Prem Says Corruption Is The 'worst' Crime Of The Nation

[h90]

He's 100% right. But of course the Thaksin acolytes always use the 'but, but the Dems, Abhisit, all previous regimes, etc, etc'

Most of the coups that happened during my long relationship with Thailand were because of corruption.

Another line of thought says that it won't be eradicated until poverty is also eradicated. This is false as the worst participants & beneficiaries are rich with the current political class leading the way. The sort of corruption supported by ordinary Thais in polls is petty corruption with any dealing with the BIB (for example) usually involving a bribe. Yes, it also helps speed up paperwork in the bureaucracy.

Yet another line of thought is that' it happens everywhere'. Yes it does but that's not an excuse to do nothing.

I feel it will take time for the Thai population to realise that those they vote for (even when paid) are there to benefit themselves & not the ordinary people. It may well take a crash of the economy, which is what the PTP are headed for with their mismanagement by over-the-top populism without proper checks & balances.

Are you saying that corruption in a government justifies a military coup? As if the Thai army is some paragon of incorruptibility. All a coup does is increase the prospects for corruption, since a dictators do not need to worry about getting voted out of office no matter what they get exposed doing.

Yes I too can find fault with a lot of the policies of the Shinawatras. Maybe their policies will cause a crash of the economy, which could well turn the population against them. But even though there would be some short-term economic pain, in the long run such an outcome is infinitely preferable to having the government removed by yet another coup. The electorate will learn from their mistake, and demand more from the next set of politicians that they vote in as replacements.

However I highly doubt that it would be the old elite, who cannot even put on a mildly convincing show of governing for ordinary people. Who here really believes that they launched the coup out of benevolence for the Thai people, as opposed to a desire to shore up their own hegemony?

at some point corruption justifies a military coup. For example when corruption destroys democracy. If the people are poor and the press, police, courts and voter can be bought by the corruption money it is so bad that the military must protect the country.

Have a look at the democracy in North Korea. It is a democracy with elections. Would you justify a coup there?

[thaicbr]

To be fair there HAS been corruption in ALL governments in Thailand for as far back as can be remembered. BUT the thing is in recent years it seems to have been getting bigger and bigger were its not just a few thousand here and there or even tens of thousands but millions at a core level.

Granted i may be wrong as i have never come across it myself but there are convincing texts available to quantify it.

One of the biggest problems is that here in Thailand politicians are not just politicians but it's so lucrative it's families involved at all sectors of government.

Just look at the Culture Ministers family for an idea.

"not just a few thousand here and there or even tens of thousands but millions at a core level.

Granted i may be wrong as i have never come across it myself but there are convincing texts available to quantify it."

Well at least you admit it, thank you. If only a few more on here did the same.

Yes. There was (alleged ) corruption in Abhisits government.. But who exactly? It seems it was coalition partners that are now either in PTP or are angling to get back in with them..

My thoughts on most old school Thai political families are well known on here... You get rid of the lot of them and try and let the new blood in (and that does include Korn, Apihrak and Abhisit). On the other side i haven't seen anyone that breaks the mold. Any ideas?

[ZhouZhou]

To be fair there HAS been corruption in ALL governments in Thailand for as far back as can be remembered. BUT the thing is in recent years it seems to have been getting bigger and bigger were its not just a few thousand here and there or even tens of thousands but millions at a core level.

Granted i may be wrong as i have never come across it myself but there are convincing texts available to quantify it.

One of the biggest problems is that here in Thailand politicians are not just politicians but it's so lucrative it's families involved at all sectors of government.

Just look at the Culture Ministers family for an idea.

"not just a few thousand here and there or even tens of thousands but millions at a core level.

Granted i may be wrong as i have never come across it myself but there are convincing texts available to quantify it."

Well at least you admit it, thank you. If only a few more on here did the same.

Yes. There was (alleged ) corruption in Abhisits government.. But who exactly? It seems it was coalition partners that are now either in PTP or are angling to get back in with them..

My thoughts on most old school Thai political families are well known on here... You get rid of the lot of them and try and let the new blood in (and that does include Korn, Apihrak and Abhisit). On the other side i haven't seen anyone that breaks the mold. Any ideas?

Korn and Abhist coming from families involved in politics since generations. why you call that "new blood"?

Shinavatra siblings and inlaws are newcomers compared to them.

[Arkady]

If things don't change , they will remain the same, business as usual General.

Prem was an unelected PM (call it dictator) for many years. He did nothing about the status quo. His own appointed and supported judges were caught red handed on youtube. The General did not spoke out. Why would he. He is using himself blackmail to get the court results the elite desires. By the way it is easier for a dictator like Prem was to change things than for an elected government.

This is not quite correct. Prem was PM for 8 years in the 80s when the constitution didn't require the PM or other ministers to be MPs. Elections took place and the party with the most seats invited Prem to be PM which he accepted until after the 1988 elections when he declined the offer, saying it was time for an elected PM. Prem's style as PM was to appoint technocrats to the key economic ministries and let the politicians squabble over the minor ministries. The NESDB was given responsibility for economic planning. The result was that Thailand had good quality ministers in the key economic portfolios with steady and consistent economic policies and corruption was kept somewhat under control, although flourished more in the smaller ministries controlled by politicians. Rather than didactorship, this structure pacified the generals and prevented further military coups because Prem had the support of most of the army. Two years after he stepped down, there was another coup.

This was not a perfect system and not a pure democracy but it brought peace, stability and economic progress in the 80s, following Thailand's very troubled 70s. Prem also solved the communist insurgency and brought the students back from the jungles by giving a general amnesty. In addition he established the South Border Command which brought relative peace and stability to the Deep South that was eventually shattered when Thailand's champion of democracy, Thaksin Shinawatra, broke up the Southern Border Command and placed police thugs in charge instead, thereby setting the South ablaze.

Prem may not fit the bill as a modern day champion of democracy and he is a conservative, military figure but he was the right man for the times and helped lay the foundations for Thailand's economic boom in the late 80s. Knock him, if you like, but please provide some more detailed arguments.

[nhuii]

I have the answer, but I just cant comment. Hope you know ,Why? Very simple as that ...

[thaicbr]

To be fair there HAS been corruption in ALL governments in Thailand for as far back as can be remembered. BUT the thing is in recent years it seems to have been getting bigger and bigger were its not just a few thousand here and there or even tens of thousands but millions at a core level.

Granted i may be wrong as i have never come across it myself but there are convincing texts available to quantify it.

One of the biggest problems is that here in Thailand politicians are not just politicians but it's so lucrative it's families involved at all sectors of government.

Just look at the Culture Ministers family for an idea.

"not just a few thousand here and there or even tens of thousands but millions at a core level.

Granted i may be wrong as i have never come across it myself but there are convincing texts available to quantify it."

Well at least you admit it, thank you. If only a few more on here did the same.

Yes. There was (alleged ) corruption in Abhisits government.. But who exactly? It seems it was coalition partners that are now either in PTP or are angling to get back in with them..

My thoughts on most old school Thai political families are well known on here... You get rid of the lot of them and try and let the new blood in (and that does include Korn, Apihrak and Abhisit). On the other side i haven't seen anyone that breaks the mold. Any ideas?

Korn and Abhist coming from families involved in politics since generations. why you call that "new blood"?

Shinavatra siblings and inlaws are newcomers compared to them.

Umm the Wikipedia of Abhisit details the family were doctors. His great grand father did serve as public health minister. And father served as deputy minister of public health. Which is fitting for a doctor.

Abhisit himself holds a bachelors degree in philosophy. Politics and economics. And a bachelors in law. This is what I mean by the new breed. Politicians who have the qualifications to do the job.

So again. Who in PTP are the new breed?

PS. Thaksin is not a politician he is a business man. I'm talking about the Silpa Archers. The Newins and the rest.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Edited April 5, 2013 by thaicbr

[animatic]

And Military coups a real disaster for Thailand !!!

You have to ask though:

How many coups were caused by corruption, or instigated by corruption?

In Thailands case most of them.

A few by egos and ambition, but put corruption in that mix too.

Edited April 5, 2013 by animatic

[Credo]

Prem is an interesting man and his words carry a significant amount of weight with a large number of people in the country. I certainly would not want him as an enemy and there is at least one former politician that has learned that lesson the hard way.

Coups do very little if anything. The last one ousted a supposedly corrupt gov't but has gone full circle with the same gov't with slightly different faces being in charge of the country. It was a giant waste of time and helped to cut a deeper divide in the nation. Nothing has been cured.

A core problem and one that can be corrected is corruption. Once the corruption is gone, then the country can start to develop and look for leaders with motives that are pure and genuine. As long as this high level of corruption is acceptable, the country will attract the less-than-stellar elements to politics.

If you don't want alcoholics around, don't open a bar.

[Publicus]

S Korea had spectacular success a decade ago in stamping out endemic corruption when civic groups of civil society paid for full pages of newspaper ads filled by politician's photos saying, "This man is corrupt." That can be subject to abuse, yes, but ten years ago S Korean civil society and civic groups had developed well as responsible and public minded citizens who cared to correct one of the worst problems of their country.

Conversely, in Thailand the more you publicly say someone is corrupt, the more you speak the truth, the more guilty you are in a Thai court of law. Self defeating Thais who never get anything right are, well, self defeating. The Thai elites long ago established laws to protect themselves, each other. Let Prem be the first to lead the charge to change the draconian Thai laws of supposed libel and slander. Who'll go first, Gen Prem?

[muttley]

He's 100% right. But of course the Thaksin acolytes always use the 'but, but the Dems, Abhisit, all previous regimes, etc, etc'

Most of the coups that happened during my long relationship with Thailand were because of corruption.

Another line of thought says that it won't be eradicated until poverty is also eradicated. This is false as the worst participants & beneficiaries are rich with the current political class leading the way. The sort of corruption supported by ordinary Thais in polls is petty corruption with any dealing with the BIB (for example) usually involving a bribe. Yes, it also helps speed up paperwork in the bureaucracy.

Yet another line of thought is that' it happens everywhere'. Yes it does but that's not an excuse to do nothing.

I feel it will take time for the Thai population to realise that those they vote for (even when paid) are there to benefit themselves & not the ordinary people. It may well take a crash of the economy, which is what the PTP are headed for with their mismanagement by over-the-top populism without proper checks & balances.

Are you saying that corruption in a government justifies a military coup? As if the Thai army is some paragon of incorruptibility. All a coup does is increase the prospects for corruption, since a dictators do not need to worry about getting voted out of office no matter what they get exposed doing.

Yes I too can find fault with a lot of the policies of the Shinawatras. Maybe their policies will cause a crash of the economy, which could well turn the population against them. But even though there would be some short-term economic pain, in the long run such an outcome is infinitely preferable to having the government removed by yet another coup. The electorate will learn from their mistake, and demand more from the next set of politicians that they vote in as replacements.

However I highly doubt that it would be the old elite, who cannot even put on a mildly convincing show of governing for ordinary people. Who here really believes that they launched the coup out of benevolence for the Thai people, as opposed to a desire to shore up their own hegemony?

Yes, sometimes it does justify a coup especially when there is no other option available. The last coup was bloodless, the previous one not so. The last coup actually installed a government, not perfect but certainly better than the previous one.

IMO, the government installed by the coup weren't given enough time to clean up Thai politics & the worst agency which was & still is the police. I'm not saying that the military are anyway near perfect but they are certainly third behind Thaksin's regimes & the police in corruption.

You seem to have swallowed the PTP/red shirt propaganda about elites here. The biggest & most powerful elite is the billionaire business cartel whose main thrust is to maintain near (& sometimes actual) monopolies not in any way beneficial to ordinary Thais. It has been some considerable time since any old elite has governed here.

Lastly, vote buying has been endemic here for quite a while - except in the 2007 constitutional referendum where it was forcefully stopped. The mantra - so often heard on TV - that the elected government won the most votes, therefore it should be allowed to govern without any checks & balances. has become a laughing stock to those who think for themselves.

"It has been some considerable time since any old elite has governed here" - How remarkably naive

[backtonormal]

The Invisible Hand, The Coup Maker etc has spoken. The cheek of this chappy is limitless. How can he talk about corruption. I urge readers to do some research on him

[Buchholz]

I have the answer, but I just cant comment. Hope you know ,Why? Very simple as that ...

.

Can you tell us at least what the question is that you have the answer for?

.

[smutcakes]

He's 100% right. But of course the Thaksin acolytes always use the 'but, but the Dems, Abhisit, all previous regimes, etc, etc'

Most of the coups that happened during my long relationship with Thailand were because of corruption.

Another line of thought says that it won't be eradicated until poverty is also eradicated. This is false as the worst participants & beneficiaries are rich with the current political class leading the way. The sort of corruption supported by ordinary Thais in polls is petty corruption with any dealing with the BIB (for example) usually involving a bribe. Yes, it also helps speed up paperwork in the bureaucracy.

Yet another line of thought is that' it happens everywhere'. Yes it does but that's not an excuse to do nothing.

I feel it will take time for the Thai population to realise that those they vote for (even when paid) are there to benefit themselves & not the ordinary people. It may well take a crash of the economy, which is what the PTP are headed for with their mismanagement by over-the-top populism without proper checks & balances.

Are you saying that corruption in a government justifies a military coup? As if the Thai army is some paragon of incorruptibility. All a coup does is increase the prospects for corruption, since a dictators do not need to worry about getting voted out of office no matter what they get exposed doing.

Yes I too can find fault with a lot of the policies of the Shinawatras. Maybe their policies will cause a crash of the economy, which could well turn the population against them. But even though there would be some short-term economic pain, in the long run such an outcome is infinitely preferable to having the government removed by yet another coup. The electorate will learn from their mistake, and demand more from the next set of politicians that they vote in as replacements.

However I highly doubt that it would be the old elite, who cannot even put on a mildly convincing show of governing for ordinary people. Who here really believes that they launched the coup out of benevolence for the Thai people, as opposed to a desire to shore up their own hegemony?

at some point corruption justifies a military coup. For example when corruption destroys democracy. If the people are poor and the press, police, courts and voter can be bought by the corruption money it is so bad that the military must protect the country.

Have a look at the democracy in North Korea. It is a democracy with elections. Would you justify a coup there?

yes a military coup to install ummm um a corrupt military Government. One of the most ridiculous comments ever posted on TVF and that is saying something. I just simply cannot believe you are saying the military is protecting the country, have you ever been to Thailand? Its simply impossible you have.

[ThailandNoob]

He's 100% right. But of course the Thaksin acolytes always use the 'but, but the Dems, Abhisit, all previous regimes, etc, etc'

Most of the coups that happened during my long relationship with Thailand were because of corruption.

Another line of thought says that it won't be eradicated until poverty is also eradicated. This is false as the worst participants & beneficiaries are rich with the current political class leading the way. The sort of corruption supported by ordinary Thais in polls is petty corruption with any dealing with the BIB (for example) usually involving a bribe. Yes, it also helps speed up paperwork in the bureaucracy.

Yet another line of thought is that' it happens everywhere'. Yes it does but that's not an excuse to do nothing.

I feel it will take time for the Thai population to realise that those they vote for (even when paid) are there to benefit themselves & not the ordinary people. It may well take a crash of the economy, which is what the PTP are headed for with their mismanagement by over-the-top populism without proper checks & balances.

Are you saying that corruption in a government justifies a military coup? As if the Thai army is some paragon of incorruptibility. All a coup does is increase the prospects for corruption, since a dictators do not need to worry about getting voted out of office no matter what they get exposed doing.

Yes I too can find fault with a lot of the policies of the Shinawatras. Maybe their policies will cause a crash of the economy, which could well turn the population against them. But even though there would be some short-term economic pain, in the long run such an outcome is infinitely preferable to having the government removed by yet another coup. The electorate will learn from their mistake, and demand more from the next set of politicians that they vote in as replacements.

However I highly doubt that it would be the old elite, who cannot even put on a mildly convincing show of governing for ordinary people. Who here really believes that they launched the coup out of benevolence for the Thai people, as opposed to a desire to shore up their own hegemony?

at some point corruption justifies a military coup. For example when corruption destroys democracy. If the people are poor and the press, police, courts and voter can be bought by the corruption money it is so bad that the military must protect the country.

Have a look at the democracy in North Korea. It is a democracy with elections. Would you justify a coup there?

I think launching a military coup to install an unelected government in place of an elected one is a classic case of "destroying democracy". Do we need to destroy democracy in order to save it?

I don't think your comparison with North Korea holds up. In all of the elections Thai Rak Thai / Pheua Thai etc. have one, there have been genuine opposition parties that people could vote for without fear of reprisal. And I don't think a military coup would bring anything to North Korea except more of the same.

[ThailandNoob]

He's 100% right. But of course the Thaksin acolytes always use the 'but, but the Dems, Abhisit, all previous regimes, etc, etc'

Most of the coups that happened during my long relationship with Thailand were because of corruption.

Another line of thought says that it won't be eradicated until poverty is also eradicated. This is false as the worst participants & beneficiaries are rich with the current political class leading the way. The sort of corruption supported by ordinary Thais in polls is petty corruption with any dealing with the BIB (for example) usually involving a bribe. Yes, it also helps speed up paperwork in the bureaucracy.

Yet another line of thought is that' it happens everywhere'. Yes it does but that's not an excuse to do nothing.

I feel it will take time for the Thai population to realise that those they vote for (even when paid) are there to benefit themselves & not the ordinary people. It may well take a crash of the economy, which is what the PTP are headed for with their mismanagement by over-the-top populism without proper checks & balances.

Are you saying that corruption in a government justifies a military coup? As if the Thai army is some paragon of incorruptibility. All a coup does is increase the prospects for corruption, since a dictators do not need to worry about getting voted out of office no matter what they get exposed doing.

Yes I too can find fault with a lot of the policies of the Shinawatras. Maybe their policies will cause a crash of the economy, which could well turn the population against them. But even though there would be some short-term economic pain, in the long run such an outcome is infinitely preferable to having the government removed by yet another coup. The electorate will learn from their mistake, and demand more from the next set of politicians that they vote in as replacements.

However I highly doubt that it would be the old elite, who cannot even put on a mildly convincing show of governing for ordinary people. Who here really believes that they launched the coup out of benevolence for the Thai people, as opposed to a desire to shore up their own hegemony?

Yes, sometimes it does justify a coup especially when there is no other option available. The last coup was bloodless, the previous one not so. The last coup actually installed a government, not perfect but certainly better than the previous one.

IMO, the government installed by the coup weren't given enough time to clean up Thai politics & the worst agency which was & still is the police. I'm not saying that the military are anyway near perfect but they are certainly third behind Thaksin's regimes & the police in corruption.

You seem to have swallowed the PTP/red shirt propaganda about elites here. The biggest & most powerful elite is the billionaire business cartel whose main thrust is to maintain near (& sometimes actual) monopolies not in any way beneficial to ordinary Thais. It has been some considerable time since any old elite has governed here.

Lastly, vote buying has been endemic here for quite a while - except in the 2007 constitutional referendum where it was forcefully stopped. The mantra - so often heard on TV - that the elected government won the most votes, therefore it should be allowed to govern without any checks & balances. has become a laughing stock to those who think for themselves.

No other option available? What about simply pushing to weaken Thailand's defamation laws so that the press can feel confident enough to inform the public about those that engage in corruption? An informed public can then simply then vote out a corrupt government at the next election without a need for a military coup. And besides which, I didn't see the military changing the defamation laws during their time in power.

Where is your evidence that a prime motivation of the coup was to reduce police corruption? As I recall, while the coup makers definitely claimed that they were justified by rampant corruption, they were focusing on Thaksin's business dealings.

Thailand is a fairly stratified society, how can you say there are no elites in the country? While I would not hesitate to label Thaksin and his associates as an elite, I also see another older, rival elite that they are in conflict with (which was behind the 2006 coup). A key figure in this second elite group is Prem.

[smutcakes]

If things don't change , they will remain the same, business as usual General.

Prem was an unelected PM (call it dictator) for many years. He did nothing about the status quo. His own appointed and supported judges were caught red handed on youtube. The General did not spoke out. Why would he. He is using himself blackmail to get the court results the elite desires. By the way it is easier for a dictator like Prem was to change things than for an elected government.

This is not quite correct. Prem was PM for 8 years in the 80s when the constitution didn't require the PM or other ministers to be MPs. Elections took place and the party with the most seats invited Prem to be PM which he accepted until after the 1988 elections when he declined the offer, saying it was time for an elected PM. Prem's style as PM was to appoint technocrats to the key economic ministries and let the politicians squabble over the minor ministries. The NESDB was given responsibility for economic planning. The result was that Thailand had good quality ministers in the key economic portfolios with steady and consistent economic policies and corruption was kept somewhat under control, although flourished more in the smaller ministries controlled by politicians. Rather than didactorship, this structure pacified the generals and prevented further military coups because Prem had the support of most of the army. Two years after he stepped down, there was another coup.

This was not a perfect system and not a pure democracy but it brought peace, stability and economic progress in the 80s, following Thailand's very troubled 70s. Prem also solved the communist insurgency and brought the students back from the jungles by giving a general amnesty. In addition he established the South Border Command which brought relative peace and stability to the Deep South that was eventually shattered when Thailand's champion of democracy, Thaksin Shinawatra, broke up the Southern Border Command and placed police thugs in charge instead, thereby setting the South ablaze.

Prem may not fit the bill as a modern day champion of democracy and he is a conservative, military figure but he was the right man for the times and helped lay the foundations for Thailand's economic boom in the late 80s. Knock him, if you like, but please provide some more detailed arguments.

Good post. Pity he did not use his time in charge to eliminate corruption and improve education. His talk sounds cheap coming 30 years later- i am sure if he tried to do anything about the corruption he would have been dispatched sharpish. He of all people should know that stopping corruption is easier said than done.

If he had improved education, maybe the power vacuum that TS stepped into on the back of promises of affluence would have been smaller.

[thaicbr]

If things don't change , they will remain the same, business as usual General.

Prem was an unelected PM (call it dictator) for many years. He did nothing about the status quo. His own appointed and supported judges were caught red handed on youtube. The General did not spoke out. Why would he. He is using himself blackmail to get the court results the elite desires. By the way it is easier for a dictator like Prem was to change things than for an elected government.

This is not quite correct. Prem was PM for 8 years in the 80s when the constitution didn't require the PM or other ministers to be MPs. Elections took place and the party with the most seats invited Prem to be PM which he accepted until after the 1988 elections when he declined the offer, saying it was time for an elected PM. Prem's style as PM was to appoint technocrats to the key economic ministries and let the politicians squabble over the minor ministries. The NESDB was given responsibility for economic planning. The result was that Thailand had good quality ministers in the key economic portfolios with steady and consistent economic policies and corruption was kept somewhat under control, although flourished more in the smaller ministries controlled by politicians. Rather than didactorship, this structure pacified the generals and prevented further military coups because Prem had the support of most of the army. Two years after he stepped down, there was another coup.

This was not a perfect system and not a pure democracy but it brought peace, stability and economic progress in the 80s, following Thailand's very troubled 70s. Prem also solved the communist insurgency and brought the students back from the jungles by giving a general amnesty. In addition he established the South Border Command which brought relative peace and stability to the Deep South that was eventually shattered when Thailand's champion of democracy, Thaksin Shinawatra, broke up the Southern Border Command and placed police thugs in charge instead, thereby setting the South ablaze.

Prem may not fit the bill as a modern day champion of democracy and he is a conservative, military figure but he was the right man for the times and helped lay the foundations for Thailand's economic boom in the late 80s. Knock him, if you like, but please provide some more detailed arguments.

Good post. Pity he did not use his time in charge to eliminate corruption and improve education. His talk sounds cheap coming 30 years later- i am sure if he tried to do anything about the corruption he would have been dispatched sharpish. He of all people should know that stopping corruption is easier said than done.

If he had improved education, maybe the power vacuum that TS stepped into on the back of promises of affluence would have been smaller.

But then party/government out of all governments since Prem's has actually improved education and students accessibility to education at a level high enough to get the simplest job.... give you a guess it begins with D!

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Edited April 5, 2013 by thaicbr

[heybruce]

Yes, sometimes it does justify a coup especially when there is no other option available. The last coup was bloodless, the previous one not so. The last coup actually installed a government, not perfect but certainly better than the previous one.

IMO, the government installed by the coup weren't given enough time to clean up Thai politics & the worst agency which was & still is the police. I'm not saying that the military are anyway near perfect but they are certainly third behind Thaksin's regimes & the police in corruption.

You seem to have swallowed the PTP/red shirt propaganda about elites here. The biggest & most powerful elite is the billionaire business cartel whose main thrust is to maintain near (& sometimes actual) monopolies not in any way beneficial to ordinary Thais. It has been some considerable time since any old elite has governed here.

Lastly, vote buying has been endemic here for quite a while - except in the 2007 constitutional referendum where it was forcefully stopped. The mantra - so often heard on TV - that the elected government won the most votes, therefore it should be allowed to govern without any checks & balances. has become a laughing stock to those who think for themselves.

So the military should have stayed in charge and set everything right? You mean like in Myanmar/Burma?

Ahh, the 2007 constitutional referendum, a straight up or down vote, no public discussion allowed, and the military made it clear that if their constitution was voted down they would impose a constitution of their choice on the country. Now that was a free and fair election.

A military coup is the nuclear option, and I don't think Thaksin's government, as bad as it was, warranted the nuclear option.

[EyesWideOpen]

I have to say that I agree with this, since what is so often forgotten is that "Corruption" is a short form of saying No rule of Law, which in Thailand is true both at the macro level [politically motivated fashionable cases notwithstanding but no real ability to hold to account] and at the micro level 100thb to ride without a motorcycle helmet.

If no one sees the law as a real operational framework for the society, then the society itself and that very underpinning which is required for a modern integrated community to function may well be lost.

+1

Ayn Rand - as per my signature below.

Just saw your sig line. What a timely piece of insight for Thailand.

[Thereisnoif]

A moral lesson from an ex Thai Army general ?

[fresnoboy]

@asiasurfer Post #7

It hasn't worked in First World nations; why do you think that it will work here ?

[Thai at Heart]

He's 100% right. But of course the Thaksin acolytes always use the 'but, but the Dems, Abhisit, all previous regimes, etc, etc'

Most of the coups that happened during my long relationship with Thailand were because of corruption.

Another line of thought says that it won't be eradicated until poverty is also eradicated. This is false as the worst participants & beneficiaries are rich with the current political class leading the way. The sort of corruption supported by ordinary Thais in polls is petty corruption with any dealing with the BIB (for example) usually involving a bribe. Yes, it also helps speed up paperwork in the bureaucracy.

Yet another line of thought is that' it happens everywhere'. Yes it does but that's not an excuse to do nothing.

I feel it will take time for the Thai population to realise that those they vote for (even when paid) are there to benefit themselves & not the ordinary people. It may well take a crash of the economy, which is what the PTP are headed for with their mismanagement by over-the-top populism without proper checks & balances.

Are you saying that corruption in a government justifies a military coup? As if the Thai army is some paragon of incorruptibility. All a coup does is increase the prospects for corruption, since a dictators do not need to worry about getting voted out of office no matter what they get exposed doing.

Yes I too can find fault with a lot of the policies of the Shinawatras. Maybe their policies will cause a crash of the economy, which could well turn the population against them. But even though there would be some short-term economic pain, in the long run such an outcome is infinitely preferable to having the government removed by yet another coup. The electorate will learn from their mistake, and demand more from the next set of politicians that they vote in as replacements.

However I highly doubt that it would be the old elite, who cannot even put on a mildly convincing show of governing for ordinary people. Who here really believes that they launched the coup out of benevolence for the Thai people, as opposed to a desire to shore up their own hegemony?

Once you reconcile yourself to the fact they are all at it, all the time it makes much better sense.