Residence Certificate - Cm Immigration Will Not Issue

[OneZero]

You're correct about that. The "happy smile" was for farangs happily
not complaining about what many percieve as a senseless policy
requirement (report every 90 days, residency certificate for a drivers
license or purchase transport); for farangs happily not complaining
about the tedious & time consuming administrative implementaion of
such policies; and for farangs happily paying for something that is
supposed to be free. Yes, if the farangs are not happy about the
situation, and register complaints, well then, Immigration can teach
them a lesson and simply refuse to provide the service (even though the
certificate of residence is still required by other Thai gov't agencies).

Or, as Chief CM Immigration has appealed, we can all contribute to a 3rd party organization, who in turn
will make a land contribution to CM immigration and perhaps our tedium
may ultimately someday be improved. Ya, tell me again that I am not
being asked to make a contribution, in an effort to ease the tedium of
continuing a policy requirement that appears to many farangs to be
senseless / not necessary in the first place.

Edit: Talk about adding insult to injury.

Hmm, talk about throwing the toys out of the pram, if we can't have the money for them then we're not going to issue them, that'll teach 'em a lesson!

Gone is the Col's 'happy smile project'.

[hml367]

You do not have to make a contribution. You are not being asked to make a contribution.

[OneZero]

You do not have to make a contribution. You are not being asked to make a contribution.

hml367, you really got rubbed the wrong way didn't you. Why don't you just send me another pm so that readers can focus on the primary things I have tried to point out above. You & I squabling over an interpretation of donation / contribution to a third party detract from the focus on the terrible way Thai Immigration is administering their policy requirements But anyway, following is what you copied from the city life piece (my interpretation of his appeal for a donation to a third party is the same thing as a contribution by us to ease the tedium of administering a policy that seems unnecesary)..

Quote:

" I have been in talks with McKean Rehabilitation Centre; they have vast tracts of royally-bestowed land and they rely on the largess of donors for survival. Maybe if they can give us some of their land, we can build an office, put a large ‘Thank You McKean’ sign up, and some of the many people who use our services may want to donate and help them out in return."

[hml367]

No PM because the readers should have what was said in the interview to make their own judgement as to whether they were being asked to fund Immigration as you stated. Is that the interview you were referring to?

I didn't get rubbed the wrong way - I disagreed with your statement that foreigners are being asked to fund Immigration. In the end, foreigners certainly would contribute to funding through fees, etc.

Since the thread has something to do with paying for something that Immigration used to provide, I think funding, donating, or paying fees does have something to do with the thread.

As I said, a PM from me would not give my different opinion than your own so the readers could focus on things you pointed out.

MSPain

[Foxhound]

What can we do for those where there is no consulate in CM, only an Embassy in Bangkok? The Residence Certificate will cost more that its costs plus return air ticket, and one night hotel stay if the certificate cannot be issued the same day!

I have never heard of an embassy in Thailand that requires you to show up in person for a residence certificate. What embassy is this?

Really? You mean we can write an email to or call the Embassy to request for a Residence Certificate and they will send to our resident, at a cost of course? I have never request a Residence Certificate from the Embassy before, and I thought we need to apply in person the way we do it in CM Immigration.

[OneZero]

OK, to end this distraction I will say that originally (in post #10), I did erroneously say "contributions to his office", which was not what Chief CM Immigration said. What he did appeal for (from Immigration users) were donations to a 3rd party instead. That third part would make the land donation to CM Immigration. I think I made that quite clear in later posts. But my point concerning the "donation" aspect of this thread, is that it is still rather cheeky to appeal to us for donations (to anybody, 3rd part or whoever) because CM Immigration's can not efficiently administer HQ policies.

Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai Immigration HQ should either properly resource efficient administration of their policies, or adjust the policies to a level they can efficiently administer? Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai govt agencies (such as drivers licenses or vehicle registration offices) should have thought through the ability of foreigners to cost effectively obtain a residence certificate? Obviously they know that there is not a consulate of every country in every city in Thailand. I hope that all who read this thread can recognize & focus upon the inefficient administration of immigration policies. Perhaps word can ultimately get to the right people that policies need to be adjusted if they can not be efficiently administered.

[Joop50]

Went yesterday to immigration for residence letter. Was told the same thing, no longer issuing, not worth the time.

so do i understand this correctly or is the heat/smog just making me stupid?

Only way to get a residence certificate is at your country consulate?

No, according to the letter outside immigration you can obtain it at the police station, also tourist police station. I took a photo from it but publishing on TV seems to be a trick?

[mania]

so if the CM immigration office not doing this service, who knows what the US consulate is charging and does the process involve obtaining an appointment time as americans must do for fin verification, passport pages, etc?

Thanks...

I have bought 3 of them from the CM US Consulate

Appointments can be made online usually for the next day or very soon after.

All you need is your passport & takes about 5 minutes tops.

You fill in the form swear that you live at the address you wrote & your done

$50 USD via cash or charge card or 1600 Baht

[hml367]

OK, to end this distraction I will say that originally (in post #10), I did erroneously say "contributions to his office", which was not what Chief CM Immigration said. What he did appeal for (from Immigration users) were donations to a 3rd party instead. That third part would make the land donation to CM Immigration. I think I made that quite clear in later posts. But my point concerning the "donation" aspect of this thread, is that it is still rather cheeky to appeal to us for donations (to anybody, 3rd part or whoever) because CM Immigration's can not efficiently administer HQ policies.

Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai Immigration HQ should either properly resource efficient administration of their policies, or adjust the policies to a level they can efficiently administer? Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai govt agencies (such as drivers licenses or vehicle registration offices) should have thought through the ability of foreigners to cost effectively obtain a residence certificate? Obviously they know that there is not a consulate of every country in every city in Thailand. I hope that all who read this thread can recognize & focus upon the inefficient administration of immigration policies. Perhaps word can ultimately get to the right people that policies need to be adjusted if they can not be efficiently administered.

I agree getting information to Immigration is a better idea. Posting complaints on ThaiVisa does not guarantee anyone from Immigration will read them. There is a link on the Chiang Mai Immigration web site for "Complaints-Trouble". Whether it would get the information to the right place I do not know. I do think it would have a better chance than hoping someone from Immigration would read ThaiVisa.

Of course people will post complaints on ThaiVisa. Some will post praise. The point is posting it on ThaiVisa does not get it to where it needs to go.

Regarding resourcing from Thai Immigration HQ I do agree it would be reasonable to think that is where resources should come from. I believe the person in the interview in question stated that. He also stated that he was trying to get something started because HQ was not responding or not responding fast enough. That was my point. His comment about donations to McKean sounds to me like he was trying to help them.

So that people can focus on the points you and others have made, the interview is at http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3724

If readers look at the interview they can form their own opinion. Opinions are welcome on ThaiVisa I have read.

MSPain

[OneZero]

It's obvious by now that many of us feel that the Thai Immigration bureaucracy has not adequately reviewed (or explained to us) the following:

- The purpose / need for some of their policies;

- The adequacy of their required procedures to satisfy that supposed purpose / need;

- The burden the required procedures place upon foreigners;

- Their ability to efficiently administer their procedures; and

- The impact upon all concerned (ie, not only foreigners, but coordination with other Thai gov't agencies) of such inefficient administration or uncoordinated procedural changes.

Now lets hope that enough visibility is made of these perceived inadequacies such that Thai Immigration feels the pressure to eventually makes improvements. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking? So, lets keep getting the word out of our perception of the situation.

But lets also turn to a discussion of the alternatives that foreigners from different countries now have in obtaining the still required residence certificates for driving licenses and vehicle registrations.

The solution for those with a consulate in Chiang Mai has already been discussed. For example, US Consulate: make an appointment, simply swear, no proof needed, that you live at a certain location, & pay 50 USD per certificate. What about countries without a consulate in Chiang Mai? One comment was made about calling a Bkk embassy on the phone requesting that embassy to send a certificate in the mail. What else have some of you contemplated doing to obtain the residence certificate?

[chiang mai]

It's obvious by now that many of us feel that the Thai Immigration bureaucracy has not adequately reviewed (or explained to us) the following:

- The purpose / need for some of their policies;

- The adequacy of their required procedures to satisfy that supposed purpose / need;

- The burden the required procedures place upon foreigners;

- Their ability to efficiently administer their procedures; and

- The impact upon all concerned (ie, not only foreigners, but coordination with other Thai gov't agencies) of such inefficient administration or uncoordinated procedural changes.

Now lets hope that enough visibility is made of these perceived inadequacies such that Thai Immigration feels the pressure to eventually makes improvements. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking? So, lets keep getting the word out of our perception of the situation.

But lets also turn to a discussion of the alternatives that foreigners from different countries now have in obtaining the still required residence certificates for driving licenses and vehicle registrations.

The solution for those with a consulate in Chiang Mai has already been discussed. For example, US Consulate: make an appointment, simply swear, no proof needed, that you live at a certain location, & pay 50 USD per certificate. What about countries without a consulate in Chiang Mai? One comment was made about calling a Bkk embassy on the phone requesting that embassy to send a certificate in the mail. What else have some of you contemplated doing to obtain the residence certificate?

And their need to do these things is why?

[CMX]

Way back in entry # 27, Harry made clear that 500 baht motivated a very busy office to take on a job that was supposedly their function. Once the reimbursement was challenged from above, the office kicked the ball. As is sometimes the case here, it will take a while to settle and meanwhile we find our solutions. Those of us who rent houses need these docs in order to buy vehicles, for one thing, and I, for one, accepted the fee as being just how things worked here. Largely because of my evolutions with two-wheelers, I've purchased 8 vehicles in 3.5 years,

Imagine then if I'd paid $50 US for such a document, somehwat higher than 500 baht, ahem. What is of interest is if it is useful for a year's time, or only one month as was the case with Immigration's Residency Letter??? If not, what I've got is what I ride.

Another in-house problem (Thai Imm.) is figuring how one district's Immigration Office is adequately staffed for its population and another is not. But we'll never have a say in that either. Overall, this is one of those things that make Thai Visa useful. Also, it adds to the mystery of the orient.

[mania]

What is of interest is if it is useful for a year's time, or only one month as was the case with Immigration's Residency Letter???

That is a side benefit of the Consulates Cert of Res

It does not have a use by date ( or 1 year? ) the one from Immigration is valid for 1 month.

This is something Kawasaki told me when I bought a new bike that had not arrived yet.

They cautioned me that if I got the Immigration one it may not be valid when bike arrived.

So if I wanted to get my papers together either do the Consulate or wait till the bike arrived to be safe

if using Immigrations version.

But that is not my reason for paying at the Consulate. I just don't like the scene at immigration

Same reason I pay a service to do my 90 day reports ( 1000 THB per year )

But I agree with what you said. If it is a financial burden because someone does so many then best

to seek other options.

Personally I intend to do the yellow book in the near future.

PS: I like that...

"Also, it adds to the mystery of the orient."

Very tactful

[Thailand]

OK, to end this distraction I will say that originally (in post #10), I did erroneously say "contributions to his office", which was not what Chief CM Immigration said. What he did appeal for (from Immigration users) were donations to a 3rd party instead. That third part would make the land donation to CM Immigration. I think I made that quite clear in later posts. But my point concerning the "donation" aspect of this thread, is that it is still rather cheeky to appeal to us for donations (to anybody, 3rd part or whoever) because CM Immigration's can not efficiently administer HQ policies.

Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai Immigration HQ should either properly resource efficient administration of their policies, or adjust the policies to a level they can efficiently administer? Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai govt agencies (such as drivers licenses or vehicle registration offices) should have thought through the ability of foreigners to cost effectively obtain a residence certificate? Obviously they know that there is not a consulate of every country in every city in Thailand. I hope that all who read this thread can recognize & focus upon the inefficient administration of immigration policies. Perhaps word can ultimately get to the right people that policies need to be adjusted if they can not be efficiently administered.

I agree getting information to Immigration is a better idea. Posting complaints on ThaiVisa does not guarantee anyone from Immigration will read them. There is a link on the Chiang Mai Immigration web site for "Complaints-Trouble". Whether it would get the information to the right place I do not know. I do think it would have a better chance than hoping someone from Immigration would read ThaiVisa.

>

OK, to end this distraction I will say that originally (in post #10), I did erroneously say "contributions to his office", which was not what Chief CM Immigration said. What he did appeal for (from Immigration users) were donations to a 3rd party instead. That third part would make the land donation to CM Immigration. I think I made that quite clear in later posts. But my point concerning the "donation" aspect of this thread, is that it is still rather cheeky to appeal to us for donations (to anybody, 3rd part or whoever) because CM Immigration's can not efficiently administer HQ policies.

Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai Immigration HQ should either properly resource efficient administration of their policies, or adjust the policies to a level they can efficiently administer? Is it not reasonable to expect that Thai govt agencies (such as drivers licenses or vehicle registration offices) should have thought through the ability of foreigners to cost effectively obtain a residence certificate? Obviously they know that there is not a consulate of every country in every city in Thailand. I hope that all who read this thread can recognize & focus upon the inefficient administration of immigration policies. Perhaps word can ultimately get to the right people that policies need to be adjusted if they can not be efficiently administered.

I agree getting information to Immigration is a better idea. Posting complaints on ThaiVisa does not guarantee anyone from Immigration will read them. There is a link on the Chiang Mai Immigration web site for "Complaints-Trouble". Whether it would get the information to the right place I do not know. I do think it would have a better chance than hoping someone from Immigration would read ThaiVisa.

Of course people will post complaints on ThaiVisa. Some will post praise. The point is posting it on ThaiVisa does not get it to where it needs to go.

Regarding resourcing from Thai Immigration HQ I do agree it would be reasonable to think that is where resources should come from. I believe the person in the interview in question stated that. He also stated that he was trying to get something started because HQ was not responding or not responding fast enough. That was my point. His comment about donations to McKean sounds to me like he was trying to help them.

So that people can focus on the points you and others have made, the interview is at http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3724

If readers look at the interview they can form their own opinion. Opinions are welcome on ThaiVisa I have read.

MSPain

Regarding resourcing from Thai Immigration HQ I do agree it would be reasonable to think that is where resources should come from. I believe the person in the interview in question stated that. He also stated that he was trying to get something started because HQ was not responding or not responding fast enough. That was my point. His comment about donations to McKean sounds to me like he was trying to help them.

So that people can focus on the points you and others have made, the interview is at http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=3724

If readers look at the interview they can form their own opinion. Opinions are welcome on ThaiVisa I have read.

MSPain

Why not simply post the link to this thread and other immigration problems threads to the immigration website "Complaints-Trouble" ?

[OneZero]

Ref the Consulate's certificate and questions concerning it's applicable expiration time frame:

No matter how long it is good prior to it's use, I would bet that it can be used only once, ie, not several times.

"Yellow Book":

Excuse my ignorance for not being up to speed on the "Yellow Book". Can someone explain to me (& other readers not aware) further aspects of this "Yellow Book".

Who can apply, How does one apply (documents required etc), Where does one apply, What benefits ensue, etc?

[Thailand]

Ref the Consulate's certificate and questions concerning it's applicable expiration time frame:

No matter how long it is good prior to it's use, I would bet that it can be used only once, ie, not several times.

"Yellow Book":

Excuse my ignorance for not being up to speed on the "Yellow Book". Can someone explain to me (& other readers not aware) further aspects of this "Yellow Book".

Who can apply, How does one apply (documents required etc), Where does one apply, What benefits ensue, etc?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/156485-yellow-tabien-bahn/

[mania]

Ref the Consulate's certificate and questions concerning it's applicable expiration time frame:

No matter how long it is good prior to it's use, I would bet that it can be used only once, ie, not several times.

"Yellow Book":

Excuse my ignorance for not being up to speed on the "Yellow Book". Can someone explain to me (& other readers not aware) further aspects of this "Yellow Book".

Who can apply, How does one apply (documents required etc), Where does one apply, What benefits ensue, etc?

Yes it may be used only once since it is kept by the person/reason you give it to.

Whether that be DMV or licensing etc.

Although sometimes a single one can be used for two things such as getting a motorcycle & drivers license if getting both at the same time.

They will accept the one original & make a copy for their records to attach to your motorcycle license app.

As for Yellow Book forum member:Thailand, posted a good link to explain

[MESmith]

Ref the Consulate's certificate and questions concerning it's applicable expiration time frame:

No matter how long it is good prior to it's use, I would bet that it can be used only once, ie, not several times.

"Yellow Book":

Excuse my ignorance for not being up to speed on the "Yellow Book". Can someone explain to me (& other readers not aware) further aspects of this "Yellow Book".

Who can apply, How does one apply (documents required etc), Where does one apply, What benefits ensue, etc?

Yes it may be used only once since it is kept by the person/reason you give it to.

Whether that be DMV or licensing etc.

Although sometimes a single one can be used for two things such as getting a motorcycle & drivers license if getting both at the same time.

They will accept the one original & make a copy for their records to attach to your motorcycle license app.

As for Yellow Book forum member:Thailand, posted a good link to explain

Last time I got the residence letter from UK consul, they provided me with 2 originals for the "not bargain" price of one.. The Transport office on the Hung Dong road was happy to take a photo copy, leaving me with the originals. Not that I needed them again.

[OneZero]

The following was posted by “Geenside” way back in 2008. I didn’t realize that in certain provinces this problem existed for a long time already. Quote: “I've been going through the dispiriting process of applying for a Yellow Book initially because our local immigration office quit issuing the Certificate of Residence neccessary for registering a car or getting a driving license and the UK Consulate charges an outrageous 2000 baht plus for the same (unproven) bit of paper. I don't know how (or if it's possible) to post to two forums but contibutors to this thread might like to follow my current adventures in this northern outpost of Thailands bureaucratic Purgatory. Here's the link: Fear & Loathing on the Yellow Book Trail”

My comment:

The easiest way for foreigners to obtain use of certain property in Thailand is to title it in a Thai’s name. That avoids the hassles of residence certificates (vehicles) and letters from a bank proving offshore transfer of funds for a specific defined purchase (land, houses, condos). Being cynical again, but perhaps that is one of the core reasons for making foreign titling of such things difficult – to encourage putting in a Thai’s name.

Reference the suggestion to post our complaints to CM Immigration website – that is a good first step. However, it is probably insufficient to obtain change through our individual complaints alone. The Thai Immigration bureaucracy is already aware of the problems and apparently feels that the solution is to reduce services rather than improve them.

Perhaps, in the interest of the welfare of its foreign employees and ex-patriot citizens (especially those not living close to a consulate or embassy) the foreign business and diplomatic community will sympathize with the situation. It would perhaps be helpful if they politely nudged the Thai bureaucrats to re-examine the purpose / necessity of some policies and the adequacy / efficiency of some procedures in implementing those policies. But this is probably just wishful thinking too ( In which case we just have to get used to it).

[CBR250]

Is it correct that Australians must attend consulate in person in Bangkok to get a letter of residence? Can't the "honorary consul" in Chiang Mai do it, or do it via email/mail

[mania]

Has anyone tried the cop shop yet?

I have read that you can take your form to a police station & they will stamp/sign it

This is supposedly acceptable.

Might be worth a try although I do not know what form of proof if any they require.

[uptheos]

Has anyone tried the cop shop yet?

I have read that you can take your form to a police station & they will stamp/sign it

This is supposedly acceptable.

Might be worth a try although I do not know what form of proof if any they require.

Maybe just mentioning "I usually pay 500 Baht" might be enough proof for them.

[mania]

Has anyone tried the cop shop yet?

I have read that you can take your form to a police station & they will stamp/sign it

This is supposedly acceptable.

Might be worth a try although I do not know what form of proof if any they require.

Maybe just mentioning "I usually pay 500 Baht" might be enough proof for them.

Or think like them & say you usually pay 250?

[uptheos]

Has anyone tried the cop shop yet?

I have read that you can take your form to a police station & they will stamp/sign it

This is supposedly acceptable.

Might be worth a try although I do not know what form of proof if any they require.

Maybe just mentioning "I usually pay 500 Baht" might be enough proof for them.

Or think like them & say you usually pay 250?

Good point.

[OneZero]

Quote from post#10: "It would be cynical in any other country except Thailand (We all know the level of corruption here) to offer the following possibility but here goes. There may have been a bit of trouble over the 500 Baht underhanders CM Immigration was previously demanding (Since apparently official Bkk policy is that the document should be free). Could it be that CM Immigration just independently decided to refuse to carry out the duty (without the 500 Baht underhanders), thereby forcing Mr Rich Farang to pay a higher fee to his consulate or embassy for a residence certificate. Ultimately Mr Rich Farang might demand CM Immigration to once again perform their mission, and be very happy indeed to provide the 500 Baht underhander. Cynical thoughts? Not really for Thailand.

CM Immigration may have succeeded, if the above was their intention. Notice on this thread now how we are no longer complaining about paying 500 THB for a service that was supposed to be free. Ya, now were trying to figure out ways to get the police to accept 250 or 500 THB (for a residence certificate that in no way proves that you really live where you told them you live).

[mania]

Ya, now were trying to figure out ways to get the police to accept 250 or 500 THB (for a residence certificate that in no way proves that you really live where you told them you live).

Not to detract from your post but to be clear

I was joking about the 250 to the cops.

I happily pay $50 for mine 3x at the US Consulate.

Will continue to do so even if offered free at Immigration

Unless of course at some point in the future immigration

becomes a civilized place to go.

[OneZero]

Ya, now were trying to figure out ways to get the police to accept 250 or 500 THB (for a residence certificate that in no way proves that you really live where you told them you live).

Not to detract from your post but to be clear, I was joking about the 250 to the cops.

I happily pay $50 for mine 3x at the US Consulate.

Will continue to do so even if offered free at Immigration, Unless of course at some point in the future immigration

becomes a civilized place to go.

Mania, I agree with you 100%. I will be registering two recently purchased mc somewhere in Thailand in future & if necessary I will get resident certifications at US consulate. It's the folks who have to travel from afar to get to a consulate or embassy thet will be hurt the most.

As you say Immigration is not an inviting place to go for whatever (90 day reports, etc). Plus, importantly, getting a resident certificate at consulate in no way really satisfies what the Thai bureaucracy says is the need for the certificate in the first place (to prove where you live). I could raise my hand & swear I live on the moon and the consulate just might notarize it (joking). I better not joke about this or Immigration may just refuse to accept the consulate notarization. A main point: The need for some of their policies & or procedures just seems like unnecessary red tape.

[hellodolly]

bloody tiger

I think I read here on TV that the residence certificate is now FREE at immigration, maybe that is why they don't want to issue them anymore?

Did the consulate charge you for it?

If money was the criteria for what they do why the free 90day reports?

[hellodolly]

There was a thread awhile back (started by CMNightrider I think) that referred to a "City Life" interview of the Chief CM Immigration. The Chief respectfully apologized for the sorry state of affairs, and correctly (I believe) referenced the refusal of Bkk Immigration HQ to properly resource the CM office. The Chief ended his interview with a a public "City Life" appeal to the users of CM Immigration for contributions to his office for new &/or expanded facilities. Yes, you & I Mr Rich Farang were being asked to fund the tedious and non-sensical requirements they place upon us. Now, is that cheeky or isn't it? BTW, rumor while the new Jomtien Immigration facilities were being built a few years back was that the facilities were funded by "View Talay" condominium developers / executives. (I Can't confirm that rumor).

Well now, it would be cynical in any other country except Thailand (We all know the level of corruption here) to offer the following possibility but here goes. There may have been a bit of trouble over the 500 Baht underhanders CM Immigration was previously demanding (Since apparently official Bkk policy is that the document should be free). Could it be that CM Immigration just independently decided to refuse to carry out the duty (without the 500 Baht underhanders), thereby forcing Mr Rich Farang to pay a higher fee to his consulate or embassy for a residence certificate. Ultimately Mr Rich Farang might demand CM Immigration to once again perform their mission, and be very happy indeed to provide the 500 Baht underhander. Cynical thoughts? Not really for Thailand.

I think you should look at the interview again. It looks to me that he indicated people may want to donate to someone that would donate land to put an Immigration facility on. In other words, he suggests users of Immigration may want to donate to the foundation that donates land for placing an Immigration building since Immigration HQ in Bangkok has not been doing much to find land for this purpose.

My point is you should look at the interview again and see what was suggested. I did not see any suggestion of donating to Immigration itself. Maybe I am looking at the wrong interview? I'm not sure if I can quote from their website and post it here.

MSPain

I do recall that immigration allowed for 14 more staff but they had to come through Bangkok and Bangkok was doing nothing. On the practical side it would be great to have them but where would they work from, Perhaps out in the parking lot.

[true blue]

bloody tiger

I think I read here on TV that the residence certificate is now FREE at immigration, maybe that is why they don't want to issue them anymore?

Did the consulate charge you for it?

If money was the criteria for what they do why the free 90day reports?

doh???