin who sell noodles, he have a trolley like other Thais, police even buy from him, when some ask police why they not do anything, they say, he have no money, so what can we do ?? Put him in jail for rest of his life ? !

If he get cought, they will keep him in jail untill he have money enough for the fine and ticket, his pension can cover that, over a few months, when in jail heg get fed and can not buy drinks !!

[laurentbkk]

Well it seems nobody want to help that guy, family , girlfriend, drinking friends etc .... Nothing to do , unless you want to raise money for him . Embassy usually have special funds for people in needs, must check in Bangkok , if he is from European country .

[Khun Robert]

quote from the OP: It's doubtful he'll ever be well enough to survive the rigors of transport to Bangkok and IDC.

After you fixed his overstay he will be well enough to fly back to his home country?

And what change he has in his home country?

Does he have a house, enough income to stay, enough money for medical treatment etc?

It looks like this person lost out on many things, his family and friends do not want to help at all.

He has no money, lots of debt and a health issue.

Not the best combination where ever you are in the world.

[dddave]

I know this sounds cold, but it appears that this individual has over the years consciously burned his bridges to his home country and family, used up his friends generosity and has generally ignored any responsibilities to himself and his own well being, somehow counting on others to shoulder the burden of his care when the time came.

Why should the Thai health care system or his home country including embassy or his family or any good hearted people fall all over themselves to help this man. He make very selfish choices and now the consequences of his own irresponsibility are upon him.

[uptheos]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

It is the responsibility of the host country. Don't expect your own embassy to hold your hand, you must make your own arrangements. Having things like health insurence, people who can help you in case you are sick etc is something you must consider if you want to live her, just like living in any other country.

Some people with Thai wifes/family will become demented and lose their ability to communicate with them in Thai and only start speaking in their own language. It are things you must prepare for, just as you must prepare a will for when you die.

I wasn't asking on my behalf lol.

If I were dumped in the British Embassy with no means, I'd be on British soil?

Can't see them carrying me out and dumping me onto Thai territory if I were vulnerable............hmmm cancel that. maybe I can.

[davejones]

Sounds like it's his own fault. I know it sounds harsh, but if you don't care about yourself, and don't care about others, then this is what you can expect. I've seen plenty of people like this. I won't help just because they are old. They chose the life, so they have to live by it. Neither his family or friends will help, so that says it all for me.

[yummypizza]

Seems to be unwanted every where, don't people understand that they will grow old ,may get sick, maybe have no money, if he waited this long hoping he would never need assistance, then he has created his own karma, the elderly were once young, if you were a good person,there would be no problems, it reminds me of elderly men who did violently wrong to young people,there excuse is ,but now i am old and sick,! sorry mate, don't look good in any case, if you send him home,what happens? no family who cares, he may be worse off, i'd leave him in the care of some one who is willing to take care of him in return for his pension,here in Thailand...

[Bpuumike]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

As a non-resident he won't be entitled to treatment in the UK.

[Jay Sata]

Suspect nobody is interested in legalities (as with hospital not reporting) due to his age and condition so perhaps better to keep on back burner as he does not appear to have much of an option with return to home country even if able (although not sure if he would then have free treatment/housing perhaps)?

Certainly would be entitled to treatment, accommodation and shelter in UK.

As a non-resident he won't be entitled to treatment in the UK.

He'll be facing a grim time if he returns to the UK.

[lopburi3]

We do not know what his home country is.

[cooked]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

I think that A Thai security guard would call the police. Not a good option.

[NancyL]

I think we all can agree that he was unwise not to have savings, health insurance, to burn his bridges back to his home country, nuke the ground around the bridges so they can't be rebuilt, and to be an unpleasant individual barely tolerated by people here.

However, now we're dealing with the man's present and future. I wouldn't want this man as a friend -- my intrerest is in relieving human suffering and the burden to the Thai people. Otherwise, if people like this continue to create a burden to Thai society, the situation will become harder for the rest of us foreigners.

He's not from the U.K., but I'd rather not get more specific, only to say his European country doesn't have a consular presence here in CM. He would be entitled to free care in his home country -- just as any destitute U.K. citizen would receive emergency care upon arriva in the U.K., especially if it was evident he wasn't leaving the U.K. againl. They're not going to deport a U.K. national. http://www.heathrowtravelcare.co.uk/

I've assisted other elderly foreigners to arrange their repatriation, but never one with this long an overstay. Korean Airlines does a great job with a direct flight CM- Seoul, a few hours in the great airport in Seoul and then one flight to dozens of cities in Europe and the Americas. The staff of Korean Air does a great job of taking care of elderly passengers in wheelchairs. I don't think this is nearly as physically taxing as transport from CM to the IDC and a few weeks or even months in IDC>

Edited March 22, 2013 by NancyL

[rubber]

Sounds as a heavy drinker maybe!?! However! REMEMBER all kinda chemical addiction are classified as a disease by WHO (World Health Organisation). So why all this "blame your self" comments!?! This guy have lost control over his life long before he end up in hospital for sure. So he need All help he can get. Never point a finger as there are always 3 pointing back at your self!

[StefanBBK]

I am sorry for this guy. In most European countries provisions are made for the elderly. Here much is based on family support.

Best would be to park him at the local Wat and see if the monks have mercy.

[BrianCR]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

Most Embassies, although they will try their hardest not to, would have no option other than repatriate him (if they are unable to get money from friends and family). When he arrives in his home country his passport would be impounded until the money was repaid - as for the overstay fine Embassies are not allowed to interfere in local law so that part would be left to the local immigration police as to whether they wished to press charges.

[Mario2008]

I think we all can agree that he was unwise not to have savings, health insurance, to burn his bridges back to his home country, nuke the ground around the bridges so they can't be rebuilt, and to be an unpleasant individual barely tolerated by people here.

However, now we're dealing with the man's present and future. I wouldn't want this man as a friend -- my intrerest is in relieving human suffering and the burden to the Thai people. Otherwise, if people like this continue to create a burden to Thai society, the situation will become harder for the rest of us foreigners.

He's not from the U.K., but I'd rather not get more specific, only to say his European country doesn't have a consular presence here in CM. He would be entitled to free care in his home country -- just as any destitute U.K. citizen would receive emergency care upon arriva in the U.K., especially if it was evident he wasn't leaving the U.K. againl. They're not going to deport a U.K. national. http://www.heathrowtravelcare.co.uk/

I've assisted other elderly foreigners to arrange their repatriation, but never one with this long an overstay. Korean Airlines does a great job with a direct flight CM- Seoul, a few hours in the great airport in Seoul and then one flight to dozens of cities in Europe and the Americas. The staff of Korean Air does a great job of taking care of elderly passengers in wheelchairs. I don't think this is nearly as physically taxing as transport from CM to the IDC and a few weeks or even months in IDC>

And you are doing good job. Just try to make sure there will be someone to help him after arriving at his destination.

If he wants to fly from CM, h will have to go through immigration there. I don't know how they regard long overstay. At Bangkok he would in all likelihood be processed without much further delay.

However, all airport immigration sections fall under the same division and not under the local immigration office.

[uptheos]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

Most Embassies, although they will try their hardest not to, would have no option other than repatriate him (if they are unable to get money from friends and family). When he arrives in his home country his passport would be impounded until the money was repaid - as for the overstay fine Embassies are not allowed to interfere in local law so that part would be left to the local immigration police as to whether they wished to press charges.

This sounds pretty much like I thought it would be, once on 'home' soil with nothing they have to do something, they can't throw you out into the street, it would make front page news in the person's home country at the speed of light..

The guy is not from the UK but others here have said if he was sent back he would get nothing and I say rubbish!

Organisations like Age UK, Shelter etc would have a field day. The guy would get treatment, no question. He would get shelter, no question and you can't be without money to buy food in the UK, so he would get that. Once he's been back a while and settled he will get all the benefits he's entitled to whether anyone on here from the UK, thinks so or not. He would be classed as extremely vulnerable and get looked after accordingly. What do people think the UK gov would do deport him?

[bendywire]

A sad story and one we should all ponder if we want to stay here.

[Locationthailand]

He's not the first and won't be the last. This guy might be on overstay but his family, friends and GF have rejected him. Nice situation to be in? Just hope it never happens to me with all the sympathetic OP's here.

[Skorz]

This guy sounds like me in 30 years time. Perhaps he is me? Do I fall through a wormhole in CM and land up in 2013 but 30 years older? my kids already hate me and my wife left me four weeks ago because I am a stingy 'sticky shit' farang.

Christ alive, I think I'd better bail myself out of this mess before I end up crawling around under the local fried chicken stall covered in my own poo.

[arch77778]

Cant we get a ruling from the Embassies on this matter.It will happen again.

[candypants]

Please don't take this the wrong way it's just a question.

What would an embassy do if someone was simply left on their premises with no ID, no money, nothing, except a passport of that country?

edit: as pointed out, a passport is, for all intensive purposes, the ultimate form of id. silly bluddy question really.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

most would not allow him on the premises in the first place.

there but for the grace of god go us all, but the irony here is many who write on these pages that they are glad to be shot of the nanny state, expect that same state to step up in times of trouble.

it is kind of like an atheist reverting to prayer when it all goes horribly wrong.

Edited March 22, 2013 by candypants