Foreigner In An Accident, At Fault By Default?

[rambling]

Hi all, I've heard stories that when a foreigner is involved in an accident in which a Thai person is injured then that foreigner is considered at fault, just because the foreigner is present in this country, regardless of who actually is to blame in that specific accident situation. One person even went as far as saying this was a court ruling which was appealed and the appeal was rejected.

Are these just stories or is there any truth to it? This is assuming everything else is legal: visa, driving license, insurance etc.

Edited April 15, 2013 by rambling

[saakura]

If it is an accident where there has been no death, i think the person who is perceived to be richer will be found at fault, unless you have connections. I think this is true even if it happens to be a thai. Just like the labour law courts almost always judge in favour of the employee unless it is some high profile case.

[Bangkokhatter]

Utter nonsense, had an accident with 3 teens on a motorbike who crashed into me. Went to the cop shop with my insurance man, cleared of any blame, their insurance paid for my damage.

[rambling]

If it is an accident where there has been no death, i think the person who is perceived to be richer will be found at fault, unless you have connections. I think this is true even if it happens to be a thai. Just like the labour law courts almost always judge in favour of the employee unless it is some high profile case.

How about if there are fatalities?

[Fookhaht]

It's true in many more cases than you'd care to be comfortable with. Personally, I have paid out for an accident caused by someone who rear-ended me. Often, the on-the-spot criteria for innocence or guilt is "who is the richest/most able to pay" the damages.

By "on-the-spot," I mean any of the following:

• a kangaroo court immediately formed by bystanders,
• an incompetent or easily-swayed insurance agent,
• a policeman who wants to settle things quickly (or get a bribe),
• a wayward judge, or...
• any combination of the above.
  
  It happens. Be prepared for it.

[PoorSucker]

How about if there are fatalities?

You'll be OK if you have a Thai driving licence, insurance, did not cause the accident and not under the influence.

[saakura]

If it is an accident where there has been no death, i think the person who is perceived to be richer will be found at fault, unless you have connections. I think this is true even if it happens to be a thai. Just like the labour law courts almost always judge in favour of the employee unless it is some high profile case.

How about if there are fatalities?

Then the investigations are quite fair from the one case i personally know of and also what i hear.

[arthurwait]

Don't stand up for yourself and you can get walked over.

Get decent insurance and they will fight your corner. DOn't and the police aren't interested in helping unless there is something in it for them so they will find the resolution with the least work for them, in other words the person who can speak the less Thai or the richer person, but not rich enough to have contacts.

Get a dash cam if you can. Still to do this myself. Take photos especially if they show the other person was in the wrong place or doing something illegal or dangerous and don't let them walk over you.

[Spoonman]

Had a few accidents here, some my fault some not. at all times I was legal with correct licence/ not under the influence of alcohol/vehicle legally modified and 1st class insurance.

I sat in the car and let the insurance company sort it out, only when I was at fault did they pay.

[jbrain]

It's true in many more cases than you'd care to be comfortable with. Personally, I have paid out for an accident caused by someone who rear-ended me. Often, the on-the-spot criteria for innocence or guilt is "who is the richest/most able to pay" the damages.

By "on-the-spot," I mean any of the following:

• a kangaroo court immediately formed by bystanders,
• an incompetent or easily-swayed insurance agent,
• a policeman who wants to settle things quickly (or get a bribe),
• a wayward judge, or...
• any combination of the above.

  It happens. Be prepared for it.

And all this will be neutralised at the moment your insurance agent arrives. That is if you have an additional insurance other then the government one of course.

[pattayadingo]

As said ^^^ It is utter b*llocks that the foreigner is automatically to blame.

When a m/c turned the wrong way into a one way street and damaged my car, the owner of the m/c was made to pay. The owner was not the rider of the m/c.

This was after lengthy negotiations on my then g/f's part and my finally losing patience and saying I would call the police.

The owner did not want insurance agents there, nor the police.

So, anyone who still states this idea that it is ALL our fault for being here in Thailand is sadly mistaken.

[Honkie]

Utter nonsense, had an accident with 3 teens on a motorbike who crashed into me. Went to the cop shop with my insurance man, cleared of any blame, their insurance paid for my damage.

Teens on a motorbike got insurance ???

[hansnl]

It's true in many more cases than you'd care to be comfortable with. Personally, I have paid out for an accident caused by someone who rear-ended me. Often, the on-the-spot criteria for innocence or guilt is "who is the richest/most able to pay" the damages.

By "on-the-spot," I mean any of the following:

• a kangaroo court immediately formed by bystanders,
• an incompetent or easily-swayed insurance agent,
• a policeman who wants to settle things quickly (or get a bribe),
• a wayward judge, or...
• any combination of the above.

  It happens. Be prepared for it.

And all this will be neutralised at the moment your insurance agent arrives. That is if you have an additional insurance other then the government one of course.

Or.....

Whose insurance agent arrives first and can "talk" to the policeman

[poanoi]

How about if there are fatalities?

You'll be OK if you have a Thai driving licence, insurance, did not cause the accident and not under the influence.

Not necessarily, i had an accident with a woman who without making a signal made a right-turn to the right, and by doing so cut me and we crashed.

She was carrying a baby on her left arm so she was unable to flip on the signal.

As it turned out, she had neither driving license nor insurance,

but who and behold, the police insisted it was my fault, even tho she confessed it was her fault,

so the most the police could bend to was that it was both fault, since she was busy holding a baby while riding.

That was his conclusion.

Edited April 15, 2013 by poanoi

[WarpSpeed]

Again? Boy the topics are redundant these days ....

Edited April 15, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[muratremix]

Just getyourself a car dashcam camera (full HD if possible) and record everything. Just to make sure.

[Bangkokhatter]

Utter nonsense, had an accident with 3 teens on a motorbike who crashed into me. Went to the cop shop with my insurance man, cleared of any blame, their insurance paid for my damage.

Teens on a motorbike got insurance ???

The driver (19) had insurance, whats so hard to believe ?

[richard_smith237]

OP, You were sat on a stool in a bar while an all knowledgable foreigner offered this golden droplet of paranoia?

[richard_smith237]

How about if there are fatalities?

You'll be OK if you have a Thai driving licence, insurance, did not cause the accident and not under the influence.

Not necessarily, i had an accident with a woman who without making a signal made a right-turn to the right, and by doing so cut me and we crashed.

She was carrying a baby on her left arm so she was unable to flip on the signal.

As it turned out, she had neither driving license nor insurance,

but who and behold, the police insisted it was my fault, even tho she confessed it was her fault,

so the most the police could bend to was that it was both fault, since she was busy holding a baby while riding.

That was his conclusion.

You were the path of least resistance for a policeman who felt sorry for a lady and her child...

But, in your case the reality is that the lady on the bike would have had no insurance, taking 50% of the blame is not uncommon in such circumstances.

[bdenner]

Utter nonsense, had an accident with 3 teens on a motorbike who crashed into me. Went to the cop shop with my insurance man, cleared of any blame, their insurance paid for my damage.

Very similar case with me, accept the parents paid me in cash the following morning, didn't need to get the police involved although at one stage I threatened to. Just discussions between the parents, our insurance agent and TW with witnesses.

Edited April 16, 2013 by bdenner

[charlieboz]

Friend of mine in Phuket nearly died when riding a motorbike; a pickup pulled out without looking from a drive way and my mate plowed into the side. It was his fault as he was the farang was my understanding, even though there where about 8 witnesses who said it was the other guy (who was also drunk as hell). Don't think it happens everytime but it does happen a lot.

I saw that one but heard another from another mate; he stopped to help a thai lady who had come off her bike on chalong hill (a fairly common spot in Phuket). When the police came they asked what happened and the older thai lady pointed at him and said the farang did it! ha ha. Last time he stopped to help someone in an accident

[Fookhaht]

Because we can find nearly story-for-story for "farang always at fault" vs. "justice prevails," it would behoove the TV audience to be careful out there...before and after the accident.

[Spoonman]

I think the "Farang always at fault" has a lot to do with the attitude test.

[richard_smith237]

I think the "Farang always at fault" has a lot to do with the attitude test.

Agreed... Act like a frightened puppy and the lazy police will just blame you because it's the easiest thing to do.

But, act like a cock in an aggressive manner and you will be taught a lesson...

The key is to simply know your rights, be polite but firm and stand your ground...

The above holds for both Thai's and foreigners....

[culicine]

How about if there are fatalities?

You'll be OK if you have a Thai driving licence, insurance, did not cause the accident and not under the influence.

Not necessarily, i had an accident with a woman who without making a signal made a right-turn to the right, and by doing so cut me and we crashed.

She was carrying a baby on her left arm so she was unable to flip on the signal.

As it turned out, she had neither driving license nor insurance,

but who and behold, the police insisted it was my fault, even tho she confessed it was her fault,

so the most the police could bend to was that it was both fault, since she was busy holding a baby while riding.

That was his conclusion.

It was your fault because she doesn't have insurance and you do. That's Thai logic. However, I would keep out of any argument until your insurance agent turns up. Let them sort out who is to blame. Often blame will be put on the person able to pay (through insurance), regardless of who is actually at fault.

[stingray]

Have a car rental company. One of our customers got rearended by a Thailady. Acording to the police, he was wrong. If we want go to the court, we had to wait for a courtdate, several week or months. Noone who is a tourist have time for that. So, thats the way they play the game. Yes our insurance paid the damages. But i not like to be fault on something, what is not my customers fault. Noone pay for the car during repairs (missing income) Noone pays for the lost insurance bonus. Foreigners are allways wrong in this country. Someone buys my business? I'm out here the same day!

[MAJIC]

Utter nonsense, had an accident with 3 teens on a motorbike who crashed into me. Went to the cop shop with my insurance man, cleared of any blame, their insurance paid for my damage.

Hmm? wonder if these were the same 3 on a bike that crashed into the back of my 2 month old saloon,they managed to right the bike up straight,drove the bike down the full length of my car(causing multiple deep scratches)and drove off before the lights changed,never to be seen again, my Thai wife bless her, managed to wind the passenger window down, and gave them some choice */&cks to send them on their way,I never knew she could swear like that in english!

Edited April 16, 2013 by MAJIC

[chrisinchaam]

I was surprised by the result of an accident in Phuket recently. I was in the middle of the road signaling to turn into a hotel as I started to turn was hit by a motorcycle trying to overtake. The bike had two young uni students. I called the insurance and waited for agent and police to arrive. Long story short the girl driving the motorcycle got fined 3,000THB for no license and dangerous driving and had to pay 18,000THB to the insurance company. Police said not my fault and at the station gave the girl a real telling off. When we went to the police station she had one of her teachers and several friends to back her up but in this case didn't help seems that in Phuket the police are fed up with students on bikes.

[Rogue33]

I guess it depends.

I had once an accident where a Toyota Vigo rammed into my car (Nissan March) when I was going threw an intersection. Both car were damaged. Insurance companies came to the accident scene and police arrived later on. The police talked to both of us and then requested that we all go to the police station to fill an accident report. The police asked both of us to explain what happened and to do a drawing of the accident. The police listened to me first and then listened to the Thai guy. The police stop him short, said he was wrong and ask him to stop talking. The officer said that I had the priority because of green light and he should have wait before turning right into the intersection. They asked him to pay a fine of 400 bahts (if I remember right) and told him to learn how to drive. I was really surprise with the outcome to be honest and I was surprise how the officer listen to both our version of the accident and based his decision on this.

I had another accident in Bangkok. This time a speeding brand new Honda Accord rammed into my car coming from nowhere. My car was seriously damaged and same with the other car. My insurance company came to the accident scene and the Thai guy didn't have any car insurance. My insurance called the police to come over because of that. A police officer came to the accident scene. My insurance company was talking with the police officer when this girl arrived to the accident scene. She talked with the Thai guy that was implicated in the accident and then made a phone call. She talked for a few minutes before handing her cellphone to the police officer. The police officer talked for a few minutes before hanging up. He then say that everybody need to go to the police station to fill a report. Once arrived at the police station, the police didn't ask us to make a report or anything like that. They just gave a paper to my insurance company and say that it was my fault and that the insurance company should cover the damages to both cars. Pretty weird ??? I tried to ask questions but they just insisted that I sign the paper. I talked with the insurance guy and he told me to sign the paper. Once I got out of the police station, the insurance guy told me that this guy was wrong and didn't have any car insurance (he should have been held responsible of the accident and should pay for the damages) but the problem is that him or someone close to him (probably that girl) had connections with some police officers.

So in Thailand, I guess the outcome in an accident could be different if the other person has connection with the right people. I find this totally crazy. Would it have been any different if I have been injured during the accident ? Would he had just walk away without any consequences ? I'm pretty sure the answer to that is yes. Scary IMO.

[WarpSpeed]

Moral of the story/stories, avoid accidents anywhere, much safer, easier and less likely to cost you an arm and a leg.. Drive defensively..