Thai Commerce Ministry To Save Mom And Pop Stores

[expat888]

I live out in the sticks. Normally buy the beer at Makro. Once was out of beer, so sent the wife out to nearest M&P store to buy a couple of bottles of Heineken. She bought them at the new price as the tax had gone up the day before. Tasted like sh!t. Checked the date, about 9 months old!! So the old hag had bought them long time ago, but heard the price had gone up, so charged the new price for very old stock. I'm more careful now to make sure never out of stock at home

Good idea. I have a reminder on my phone and also on outlook. Sunday..BigC.. week supply Leo.

Leo?

[Pimay1]

I live out in the sticks. Normally buy the beer at Makro. Once was out of beer, so sent the wife out to nearest M&P store to buy a couple of bottles of Heineken. She bought them at the new price as the tax had gone up the day before. Tasted like sh!t. Checked the date, about 9 months old!! So the old hag had bought them long time ago, but heard the price had gone up, so charged the new price for very old stock. I'm more careful now to make sure never out of stock at home

Good idea. I have a reminder on my phone and also on outlook. Sunday..BigC.. week supply Leo.

Leo?

To each his/her own my friend.

[eddie61]

The really rural stores will survive old stock on the floor and all, the ones nearer city areas haven't got a chance unless they become franchised as for buying bulk from Makro i can go in them and purchase which i do very limited items otherwise it's Big C or Tesco's for singular item's cheaper that the Makro bulk price.

I do go to them quite often for alcohol on non-allowed days or restricted times - oops... illegal

and cigarettes sold by the stick - oops.... illegal.

There is nothing wrong with selective enforcement of the laws, after all, it is a "cultural tradition" in Thailand (quote Mr. Earache)

Edited April 2, 2013 by eddie61

[tragickingdom]

Really foreign owned? Mom and Pop stores are not driven out of business by Makro or Big C, but by the Thai license holders of Seven eleven, the Charoen Pokhand family.

[Bluespunk]

Nice thought but it will not work. A small store with limited products in dusty boxes simply has no chance. The Thai consumer has spoken by voting with their feet and shopping at the Tesco / 7-11 stores. Saving the small stores would be like trying to save buggy whip manufacturers in the early 1900s.....

Side note: why are these big stores called " foreign owned" ??? They all must have majority Thai partners by law.. So really they are " Thai owned". Guess the word foreign thrown in there sounds more dramatic..

not so much dramatic, more so typical racist ranting

[overherebc]

What should be looked at is the parking for customers for these mom and pop stores, food stalls, whiskey shops, etc. The majority seem to be located where there is no foot path, in dwelling which doubles as a residense, thus customers park on the roadway, sometimes on both sides (if it is popular).

Does the Commerce ministry hope to collect tax from these family run businesses? Doubtful, so This would appear to be another vote getter. We have become a hub for/of Mou's presented and signed locally, nationally, and internationally, in the past few months. None seem to have produced any viable results, thus some of us view their mention as more hot air bs.

One of the first things that popped into my head was a thought on your lines of, we could get them on the tax paying list. If they have to get a loan at the bank they would have have to show enough income to justify the loan and from there the income of the shop would be on record.

[expat888]

I live out in the sticks. Normally buy the beer at Makro. Once was out of beer, so sent the wife out to nearest M&P store to buy a couple of bottles of Heineken. She bought them at the new price as the tax had gone up the day before. Tasted like sh!t. Checked the date, about 9 months old!! So the old hag had bought them long time ago, but heard the price had gone up, so charged the new price for very old stock. I'm more careful now to make sure never out of stock at home

Good idea. I have a reminder on my phone and also on outlook. Sunday..BigC.. week supply Leo.

Leo?

To each his/her own my friend.

Just joking.

Edited April 2, 2013 by expat888

[catweazle]

Yeah sure... even though this idea might have been hammered up with best of intentions, the banks will be the winners in the end. "Credits to those who need help" and later are unable to pay back, so the bank can claim the mom and pop store and turn it into a 7Eleven with ATM and ADM machines...

... and foreign-owned businesses being their biggest competitors, my A$$ - what a load of horseshite! Also thought that foreigners can't own buinesses in Thailand, respectively 49% max. Always great to see when they take the "bash the foreigners bat" out of the closet whenever it comes to the government "helping" the poor local people.

In addition - if I (and I believe 90% of the readers are with me on this) have the choice of either buying the supplies for my family in a dusty, hot and dirty "mom and pop store" that stinks of rat pee, and where I find Mama soup or fish cans that are 2 years or more over their expiry dates on the dirty floor, looking at the cheap made in China toys for 20 Baht that break the very instant you take them out of the package and on check out having to look at "pop" standing there without a shirt on picking his nose and "mom" sitting in a corner doing her "Papaya Pok Pok" while watching a Thai soap on TV with the volume turned up to 100%, I have to admit that I would prefer the air-conditioned, clean and organized "foreign or whoever owned competitor".

I don't think that "mom and pop" would listen to any advise of how to make a shop look nice, because they haven't got a clue and they are not interested. In Thailand, people stick to "it was ok back then and will still be ok today AND tomorrow". A general understanding that they and their customers would feel much better in a clean and well lit shop that smells of roses instead of a buffalo shed, is absent and it always will be. Despite the government's effort to save them, the "mom and pop" stores in urban areas will disappear for good within the coming 5 to 10 years. For "modern" Thais these shags won't work anymore - and why should they?

[Greenside]

Of course, you have to feel sorry for the Mom & Pop stores which are for the most part run by poor people with little or no education but the unforgivable failure here is that of every government over the last 50 years. For all that time (and more, if you look at the States) the growth of supermarket style retailing coupled with increased personal mobility has devastated small local shops in country after country. These governments had the privilege a real life crystal ball and plenty of time to put in place all sorts of measures that might have helped those whose livelihoods are sure to disappear before long.

What kind of measures? Education, planning to restrict the number and location of big retail developments, attention to things like parking when planning new roads and housing areas - not rocket science but sadly far beyond the imagination and ability of those the people chose to serve them. Or didn't choose, in many cases.

I'd also go so far as to say the the xenophobic attitude to foreign businesses that has been branded as a danger to Thai jobs has also prevented the transfer of skills to ordinary work people who are quick to learn and copy where successful ventures are seen to be working nearby. Shutting them out is simply head in the sand tactics.

[comserve]

A few of the "family" stores are good. We have one in our town who openly tries to have everything in his store.

A really good store, run by chinese of course, and keeps the prices down. He has a good stock turnover so everything is fresh, the only problem with him is it is still a cash only store. That's why I still go to BigC for the large shopping although these days BigC has been cutting down on the number of check-outs that are open

A few more check-out chicks would be handy here.

[dressedingreen]

This is the same inexorable advance toward big store shopping that most western countries went through in the latter 30 years of the 20th century. None of what is being suggested will reverse the trend. Once a people have seen what well run supermarkets can do they rarely go back to M & P stores, except the most modern ones who get their act together to compete with the franchises for local trade. The facts are these ...

1) Most M & P stores are run by people who have no formal training in retail, or indeed business in general.

2) The vast majority of Thai stores outside the cities (and many within) are dusty, dirty, have a high percentage of outdated stock and are not customer friendly.

3) These businesses do not keep up with consumer trends, do not advertise, promote or attempt to upgrade their businesses.

4) The manufacturing trade in Thailand dictates the prices and general business terms, and wholesale is neither well developed nor efficient (in many consumer sectors).

5) Manufacturing and wholesale price reductions are simply pocketed instead of being passed on to the consumer.

6) Customer service is extremely poor.

7) A high percentage of these stores are run on a shoestring budget, with families literally working hand to mouth.

8) Very little research is done before most Thai businesses are opened.

9) Many Thai stores sell the same products (Som Tam seller syndrome). The idea of specialization hasn't moved too far from the city centers.

10) There are very few traditional stores that look to build a business. They usually just open and stay the same. So when their traditional business model is under threat they have no plan B.

The next decade or so will shake out a high percentage of these businesses. One of the casualties will be the price of shop houses. There are far too many for a business environment that will, like the west, gravitate toward specialization, big box premises, advertizing and lifestyle driven consumer behavior, and move upmarket. IMO, many of them will be turned into apartments.

The Thai government is making the expected noises. But I have little doubt they know the writing is on the wall for these kinds of small, poorly run businesses, most of which make little profit and are often run by wives while their husbands work in larger local businesses or factories, and without their salaries the stores wouldn't survive anyway.

This is what happens when nations develop. Big business takes over, the 'little guys' are absorbed into the general workforce and Gemeinschaft is overtaken by Gesellschaft.

DIG

[Johnnie99]

The biggest competitors to the traditional 'mom and pop' shops are 7-11 and fresh mart, both CP, hardly a foreign company!, as well as the smaller Tescos.

When I first arrived here there were no Lotus, BigC, Tops etc only the local mom and pop stores, dingy dusty places that quickly became known by us foreigners as 'mai mee' stores.

I think some of them still have the same stock after more than 20 years and a lot deserve to be closed. I'm sure there is still a place for these small independent shops as they can now buy their stock at places like Makro and local wholesalers.

A couple of independents near to us seem to have an almost constant supply of customers, but they have bright shops with good displays. Some small shops still seem to be stuck in the 80's and, for whatever reason do not want to change.

That is the 1880s to which you refer?

[Johnnie99]

Yeah sure... even though this idea might have been hammered up with best of intentions, the banks will be the winners in the end. "Credits to those who need help" and later are unable to pay back, so the bank can claim the mom and pop store and turn it into a 7Eleven with ATM and ADM machines...

... and foreign-owned businesses being their biggest competitors, my A$$ - what a load of horseshite! Also thought that foreigners can't own buinesses in Thailand, respectively 49% max. Always great to see when they take the "bash the foreigners bat" out of the closet whenever it comes to the government "helping" the poor local people.

In addition - if I (and I believe 90% of the readers are with me on this) have the choice of either buying the supplies for my family in a dusty, hot and dirty "mom and pop store" that stinks of rat pee, and where I find Mama soup or fish cans that are 2 years or more over their expiry dates on the dirty floor, looking at the cheap made in China toys for 20 Baht that break the very instant you take them out of the package and on check out having to look at "pop" standing there without a shirt on picking his nose and "mom" sitting in a corner doing her "Papaya Pok Pok" while watching a Thai soap on TV with the volume turned up to 100%, I have to admit that I would prefer the air-conditioned, clean and organized "foreign or whoever owned competitor".

I don't think that "mom and pop" would listen to any advise of how to make a shop look nice, because they haven't got a clue and they are not interested. In Thailand, people stick to "it was ok back then and will still be ok today AND tomorrow". A general understanding that they and their customers would feel much better in a clean and well lit shop that smells of roses instead of a buffalo shed, is absent and it always will be. Despite the government's effort to save them, the "mom and pop" stores in urban areas will disappear for good within the coming 5 to 10 years. For "modern" Thais these shags won't work anymore - and why should they?

How cynical. I rather enjoy looking behind the counters and saying hello to the numerous rats which turn to look at me. The Thai owners all seem to enjoy the joke too, even as I walk away without buying their vintage stock of 'fresh' food. Crazy farang speaking to rats, I ask you!

Edited April 2, 2013 by Johnnie99

[barefoot1988]

i go mom and pops more. somehow they have some exclusive tibits that couldnt be found in tesco, 7/11. and grabbing a can of chang to beat the noon heat is impossible in 7/11, lotus express

[khaowong1]

They could start by openly displaying the prices of goods so that you aren't spinning the price wheel when you approach the counter.

In a lot of cases the price depends on if we go in to make a purchase or our gf/wife goes in to make the purchase. Therefore no price on the item.

Case in point. I went to a local shop to make some copies of documents. They charged me 3 Baht per copy. A couple of weeks later the old gf went to the same shop, made more copies...2 Baht per copy.

I even asked them why they did this. I had known them for about 3 years. played with their kids, took their kids with me when I went to Big C, etc and etc. They told me because I'm a farang and have more money than my gf. It's a Thai thing.

[caughtintheact]

Who is really hurt by the Supermarkets? ... Suppliers! Supermarkets with their enormous buying power drive heavy competition and the suppliers have to drop their profit margin to ensure their products continue to be displayed on the shelves.

Not necessarily. While the profit margin of suppliers gets cut, they make it up in volume. The competition among suppliers and retailers keeps prices to consumers low, and we are all consumers. The buyers need suppliers, but they want competitive and efficient suppliers so the buyers can remain competitive. The big companies can only squeeze suppliers that have a lot of competition, so the answer to getting higher margins is to supply products that have a high demand but a small supply.

[thhMan]

I went to buy a pack of fags at one a few weeks back as the traffic near the 7-11 was chaotic as it has a market beside it....

So mom and pop sold me a pack of L&M's and when I got home, I realized it was already opened... "FARK" !!!

[keithet]

What should be looked at is the parking for customers for these mom and pop stores, food stalls, whiskey shops, etc. The majority seem to be located where there is no foot path, in dwelling which doubles as a residense, thus customers park on the roadway, sometimes on both sides (if it is popular).

Does the Commerce ministry hope to collect tax from these family run businesses? Doubtful, so This would appear to be another vote getter. We have become a hub for/of Mou's presented and signed locally, nationally, and internationally, in the past few months. None seem to have produced any viable results, thus some of us view their mention as more hot air bs.

One of the first things that popped into my head was a thought on your lines of, we could get them on the tax paying list. If they have to get a loan at the bank they would have have to show enough income to justify the loan and from there the income of the shop would be on record.

Bingo! That is what I thought of too. The only thing I see gov. woried about when it comes to people is money. And if they also offer a electronic way of paying there is a reciept. Then they can not sell alcohal on holidays and off hours.

By the government helping, all it is creating is a paper trail for money to be tracked. And sales to be recorded.

[kennedy]

A few of the "family" stores are good. We have one in our town who openly tries to have everything in his store.

A really good store, run by chinese of course, and keeps the prices down. He has a good stock turnover so everything is fresh, the only problem with him is it is still a cash only store. That's why I still go to BigC for the large shopping although these days BigC has been cutting down on the number of check-outs that are open

A few more check-out chicks would be handy here.

I have credit with the Chinese shop owner down the soi. Never have to worry about cash. Its 10 kms to an atm. He's become a good friend, just like in the old days when people trusted each other. He treats me like family.

Edited April 2, 2013 by kennedy

[simosiam]

Nice thought but it will not work. A small store with limited products in dusty boxes simply has no chance. The Thai consumer has spoken by voting with their feet and shopping at the Tesco / 7-11 stores. Saving the small stores would be like trying to save buggy whip manufacturers in the early 1900s.....

Side note: why are these big stores called " foreign owned" ??? They all must have majority Thai partners by law.. So really they are " Thai owned". Guess the word foreign thrown in there sounds more dramatic..

7-11 is american and Tesco I think must be British. Big company haven't the same rules as small company, they don't need Thai partnership

[kimamey]

Nice thought but it will not work. A small store with limited products in dusty boxes simply has no chance. The Thai consumer has spoken by voting with their feet and shopping at the Tesco / 7-11 stores. Saving the small stores would be like trying to save buggy whip manufacturers in the early 1900s.....

Side note: why are these big stores called " foreign owned" ??? They all must have majority Thai partners by law.. So really they are " Thai owned". Guess the word foreign thrown in there sounds more dramatic..

7-11 is american and Tesco I think must be British. Big company haven't the same rules as small company, they don't need Thai partnership

Tesco is British but I'm sure I read that 7-11 is Japanese owned now.

his seems to confirm it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven

[hkt83100]

Leo?

Better than Heineken, Chang, Singha, or Cheers.

[Thai at Heart]

Nice thought but it will not work. A small store with limited products in dusty boxes simply has no chance. The Thai consumer has spoken by voting with their feet and shopping at the Tesco / 7-11 stores. Saving the small stores would be like trying to save buggy whip manufacturers in the early 1900s.....

Side note: why are these big stores called " foreign owned" ??? They all must have majority Thai partners by law.. So really they are " Thai owned". Guess the word foreign thrown in there sounds more dramatic..

7-11 is american and Tesco I think must be British. Big company haven't the same rules as small company, they don't need Thai partnership

Tesco is British but I'm sure I read that 7-11 is Japanese owned now.

his seems to confirm it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven

Tesco is Thai owned through complex shareholdings. A little whiff of problems saw thaksins VISA cancelled to a check of their share arrangements.

7 11in Thailand is CP, which is Thai on paper

Edited April 2, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

Actually thinking about it, this story is probably a CP sponsored shot across the bows to various people to stop bitching about work conditions in shrimp factories and conditions on boats.

[rubl]

The local mom & pop shops fill a local need and are not meant for grumbling foreigners who can't read Thai or even ask in Thai what is this, where is that, how much?

Having said that even in my part of the jungle (Khet Dusit, Bangkok :-)) I see two 7/11s opposite to each other with two m&p shops next to them. Mostly bought in the M&P shop seems to be single cigarettes, local made lao dong and other interesting brews, a large beer bottle with two straws and SangThip/Mekhon with soda. Walking to buy a beer past mignight I'm frequently offered a taste by taxi drivers sitting around to 'end their shift'.

From what I see, and remember this is in Bangkok, any improvement which would lead to raising prises would be looked upon in a negative way!

[ZhouZhou]

They could start by openly displaying the prices of goods so that you aren't spinning the price wheel when you approach the counter.

In a lot of cases the price depends on if we go in to make a purchase or our gf/wife goes in to make the purchase. Therefore no price on the item.

Case in point. I went to a local shop to make some copies of documents. They charged me 3 Baht per copy. A couple of weeks later the old gf went to the same shop, made more copies...2 Baht per copy.

I even asked them why they did this. I had known them for about 3 years. played with their kids, took their kids with me when I went to Big C, etc and etc. They told me because I'm a farang and have more money than my gf. It's a Thai thing.

shop gives a discount to the gf of a phra falang?

[Thai at Heart]

They could start by openly displaying the prices of goods so that you aren't spinning the price wheel when you approach the counter.

In a lot of cases the price depends on if we go in to make a purchase or our gf/wife goes in to make the purchase. Therefore no price on the item.

Case in point. I went to a local shop to make some copies of documents. They charged me 3 Baht per copy. A couple of weeks later the old gf went to the same shop, made more copies...2 Baht per copy.

I even asked them why they did this. I had known them for about 3 years. played with their kids, took their kids with me when I went to Big C, etc and etc. They told me because I'm a farang and have more money than my gf. It's a Thai thing.

shop gives a discount to the gf of a phra falang?

You doubt know this? It's called reverse psychology dual pricing. What the shop owner doesn't realize, is that the wife has all the farangs assets anyway.

[kimamey]

Nice thought but it will not work. A small store with limited products in dusty boxes simply has no chance. The Thai consumer has spoken by voting with their feet and shopping at the Tesco / 7-11 stores. Saving the small stores would be like trying to save buggy whip manufacturers in the early 1900s.....

Side note: why are these big stores called " foreign owned" ??? They all must have majority Thai partners by law.. So really they are " Thai owned". Guess the word foreign thrown in there sounds more dramatic..

7-11 is american and Tesco I think must be British. Big company haven't the same rules as small company, they don't need Thai partnership

Tesco is British but I'm sure I read that 7-11 is Japanese owned now.

his seems to confirm it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven

Tesco is Thai owned through complex shareholdings. A little whiff of problems saw thaksins VISA cancelled to a check of their share arrangements.

7 11in Thailand is CP, which is Thai on paper

I think you'll find that CP is a franchise owner for Thailand whilst the holding company is Japanese. Tesco is definitely British but Tesco Lotus was a joint business with CP but they sold out I'm not sure who owns those shares now but I think it's operated through a Thai company. This is probably just to get round the Thai ownership rules.

John Christie the CEO of Tesco lotus in Thailand has been with the company for years and his predecessor Chris Bush went back to Tesco UK. So I think it's pretty clear who owns it.

[bumpkin]

As countries develop, the pattern of consumer shopping and spending changes. Few countries have reversed these trends, despite efforts in some places.

[bumpkin]

Nice thought but it will not work. A small store with limited products in dusty boxes simply has no chance. The Thai consumer has spoken by voting with their feet and shopping at the Tesco / 7-11 stores. Saving the small stores would be like trying to save buggy whip manufacturers in the early 1900s.....

Side note: why are these big stores called " foreign owned" ??? They all must have majority Thai partners by law.. So really they are " Thai owned". Guess the word foreign thrown in there sounds more dramatic..

7-11 is american and Tesco I think must be British. Big company haven't the same rules as small company, they don't need Thai partnership

Tesco is British but I'm sure I read that 7-11 is Japanese owned now.

his seems to confirm it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven

TESCO is a UK registered Company, but it's shares may be owned by any nationality. Are the shareholders the owners of the Company ?

Edited April 2, 2013 by bumpkin